Given the new rules change and some of the spoilers that got revealed in Return to Dominaria, what are peoples thoughts are on the possibility of a new non-rotating format?
What I'm thinking from past comments on the subject:
1) It probably won't have fetchlands, but then again WoTC has flipped around on these things before so who knows.
2) It's going to use newer generation keywords and abilities. No Regeneration or Protection from X Color type spells.
3) The new format wont have any color hosing cards like boil.
4) Their likely wont be things like Ensnaring Bridge, though Archangel of Tithes and Ghostly Prison are probably still going to show up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I definitely feel like WotC wants to create Modern 2.0 (or, more honestly, Legacy 3.0). I think an interesting discussion would be where would WotC put the arbitrary start point for such a format?
When Modern was announced, the format had 26 expansion sets and a bunch of Core Sets. If the new Modern 2.0 format did the same (and it was announced around when Dominaria comes out), then it would go all the way back to Scars of Mirrodin. Starting with a Mirrodin block has a nice symetry to it, with how the first real block of Modern was Mirrodin. However, there are some really potent cards and strategies in that block. Do we really want this new format to start its life off with Infect? Not sure.
Modern 1.0 had an arbitrary start date when Magic released new card frame. If we did the same for Modern 2.0, then the start date would be Magic 2015. To me, that feels better but I don't really see the point is arbitrarily starting a set when new card frames came out, since all reprints going forward have the new frame (so the visual distinction is much less obvious today than it was in 2011 when Modern was announced).
In some ways, I feel like starting with Battle for Zendikar would be best, since it is the first block that broke with the traditional block structure (which would eventually lead to the dismantling of Blocks entirely). It is the tipping point when Magic stopped being convinced of in the way it had since the Mirage block (way back in 1996). It is at the point when Magic changed, for better or worse. Having said that, I kind of feel like even this is not perfect, since that means there will only be 11 sets in the format (including Dominaria but not including core sets). That is definitely too few.
To be dead honest, I always go back to Khans or Magic: Origins as being the most likely. If they do go with Khans Block, they will likely just ban the Fetchlands and be done with it.
True, they could just ban fetchlands and set the start point at Kahns or origins. However, I'm thinking they may start one that has a later start due to the rules change.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
True, they could just ban fetchlands and set the start point at Kahns or origins. However, I'm thinking they may start one that has a later start due to the rules change.
If they do start later than Khans, then I imagine they will wait a few more years before announcing the new format. Most people would derisively call that version of Modern 2.0 "Standard and Friends"
I've played 'fetchless frontier' and it devolves to RG Aggro too quickly. Fetches allow for 3 colour decks to exist and compete, with that kind of thing. I mean its really about what you prefer I suppose. To me, I would be sad to lose 3 colour decks (UWR, Jund, Esper, etc etc) because the mana was too poor or slow.
I mean, it's obvious they would. I just don't remember any sort of announcement as such.
They havent, its just the speculation exercise that comes around now and again. Frontier was a failure, because it simply didnt solve a real need. I dont know that there is a 'real need' right now for a 'Post Modern' anyway, but its something to pass the time with.
I've played 'fetchless frontier' and it devolves to RG Aggro too quickly. Fetches allow for 3 colour decks to exist and compete, with that kind of thing. I mean its really about what you prefer I suppose. To me, I would be sad to lose 3 colour decks (UWR, Jund, Esper, etc etc) because the mana was too poor or slow.
Why do anything but blitz aggro?
WotC disagrees with you. I could go either way. The nice thing about starting with Khans is that WotC could ban the Fetchlands, then if things go poorly, they can unban them (and thereby avoiding reprinting them in Standard, something WotC really does not want to do).
One of the biggest benefits to a Fetchland is fetching a Shockland (since it taps for 2 different colors right away). The nice thing about Post-Modern is that Shock Lands are not in the format, so the power of Fetchlands are diminished some. You would need to fetch Basics, Battle Lands or the bicycle lands. I am pretty ok with this, to be honest.
I mean, it's obvious they would. I just don't remember any sort of announcement as such.
They have not announced a new format. But there has been a lot of speculation that WotC will announce a new format in the near future (near being relative, it could be a few years away, honestly (the only thing we know is that they will eventually pull the trigger, we just do not know when)).
