Noting the price impact over the pat few years of reprints we seem to have a set pattern.
Reprints in std legal sets - cards massively reduce in price- (mindcensor, allied fetches, thoughtseize)
Reprints in conspiracy - massive reductions (show and tell, berserk)
Reprints in FTV - some reasonable reductions (eg Jace), others less of an impact (eg Grove)
Reprints in commander - some reasonable price reductions, although very few high end cards have been reprinted
Reprints in masters sets- 10-20% price drops max (Fetches in MM17), some notable cards no change or even increases (Goyf), odd and narrow cards drop a long way e.g. Sinkhole where the demand was relatively low.
Legacy cards tend to fall a bit more than Modern ones.
Masters sets are fine in themselves, the price tag is probably 50% higher than it should be, certainly in the UK and Europe.
It seems to me that if sales of masters sets dropped we could get Wizards to reduce the price tag to something more reasonable (say £6 a booster not £10), or get printing reprints in sets like Conspiracy or Commander where the price drops a fair way without tanking totally. I am not in favour of enormous reprinting en masse, I am, however, annoyed that we can't get enemy fetches anywhere near the right level. More expensive than allied ones is fine, 3-4 times the price is not.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Good luck trying to organize a boycott. Keep in mind that the stores that sell Modern Masters products would be hit far earlier and far harder than the company itself, so you might want to find stores that are willing to not sell Masters products in addition to players not willing to buy them. It would also be more effective if the people who participate are otherwise the kind who buy a lot of sealed product or play a lot of limited. A boycott composed of people who only buy singles or don't spend much at all on the game wouldn't be that effective.
I think what the OP is trying to point out is that reprint products shouldn't have a premium price and that $10 boosters keep more boxes on shelves and not in people's hands as opposed to a lower MSRP, which getting the cards into more people's hands is the entire point of reprint products...Removing Core sets took away the big place we got to see reprints at reasonable prices.
Most expensive cards of the format (Modern) in the best draft format ever in the game, and you think you can start a boycott? This is laughable at best.
I know people that saved money for months just to get cases and draft as much as possible. Good luck trying to get those people to stop buying probably the best product they put out a year.
They need to drop the MSRP on modern masters to 99 usd and do larger print runs. That's basically all I got on this subject because the modern "support" is pretty awful from Wizards.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
They need to drop the MSRP on modern masters to 99 usd and do larger print runs. That's basically all I got on this subject because the modern "support" is pretty awful from Wizards.
When you figure its better then any other older/eternal format they ever sanctioned, I would say its pretty good.
They need to drop the MSRP on modern masters to 99 usd and do larger print runs. That's basically all I got on this subject because the modern "support" is pretty awful from Wizards.
When you figure its better then any other older/eternal format they ever sanctioned, I would say its pretty good.
Well, we can say feeding someone who is starving cold grits to be fighting hunger, but that isn't the same as restoring farmland and improving infrastructure so the people aren't starving in the first place.
Wizards is throwing out cash grabs, they aren't genuinely supporting modern as they should be doing and right now the support for modern tournament play is nearly all third party. I see hope in the future for change given the horrible standard environment the last few years, so it's a wait and see.
I do understand that the designers and developers have a certain vision they want to take MtG in the future, but a lot of people playing magic now or are returning to the game are looking to the past. They want to play the sets of yesteryear and are finding a market that is just hostile to the consumer.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
EMA and MM sets are really just meant to take advantage of secondary card price spikes. Standard sells packs, therefore it gets the most focus. Boycotting the system would only keep prices of modern/legacy cards high and rising. Higher print runs and lower MSRP are the way to go IMO (partly as Colt47 was eluding to)
EMA and MM sets are really just meant to take advantage of secondary card price spikes. Standard sells packs, therefore it gets the most focus. Boycotting the system would only keep prices of modern/legacy cards high and rising. Higher print runs and lower MSRP are the way to go IMO (partly as Colt47 was eluding to)
I'm hoping we will start to see this in the future. I'm banking on the leaked questionnaire asking about what to name a core set as a sign for more reprints in normally priced booster boxes.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Sadly, I don't think boycott would be successful since too many people are drooling for the cards in these sets. However, I hate these 10 dollar packs, but then again most the time I don't need the cards in them. I see it as exploiting new players to gamble with their money. I have seen players buy like 6 six of theses master packs and walk away with only 10 to 20 dollars worth cards far to often. I always think to myself: "Why do they buy these things?" Those six pack could have just bought the fetch you have been complaining about buying.
Further you have players who watch someone get lucky, and then proceed to push their luck to only get burned. I have seen this happen too much for my taste. I feel it's exploitative. I do see that it makes LGS money, but still there has to be a better way.
