I travel a lot for work, from Chile to Canada, and I have never had or witnessed a problem at a LGS other than certain people's body odor.
...
You may start believing they're talking about you and chastising you for just being there and not being a neon-haired shrieking harpy that spouts cultural-marxism as dogma (which I have witnessed, unlike the batlant sexism and harassment).
Foot shot. Well done.
I've been to many stores in the Montreal area and I know for a fact there is a strong bro mentality in many places. It's not *meant* as sexism and harassment, but it still is unwelcoming.
It's easy to be blind when you too used to it and it's just the norm.
EDIT:
The only people who claim anyone is justifying harassment are the ones putting words on other people's mouths so they can silence dissenting opinions. Pretending Jeremy didn't target Christine purposedly and knowing the left's usual ham-handed white knighting would make his channel explode in views is being intellectually dishonest for the sake of stifling possible discussion about the far-left's cult-like antics being not only harassment in themselves, but ineffective and only serving to exacerbate problems which affects us all.
You realize you're the one who labels people "far-left" out of nowhere right?
You realize that harassing people for viewership doesn't make it right? What's to discuss? His performance? The chart of his viewership? Why would we care his ulterior motive? It's unacceptable anyway.
Also, again, being against harassment is not far-left and it's not antic and denouncing those who do it, even if only as provocateur, is not harassment.
Like the mods said in the first page, equating Jeremy behaviour and the fury of people outrage by his behaviour is *not* equivalent. I suggest you think about that for a while.
Oh my god. People brought up other topics because they are related to harassment in MTG. Sprankle brought it up because he was calling her a sl*t. There was no stirring up drama, it was an accumulation. People have been blowing this up because it's an extreme example of sexism and harassment in the community that has been going on for a very long time. Jus because you've never seen someone harassed at events doesn't mean they aren't, and who are you to say that magic just doesn't appeal to women? You even said in the beginning of your post that you had no idea who these people were. Get your facts straight before making snap judgements, because there was a ton of evidence about Jeremy harassing Sprankle. Get your facts straight, and then get out with your harassment support before you get banned.
You realize you're the one who labels people "far-left" out of nowhere right?
You realize that harassing people for viewership doesn't make it right? What's to discuss? His performance? The chart of his viewership? Why would we care his ulterior motive? It's unacceptable anyway.
Also, again, being against harassment is not far-left and it's not antic and denouncing those who do it, even if only as provocateur, is not harassment.
Like the mods said in the first page, equating Jeremy behaviour and the fury of people outrage by his behaviour is *not* equivalent. I suggest you think about that for a while.
I call it what it is, organizing character-assassination internet lynch mobs is 9/10 times a far-left thing to do. And I seem to be the only one who thinks Jeremy is a miserable ******** who doesn't desserve to be listened to because you people who seem to be so upset about his antics keep giving him views and making it easier for him to get increased popularity and patronage, while at the same time claiming I'm the one who says he's right.
If you want to harass him, go do so, but don't pretend you're not helping a vile person continue to be vile just because you wanted the chance to be vile at a permitted target yourselves. If you went to write stupid ***** on his youtube or twitter instead of reporting him to Patreon, you're part of the problem.
Oh my god. People brought up other topics because they are related to harassment in MTG. Sprankle brought it up because he was calling her a sl*t. There was no stirring up drama, it was an accumulation. People have been blowing this up because it's an extreme example of sexism and harassment in the community that has been going on for a very long time. Jus because you've never seen someone harassed at events doesn't mean they aren't, and who are you to say that magic just doesn't appeal to women? You even said in the beginning of your post that you had no idea who these people were. Get your facts straight before making snap judgements, because there was a ton of evidence about Jeremy harassing Sprankle. Get your facts straight, and then get out with your harassment support before you get banned.
Extreme harrassement and sexism? You are ridiculous.
As for the second part, sure. Call me when women become a big part of mtg. Oh wait, I forgot. It won't happen because they are turned off by all the rampant misoginy and sexism in the community.
On the topic of calling out harassment where it exists in the community, I've seen a petition made which aims to feed back to Patreon with a chunk of evidence of Jeremy's behaviours, and effectively 'de-fund the hate'.