I've played 'fetchless frontier' and it devolves to RG Aggro too quickly. Fetches allow for 3 colour decks to exist and compete, with that kind of thing. I mean its really about what you prefer I suppose. To me, I would be sad to lose 3 colour decks (UWR, Jund, Esper, etc etc) because the mana was too poor or slow.
Why do anything but blitz aggro?
WotC disagrees with you. I could go either way. The nice thing about starting with Khans is that WotC could ban the Fetchlands, then if things go poorly, they can unban them (and thereby avoiding reprinting them in Standard, something WotC really does not want to do).
One of the biggest benefits to a Fetchland is fetching a Shockland (since it taps for 2 different colors right away). The nice thing about Post-Modern is that Shock Lands are not in the format, so the power of Fetchlands are diminished some. You would need to fetch Basics, Battle Lands or the bicycle lands. I am pretty ok with this, to be honest.
They also didnt like what 1 cmc dorks, or 4 mana wrath's do. I dont know, I suppose I would just stick with Modern if a 'post-Modern' design philosophy was what defined the next format.
The odds of them announcing a new format when Dominaria is released seems very low. The new format would need at minimum 5 years worth of sets to really distinguish itself from its standard years. Though I would expect them to wait until their format had closer to 10 years of sets. Anything smaller will feel like a resurrection of extended, which nobody liked.
Actually, frontier had issues due to the very same design problems that standard got stuck with as the problems with pushed 3 drops at the cost of 1 cmc mana dorks started with BFZ and onwards. The format was much more than aggro lists, though. Some people might have gotten stuck in the R/G aggro phase because not a lot of pros played the format at all and the available deck lists to spur ideas forward were far and few between.
I'm pretty sure the future is going to be a fetchless format. At the very least it will be that way at the onset unless there is a huge outcry.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
i feel pauper is the new popular eternal format. with no chase mythics to sell sets i expect something else to come along but for now pauper looks good
Actually, frontier had issues due to the very same design problems that standard got stuck with as the problems with pushed 3 drops at the cost of 1 cmc mana dorks started with BFZ and onwards. The format was much more than aggro lists, though. Some people might have gotten stuck in the R/G aggro phase because not a lot of pros played the format at all and the available deck lists to spur ideas forward were far and few between.
I'm pretty sure the future is going to be a fetchless format. At the very least it will be that way at the onset unless there is a huge outcry.
It has the same design problems as standard because it was barely bigger than standard. If it had a few more years it would have suffered from its own unique problems as opposed to the same old problems.
i feel pauper is the new popular eternal format. with no chase mythics to sell sets i expect something else to come along but for now pauper looks good
Pauper is kind of interesting because it fills the classic 60 card tabletop experience while also being a competitive format. Someone can basically play pauper and whatever other format they want since it's so easy to get into.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm not really sure why this topic was created. Could they make a new nonrotating format? Sure; pretty sure people have been speculating about that ever since Modern was created back in 2011. But I don't see how anything in Dominaria would lend increased credence to the idea of them doing it soon.
It's like randomly starting up a topic speculating about the possibility of an asteroid colliding into Earth. It could happen, but unless there's a real reason to believe it's more likely than before, there's not much purpose in making a thread about it.
Their is no or little demand from the player base for this. They would be better suited to FIX the problems the current modern has (or legacy... or you know vintage) People tend not to be upset about "oh no my mana base is just too darn good" and "Rats I hate having access to this amazing exceleration why wizards why do you give me these great cards that make things more fun, diverse and interesting" never have I seen someone play a lighting bolt and say "man I wish this was a shock instead" The new format would be the real "creatures rule" format. Their would be no land destruction, no combo limited control, just a pure mid range and agro slug fest. At least modern is starting to develop some real deck types.
So, this is an admittedly crazy idea, but why not axe Vintage and Legacy (which are fundamentally dead formats) and replace it with an Open format? Bring the most degenerate deck you can. No restricted or banned list would be a feature of the format.
Not necessarily. There are degenerate combos, ramping, and library manipulation throughout the history of Magic. Yeah, you'd like Ancestral Recall, but would you really complain about using Brainstorm instead?
