Thats why its so important that each reprint gets new art, its the exact best moment to do so, and ignoring these chances is a statement that people shouldnt just ignore , it tells you as a customer, we dont even care enough and just make the "cheapest" move possible, and thats just lazy, and lazy shouldnt be rewarded and shouldnt be accepted.
In a vacuum, no one will disgree with you. New art is always welcome. However, art is very expensive. Are you willing to pay 5 dollars for a pack of Core 2019, the extra dollar per pack going to WotC to cover the costs of all the new art?
I don't know if the average consumer would agree with you.
Now, WotC has an entire line of sets whose MSRP is 2.5 times greater than normal - the Masters sets. To me, the packs are not really worth buying because they cost 10 dollars each. If all the cards had new art, I - personally - would be much more willing to crack a few packs!
So, all facts considering... after seeing the challenger decks I want to go find some fireworks to celebrate the first honestly good MtG product that has been released since the Magic Origins Duel Deck. Heck, these strait up blow that duel deck out of the water. Please tell me this means Wizards finally started to listen to people.
Is the only thing Wizards of the Coast has to do to make a "good" product put a bunch of powerful rares in a cheap product? Good business model right there. :|
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Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching.
So, all facts considering... after seeing the challenger decks I want to go find some fireworks to celebrate the first honestly good MtG product that has been released since the Magic Origins Duel Deck. Heck, these strait up blow that duel deck out of the water. Please tell me this means Wizards finally started to listen to people.
Is the only thing Wizards of the Coast has to do to make a "good" product put a bunch of powerful rares in a cheap product? Good business model right there. :|
No, what they did is actually make a playable deck that can be upgraded that isn't worth absolutely nothing. Playsets of usable cards, actual lands, the things that people have been wanting for ages in a pre-con deck so that they actually FUNCTION?! I really don't want to hear your bellyaching, this has been a problem for the last three plus years. Every other game I have played does this. They are the only ones who didn't, and it got so bad that people had to go to the secondary market and online deck listings just to get a starting deck. There are entire youtube channels dedicated to budget standard decks. Not modern, standard.
Now before this goes further, keep in mind the value in these decks is an illusion because the cards they put in them are rotating relatively soon. They are great starting points for anyone who wanted to get into standard and play with Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Hazoret the Fervent, Fatal Push, etc, but these cards are going to drop in value really fast. Also, anything not in the decks are going to go up, so Rekindling Phoenix is probably going to be sticking in the 25 dollar range for a while unless something else comes along. Also Vraska's Contempt is still premium removal, but that card will lose a lot of value once kaladesh->amonkhet rotate and all the hard to kill stuff leaves.
What I'm hoping going forward is that they improve the quality of the removal spells instead of throwing so many different removal spells into standard. They actually caused a situation where there is so much removal the tribal strategies they tried pushing couldn't even survive.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Personally I hate the Mtg art of today.
I like abstract and whimsy you saw on some of the older cards, but most of all I liked the idea of not knowing what the art would be before I opened the pack. It is called variety, and I hear humans rather like it.
Each set should have a loose style to match the theme, sure, I can envisage good reasons for that. Each block? Always the same. Oh look, digital art depicting some guy called Gideon with ludicrous muscles and presumably shrunken genitalia and a failing liver from steroid abuse. I know what the artwork on the next Gideon will be too. The same. Always literal. Generic. Dull. Anodyne. Could you make Mishra's factory winter under the new guidelines? No. It would look like a factory. Some of the most talked about cards in history arose partly from the art. Drew tucker, the Foglios, Rebecca Guay etc. Look at Jones's Stasis. Iconic, debatable, and noteworthy. I see John Avon stuff now and it looks like everyone else's.
Preach brother!
Today's homogenized "art" barely qualifies to be called by the name. I wonder if there is any "joy" when the people commissioned to churn out this stuff actually create it or if its more akin to a McDonalds line worker slapping together a Big Mac.
Just because you do not like the modern art aesthetic, does not mean the art took no time to create, that artists take no joy in what they create or that everyone shares your personal preferences.
Where did I say everyone shares my personal preference? Don't put words in my mouth, bub. I'd ask one of the artists what they think. But I'd ask one that is not currently on the dime of Wizards as you probably won't get an honest answer as current under contract artists want the paycheck. A lot of the current artwork is homogenized, cut and dried, digital media blandness (IN MY OPINION). I never said that it lacks skill or talent. But it lacks a certain heart and soul where JOY comes from. Their talents are being UNDERUTILIZED!!! Give them more room for artistic license and we will see what they can truly create. It could and can be "better".