I think as a balanced response to his behaviour, this is probably where we want to be? It's not fighting hate with hate, it's not yet another personal, demeaning attack. It's just passing on evidence of his misdeeds to the organisation who facilitates him profiting off all of this. If Patreon considers his behaviour wrongful (I sincerely hope they do) then he'll have got a strong message from the community without anyone actually throwing an insult or threat back at him, which is positive.
The proper course of action should have been Christine suing Jeremy for damages, not the public going after Jeremy for her and the rest of the MTG youtube community blowing up and turning this into a grand social mudslinging contest that got even WoTC and potentially any company hosting sponsorships involved.
That's nice in theory, but do you know why very few people pursue lawsuits over these things in practice? Whether its slander, harassment, and other behaviors?
1) Its expensive, and the damages are often too small to actually pay for the lawyers fees. Assuming that you even win the lawsuit.
2) It takes a lot of time and effort. The time part is partially by design to ensure thoroughness, but it can mean that by the time a problem has been resolved its no longer relevant anymore. Sometimes the person bringing up the lawsuit can even go bankrupt, oftentimes because of the very thing they are suing for. And given the low payout, the effort is often not worth the time and money unless you are rich to begin with.
3) Courtroom drama can cause more harm while the case is being heard. In fact, that is why some forms of abuse and harassment are criminal matters in the first place, while the other reason is because of the sheer degree of harm. Also, any time threats of violence or incitement to violence happens the authorities can and will treat it as a criminal matter.
Meanwhile, public shaming and other action has an immediate effect, it has the power to enforce norms that are beyond the powers of the court by design (there is a threshold to the level of dickery we want the government to step in and stop), and it protects those who can't afford to take things to court or lack the mental and emotional energy to do so. That's why companies like Patreon have terms of service, and the ability to enforce them should a problem be brought to their attention. I haven't looked at Patreon's TOS, so I don't know whether they will take action, but I do not see anything improper with people bringing it up with them and asking if they can do something about Jeremy. That's precisely the kind of thing Wizards itself has asked us to do about abuse on social media. The only difference being that on Patreon, money is involved. But then, the same is true in court.
If Jeremy refuses to settle with her and it went to court he'd be hurting himself more than Christine. There are already legal cases that set due precedent and I'm going to disagree on the costs. Jeremy would likely be paying both his and her court fees.
The primary reason she may not do it is she never did it before and doesn't know how to start the case. Fear of the unknown is often a factor in these things.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Oh my god. People brought up other topics because they are related to harassment in MTG. Sprankle brought it up because he was calling her a sl*t. There was no stirring up drama, it was an accumulation. People have been blowing this up because it's an extreme example of sexism and harassment in the community that has been going on for a very long time. Jus because you've never seen someone harassed at events doesn't mean they aren't, and who are you to say that magic just doesn't appeal to women? You even said in the beginning of your post that you had no idea who these people were. Get your facts straight before making snap judgements, because there was a ton of evidence about Jeremy harassing Sprankle. Get your facts straight, and then get out with your harassment support before you get banned.
Extreme harrassement and sexism? You are ridiculous.
As for the second part, sure. Call me when women become a big part of mtg. Oh wait, I forgot. It won't happen because they are turned off by all the rampant misoginy and sexism in the community.
To me at least Magic has always been the island of misfit toys, and guys or gals in a group of a majority being one gender might not realize that they are talking like they wouldn't in the other genders presence, and that can be uncomfortable. But at the same time people are going to be socially awkward and other people shouldn't use that as a bludgeon on each other. Also people need to be mindful of confirmation bias, people remember 1 bad experience out of a hundred good ones and they often attribute to malice what could be attributed to stupidity.
The problem is once an issue becomes partisan there is no room for nuanced discussion, and Wizards, Reddit and even MTGSalvation play right into that and give this dude what he wants. It makes him look like the one standing up against leftist, and the heavier the hand the more it makes him look justified.
Which I think is a shame, maybe Wizards really wants to cultivate an audience of people that look different but all think exactly the same.
This isn't 100% relevant to the topic at hand, but I think this video is worth watching for anyone who feels Sprankle was using cosplay as a sleazy cash grab or whatever. It seems like she puts a lot of time and effort (and technical skill) into the costumes, it's not just a matter of going to value village and throwing something together.
Personally I don't really care much about cosplay - it's kind of cool to see at GPs but it's just window dressing as far as I'm concerned. But it's worth recognizing that the people doing it seem to really care about it. Food for thought.
