Really we should all show some discipline along these lines. Refrain from buying so the prices come down then buy 3 to 6 months out in moderation as to not drive prices too high. That's asking a lot to say the least.
That depends entirely upon the personality of the person in question.
I'm happy they're making this set, I think that it's gonna do a lot to tank prices but as the saying says, WotC could give Magic players an $100 bill in packs but Magic players would complain about how its folded
I'm happy they're making this set, I think that it's gonna do a lot to tank prices but as the saying says, WotC could give Magic players an $100 bill in packs but Magic players would complain about how its folded
Or you know what else they say. Wizards could put a quarter in most 10 dollar packs and some players will gush over its roundness.
The criticisms are entirely justified this go around, period.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
You are spot-on about draft being a design limitation here. I'm with you that for reprint sets, their design focus should not be on draft but for constructed. I am really happy that this time around the community seems to have focused in on this subject.
If the argument here is that design focus on draft is what has made this and Iconic Masters underwhelming, I wholeheartedly disagree. Why? Because people generally agree that the best Masters set for draft was Modern Masters, the original. This was also the one with the most value in it.
I strongly disagree on this claim. Draft is a critical aspect to any reprint set, maybe even more so than a regular set. Because a regular set they have to consider the Standard impact and (at least briefly) impact on larger formats. Reprint sets don't have any such hampers because they're not adding any new cards to anything. Additionally, draft makes buying packs much more "worth it." You're unlikely to actually get your money back via a booster pack but if you draft you at least get some extra fun out of it, which can justify the price you paid.
However, if the argument is that focus on making a good draft/sealed environment is the reason for Iconic Masters and Masters 25 being seen as underwhelming, I wholeheartedly disagree. From a value standpoint, the first Modern Masters might have been the best of all of the Masters sets. But people thought that its draft environment was fantastic, and it's usually held up as the best draft environment of all of the Masters set. So the original Modern Masters singlehandedly disproves the idea that making a good Draft environment in a reprint set is at odds with having good value rares and mythics.
Drafting is one of the major design limitations for reprint products... Another nasty thorn in player's side is getting too much format overlap in products that target eternal formats. That needs to stop too. No more printing Commander, Legacy and Vintage staples/reprints (or straight up new cards for these formats) in Standard-legal or Modern-legal products.
Er... why?
No, really, why? What's wrong with printing those reprints in Standard or Modern-legal products? Putting those reprints in Standard is actually a great thing because that creates way more product out there than if you put it in a more limited edition set. I'd much rather have the fetchlands in Standard than in a Masters edition; the Khans reprint made the fetchlands way more easy to get than the Masters reprint did. I'm really confused what the problem here is supposed to be. (okay, there were some complaints about the fetchlands in Standard, but that was because WOTC thought it was somehow a good idea to put them in the same Standard format as the battlelands--had the battlelands been put into Standard just 6 months later, no one would have had any issue)
Though I do enjoy these sets for the reprints (but not the high cost), I will say that this one missed the boat on a few points. There were rumors that JTMS was going to be reprinted as a rare this time around, which I was quite impressed with, as this would have solved both the availability and high price problem with the card. Sadly, this was not to be. Another gripe I have is the choice not to include Liliana of the Veil, a card desperately in need of another reprint, and honestly, a card I feel should have been included, both to increase the set's value and to increase availability for the player base.
On another note, does this set REALLY feel like a "celebration" of Magic to anyone? I fail to see how. I wholeheartedly agree with previous posters saying that a complete removal of the restricted list would do wonders for the game. This set feels like it should have had iconic cards from the most powerful sets and famous tournament decks throughout the game's history, far more than have been included. Instead, we have something that feels watered down and like "just another reprint set".