Those artists put their hearts and souls into their work. You may not like what they create but that does not mean it "barely qualifies to be called [art]" or that their effort is "akin to a McDonalds line worker slapping together a Big Mac."
You don't need to disrespect the artists to say you don't like the art direction.
Again, you are totally misinterpreting my posts. No where did I say that artists aren't talented, skilled or joyless. STOP putting words in my mouth!!! What I am saying is Wizards forces these artists to churn out a product that is homogenized and has to fit in parameters of Wizards choosing. This leads to less than inspired artwork on the artists behalf. When the artistic process is dictated it almost is as if the "art" has crossed over to wrote procedure. Its still art but the artistic and creative process has been subdued. I can't say much more on it than that. I don't know about you but I've worked a myriad of jobs in my life. And yes I've worked at hum drum fast food restaurants where you drone away. If I am asked/dictated to create something I have the talent and skill to do it but doing so in such parameters may take the joy out of the act. Yes I know that is how I function and not all people are that way, but I'd be willing to bet quite a few Magic artists feel as such. On top of that maybe you are selling the McDonald's line worker a bit short as well. You are finding "disrespect" where there is none. Don't take offense at critique. I see your point, I hope you see mine. We need to move along, its more healthy.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I play this game for the game. The art is a secondary concern, and I don't really mind it, especially when compared to art in many other CCGs.
I agree to an extent. I play the game but if there was nothing visual on the card I would quit the game. It is even in its current form superior to the artwork in other CCGs. (IMO)
I'm just advocating better, more varied and more inspired artwork, that's all. Never settle.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I play this game for the game. The art is a secondary concern, and I don't really mind it, especially when compared to art in many other CCGs.
To be frank I'm in the same boat, but that's not to say I think they should have done what they did to the foiling process or made cards worse in quality just so they could print three to four times the amount of bulk commons for draft. The kind of things the executives thought they could get away with in this game is bordering insanity and it was just a waiting game for it to backfire. On top of which they had the entire issue with the sets being pushed too far into the realm of draft only. My own opinion is that they should have cut foils down to just rares and mythics if they needed to cut costs somewhere and just made foil versions of commons via the masters sets, since those commons should at least be the better of the crop.
Also, this is a game where the secondary market is actually a detriment to the experience now. Originally, it kind of served as a dual purpose tool: X card is popular so the sellers put a higher price on it and you'd likely be satisfied buying the card since it can easily slot in somewhere. Instead, what has happened is that people remember a card was good, the sellers keep the price high because they don't want to lose money, that card ends up bubbling to the top of the online store pages due to that price tag, and it pushes other playable cards into the bottom pages.
Then, wizards brilliant plan to solve things on staleness was to hide the data on what the most played decks are and do this strange rotation thing. So not only do players have to figure out if a price tag is due to something from yesteryear on a card, but also figure out if that card is even being played heavily across a lot of decks. If someone isn't tapped into MTG salvation deck building forums and pouring over a lot of deck listings being played, they are going to have a hard time telling which cards are probably worth picking up and which are just high because of other reasons.
Case in point, Lightning Bolt is probably miles safer as a blind purchase than Liliana of the Veil, yet the market says liliana is 50x more important of a card than lightning bolt. As active players we know this is false, but that isn't true to anyone not knee deep into this game.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Valid in every way, but so is the opposite opinion for much the same reasons.
If there was as much variety in the art as on thus thread I would be happy.
I always am astounded at the feedback surveys that WOTC put out. There is always a section to tick referring to enjoying playing the game because of the cool art, but not one for me to tick saying that I actively buy less because of the art, which I do. The art is not the only factor, the underpowered nature of the game now is big and a desire to see guys like Sam 'we are all pleased with how Emrakul turned out' Stoddard get demoted are big factors too. However,the art is pretty symbolic for a data driven approach to the game design and a mechanical approach to organised play that valued newbies over current customers. I long since gave up I have bought two boxes of regular Mtg in 8 years. I used to buy one a set regardless, just for fun. In the mean time the thousands I have made from mtg singles have been turned into a huge variety of older cards with that out of date artwork...
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
As to the art thing, I hope that the reintroduced Core sets allow for wider styles to be utilized. If feels like Khan's was the last set of art I really liked...