If Jeremy refuses to settle with her and it went to court he'd be hurting himself more than Christine. There are already legal cases that set due precedent and I'm going to disagree on the costs. Jeremy would likely be paying both his and her court fees.
The primary reason she may not do it is she never did it before and doesn't know how to start the case. Fear of the unknown is often a factor in these things.
I honestly find it patently ridiculous that anybody thinks that Jeremy has a case against Sprankle at all, particularly for Defemation. Defamation (in this case Libel) requires the person to make a statement that is untrue, and cause damages to be incurred because of it. The fundamental problem is that there is a good deal of evidence that Jeremy has been harassing Sprankle, up to and after Sprankle made her announcement.
From November 16th, for instance, he made an unprovoked tweet about her, deriding her appearance, and involving her (by name, no less) in his arguments surrounding why Spike being female was bad; there was really no reason he had to dig Sprankle into this, and there was no impetus for it.
He seems to have a very big personal problem with Sprankle, and is more than will to make it very public, even though there appears to be no impetus for it. While it may not seem like the biggest deal, the severity doesn't particularly matter here. He made unprovoked statements that derided and harassed her under any reasonable definition of the word. It is not enough for her to do anything to him, but it is certainly enough to indicate that her statement was not a total fabrication as he has claimed and discredits his claim that the only time he said anything about her was 6 months ago in one video (which is demonstrably untrue).
Couple that with what he said in the past, the videos he put out, and his actions and statements after about her (Calling her a prostitute, ****, drama-queen, etc.), and he has more or less torpedo'd any chance in hell he has of convincing a sane court that Christine was lying when she put out her statement as to why she was leaving. Part of defamation, as I said, is that the person is making it up. Unfortunately for Jeremy, he seems to have had a long-standing problem with Sprankle, which he has vocalized recently in derogatory manners on his public platforms. It certainly does not help him any further that Christine has remained rather quiet since her statement, and has not been leading the efforts at all to have him removed.
The second problem with defamation cases is that unless you can prove that the person was acting maliciously, you are pretty much relegated to the realm of actual empirical damages that have stemmed from the statement. Lost wages, lost revenue, etc. Just having your character damaged isn't enough to sue for libel if there were no actual real-world damages incurred. The problem is, one could argue that this mess has actually *helped* him, as he has seen viewer-spikes and seems to be gaining subscribers (Although he had a minor drop early on).
Jeremy has honestly done no favors for himself with his tactics and style, and if he is dumb enough to try and bring this to court he is going to learn a very harsh lesson that being an edgelord and ****lord does have consequences. In this case, he would likely go bankrupt trying to win a case he will inevitably lose, and likely be forced to pay for Christine's court costs in the process. There is a very good reason why corporations push everything through a legal team before making a statement, and why Lawyers advise their clients to not comment on a case they are involved in until the suit is over.
If Jeremy refuses to settle with her and it went to court he'd be hurting himself more than Christine. There are already legal cases that set due precedent and I'm going to disagree on the costs. Jeremy would likely be paying both his and her court fees.
The primary reason she may not do it is she never did it before and doesn't know how to start the case. Fear of the unknown is often a factor in these things.
You are assuming that she would win. I am skeptical, and its not unlikely that even if it crossed her mind, she is too. You have to prove damages to the court before they can do anything about it, and that's where it becomes possible for her to lose the case. But besides that, taking it to court is stressful, and stress is exactly what people who have been harassed and abused don't want to go through anymore.
Besides, its not just Sprankle who has been harassed. TCC pointed out multiple people including himself that have been on the receiving end of Unsleeved Media's bullying. Making it a community discussion would be necessary regardless of how Sprankle chose to handle the situation, and people would still likely be talking to Patreon if they thought he had violated their TOS. It is their right to do so. The only thing that would be different is that Jeremy would likely have a lawyer telling him to keep his mouth shut rather than going into a paranoid meltdown as has happened in this timeline.
I honestly find it patently ridiculous that anybody thinks that Jeremy has a case against Sprankle at all, particularly for Defemation. Defamation (in this case Libel) requires the person to make a statement that is untrue, and cause damages to be incurred because of it. The fundamental problem is that there is a good deal of evidence that Jeremy has been harassing Sprankle, up to and after Sprankle made her announcement.