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"To make peace with the forest, make peace with me." -Multani, to Urza
I've stopped putting consistently (which means monthly) money into MTG since the boredom that was Shadows over Innistrad, but I can already see what A25 will be at my LGS:
- Bunch of people giggling around paying their 30 - 35€ for the draft (which is the cost of 3 regular set drafts) expecting stuff
- Lots of ratcatchers & co open, with the occasional Chalice/Blood Moon (bad in limited, but you try to somehow cover your costs right) and maybe the very occasional Jace, if any
- Top table drawing to ensure prize, nobody else gets anything, lots of disappointment
- Following week, everybody's back to Ixalan.
On another note, does this set REALLY feel like a "celebration" of Magic to anyone? I fail to see how.
To be fair, a lot of birthday celebrations in attended werent that much more fancy or exciting ;P
Not that this should be an example for WotC how to do some celebrations, but they might also grow old and this actually is like a "nice party" for them at this point ...
Magic players: "These cards are too expensive, Wizards needs to reprint them!"
Also Magic players: "Wizards is only reprinting these cards to make money!"
alright i'll bite.
its not so much complaining that wizards is printing higher value cards just to make money, its that when you're paying a premium for a product and you can open less than a dollars worth of cards in that pack it becomes really obvious that some of those high value cards were printed just to push the set. that they were included for no other reason. not that they make the draft format better, not that they needed to be reprinted, but that they had high secondary market value and the drones will eat it up because they MIGHT open that $100 card.
it means you can design a garbage set, and just include a few choice high value cards, and it'll sell.
everyone wonders whats wrong with the game lately, there it is. its right there in front of you. you can design a garbage set, and all you have to do is include a handful of pushed or high value cards and it doesn't matter.
but sure lets keep wondering why standard gets stagnant, or why people stop drafting, or why new product sits on shelves.
I'm sure WotC has people who will write "favorable" reviews to try to make the set appealing. However, with the whole set spoiled, and with the current selling prices of the booster box, I think the market has spoken that this set is not that appealing.
As someone who buys product cases for things like Masters releases, I do not understand why people are so upset about this product. This kind of product goes 2 ways
1. Reprints are abundant and people pay inflated prices for sealed boxes but get more partial sets of what they need for $600+ if you buy a case
2. Reprints are few and that budget of $600+ gets you complete playsets of what you wanted.
People are going to get their money's worth from these sets one way or another. Either the set is worth enough to buy sealed product for, or it is not worth enough but has reprints that are solid enough for you to buy instead of sealed product.
The set is fine, and if you are conscious of how you spend your money on these products - they will always be worth it to anyone who actually cares or has a need for this kind of supplemental product.
I am kind of relieved the set is not enticing enough to buy a case of, because the money I would put into a case is still going to secure me the Chalice of the Voids that I need, along with the Ports and Recruiters.
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STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
As someone who buys product cases for things like Masters releases, I do not understand why people are so upset about this product. This kind of product goes 2 ways
1. Reprints are abundant and people pay inflated prices for sealed boxes but get more partial sets of what they need for $600+ if you buy a case
2. Reprints are few and that budget of $600+ gets you complete playsets of what you wanted.
People are going to get their money's worth from these sets one way or another. Either the set is worth enough to buy sealed product for, or it is not worth enough but has reprints that are solid enough for you to buy instead of sealed product.
The set is fine, and if you are conscious of how you spend your money on these products - they will always be worth it to anyone who actually cares or has a need for this kind of supplemental product.
I am kind of relieved the set is not enticing enough to buy a case of, because the money I would put into a case is still going to secure me the Chalice of the Voids that I need, along with the Ports and Recruiters.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
As someone who buys product cases for things like Masters releases, I do not understand why people are so upset about this product. This kind of product goes 2 ways
1. Reprints are abundant and people pay inflated prices for sealed boxes but get more partial sets of what they need for $600+ if you buy a case
2. Reprints are few and that budget of $600+ gets you complete playsets of what you wanted.
People are going to get their money's worth from these sets one way or another. Either the set is worth enough to buy sealed product for, or it is not worth enough but has reprints that are solid enough for you to buy instead of sealed product.
The set is fine, and if you are conscious of how you spend your money on these products - they will always be worth it to anyone who actually cares or has a need for this kind of supplemental product.