Valid in every way, but so is the opposite opinion for much the same reasons.
If there was as much variety in the art as on thus thread I would be happy.
I always am astounded at the feedback surveys that WOTC put out. There is always a section to tick referring to enjoying playing the game because of the cool art, but not one for me to tick saying that I actively buy less because of the art, which I do. The art is not the only factor, the underpowered nature of the game now is big and a desire to see guys like Sam 'we are all pleased with how Emrakul turned out' Stoddard get demoted are big factors too. However,the art is pretty symbolic for a data driven approach to the game design and a mechanical approach to organised play that valued newbies over current customers. I long since gave up I have bought two boxes of regular Mtg in 8 years. I used to buy one a set regardless, just for fun. In the mean time the thousands I have made from mtg singles have been turned into a huge variety of older cards with that out of date artwork...
You don't need a checkbox for that. They have that text box at the end for a reason. I think I've left entire essays in that section explaining every little thing that I think they did good and did poorly every time they do one of these because the survey itself isn't actually enough to fully get the information across. Heck, it takes a combination of reddit, twitter, direct emails, and the survey's to usually get a message to someone over there and even then it can be like blowing smoke signals.
Sweet mercy it took three years to finally have the message sink in and enough evidence falling on their heads they needed to do something. After the complete blood bath the fall was after giving their word things would get better, it seems that nearly destroying the last vestiges of their fandom with iconic masters was enough to get them to do this.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Again, you are totally misinterpreting my posts. No where did I say that artists aren't talented, skilled or joyless. STOP putting words in my mouth!!! What I am saying is Wizards forces these artists to churn out a product that is homogenized and has to fit in parameters of Wizards choosing. This leads to less than inspired artwork on the artists behalf. When the artistic process is dictated it almost is as if the "art" has crossed over to wrote procedure. Its still art but the artistic and creative process has been subdued.
I'm sorry, but I disagree with this view of art entirely. The creative process is often enhanced by adding parameters and constraints, and much of the best art comes from artists being "forced" to work in a context rather than freewheeling.
This may be hard to accept, but I specifically think the "homogenized" art is better. More inspired, more creative, more enjoyable.
Unfortunately, there's nothing Wizards can do to make both of us happy. I'm unhappy when I see a Stasis-like card in a set, you're unhappy when you don't see such cards in a set. So Wizards has to figure out which market segment is larger. I'm willing to bet that they've done that analysis and decided that more people like the kind of art you refer to as "homogenized".
I don´t think new art for reprints is a good thing. I absolutly hate the idea. Why? Because here in europe, you play with all kinds of people, with cards in all kinds of language. I already have trouble if someone plays an obscure "new" card, because i can´t even remember what all the new cards do (job and family don´t leave as much time to play as i used to have). But at least most cards, even as reprints, are recognizable just by the artwork. If that changes from reprint to reprint, i don´t know if everyone can keep up with that. And having to look up every second card at a tournament because you took a break from the game for some months will do no good to anyone i think.
Frankly the majority even in europe still run with english cards, so that problem is already small (at least outside of local game stores).
And even then, we already have a lot of different art for cards, if someone truly wants to play them they can totally do so, even put alternate art on the cards made by themselves.
So it doesnt change anything, other than keeping a problem around to help with a massively smaller issue of the rare breed of stores that actually have multiple languages of cards around.
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Also, in formats like standard, its pretty much a non-issue anyway, as all the NEW cards are still new art regardless.
The real problem arises in older formats, and for them its especially good to have a reason to buy new cards (with just new artwork) to update an existing deck, if you so choose to do that.
If they completely botch an artwork into a different direction its an entirely different issue. But manacost and power/toughness of creatures is still the same and they still have the same abilities, so thats not really that much of an issue at all (much more so with horrible stuff like the Amonkhet Invocations, which look all the same and are completely unreadable mess of cardboard , if you ever had the pleasure to play with someone that has 4 Force of Will, 4 Daze, 4 Spell Pierce of Amonkhet Invocations, its a nightmare).
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In the end, the very best is to get more new cards, do as less reprints as possible, but IF they do, at least provide new artwork so the card isnt just a copy that annoys anyone that already has it.
There has to be at least a tiny reason for players to collect cards of reprints , and same artwork completely destroys this market.