To be clear, nobody has suggested that Jeremy has a case, and as far as I know none of the relevant parties have suggested that they plan to take things to court. The question is whether it would be worth if for Sprankle to file a case against him, regardless of whether she could win it or not. Filing a case in court is always risky, and that's why I think it had not crossed her mind to do so. You give the reason why in your post-- damage to one's character isn't enough to win a defamation case.
people would still likely be talking to Patreon if they thought he had violated their TOS. It is their right to do so.
And the right thing to do too.
Not mob rule witch hunts, not leaving everything in Christine's hand to flip a coin at court, just making it clear to Patreon that this person has built a feedback loop of hatred and self-victimization that is being funded through their platform and most probably breaks their TOS.
I honestly find it patently ridiculous that anybody thinks that Jeremy has a case against Sprankle at all, particularly for Defemation. Defamation (in this case Libel) requires the person to make a statement that is untrue, and cause damages to be incurred because of it. The fundamental problem is that there is a good deal of evidence that Jeremy has been harassing Sprankle, up to and after Sprankle made her announcement.
To be clear, nobody has suggested that Jeremy has a case, and as far as I know none of the relevant parties have suggested that they plan to take things to court. The question is whether it would be worth if for Sprankle to file a case against him, regardless of whether she could win it or not. Filing a case in court is always risky, and that's why I think it had not crossed her mind to do so. You give the reason why in your post-- damage to one's character isn't enough to win a defamation case.
I honestly find it patently ridiculous that anybody thinks that Jeremy has a case against Sprankle at all, particularly for Defemation. Defamation (in this case Libel) requires the person to make a statement that is untrue, and cause damages to be incurred because of it. The fundamental problem is that there is a good deal of evidence that Jeremy has been harassing Sprankle, up to and after Sprankle made her announcement.
To be clear, nobody has suggested that Jeremy has a case, and as far as I know none of the relevant parties have suggested that they plan to take things to court. The question is whether it would be worth if for Sprankle to file a case against him, regardless of whether she could win it or not. Filing a case in court is always risky, and that's why I think it had not crossed her mind to do so. You give the reason why in your post-- damage to one's character isn't enough to win a defamation case.
Ah, thought this was in reference to Jeremy talking about suing Sprankle for defamation, which he has actually has fielded.
Oh my god. People brought up other topics because they are related to harassment in MTG. Sprankle brought it up because he was calling her a sl*t.
did he ever call her a **** or are you just using your own word? i ask because if he never used the word **** you would be effectively slandering him. furthermore someone who isnt fully caught up on what is going on can see your post, assume that it is the truth, and tell others that jeremy called her a **** which wouldnt be true.
Not for Magic the Gathering from the sounds of it. I didn't think she was quiting the entire cosplay business, just she wants to get away from the toxic crowd that was giving her grief.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Ah, thought this was in reference to Jeremy talking about suing Sprankle for defamation, which he has actually has fielded.
Carry on.
I did not know he had actually considered it. Its a shame to hear he is, as its the only reason I can imagine she would (counter)sue. I mean, all the reasons I think it would be unprofitable for her to sue do still apply to him, as well. I can't imagine a lawsuit doing any good for either of them.
so does that mean it really was always about the money?
Yes and no.
Celebrities experience enormous ammounts of stress from people (both benign and ill-intentioned) wanting their attention. But they are still people who desire privacy. A lot of the time wether you continue growing your career or take a break from it has to do with wether or not you can afford to delegate your social management and pay a therapist to disassociate from public life.
Imagine Christine as an elite quarterback that kept getting hit because her team couldn't pay for an effective offensive line so she moved to another team.
MtG, both the fanbase and WotC, doesn't (economically) appreciate their content creators enough. Defunding people like Jeremy and creating a safety net for victims of harassment and other negative behaviors is just the very tip of the iceberg of what needs to be done for us to have a healthy and productive community.
Not really much to add to the discussion. Any form of harassment and bullying is horrendous and should be dealt with by the proper people, be they WotC, YouTube, and/or the authorities.
Also, not entirely unrelated. Jeremy is in violation of YouTube's community policy regarding hate speech as outlined here and he can be banned from the site because of it. He may be able to delete the videos so they can't be seen, but google saves everything.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
If the gender roles were reversed, none of this would be happening.
