My God am I glad that that trash, scam format finally seems to have died and been forgotten.
Always felt like an obvious attempt to both be the guy responsible for "the next EDH" while simultaneously using it as a means to inflate the values of certain cards and fill threads with "will be great for Tiny Leaders" comments.
I dunno... what was the attraction for Tiny Leaders?
I perceived the format as some sort of Monopoly Jr version of EDH. Not as a means to raise prices but as a means to create shorter, more compact, games.
I dunno... what was the attraction for Tiny Leaders?
I perceived the format as some sort of Monopoly Jr version of EDH. Not as a means to raise prices but as a means to create shorter, more compact, games.
It became pretty obvious pretty quickly that they were trying to up prices on cards that would otherwise not be so expensive.
Who invented and pushed Tiny Leader as a format? Don't know if someone did it with financial intentions. Looked to me like some knee-jerk reaction to EDH spawned from haters. 100 card pile of cards? Let's make it 50 so it's extra easy to shuffle!! No more 2-hour long 8 player tables, here's 1-1 again!! And screw having a format where 7 and 8 drops can be played, here anything of 4 or more is literally unplayable by design!!
It was fun for like 2 sessions but then the 3 mana cost rule was way too restrictive to design anything creative. Ironically, that format would have probably demanded the low mana curve cards that are already in high demand by the Eternal formats, so other than demange fringe commanders like Marath would have been a total bust at that.
I dunno... what was the attraction for Tiny Leaders?
I perceived the format as some sort of Monopoly Jr version of EDH. Not as a means to raise prices but as a means to create shorter, more compact, games.
It became pretty obvious pretty quickly that they were trying to up prices on cards that would otherwise not be so expensive.
Where was this revealed?
Not disputing your claims, this is all new news to me. I've only read passing comments about TL or short blurbs here and there. I never pursued the format because, quite frankly, I wasn't interested in it. Even my youngest children can play EDH just fine and they have no interest in a Jr. version... unless it involves My Little Pony, then all bets are off.
I played Tiny Leaders, and I have to admit there was some good to it. True, the way they marketed it, the way they insisted on people using the trademarked symbol with the name, and a couple other things were obnoxious. And true, it was Commander Light, but it wasn't all bad. I've been playing EDH/Commander for nearly ten years, and I have to admit, I had allowed my mana curves to creep up a bit. After playing Tiny Leaders, I started working to lower my curve in normal commander. And the games were shorter, which worked better with one group that didn't have time for multiple two hour long games. So, yeah, I'm glad I played it, but I'm not heartbroken that it died out, either.
As with all formats you have to look at motivation.
TL benefited a huge number of stores financially, making otherwise unplayable cards into must haves. In player terms there was no demand for it, and there is always an issue with casual formats that centre on 1 v 1, they don't succeed as the player base was not looking for such a vehicle. EDH served the casuals, and there were not many things in TL that you could not do in Legacy or Modern.
Frontier is similar, it only had support from those who wanted to play Modern and avoid Standard but not spend the money on it and those looking to get into the format early to avoid costs or make money. Very few people were in that boat. Anybody already invested in Modern would have been nuts to support a replacement format that could potentially damage the value of their collection, making Blood Moons and Ensnaring Bridges etc. obsolete almost had it replaced Modern. Wizards did not want it either because a cheap alternative to Standard hurts it... they need people to find modern semi expensive compared to Standard. Then there was the issue that the format was going to be like a super Standard, rather than the diverse Modern format. I remember watching those posts about it go from 'super hyped to get my 100 dollar tier one deck' to 'nobody is playing this format, woe is me', as the message finally sinks in that successful eternal formats cost and that Christmas comes once a year.. the only time to be in an organised format at the start and to make a killing or set up a collection for life was at the start of Modern.
When a post modern format hits it won't be Frontier.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Tiny leaders was a pretty lame format because it was so easily "solved". It felt like playing Commander but for people that didn't want to put in effort on figuring out the larger format.
as the message finally sinks in that successful eternal formats cost and that Christmas comes once a year..
Pauper seems to be taking off - and it's unlikely tier-1 decks will ever hit Standard level prices (much less come even close to Modern prices).
Pauper is less gimmicky than TL (and has no affordable alternative, where TL was competing with EDH). Pauper lacks Frontiers issues too, with a huge cardpool and diverse archetypes. Unless WotC from nds a way to sabotage it, Pauper will be the Eternal format of the future.
I still think Tiny Leaders is a deep, fun format with an absolutely awesome deck building constraint that also smoothed out gameplay, and I still play and brew with some of my friends. It´s obviously a tad too solveable to be a good competitive format, but I honestly think it´s the best casual format.
If you hate it so much that you feel you have to create a new thread to flame an effectively dead format, then sure, you do you I guess. Though I guess your point was to compare it to Brawl, in which case my reply is that I´d pick Tiny Leaders over it any day of the week. Tiny has about as many available generals, has a larger card pool so that you can actually build focused decks instead of mindlessly jamming 10-15 auto-include Standard staples from each of your colors, does not rotate and does not compete with Standard for prices just to have the cards turn worthless when you no longer need them. Ew, no thanks.