Again, you are totally misinterpreting my posts. No where did I say that artists aren't talented, skilled or joyless. STOP putting words in my mouth!!! What I am saying is Wizards forces these artists to churn out a product that is homogenized and has to fit in parameters of Wizards choosing. This leads to less than inspired artwork on the artists behalf. When the artistic process is dictated it almost is as if the "art" has crossed over to wrote procedure. Its still art but the artistic and creative process has been subdued.
I'm sorry, but I disagree with this view of art entirely. The creative process is often enhanced by adding parameters and constraints, and much of the best art comes from artists being "forced" to work in a context rather than freewheeling.
This may be hard to accept, but I specifically think the "homogenized" art is better. More inspired, more creative, more enjoyable.
Unfortunately, there's nothing Wizards can do to make both of us happy. I'm unhappy when I see a Stasis-like card in a set, you're unhappy when you don't see such cards in a set. So Wizards has to figure out which market segment is larger. I'm willing to bet that they've done that analysis and decided that more people like the kind of art you refer to as "homogenized".
We are going to have to agree to disagree and move on. Yours and my definition of the creative process are exact opposites. I don't need to accept your position or you mine. That's fine. I mentioned a compromise in a post above. Wizards could have certain alternate art cards much like they did in Fallen Empires and more recently in UnStable. You get homogenized I get creative. Win win.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
What does Wizards of the Coast need to do to improve magic the gathering?
Exactly what they are doing: Bring Richard Garfield back from retirement and ask for his help to mend all this mess.
That's just it though, Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro can't keep continuing to rely on Richard Garfield to help bail them out anytime MTG goes through a crisis that threatens to officially discontinue the game in it's entirety. If anything it shows just how incompetent the rest of the company's staff and employees are compared to the one's who got them there in the first place. People who are genuinely passionate about MTG like MaRo and Richard Garfield are only a minority at Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro compared to the majority of the company whose only in it for the money like Chris Cocks.
There's a simple lesson one learns from backing one too many failed big name kickstarter gaming projects: the people who start the game are often the ones who end up sinking it. It's not like they are bad developers, just that the vision they are trying to deliver often isn't possible anymore given forces they are not in control of, or the times people are nostalgic for are not exactly what they seem. Do we want a return to Mercadian Masques? A return to Urza's Saga? Do we really want to relive the original Mirrodin? The point of moving onto a new set is to get past the short comings of the prior times, and sometimes that does require new blood.
This. Anyone who says the current people at Wizards do not have passion for the game does not know what they are talking about. I also suggest reading Generation Decks by Titus Chalk. It does a wonderful job of sketching the early struggles and lessons the company had to go through to sustain their early successes. It's also an informative and entertaining read for anyone who loves the game and wants to know more about the company history behind it.
Thing is that so many of MTG's problems stem directly from Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro's business model of, "We accept no accountability." Got a problem with your shipment? It's the vendor's fault, talk to them about it. Got a problem with the tournament venue? It's not our fault, we don't run the tournaments even though we help sponsor them. A scandal within the Judge Program? We don't run that program, it's not our fault. They "lie" to their consumers by "changing their minds" because they know they're able to get away with it due to how profitable MTG is.
This is what happens when you have a company that hires employees based solely on their political beliefs instead of the merits of their talents and work. As an end result Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro has become a complete joke of incompetence and buck passing. While the idea of the company needing better communication with LGS distributors might seem like a bad idea it's actually a necessity because it helps make people you work with much more positive about what you do. It'd be a step in the right direction for them instead of catering exclusively to big box retailers like Walmart and Target.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
This is what happens when you have a company that hires employees based solely on their political beliefs instead of the merits of their talents and work.
This is what happens when you have a company that hires employees based solely on their political beliefs instead of the merits of their talents and work.
lol sorry but I cannot take you seriously if you actually believe WotC does that. Hilarious.
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
lol sorry but I cannot take you seriously if you actually believe WotC does that. Hilarious.
Cant deny they do that.
Not "solely" of course but its pretty clear (and understandable even) , if someone is in charge to recruit people and they have a strong political idea they just dont want other opinions that would just result in trouble, they really avoid that (easy to check if you look at the Twitter and Social Media of the people in WotC).
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A lot of people would wish they could just ignore all that and focus on the game instead of warping it with all kinds of "real world" influence, but sadly thats just what they decided to do at some point in time and its very unlikely to ever change unless it has a direct impact on sales.