Maybe. However, I've seen a case of female reviewer discriminating on fan service animes and their audience calling them losers and other unsavory comments, also double down after initial criticism. It escalate a bit as well, but at least the end result was she stopped making reviews. She already was a bit infamous for having unorthodox views on popular topics in otaku culture (including cosplay) that were divisive. At least to that session of YouTube anime community this was a win because she was toxic.
I imagine that a female YTber saying unsavory stuff from a male cosplayer and not apologizing would also attract criticisms. However, maybe it wouldn't escalate into extreme mob A vs extreme mob B.
If the gender roles were reversed, none of this would be happening.
Impossible to say. Also, utterly meaningless to bring up in this conversation.
Jeremy seriously made his own bed, and is a self-proclaimed edgelord who does and says things to offend people, on purpose. He is hardly a victim of some great conspiracy against him by SJWs. If anything, it's surprising it took this long for it to blow up on him. Contrary to what you may think, sometimes people deserve what comes to them. This isn't a crusade against a haplass individual who accidentally said something off-color. This is somebody who has a serious hate-on for Sprankle, and contrary to what he and his supporters say has made derogatory unprovoked remarks about her over a sustained period of time, up to and including when this whole thing blew up.
He has nobody to blame but himself that people don't want anything to do with him, and his constant blathering about being a victim is hollow. As I said before, Eric Cartman is not a laudable personality, and people should not be rewarded for being Eric Cartman. Eric Cartman deserves all of the derision he gets for being Eric Cartman, and yes that includes punishment if his Cartmanning goes too long and causes too many problems. He needs to grow up, act like an adult, stop being an edgelord, and stop obsessing about imagined slights. The world doesn't owe him anything, and the reason why the larger community wants nothing to do with him has nothing to do with politics, but rather because he is a downright miserable human being. Of course they don't want to hang around him or support him. It's downright childish to think that they even should.
He whinges and moans about how Wizards won't invite him to the Community Cup or give him previews, or blacklist him from being listed as a content creator on their site. Any half-sane person would see that he flipped WotC off in a video he made, jokes about rape, used an image proclaiming Rosewater is a pedophile and sexual predator for a video, insults their employees by name, and constantly screams and bemoans how Wizards is destroying Magic. In what sane world would a corporation even acknowledge said person, let alone in a positive light?
Foot shot. Well done.
I've been to many stores in the Montreal area and I know for a fact there is a strong bro mentality in many places. It's not *meant* as sexism and harassment, but it still is unwelcoming.
It's easy to be blind when you too used to it and it's just the norm.
EDIT:
You realize you're the one who labels people "far-left" out of nowhere right?
You realize that harassing people for viewership doesn't make it right? What's to discuss? His performance? The chart of his viewership? Why would we care his ulterior motive? It's unacceptable anyway.
Also, again, being against harassment is not far-left and it's not antic and denouncing those who do it, even if only as provocateur, is not harassment.
Like the mods said in the first page, equating Jeremy behaviour and the fury of people outrage by his behaviour is *not* equivalent. I suggest you think about that for a while.
So why do you think people might see it as a political thing?
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
I call it what it is, organizing character-assassination internet lynch mobs is 9/10 times a far-left thing to do. And I seem to be the only one who thinks Jeremy is a miserable ******** who doesn't desserve to be listened to because you people who seem to be so upset about his antics keep giving him views and making it easier for him to get increased popularity and patronage, while at the same time claiming I'm the one who says he's right.
If you want to harass him, go do so, but don't pretend you're not helping a vile person continue to be vile just because you wanted the chance to be vile at a permitted target yourselves. If you went to write stupid ***** on his youtube or twitter instead of reporting him to Patreon, you're part of the problem.
Extreme harrassement and sexism? You are ridiculous.
As for the second part, sure. Call me when women become a big part of mtg. Oh wait, I forgot. It won't happen because they are turned off by all the rampant misoginy and sexism in the community.
If Jeremy refuses to settle with her and it went to court he'd be hurting himself more than Christine. There are already legal cases that set due precedent and I'm going to disagree on the costs. Jeremy would likely be paying both his and her court fees.
The primary reason she may not do it is she never did it before and doesn't know how to start the case. Fear of the unknown is often a factor in these things.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
To me at least Magic has always been the island of misfit toys, and guys or gals in a group of a majority being one gender might not realize that they are talking like they wouldn't in the other genders presence, and that can be uncomfortable. But at the same time people are going to be socially awkward and other people shouldn't use that as a bludgeon on each other. Also people need to be mindful of confirmation bias, people remember 1 bad experience out of a hundred good ones and they often attribute to malice what could be attributed to stupidity.