I am kind of relieved the set is not enticing enough to buy a case of, because the money I would put into a case is still going to secure me the Chalice of the Voids that I need, along with the Ports and Recruiters.
Thanks for the input Mark Rosewater.
Hey man, I understand that you really like feeling miserable.. but you don't need to spread it around. Either find the silver lining or go jack off and cry somewhere else.
As someone who buys product cases for things like Masters releases, I do not understand why people are so upset about this product. This kind of product goes 2 ways
1. Reprints are abundant and people pay inflated prices for sealed boxes but get more partial sets of what they need for $600+ if you buy a case
2. Reprints are few and that budget of $600+ gets you complete playsets of what you wanted.
People are going to get their money's worth from these sets one way or another. Either the set is worth enough to buy sealed product for, or it is not worth enough but has reprints that are solid enough for you to buy instead of sealed product.
The set is fine, and if you are conscious of how you spend your money on these products - they will always be worth it to anyone who actually cares or has a need for this kind of supplemental product.
I am kind of relieved the set is not enticing enough to buy a case of, because the money I would put into a case is still going to secure me the Chalice of the Voids that I need, along with the Ports and Recruiters.
Thanks for the input Mark Rosewater.
Hey man, I understand that you really like feeling miserable.. but you don't need to spread it around. Either find the silver lining or go jack off and cry somewhere else.
Orrrrrrr perhaps people have legitimate grievances? Just because someone has a negative opinion does not mean it can be immediately dismissed in favor of "finding the silver lining."
You're looking at this from the perspective of a person who buys cases of sealed product - so those two options apply to you from the perspective of profitability. However, if someone just wants to buy into a deck, they want reprints that will lower prices in a meaningful way. If the purpose of masters sets is to keep prices from exploding, then they are screwing up. If that's not why they are doing it, honestly we shouldn't buy the product. I'm looking out for my best interest, and a masters set system that seems to benefit WOTC and investors far more than consumers doesn't sit well with me. Apparently I'm not alone. And here we are making arguments that passersby may see and go "you know what they are right, so we're not going to buy this and send a message to WOTC/CFB/SCG/everyone else."
And honestly, WarMachinePrime made a joke. Withholding my own feelings towards Rosewater (we aren't allowed to not like WOTC employees), it was worth a short laugh. You'll live.
As someone who buys product cases for things like Masters releases, I do not understand why people are so upset about this product. This kind of product goes 2 ways
1. Reprints are abundant and people pay inflated prices for sealed boxes but get more partial sets of what they need for $600+ if you buy a case
2. Reprints are few and that budget of $600+ gets you complete playsets of what you wanted.
People are going to get their money's worth from these sets one way or another. Either the set is worth enough to buy sealed product for, or it is not worth enough but has reprints that are solid enough for you to buy instead of sealed product.
The set is fine, and if you are conscious of how you spend your money on these products - they will always be worth it to anyone who actually cares or has a need for this kind of supplemental product.
I am kind of relieved the set is not enticing enough to buy a case of, because the money I would put into a case is still going to secure me the Chalice of the Voids that I need, along with the Ports and Recruiters.
Thanks for the input Mark Rosewater.
Hey man, I understand that you really like feeling miserable.. but you don't need to spread it around. Either find the silver lining or go jack off and cry somewhere else.
Orrrrrrr perhaps people have legitimate grievances? Just because someone has a negative opinion does not mean it can be immediately dismissed in favor of "finding the silver lining."
You're looking at this from the perspective of a person who buys cases of sealed product - so those two options apply to you from the perspective of profitability. However, if someone just wants to buy into a deck, they want reprints that will lower prices in a meaningful way. If the purpose of masters sets is to keep prices from exploding, then they are screwing up. If that's not why they are doing it, honestly we shouldn't buy the product. I'm looking out for my best interest, and a masters set system that seems to benefit WOTC and investors far more than consumers doesn't sit well with me. Apparently I'm not alone. And here we are making arguments that passersby may see and go "you know what they are right, so we're not going to buy this and send a message to WOTC/CFB/SCG/everyone else."