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I personally dislike what they do in that sector and topics, but most of the time i can also just ignore it if i wish to, as my store and playgroups just dont care anyway.
If your store jumps on that bandwagon and you clash with them on "real life" topics it can easily become a real issue for your gaming experience and thats really really annoying, as you would like to keep that away from the game.
(Stretching this topic only leads to angry comments, people claiming the other is lying, has no idea what they are talking about and any discussion just derails right away , which is the sad part what makes it completely impossible to discuss it in any form)
Pretty sure that any political imagery or direction is the indirect result of focus group testing and the personal taste of the artists themselves (after probably several concepts didn't make it past review). Remember that us humans are creatures of habit and slaves to the culture we live in. No one really has to hire someone on the basis of their own political beliefs for political directions, personal tastes, etc, to bubble through. For goodness sakes look at the entire female protagonist movement that occurred over the last few years.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This is what happens when you have a company that hires employees based solely on their political beliefs instead of the merits of their talents and work.
Clarify this please, with linked sources.
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
This is what happens when you have a company that hires employees based solely on their political beliefs instead of the merits of their talents and work.
This is what happens when you have a company that hires employees based solely on their political beliefs instead of the merits of their talents and work.
Clarify this please, with linked sources.
Good luck with that.
What is kind of funny is that if someone actually could furnish proof on this I think that could actually start a lawsuit.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This is what happens when you have a company that hires employees based solely on their political beliefs instead of the merits of their talents and work.
Clarify this please, with linked sources.
Good luck with that.
What is kind of funny is that if someone actually could furnish proof on this I think that could actually start a lawsuit.
I doubt it, there are already business practices that drive hiring practices, its an active thing already, at least in Canada...
This is what happens when you have a company that hires employees based solely on their political beliefs instead of the merits of their talents and work.
Clarify this please, with linked sources.
Good luck with that.
What is kind of funny is that if someone actually could furnish proof on this I think that could actually start a lawsuit.
I doubt it, there are already business practices that drive hiring practices, its an active thing already, at least in Canada...
In the united states being shown favoritism because one is of a certain religion, public organization, or political belief in a fashion that is demonstrable can be used to indicate an act of discrimination against those who do not hold those beliefs, so it is actually a problem on a legal basis. Now does that mean companies don't do it? Well, no, they do it all the time. The key is that they do it discretely or in a way that makes it easy to deny. A good example would be a falling out with a girlfriend who knows ones day job and then does phone calls saying person X did something rude or inconsiderate. Yeah the reason they are really doing this is that they don't like the person because they fell out of a relationship, but the reason presented is not that.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
But the devil is in the details isnt it? They cannot DECLINE due to political leaning or whatever, but if during an interview someone comes across as favouring the type of inclusiveness and diversity that is all the rage in this social media world?
Well, you are hired. :]
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UW Spirits
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In a vacuum, no one will disgree with you. New art is always welcome. However, art is very expensive. Are you willing to pay 5 dollars for a pack of Core 2019, the extra dollar per pack going to WotC to cover the costs of all the new art?
I don't know if the average consumer would agree with you.
Now, WotC has an entire line of sets whose MSRP is 2.5 times greater than normal - the Masters sets. To me, the packs are not really worth buying because they cost 10 dollars each. If all the cards had new art, I - personally - would be much more willing to crack a few packs!
Is the only thing Wizards of the Coast has to do to make a "good" product put a bunch of powerful rares in a cheap product? Good business model right there. :|
No, what they did is actually make a playable deck that can be upgraded that isn't worth absolutely nothing. Playsets of usable cards, actual lands, the things that people have been wanting for ages in a pre-con deck so that they actually FUNCTION?! I really don't want to hear your bellyaching, this has been a problem for the last three plus years. Every other game I have played does this. They are the only ones who didn't, and it got so bad that people had to go to the secondary market and online deck listings just to get a starting deck. There are entire youtube channels dedicated to budget standard decks. Not modern, standard.
Now before this goes further, keep in mind the value in these decks is an illusion because the cards they put in them are rotating relatively soon. They are great starting points for anyone who wanted to get into standard and play with Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Hazoret the Fervent, Fatal Push, etc, but these cards are going to drop in value really fast. Also, anything not in the decks are going to go up, so Rekindling Phoenix is probably going to be sticking in the 25 dollar range for a while unless something else comes along. Also Vraska's Contempt is still premium removal, but that card will lose a lot of value once kaladesh->amonkhet rotate and all the hard to kill stuff leaves.