If I do need a card. I only need one or two cards. Like MM17 I had most the money cards already. I have all the fetches, goyfs, lilianas, snap casters, goblin guides. I think the only card worth something that I didn't have was Linvala, Keeper of Silence, but I see it as mainly an EDH card so I never wanted it. I did trade my Damnations a way a while ago for Karns for building tron. So players like me kinda already do boycott it. I do like the cheap foil commons and uncommons these sets bring for my cube, but that's about all.
My bigger problem is legacy, and the reserved list. It's hard to get blue duals for instance. I still don't quite have a playset of all the duals. I have been working on that for a while. It just seems to get harder to as the prices keep slowly climbing. Same with other reserved list cards.
The next qualm I have is look at how it long it takes them to reprint cards. I am quite aware wizards needs to reprint cards. Wizards does a bad job at reprinting cards if you think about it. What makes it worse is wizards exploit their failure to adequately reprint cards via these masters sets. The master sets just squeeze money from players wanting to play the game.
Most people can't even afford the price of old fetches and Modern Masters 2017, while dropping prices on some cards, still didn't drop them enough to put the prices within the grasp of the majority of players. That's the problem with these master sets and wizards refusal to reprint things. People have a cap they can spend each month on free time goods. It's a hard sell to even an enfranchised player to pay 50+ for a scalding tarn, let alone a Tarmogoyf. It doesn't even feel good or right to buy these expensive cards either. I purchased an entire merfolk tribal deck for modern, which is one of the cheapest modern decks available, and it was just pure emptiness playing the thing at modern night.
I have no idea why wizards is so obsessed with basically whipping their own player base. Magic the Gathering isn't about Standard, it's a game that has a history spanning back over 20 years with people who want to play cards going back to Alpha.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Expensive cards also hurt the integrity of the game too. What if you've been drafting esper etb value in mm17 drafts and in your last pack your rare is Séance and your foil is scalding tarn. Seance is a literally unbeatable magic card that costs less than toilet paper and foil Tarn is foil Tarn.
Expensive cards also hurt the integrity of the game too. What if you've been drafting esper etb value in mm17 drafts and in your last pack your rare is Séance and your foil is scalding tarn. Seance is a literally unbeatable magic card that costs less than toilet paper and foil Tarn is foil Tarn.
To be fair, Séance does have a chance to wheel because is a very narrow card that won't be picked by anyone outside of a white flicker archetype. It's not even an easy splash. Not that it isn't a strong card in the right deck, mind you, but your example leaves something to be desired.
Most of the people on this site who rail against card prices do so from the point of view of the purchaser, the "buy low" counterpart to the "sell high" perspective of players who want to buy products with good EV. Going after draft strategy is much more difficult because your examples are self-defeating. You treat opening a card worth more than your draft and picking it over a bomb as an inherently feel-bad moment, which it most certainly is not for many people. After all, selling an expensive card will always net you value, while even powerful bombs depend on the luck of the draw to win the draft.
Sadly, I don't think boycott would be successful since too many people are drooling for the cards in these sets. However, I hate these 10 dollar packs, but then again most the time I don't need the cards in them. I see it as exploiting new players to gamble with their money. I have seen players buy like 6 six of theses master packs and walk away with only 10 to 20 dollars worth cards far to often. I always think to myself: "Why do they buy these things?" Those six pack could have just bought the fetch you have been complaining about buying.
In what way is this any more "gambling with their money" compared to a regular booster pack?
Sure, the regular booster pack does cost less money, but it's the same basic concept. A Powerball ticket might be $2, more than most lottery tickets (which are usually $1) but it's still the same basic thing.
Not a fan of booster packs in general. However, you get 15 cards in 4 dollar pack. That's about 0.25 cents a card, and when you take what would it cost to get a cards made on a digital print press is about 0.05 to 0.10 cents each. It depending on print run size. You can get even cheaper with an offset printing press like 0.02 cents each, but then we are printing hundreds of thousands to millions of cards. So when you consider what it would cost to do it your-self the price is not too bad. Especially, when you factor in the cost of hiring artists ect...
However, at these master sets have a 10.00 msrp. The markup compared to the actual production costs screams cash grab. Especially, a reprint set where one of the large upfront costs has been (mostly) already been paid for the art. They also don't have to spend as much labor designing cards since they already exist. So wizards is spending less to make the set, and charging more.
So you have to ask what are players paying more for then compared to a normal booster? The answer is simple it is: The chance at an expensive card or hard to find card.