And honestly, WarMachinePrime made a joke. Withholding my own feelings towards Rosewater (we aren't allowed to not like WOTC employees), it was worth a short laugh. You'll live.
For what it is worth, I was not always buying cases of sealed product. In fact I used to just not buy any of the original MM because I could hardly scrape together $50 for a couple of packs. What did I do instead? I scraped up that $50 and bought singles, and that is coming from the other angle where the product was stalked full of great stuff and I had a low budget.
The reality is that if you dislike the product because it was not what you expected, reallocate your spending to get what you wanted out of the product. Whether you have a low budget or a high budget, it is irrelevant. You act like reprints always bring down prices in any substantial way. Markets do not work like that, sure it is a good rule of thumb, but it is not always applicable.
That was not a joke, that was a +1 response that had no actual substance.
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Reprints CAN if done properly. Any reprint is going to shift the supply curve, guaranteed, with a possibility of shifting the demand curve as well. I've said before and will say again that masters sets should not have mythics. We should have three tiers of rarity, printed at equal rates. The print runs should not be limited, and should operate like any standard set where it keeps going until a period of time has passed instead of an arbitrary number being hit. I'm not going to reward WOTC with my money for halfassing something.
True, reprints don't always reduce price, but to act as if WOTC shouldn't try is silly. Then again I'm still hoping that all the loot crate/gambling controversy spreads to CCGs as well. I wouldn't mind this entire company being knocked around a bit, metaphorically speaking.
Here is a random thought - the MSRP of a regular booster pack is $3.99 with a booster retail of $143.64. However, nobody pays full retail for these booster boxes. You can easily find boxes of the latest set for $90, and if you look carefully you can typically find them for as low as $80. If the set is a real stinker, you can occasionally find them for as low as $70.
At $90 - that is a 38% discount off retail
At $80 - that is a 45% discount off retail
At $70 - that is a 52% discount off retail
I'm curious as to why the Modern Masters boosters are being held to their retail $9.99 price point. Iconic Masters can be had easily for $150, and we've seen them as low as $120.
At $150 - that is a 38% discount off retail
At $120 - that is a 50% discount off retail
It seems that these new masters sets are trending more closely to what we are seeing from standard booster boxes. Isn't this a good thing? I would think smart people will take a look at the product and decide a price point they will buy in. To me a 50% discount is very tempting for IMA. with M25, it wouldn't surprise me if we reached a similar price point. I agree with everyone that if you're paying $240 for M25 its a horrible product to buy, but at $150? $120?
If we're talking about pre-order pricing, we can make the same inference as to pre-ordering singles. They are almost always wildly inflated and tank immediately after the set releases. Very rarely do you get the best price by pre-ordering.
Reprints CAN if done properly. Any reprint is going to shift the supply curve, guaranteed, with a possibility of shifting the demand curve as well. I've said before and will say again that masters sets should not have mythics. We should have three tiers of rarity, printed at equal rates. The print runs should not be limited, and should operate like any standard set where it keeps going until a period of time has passed instead of an arbitrary number being hit. I'm not going to reward WOTC with my money for halfassing something.
True, reprints don't always reduce price, but to act as if WOTC shouldn't try is silly. Then again I'm still hoping that all the loot crate/gambling controversy spreads to CCGs as well. I wouldn't mind this entire company being knocked around a bit, metaphorically speaking.
Gofy in Classic Modern Masters would like to have a word with you.
Something people forget is that products like this also increase demand. People who would otherwise not seek out a playset of certain cards, suddenly find themselves with singles and now desire play sets.