What I'm hoping going forward is that they improve the quality of the removal spells instead of throwing so many different removal spells into standard. They actually caused a situation where there is so much removal the tribal strategies they tried pushing couldn't even survive.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Again, you are totally misinterpreting my posts. No where did I say that artists aren't talented, skilled or joyless. STOP putting words in my mouth!!! What I am saying is Wizards forces these artists to churn out a product that is homogenized and has to fit in parameters of Wizards choosing. This leads to less than inspired artwork on the artists behalf. When the artistic process is dictated it almost is as if the "art" has crossed over to wrote procedure. Its still art but the artistic and creative process has been subdued. I can't say much more on it than that. I don't know about you but I've worked a myriad of jobs in my life. And yes I've worked at hum drum fast food restaurants where you drone away. If I am asked/dictated to create something I have the talent and skill to do it but doing so in such parameters may take the joy out of the act. Yes I know that is how I function and not all people are that way, but I'd be willing to bet quite a few Magic artists feel as such. On top of that maybe you are selling the McDonald's line worker a bit short as well. You are finding "disrespect" where there is none. Don't take offense at critique. I see your point, I hope you see mine. We need to move along, its more healthy.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I agree to an extent. I play the game but if there was nothing visual on the card I would quit the game. It is even in its current form superior to the artwork in other CCGs. (IMO)
I'm just advocating better, more varied and more inspired artwork, that's all. Never settle.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
To be frank I'm in the same boat, but that's not to say I think they should have done what they did to the foiling process or made cards worse in quality just so they could print three to four times the amount of bulk commons for draft. The kind of things the executives thought they could get away with in this game is bordering insanity and it was just a waiting game for it to backfire. On top of which they had the entire issue with the sets being pushed too far into the realm of draft only. My own opinion is that they should have cut foils down to just rares and mythics if they needed to cut costs somewhere and just made foil versions of commons via the masters sets, since those commons should at least be the better of the crop.
Also, this is a game where the secondary market is actually a detriment to the experience now. Originally, it kind of served as a dual purpose tool: X card is popular so the sellers put a higher price on it and you'd likely be satisfied buying the card since it can easily slot in somewhere. Instead, what has happened is that people remember a card was good, the sellers keep the price high because they don't want to lose money, that card ends up bubbling to the top of the online store pages due to that price tag, and it pushes other playable cards into the bottom pages.
Then, wizards brilliant plan to solve things on staleness was to hide the data on what the most played decks are and do this strange rotation thing. So not only do players have to figure out if a price tag is due to something from yesteryear on a card, but also figure out if that card is even being played heavily across a lot of decks. If someone isn't tapped into MTG salvation deck building forums and pouring over a lot of deck listings being played, they are going to have a hard time telling which cards are probably worth picking up and which are just high because of other reasons.
Case in point, Lightning Bolt is probably miles safer as a blind purchase than Liliana of the Veil, yet the market says liliana is 50x more important of a card than lightning bolt. As active players we know this is false, but that isn't true to anyone not knee deep into this game.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If there was as much variety in the art as on thus thread I would be happy.
I always am astounded at the feedback surveys that WOTC put out. There is always a section to tick referring to enjoying playing the game because of the cool art, but not one for me to tick saying that I actively buy less because of the art, which I do. The art is not the only factor, the underpowered nature of the game now is big and a desire to see guys like Sam 'we are all pleased with how Emrakul turned out' Stoddard get demoted are big factors too. However,the art is pretty symbolic for a data driven approach to the game design and a mechanical approach to organised play that valued newbies over current customers. I long since gave up I have bought two boxes of regular Mtg in 8 years. I used to buy one a set regardless, just for fun. In the mean time the thousands I have made from mtg singles have been turned into a huge variety of older cards with that out of date artwork...
Spirits
You don't need a checkbox for that. They have that text box at the end for a reason. I think I've left entire essays in that section explaining every little thing that I think they did good and did poorly every time they do one of these because the survey itself isn't actually enough to fully get the information across. Heck, it takes a combination of reddit, twitter, direct emails, and the survey's to usually get a message to someone over there and even then it can be like blowing smoke signals.
Sweet mercy it took three years to finally have the message sink in and enough evidence falling on their heads they needed to do something. After the complete blood bath the fall was after giving their word things would get better, it seems that nearly destroying the last vestiges of their fandom with iconic masters was enough to get them to do this.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This may be hard to accept, but I specifically think the "homogenized" art is better. More inspired, more creative, more enjoyable.