While the same applies to a normal booster. Even if they get burned think about how much an LGS sells commons and uncommons and bulk rares for. That still makes a decent chunk of the packs value just at bulk rates.
The bigger issues I have is how much trash they put in standard packs. When you think of a 4.00 dollar booster pack the value is not bad for what you get for all the art and printing. However, these days most the cards in the pack might as well be blank cards just too much trash, but that is a separate topic.
However, as said earlier the fact people are paying stupendous markup on these master sets speaks volumes. Volumes on how bad wizards is at reprinting cards at reasonable pace.
Wizards really isn't printing cards well for draft and limited either with how they are doing sealed packs. The Mythics and Inventions are causing all sorts of problems in the limited environment due to the RNG factor, and they could easily mitigate this by putting all rares and mythics into a separate pack that gets thrown in each booster box that contains the mythics and rares. The only issue is that if they do that, it makes it only worthwhile to players to buy booster boxes as the only purpose to get normal packs at that point is to do draft / limited. Not that I think that is a problem as one of the other issues MtG has is the repacking industry preying upon people blinded by their own desires for getting chase cards from the past. If players know that all the mythics and inventions come in a special pack included in booster boxes they'd basically never buy repack products again.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Not a fan of booster packs in general. However, you get 15 cards in 4 dollar pack. That's about 0.25 cents a card, and when you take what would it cost to get a cards made on a digital print press is about 0.05 to 0.10 cents each. It depending on print run size. You can get even cheaper with an offset printing press like 0.02 cents each, but then we are printing hundreds of thousands to millions of cards. So when you consider what it would cost to do it your-self the price is not too bad. Especially, when you factor in the cost of hiring artists ect...
However, at these master sets have a 10.00 msrp. The markup compared to the actual production costs screams cash grab. Especially, a reprint set where one of the large upfront costs has been (mostly) already been paid for the art. They also don't have to spend as much labor designing cards since they already exist. So wizards is spending less to make the set, and charging more.
Okay, let's suppose that they brought the Masters sets down to the usual MSRP of $3.99. Would anywhere actually sell it at that price?
Of course not. Because everyone knows the things are worth more than that. They tried giving a $7 MSRP on the first Modern Masters, and almost no one would sell it at that price because all of the vendors knew the product's worth was greater than that. This resulted in complaints from players who couldn't find it at MSRP, and complaints from the stores who were irritated about the complaints they were getting because Wizards of the Coast set an MSRP that was too low.
It doesn't matter how low a company puts the MSRP if the product is clearly worth more than that. A car company could put an MSRP of $100 on their newest car and no dealer would sell it at that price.
Not a fan of booster packs in general. However, you get 15 cards in 4 dollar pack. That's about 0.25 cents a card, and when you take what would it cost to get a cards made on a digital print press is about 0.05 to 0.10 cents each. It depending on print run size. You can get even cheaper with an offset printing press like 0.02 cents each, but then we are printing hundreds of thousands to millions of cards. So when you consider what it would cost to do it your-self the price is not too bad. Especially, when you factor in the cost of hiring artists ect...
However, at these master sets have a 10.00 msrp. The markup compared to the actual production costs screams cash grab. Especially, a reprint set where one of the large upfront costs has been (mostly) already been paid for the art. They also don't have to spend as much labor designing cards since they already exist. So wizards is spending less to make the set, and charging more.
Okay, let's suppose that they brought the Masters sets down to the usual MSRP of $3.99. Would anywhere actually sell it at that price?
Of course not. Because everyone knows the things are worth more than that. They tried giving a $7 MSRP on the first Modern Masters, and almost no one would sell it at that price because all of the vendors knew the product's worth was greater than that. This resulted in complaints from players who couldn't find it at MSRP, and complaints from the stores who were irritated about the complaints they were getting because Wizards of the Coast set an MSRP that was too low.
It doesn't matter how low a company puts the MSRP if the product is clearly worth more than that. A car company could put an MSRP of $100 on their newest car and no dealer would sell it at that price.
The problem is that people keep pointing this out like no one realizes it's going to happen. This is a short term observation. The long term ultimately is if they keep doing it, prices will fall. That's the entire point of pricing the set at 99 msrp and especially so if wizards is transparent about it and does a significant print run. However, this is still not the best model for getting the eternal cards out into the wild for all players.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Sorry but I don't understand the topic. Are you upset with some of the card prices dropping? I think a lot has to do with demand. Sinkhole is awesome but there is a small number of decks that play sinkhole, therefore the demand is not high. Before the reprinting of Sinkhole, if you wanted a black border you are looking at alpha/beta and those print runs are small therefore the price is tailored to those that are willing to part the card.