I never said WOTC should not try to reduce second market pricing. What I did say is that people should react to these products in a more pragmatic way, rather than just getting upset it does not have all the value they wanted. If you ever played Yu-Gi-Oh you would understand that reprinting can also have a damning effect and such action needs to be tentatively cultivated properly. The reprints in this set may not be abuntand in diversity, but they are high ticket cards that needed a reprint and their individual card value is actually pretty high. You cannot eat your cake and have it too. Either you get abundance in diverse low value (comparatively) or you get scarcity in high value singles.
Something about not every product being intended for every player...
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STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
As someone who buys product cases for things like Masters releases, I do not understand why people are so upset about this product. This kind of product goes 2 ways
1. Reprints are abundant and people pay inflated prices for sealed boxes but get more partial sets of what they need for $600+ if you buy a case
2. Reprints are few and that budget of $600+ gets you complete playsets of what you wanted.
People are going to get their money's worth from these sets one way or another. Either the set is worth enough to buy sealed product for, or it is not worth enough but has reprints that are solid enough for you to buy instead of sealed product.
The set is fine, and if you are conscious of how you spend your money on these products - they will always be worth it to anyone who actually cares or has a need for this kind of supplemental product.
I am kind of relieved the set is not enticing enough to buy a case of, because the money I would put into a case is still going to secure me the Chalice of the Voids that I need, along with the Ports and Recruiters.
Thanks for the input Mark Rosewater.
Hey man, I understand that you really like feeling miserable.. but you don't need to spread it around. Either find the silver lining or go jack off and cry somewhere else.
You have been reported.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
As someone who buys product cases for things like Masters releases, I do not understand why people are so upset about this product. This kind of product goes 2 ways
1. Reprints are abundant and people pay inflated prices for sealed boxes but get more partial sets of what they need for $600+ if you buy a case
2. Reprints are few and that budget of $600+ gets you complete playsets of what you wanted.
People are going to get their money's worth from these sets one way or another. Either the set is worth enough to buy sealed product for, or it is not worth enough but has reprints that are solid enough for you to buy instead of sealed product.
The set is fine, and if you are conscious of how you spend your money on these products - they will always be worth it to anyone who actually cares or has a need for this kind of supplemental product.
I am kind of relieved the set is not enticing enough to buy a case of, because the money I would put into a case is still going to secure me the Chalice of the Voids that I need, along with the Ports and Recruiters.
Thanks for the input Mark Rosewater.
Hey man, I understand that you really like feeling miserable.. but you don't need to spread it around. Either find the silver lining or go jack off and cry somewhere else.
Orrrrrrr perhaps people have legitimate grievances? Just because someone has a negative opinion does not mean it can be immediately dismissed in favor of "finding the silver lining."
You're looking at this from the perspective of a person who buys cases of sealed product - so those two options apply to you from the perspective of profitability. However, if someone just wants to buy into a deck, they want reprints that will lower prices in a meaningful way. If the purpose of masters sets is to keep prices from exploding, then they are screwing up. If that's not why they are doing it, honestly we shouldn't buy the product. I'm looking out for my best interest, and a masters set system that seems to benefit WOTC and investors far more than consumers doesn't sit well with me. Apparently I'm not alone. And here we are making arguments that passersby may see and go "you know what they are right, so we're not going to buy this and send a message to WOTC/CFB/SCG/everyone else."
And honestly, WarMachinePrime made a joke. Withholding my own feelings towards Rosewater (we aren't allowed to not like WOTC employees), it was worth a short laugh. You'll live.
Thank you. Good to hear a reasonable voice even if you may disagree with me. And the personal attack from said member did nothing but validate my original response.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Orrrrrrr perhaps people have legitimate grievances? Just because someone has a negative opinion does not mean it can be immediately dismissed in favor of "finding the silver lining."
When people have grievance about reprint sets, maybe wizards should stop doing them.
People seem to forget that this is not a modern masters set. I personaly look forward to get a recruiter for my animar-edh.
Fine with me. They already announced a reduction in masters sets. I'm not complaining about that. Hell I've said elsewhere I'm in favor of expanding the reserved list IF DONE PROPERLY. I think the execution is bull*****. You claim the problem we have is with reprint sets? No, the problem is with INEFFECTIVE reprint sets. That adjective is critical in distinguishing between my actual problem and your attempt at a response. Let's be real here, if your motivation is around a single card, then yeah you are in good shape. Th
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That depends entirely upon the personality of the person in question.