An Open format also creates design space for the RnD team and, I think, would be every bit as diverse as Modern.
As an aside, condensing two formats leaves the slate open to adopt Commander as an official format.
What I'm thinking from past comments on the subject:
1) It probably won't have fetchlands, but then again WoTC has flipped around on these things before so who knows.
2) It's going to use newer generation keywords and abilities. No Regeneration or Protection from X Color type spells.
3) The new format wont have any color hosing cards like boil.
4) Their likely wont be things like Ensnaring Bridge, though Archangel of Tithes and Ghostly Prison are probably still going to show up.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
When Modern was announced, the format had 26 expansion sets and a bunch of Core Sets. If the new Modern 2.0 format did the same (and it was announced around when Dominaria comes out), then it would go all the way back to Scars of Mirrodin. Starting with a Mirrodin block has a nice symetry to it, with how the first real block of Modern was Mirrodin. However, there are some really potent cards and strategies in that block. Do we really want this new format to start its life off with Infect? Not sure.
Modern 1.0 had an arbitrary start date when Magic released new card frame. If we did the same for Modern 2.0, then the start date would be Magic 2015. To me, that feels better but I don't really see the point is arbitrarily starting a set when new card frames came out, since all reprints going forward have the new frame (so the visual distinction is much less obvious today than it was in 2011 when Modern was announced).
In some ways, I feel like starting with Battle for Zendikar would be best, since it is the first block that broke with the traditional block structure (which would eventually lead to the dismantling of Blocks entirely). It is the tipping point when Magic stopped being convinced of in the way it had since the Mirage block (way back in 1996). It is at the point when Magic changed, for better or worse. Having said that, I kind of feel like even this is not perfect, since that means there will only be 11 sets in the format (including Dominaria but not including core sets). That is definitely too few.
To be dead honest, I always go back to Khans or Magic: Origins as being the most likely. If they do go with Khans Block, they will likely just ban the Fetchlands and be done with it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
If they do start later than Khans, then I imagine they will wait a few more years before announcing the new format. Most people would derisively call that version of Modern 2.0 "Standard and Friends"
Ehhhh, I am not the biggest fan of Fetchlands. They make life a little too easy.
I mean, it's obvious they would. I just don't remember any sort of announcement as such.
Why do anything but blitz aggro?
Spirits
They havent, its just the speculation exercise that comes around now and again. Frontier was a failure, because it simply didnt solve a real need. I dont know that there is a 'real need' right now for a 'Post Modern' anyway, but its something to pass the time with.
Spirits
WotC disagrees with you. I could go either way. The nice thing about starting with Khans is that WotC could ban the Fetchlands, then if things go poorly, they can unban them (and thereby avoiding reprinting them in Standard, something WotC really does not want to do).
One of the biggest benefits to a Fetchland is fetching a Shockland (since it taps for 2 different colors right away). The nice thing about Post-Modern is that Shock Lands are not in the format, so the power of Fetchlands are diminished some. You would need to fetch Basics, Battle Lands or the bicycle lands. I am pretty ok with this, to be honest.
They have not announced a new format. But there has been a lot of speculation that WotC will announce a new format in the near future (near being relative, it could be a few years away, honestly (the only thing we know is that they will eventually pull the trigger, we just do not know when)).
They also didnt like what 1 cmc dorks, or 4 mana wrath's do. I dont know, I suppose I would just stick with Modern if a 'post-Modern' design philosophy was what defined the next format.
Spirits
I'm pretty sure the future is going to be a fetchless format. At the very least it will be that way at the onset unless there is a huge outcry.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Pauper is kind of interesting because it fills the classic 60 card tabletop experience while also being a competitive format. Someone can basically play pauper and whatever other format they want since it's so easy to get into.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
It's like randomly starting up a topic speculating about the possibility of an asteroid colliding into Earth. It could happen, but unless there's a real reason to believe it's more likely than before, there's not much purpose in making a thread about it.
Spirits
I agree with everything you are saying, but what are your examples of Real Decks.
Spirits
Spirits
An Open format also creates design space for the RnD team and, I think, would be every bit as diverse as Modern.
As an aside, condensing two formats leaves the slate open to adopt Commander as an official format.
Spirits