Unfortunately, there's nothing Wizards can do to make both of us happy. I'm unhappy when I see a Stasis-like card in a set, you're unhappy when you don't see such cards in a set. So Wizards has to figure out which market segment is larger. I'm willing to bet that they've done that analysis and decided that more people like the kind of art you refer to as "homogenized".
Frankly the majority even in europe still run with english cards, so that problem is already small (at least outside of local game stores).
And even then, we already have a lot of different art for cards, if someone truly wants to play them they can totally do so, even put alternate art on the cards made by themselves.
So it doesnt change anything, other than keeping a problem around to help with a massively smaller issue of the rare breed of stores that actually have multiple languages of cards around.
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Also, in formats like standard, its pretty much a non-issue anyway, as all the NEW cards are still new art regardless.
The real problem arises in older formats, and for them its especially good to have a reason to buy new cards (with just new artwork) to update an existing deck, if you so choose to do that.
If they completely botch an artwork into a different direction its an entirely different issue. But manacost and power/toughness of creatures is still the same and they still have the same abilities, so thats not really that much of an issue at all (much more so with horrible stuff like the Amonkhet Invocations, which look all the same and are completely unreadable mess of cardboard , if you ever had the pleasure to play with someone that has 4 Force of Will, 4 Daze, 4 Spell Pierce of Amonkhet Invocations, its a nightmare).
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In the end, the very best is to get more new cards, do as less reprints as possible, but IF they do, at least provide new artwork so the card isnt just a copy that annoys anyone that already has it.
There has to be at least a tiny reason for players to collect cards of reprints , and same artwork completely destroys this market.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
We are going to have to agree to disagree and move on. Yours and my definition of the creative process are exact opposites. I don't need to accept your position or you mine. That's fine. I mentioned a compromise in a post above. Wizards could have certain alternate art cards much like they did in Fallen Empires and more recently in UnStable. You get homogenized I get creative. Win win.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
This is what happens when you have a company that hires employees based solely on their political beliefs instead of the merits of their talents and work. As an end result Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro has become a complete joke of incompetence and buck passing. While the idea of the company needing better communication with LGS distributors might seem like a bad idea it's actually a necessity because it helps make people you work with much more positive about what you do. It'd be a step in the right direction for them instead of catering exclusively to big box retailers like Walmart and Target.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Pretty sure you are overreaching here, by a lot.
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
Cant deny they do that.
Not "solely" of course but its pretty clear (and understandable even) , if someone is in charge to recruit people and they have a strong political idea they just dont want other opinions that would just result in trouble, they really avoid that (easy to check if you look at the Twitter and Social Media of the people in WotC).
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A lot of people would wish they could just ignore all that and focus on the game instead of warping it with all kinds of "real world" influence, but sadly thats just what they decided to do at some point in time and its very unlikely to ever change unless it has a direct impact on sales.
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I personally dislike what they do in that sector and topics, but most of the time i can also just ignore it if i wish to, as my store and playgroups just dont care anyway.
If your store jumps on that bandwagon and you clash with them on "real life" topics it can easily become a real issue for your gaming experience and thats really really annoying, as you would like to keep that away from the game.
(Stretching this topic only leads to angry comments, people claiming the other is lying, has no idea what they are talking about and any discussion just derails right away , which is the sad part what makes it completely impossible to discuss it in any form)
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
"Be inclusive, and not a dick to others" is not a political view.
Spirits
Art is life itself.
Good luck with that.
Spirits
What is kind of funny is that if someone actually could furnish proof on this I think that could actually start a lawsuit.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I doubt it, there are already business practices that drive hiring practices, its an active thing already, at least in Canada...
Spirits
In the united states being shown favoritism because one is of a certain religion, public organization, or political belief in a fashion that is demonstrable can be used to indicate an act of discrimination against those who do not hold those beliefs, so it is actually a problem on a legal basis. Now does that mean companies don't do it? Well, no, they do it all the time. The key is that they do it discretely or in a way that makes it easy to deny. A good example would be a falling out with a girlfriend who knows ones day job and then does phone calls saying person X did something rude or inconsiderate. Yeah the reason they are really doing this is that they don't like the person because they fell out of a relationship, but the reason presented is not that.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, you are hired. :]
Spirits