Or you know what else they say. Wizards could put a quarter in most 10 dollar packs and some players will gush over its roundness.
The criticisms are entirely justified this go around, period.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/781415-the-rule-of-56-originals-in-commander-is-a?comment=1
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/781415-the-rule-of-56-originals-in-commander-is-a?comment=10
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
On another note, does this set REALLY feel like a "celebration" of Magic to anyone? I fail to see how. I wholeheartedly agree with previous posters saying that a complete removal of the restricted list would do wonders for the game. This set feels like it should have had iconic cards from the most powerful sets and famous tournament decks throughout the game's history, far more than have been included. Instead, we have something that feels watered down and like "just another reprint set".
The number is HUGE.
So WotC could certainly believe thats a big thing ... kinda ...
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
- Bunch of people giggling around paying their 30 - 35€ for the draft (which is the cost of 3 regular set drafts) expecting stuff
- Lots of ratcatchers & co open, with the occasional Chalice/Blood Moon (bad in limited, but you try to somehow cover your costs right) and maybe the very occasional Jace, if any
- Top table drawing to ensure prize, nobody else gets anything, lots of disappointment
- Following week, everybody's back to Ixalan.
To be fair, a lot of birthday celebrations in attended werent that much more fancy or exciting ;P
Not that this should be an example for WotC how to do some celebrations, but they might also grow old and this actually is like a "nice party" for them at this point ...
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
alright i'll bite.
its not so much complaining that wizards is printing higher value cards just to make money, its that when you're paying a premium for a product and you can open less than a dollars worth of cards in that pack it becomes really obvious that some of those high value cards were printed just to push the set. that they were included for no other reason. not that they make the draft format better, not that they needed to be reprinted, but that they had high secondary market value and the drones will eat it up because they MIGHT open that $100 card.
it means you can design a garbage set, and just include a few choice high value cards, and it'll sell.
everyone wonders whats wrong with the game lately, there it is. its right there in front of you. you can design a garbage set, and all you have to do is include a handful of pushed or high value cards and it doesn't matter.
but sure lets keep wondering why standard gets stagnant, or why people stop drafting, or why new product sits on shelves.
No swords
No doubling season
No noble heirarch
No demonic tutor
No chromatic lantern
But hey, they did give Ravenous Chupacabra from Rivals of Ixalan a much needed reprint. Standard is so expensive to break into after all...
What about any of that is iconic of MTGs 25 years? I guess disappointing the players lol.
Haha!
I'm sure WotC has people who will write "favorable" reviews to try to make the set appealing. However, with the whole set spoiled, and with the current selling prices of the booster box, I think the market has spoken that this set is not that appealing.
1. Reprints are abundant and people pay inflated prices for sealed boxes but get more partial sets of what they need for $600+ if you buy a case
2. Reprints are few and that budget of $600+ gets you complete playsets of what you wanted.
People are going to get their money's worth from these sets one way or another. Either the set is worth enough to buy sealed product for, or it is not worth enough but has reprints that are solid enough for you to buy instead of sealed product.
The set is fine, and if you are conscious of how you spend your money on these products - they will always be worth it to anyone who actually cares or has a need for this kind of supplemental product.
I am kind of relieved the set is not enticing enough to buy a case of, because the money I would put into a case is still going to secure me the Chalice of the Voids that I need, along with the Ports and Recruiters.
STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
Thanks for the input Mark Rosewater.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Hey man, I understand that you really like feeling miserable.. but you don't need to spread it around. Either find the silver lining or go jack off and cry somewhere else.
STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
Orrrrrrr perhaps people have legitimate grievances? Just because someone has a negative opinion does not mean it can be immediately dismissed in favor of "finding the silver lining."