I don´t think the format has legs, but I don´t think we should underestimate how much it matters for a format´s survivability to have official sanctioning and support. If they do something like a Showdown series, it´s going to be a huge boon for the format. Tiny and Frontier relied solely on the fanbase, which is an uphill battle from the start.
I guess it´s a casual format for people that are already playing Standard?
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I guess it´s a casual format for people that are already playing Standard?
I think Brawl is meant to be an entry format for casuals that is affordable and provides a gateway into Standard. Back in the day rookies would play 60 card casual (with mostly newer cards) and often tune their decks for FNM after they got a little experience. MTG currently lacks a casual format that feeds into Standard like this.
Not sure how it will do. I'm not really the target.
I liked it because it prevented battle cruiser magic. I see that far to often in edh. However, the people managing the format well seemed questionable. Secondly, I think the 50 card deck killed it. I did not mind the the streamlined nature, but I know a lot people since it was a for fun format felt their decks or other peoples deck played to much the same.
Always felt like an obvious attempt to both be the guy responsible for "the next EDH" while simultaneously using it as a means to inflate the values of certain cards and fill threads with "will be great for Tiny Leaders" comments.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Spirits
I dunno... what was the attraction for Tiny Leaders?
I perceived the format as some sort of Monopoly Jr version of EDH. Not as a means to raise prices but as a means to create shorter, more compact, games.
It became pretty obvious pretty quickly that they were trying to up prices on cards that would otherwise not be so expensive.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
It was fun for like 2 sessions but then the 3 mana cost rule was way too restrictive to design anything creative. Ironically, that format would have probably demanded the low mana curve cards that are already in high demand by the Eternal formats, so other than demange fringe commanders like Marath would have been a total bust at that.
Where was this revealed?
Not disputing your claims, this is all new news to me. I've only read passing comments about TL or short blurbs here and there. I never pursued the format because, quite frankly, I wasn't interested in it. Even my youngest children can play EDH just fine and they have no interest in a Jr. version... unless it involves My Little Pony, then all bets are off.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
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TL benefited a huge number of stores financially, making otherwise unplayable cards into must haves. In player terms there was no demand for it, and there is always an issue with casual formats that centre on 1 v 1, they don't succeed as the player base was not looking for such a vehicle. EDH served the casuals, and there were not many things in TL that you could not do in Legacy or Modern.
Frontier is similar, it only had support from those who wanted to play Modern and avoid Standard but not spend the money on it and those looking to get into the format early to avoid costs or make money. Very few people were in that boat. Anybody already invested in Modern would have been nuts to support a replacement format that could potentially damage the value of their collection, making Blood Moons and Ensnaring Bridges etc. obsolete almost had it replaced Modern. Wizards did not want it either because a cheap alternative to Standard hurts it... they need people to find modern semi expensive compared to Standard. Then there was the issue that the format was going to be like a super Standard, rather than the diverse Modern format. I remember watching those posts about it go from 'super hyped to get my 100 dollar tier one deck' to 'nobody is playing this format, woe is me', as the message finally sinks in that successful eternal formats cost and that Christmas comes once a year.. the only time to be in an organised format at the start and to make a killing or set up a collection for life was at the start of Modern.
When a post modern format hits it won't be Frontier.
Pauper seems to be taking off - and it's unlikely tier-1 decks will ever hit Standard level prices (much less come even close to Modern prices).
Pauper is less gimmicky than TL (and has no affordable alternative, where TL was competing with EDH). Pauper lacks Frontiers issues too, with a huge cardpool and diverse archetypes. Unless WotC from nds a way to sabotage it, Pauper will be the Eternal format of the future.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
If you hate it so much that you feel you have to create a new thread to flame an effectively dead format, then sure, you do you I guess. Though I guess your point was to compare it to Brawl, in which case my reply is that I´d pick Tiny Leaders over it any day of the week. Tiny has about as many available generals, has a larger card pool so that you can actually build focused decks instead of mindlessly jamming 10-15 auto-include Standard staples from each of your colors, does not rotate and does not compete with Standard for prices just to have the cards turn worthless when you no longer need them. Ew, no thanks.
I don´t think the format has legs, but I don´t think we should underestimate how much it matters for a format´s survivability to have official sanctioning and support. If they do something like a Showdown series, it´s going to be a huge boon for the format. Tiny and Frontier relied solely on the fanbase, which is an uphill battle from the start.
I guess it´s a casual format for people that are already playing Standard?
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
I think Brawl is meant to be an entry format for casuals that is affordable and provides a gateway into Standard. Back in the day rookies would play 60 card casual (with mostly newer cards) and often tune their decks for FNM after they got a little experience. MTG currently lacks a casual format that feeds into Standard like this.
Not sure how it will do. I'm not really the target.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Currently I'm working in my Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca deck. And with the upcoming Dominaria set, I will improve my Thelon of Havenwood deck.
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My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)