Sorry but I don't understand the topic. Are you upset with some of the card prices dropping? I think a lot has to do with demand. Sinkhole is awesome but there is a small number of decks that play sinkhole, therefore the demand is not high. Before the reprinting of Sinkhole, if you wanted a black border you are looking at alpha/beta and those print runs are small therefore the price is tailored to those that are willing to part the card.
No it's the opposite. People are tired of masters sets doing nothing to stave off the inevitable march of price increases on the secondary market and instead pump the costs up for just about everyone in the long run. It's not helped by a ravenous secondary market that will buy up and tear open everything with value in it just to sell like vultures, forcing WoTC to put all the needed cards into these overpriced monstrosities because they aren't printing aggressively enough or regularly enough to keep the prices in check.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
No it's the opposite. People are tired of masters sets doing nothing to stave off the inevitable march of price increases on the secondary market and instead pump the costs up for just about everyone in the long run. It's not helped by a ravenous secondary market that will buy up and tear open everything with value in it just to sell like vultures, forcing WoTC to put all the needed cards into these overpriced monstrosities because they aren't printing aggressively enough or regularly enough to keep the prices in check.
And yet, if people stopped buying Masters sets, WotC's takeaway would be that the demand for those reprints just isn't there.
WotC has been much more generous with reprints in this past year and a half compared to the years prior. Basically every card worth more than $50 that they could reprint has shown up in either a Eternal Masters, Conspiracy 2, Modern Masters 3, or as a Masterpiece. Sure, some of these don't do much to affect the prices, but it does make those cards more available, and if they can continue to reprint in large amounts and not have the prices fall too far, they could make the case of abolishing the Reserved List and actually reprint the rest of it too.
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No it's the opposite. People are tired of masters sets doing nothing to stave off the inevitable march of price increases on the secondary market and instead pump the costs up for just about everyone in the long run. It's not helped by a ravenous secondary market that will buy up and tear open everything with value in it just to sell like vultures, forcing WoTC to put all the needed cards into these overpriced monstrosities because they aren't printing aggressively enough or regularly enough to keep the prices in check.
And yet, if people stopped buying Masters sets, WotC's takeaway would be that the demand for those reprints just isn't there.
WotC has been much more generous with reprints in this past year and a half compared to the years prior. Basically every card worth more than $50 that they could reprint has shown up in either a Eternal Masters, Conspiracy 2, Modern Masters 3, or as a Masterpiece. Sure, some of these don't do much to affect the prices, but it does make those cards more available, and if they can continue to reprint in large amounts and not have the prices fall too far, they could make the case of abolishing the Reserved List and actually reprint the rest of it too.
A lot of people don't really buy sealed at 240 msrp on principle because it's priced out of their price range and ultimately it doesn't matter how many reprints they do if the reprints don't solve the issue of price. The majority of the box price goes strait into the rares and mythics, so the only thing setting the price that high per box does is jack the price up on all the rare and mythic cards printed while leaving anything common and uncommon in the dirt piles like any other set. Unless you think dozens of Madcap Skills and Mogg Flunkies somehow make up for the fact the card people really want, Scalding Tarn for example, gets priced at 50 usd thanks to the box.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
And yet, if people stopped buying Masters sets, WotC's takeaway would be that the demand for those reprints just isn't there.
Yeah, I do agree with you on this.
WotC has been much more generous with reprints in this past year and a half compared to the years prior. Basically every card worth more than $50 that they could reprint has shown up in either a Eternal Masters, Conspiracy 2, Modern Masters 3, or as a Masterpiece. Sure, some of these don't do much to affect the prices, but it does make those cards more available, and if they can continue to reprint in large amounts and not have the prices fall too far, they could make the case of abolishing the Reserved List and actually reprint the rest of it too.
I do like how wizards found ways to add old cards to the game.
Sadly wizards is NOT going to abolish the reserve list because the collectible value of most of those cards are established as high value. Also, I really believe wizard thinks legacy would be a better format if the dual's were shocklands. And we all know that would never happen because there are too many players willing to pay 300 dollars for an Underground Sea than 15 dollars for a Watery Grave.
@Colt47
I see where you are coming from. True most players don't want to pay 50 dollars for Scalding Tarn, but if you look at magic tournament is the eyes of gambling, you'll understand people will pay 50 dollars for a better card especially when the card helps the deck to be consistent. And players do know this and will not trade/sell their Scalding Tarn for anything less. For example, if you opened a booster pack with Scalding Tarn, would you trade it for a Harbinger of Night? Both cards are rare and the Harbinger of Night is on the reprint policy... No you won't, even if you found the booster pack in the middle of an empty parking lot, you would not trade the Scalding Tarn for anything less.