You're looking at this from the perspective of a person who buys cases of sealed product - so those two options apply to you from the perspective of profitability. However, if someone just wants to buy into a deck, they want reprints that will lower prices in a meaningful way. If the purpose of masters sets is to keep prices from exploding, then they are screwing up. If that's not why they are doing it, honestly we shouldn't buy the product. I'm looking out for my best interest, and a masters set system that seems to benefit WOTC and investors far more than consumers doesn't sit well with me. Apparently I'm not alone. And here we are making arguments that passersby may see and go "you know what they are right, so we're not going to buy this and send a message to WOTC/CFB/SCG/everyone else."
And honestly, WarMachinePrime made a joke. Withholding my own feelings towards Rosewater (we aren't allowed to not like WOTC employees), it was worth a short laugh. You'll live.
For what it is worth, I was not always buying cases of sealed product. In fact I used to just not buy any of the original MM because I could hardly scrape together $50 for a couple of packs. What did I do instead? I scraped up that $50 and bought singles, and that is coming from the other angle where the product was stalked full of great stuff and I had a low budget.
The reality is that if you dislike the product because it was not what you expected, reallocate your spending to get what you wanted out of the product. Whether you have a low budget or a high budget, it is irrelevant. You act like reprints always bring down prices in any substantial way. Markets do not work like that, sure it is a good rule of thumb, but it is not always applicable.
That was not a joke, that was a +1 response that had no actual substance.
STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
True, reprints don't always reduce price, but to act as if WOTC shouldn't try is silly. Then again I'm still hoping that all the loot crate/gambling controversy spreads to CCGs as well. I wouldn't mind this entire company being knocked around a bit, metaphorically speaking.
At $90 - that is a 38% discount off retail
At $80 - that is a 45% discount off retail
At $70 - that is a 52% discount off retail
I'm curious as to why the Modern Masters boosters are being held to their retail $9.99 price point. Iconic Masters can be had easily for $150, and we've seen them as low as $120.
At $150 - that is a 38% discount off retail
At $120 - that is a 50% discount off retail
It seems that these new masters sets are trending more closely to what we are seeing from standard booster boxes. Isn't this a good thing? I would think smart people will take a look at the product and decide a price point they will buy in. To me a 50% discount is very tempting for IMA. with M25, it wouldn't surprise me if we reached a similar price point. I agree with everyone that if you're paying $240 for M25 its a horrible product to buy, but at $150? $120?
If we're talking about pre-order pricing, we can make the same inference as to pre-ordering singles. They are almost always wildly inflated and tank immediately after the set releases. Very rarely do you get the best price by pre-ordering.
Am I missing something here?
Gofy in Classic Modern Masters would like to have a word with you.
Something people forget is that products like this also increase demand. People who would otherwise not seek out a playset of certain cards, suddenly find themselves with singles and now desire play sets.
I never said WOTC should not try to reduce second market pricing. What I did say is that people should react to these products in a more pragmatic way, rather than just getting upset it does not have all the value they wanted. If you ever played Yu-Gi-Oh you would understand that reprinting can also have a damning effect and such action needs to be tentatively cultivated properly. The reprints in this set may not be abuntand in diversity, but they are high ticket cards that needed a reprint and their individual card value is actually pretty high. You cannot eat your cake and have it too. Either you get abundance in diverse low value (comparatively) or you get scarcity in high value singles.
Something about not every product being intended for every player...
STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
You have been reported.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Thank you. Good to hear a reasonable voice even if you may disagree with me. And the personal attack from said member did nothing but validate my original response.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Fine with me. They already announced a reduction in masters sets. I'm not complaining about that. Hell I've said elsewhere I'm in favor of expanding the reserved list IF DONE PROPERLY. I think the execution is bull*****. You claim the problem we have is with reprint sets? No, the problem is with INEFFECTIVE reprint sets. That adjective is critical in distinguishing between my actual problem and your attempt at a response. Let's be real here, if your motivation is around a single card, then yeah you are in good shape. Th