The problem is once an issue becomes partisan there is no room for nuanced discussion, and Wizards, Reddit and even MTGSalvation play right into that and give this dude what he wants. It makes him look like the one standing up against leftist, and the heavier the hand the more it makes him look justified.
Which I think is a shame, maybe Wizards really wants to cultivate an audience of people that look different but all think exactly the same.
Personally I don't really care much about cosplay - it's kind of cool to see at GPs but it's just window dressing as far as I'm concerned. But it's worth recognizing that the people doing it seem to really care about it. Food for thought.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I honestly find it patently ridiculous that anybody thinks that Jeremy has a case against Sprankle at all, particularly for Defemation. Defamation (in this case Libel) requires the person to make a statement that is untrue, and cause damages to be incurred because of it. The fundamental problem is that there is a good deal of evidence that Jeremy has been harassing Sprankle, up to and after Sprankle made her announcement.
From November 16th, for instance, he made an unprovoked tweet about her, deriding her appearance, and involving her (by name, no less) in his arguments surrounding why Spike being female was bad; there was really no reason he had to dig Sprankle into this, and there was no impetus for it.
https://twitter.com/mtgheadquarters/status/931189044905742338
He also derided her for appearing at Grand Prix, once again unprovoked:
https://twitter.com/UnsleevedMedia/status/928005024474681345
He seems to have a very big personal problem with Sprankle, and is more than will to make it very public, even though there appears to be no impetus for it. While it may not seem like the biggest deal, the severity doesn't particularly matter here. He made unprovoked statements that derided and harassed her under any reasonable definition of the word. It is not enough for her to do anything to him, but it is certainly enough to indicate that her statement was not a total fabrication as he has claimed and discredits his claim that the only time he said anything about her was 6 months ago in one video (which is demonstrably untrue).
Couple that with what he said in the past, the videos he put out, and his actions and statements after about her (Calling her a prostitute, ****, drama-queen, etc.), and he has more or less torpedo'd any chance in hell he has of convincing a sane court that Christine was lying when she put out her statement as to why she was leaving. Part of defamation, as I said, is that the person is making it up. Unfortunately for Jeremy, he seems to have had a long-standing problem with Sprankle, which he has vocalized recently in derogatory manners on his public platforms. It certainly does not help him any further that Christine has remained rather quiet since her statement, and has not been leading the efforts at all to have him removed.
The second problem with defamation cases is that unless you can prove that the person was acting maliciously, you are pretty much relegated to the realm of actual empirical damages that have stemmed from the statement. Lost wages, lost revenue, etc. Just having your character damaged isn't enough to sue for libel if there were no actual real-world damages incurred. The problem is, one could argue that this mess has actually *helped* him, as he has seen viewer-spikes and seems to be gaining subscribers (Although he had a minor drop early on).
Jeremy has honestly done no favors for himself with his tactics and style, and if he is dumb enough to try and bring this to court he is going to learn a very harsh lesson that being an edgelord and ****lord does have consequences. In this case, he would likely go bankrupt trying to win a case he will inevitably lose, and likely be forced to pay for Christine's court costs in the process. There is a very good reason why corporations push everything through a legal team before making a statement, and why Lawyers advise their clients to not comment on a case they are involved in until the suit is over.
You are assuming that she would win. I am skeptical, and its not unlikely that even if it crossed her mind, she is too. You have to prove damages to the court before they can do anything about it, and that's where it becomes possible for her to lose the case. But besides that, taking it to court is stressful, and stress is exactly what people who have been harassed and abused don't want to go through anymore.
Besides, its not just Sprankle who has been harassed. TCC pointed out multiple people including himself that have been on the receiving end of Unsleeved Media's bullying. Making it a community discussion would be necessary regardless of how Sprankle chose to handle the situation, and people would still likely be talking to Patreon if they thought he had violated their TOS. It is their right to do so. The only thing that would be different is that Jeremy would likely have a lawyer telling him to keep his mouth shut rather than going into a paranoid meltdown as has happened in this timeline.
To be clear, nobody has suggested that Jeremy has a case, and as far as I know none of the relevant parties have suggested that they plan to take things to court. The question is whether it would be worth if for Sprankle to file a case against him, regardless of whether she could win it or not. Filing a case in court is always risky, and that's why I think it had not crossed her mind to do so. You give the reason why in your post-- damage to one's character isn't enough to win a defamation case.
Not mob rule witch hunts, not leaving everything in Christine's hand to flip a coin at court, just making it clear to Patreon that this person has built a feedback loop of hatred and self-victimization that is being funded through their platform and most probably breaks their TOS.
Ah, thought this was in reference to Jeremy talking about suing Sprankle for defamation, which he has actually has fielded.
Carry on.
did he ever call her a **** or are you just using your own word? i ask because if he never used the word **** you would be effectively slandering him. furthermore someone who isnt fully caught up on what is going on can see your post, assume that it is the truth, and tell others that jeremy called her a **** which wouldnt be true.
so does that mean it really was always about the money?
Not for Magic the Gathering from the sounds of it. I didn't think she was quiting the entire cosplay business, just she wants to get away from the toxic crowd that was giving her grief.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I did not know he had actually considered it. Its a shame to hear he is, as its the only reason I can imagine she would (counter)sue. I mean, all the reasons I think it would be unprofitable for her to sue do still apply to him, as well. I can't imagine a lawsuit doing any good for either of them.
Celebrities experience enormous ammounts of stress from people (both benign and ill-intentioned) wanting their attention. But they are still people who desire privacy. A lot of the time wether you continue growing your career or take a break from it has to do with wether or not you can afford to delegate your social management and pay a therapist to disassociate from public life.
Imagine Christine as an elite quarterback that kept getting hit because her team couldn't pay for an effective offensive line so she moved to another team.
MtG, both the fanbase and WotC, doesn't (economically) appreciate their content creators enough. Defunding people like Jeremy and creating a safety net for victims of harassment and other negative behaviors is just the very tip of the iceberg of what needs to be done for us to have a healthy and productive community.
Also, not entirely unrelated. Jeremy is in violation of YouTube's community policy regarding hate speech as outlined here and he can be banned from the site because of it. He may be able to delete the videos so they can't be seen, but google saves everything.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Maybe. However, I've seen a case of female reviewer discriminating on fan service animes and their audience calling them losers and other unsavory comments, also double down after initial criticism. It escalate a bit as well, but at least the end result was she stopped making reviews. She already was a bit infamous for having unorthodox views on popular topics in otaku culture (including cosplay) that were divisive. At least to that session of YouTube anime community this was a win because she was toxic.
I imagine that a female YTber saying unsavory stuff from a male cosplayer and not apologizing would also attract criticisms. However, maybe it wouldn't escalate into extreme mob A vs extreme mob B.
Impossible to say. Also, utterly meaningless to bring up in this conversation.
Jeremy seriously made his own bed, and is a self-proclaimed edgelord who does and says things to offend people, on purpose. He is hardly a victim of some great conspiracy against him by SJWs. If anything, it's surprising it took this long for it to blow up on him. Contrary to what you may think, sometimes people deserve what comes to them. This isn't a crusade against a haplass individual who accidentally said something off-color. This is somebody who has a serious hate-on for Sprankle, and contrary to what he and his supporters say has made derogatory unprovoked remarks about her over a sustained period of time, up to and including when this whole thing blew up.
He has nobody to blame but himself that people don't want anything to do with him, and his constant blathering about being a victim is hollow. As I said before, Eric Cartman is not a laudable personality, and people should not be rewarded for being Eric Cartman. Eric Cartman deserves all of the derision he gets for being Eric Cartman, and yes that includes punishment if his Cartmanning goes too long and causes too many problems. He needs to grow up, act like an adult, stop being an edgelord, and stop obsessing about imagined slights. The world doesn't owe him anything, and the reason why the larger community wants nothing to do with him has nothing to do with politics, but rather because he is a downright miserable human being. Of course they don't want to hang around him or support him. It's downright childish to think that they even should.
He whinges and moans about how Wizards won't invite him to the Community Cup or give him previews, or blacklist him from being listed as a content creator on their site. Any half-sane person would see that he flipped WotC off in a video he made, jokes about rape, used an image proclaiming Rosewater is a pedophile and sexual predator for a video, insults their employees by name, and constantly screams and bemoans how Wizards is destroying Magic. In what sane world would a corporation even acknowledge said person, let alone in a positive light?