I've been playing the game since 1996, and I do remember the kid sitting at table boasting about his beta black lotus. The card was valued at 500 dollars back then.
I think that if the MSRP of a box stayed at its current price they could increase the packs to the standard/normal 36 packs per box. That compounded with an increased or normal print life/run may help the overall price crisis.
@Soldier You can't compare reserved list antiquing to modern magic. The idea is that chase cards should hold value, but modern is a complete and utter disaster on the second hand market due to the lack of proper support and printings. Wizards created a format and then let it rot while players clamoured to it, resulting in unnaturally high prices on all the chase cards in the card pool. Unless they are intent on self sabotage, there is no way Wizards ever intended 100 usd Tarmogoyfs, Liliana of the Veil, etc. They did this unintentionally by refusing to print the cards sufficiently and pumping the tournament scene, increasing the demand on the cards further.
This is a far cry different than Reserved List cards that are antiques. They hold some value due to playability, but the real thing that holds RL card values is the fact they can never be reprinted. Cards in modern are supposed to be getting reprinted and not in a cash grab 240 msrp box set.
Edit: Actually, I know exactly who wanted 240 msrp box sets. That would be corporate thinking they can cause artificial scarcity, pump secondary market prices, and then sell people on 10 dollar sealed packs without a bunch of people getting angry enough to full out not buy the set. Funny enough it actually works because they neglected to print anything for so long people will literally nose dive the second something like a Cavern of Souls drops below 40 usd. And the real kicker is that those same people think these are good prices and that this is normal.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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Reprints in std legal sets - cards massively reduce in price- (mindcensor, allied fetches, thoughtseize)
Reprints in conspiracy - massive reductions (show and tell, berserk)
Reprints in FTV - some reasonable reductions (eg Jace), others less of an impact (eg Grove)
Reprints in commander - some reasonable price reductions, although very few high end cards have been reprinted
Reprints in masters sets- 10-20% price drops max (Fetches in MM17), some notable cards no change or even increases (Goyf), odd and narrow cards drop a long way e.g. Sinkhole where the demand was relatively low.
Legacy cards tend to fall a bit more than Modern ones.
Masters sets are fine in themselves, the price tag is probably 50% higher than it should be, certainly in the UK and Europe.
It seems to me that if sales of masters sets dropped we could get Wizards to reduce the price tag to something more reasonable (say £6 a booster not £10), or get printing reprints in sets like Conspiracy or Commander where the price drops a fair way without tanking totally. I am not in favour of enormous reprinting en masse, I am, however, annoyed that we can't get enemy fetches anywhere near the right level. More expensive than allied ones is fine, 3-4 times the price is not.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
I know people that saved money for months just to get cases and draft as much as possible. Good luck trying to get those people to stop buying probably the best product they put out a year.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
When you figure its better then any other older/eternal format they ever sanctioned, I would say its pretty good.
Well, we can say feeding someone who is starving cold grits to be fighting hunger, but that isn't the same as restoring farmland and improving infrastructure so the people aren't starving in the first place.
Wizards is throwing out cash grabs, they aren't genuinely supporting modern as they should be doing and right now the support for modern tournament play is nearly all third party. I see hope in the future for change given the horrible standard environment the last few years, so it's a wait and see.
I do understand that the designers and developers have a certain vision they want to take MtG in the future, but a lot of people playing magic now or are returning to the game are looking to the past. They want to play the sets of yesteryear and are finding a market that is just hostile to the consumer.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
I'm hoping we will start to see this in the future. I'm banking on the leaked questionnaire asking about what to name a core set as a sign for more reprints in normally priced booster boxes.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Further you have players who watch someone get lucky, and then proceed to push their luck to only get burned. I have seen this happen too much for my taste. I feel it's exploitative. I do see that it makes LGS money, but still there has to be a better way.
If I do need a card. I only need one or two cards. Like MM17 I had most the money cards already. I have all the fetches, goyfs, lilianas, snap casters, goblin guides. I think the only card worth something that I didn't have was Linvala, Keeper of Silence, but I see it as mainly an EDH card so I never wanted it. I did trade my Damnations a way a while ago for Karns for building tron. So players like me kinda already do boycott it. I do like the cheap foil commons and uncommons these sets bring for my cube, but that's about all.
My bigger problem is legacy, and the reserved list. It's hard to get blue duals for instance. I still don't quite have a playset of all the duals. I have been working on that for a while. It just seems to get harder to as the prices keep slowly climbing. Same with other reserved list cards.
The next qualm I have is look at how it long it takes them to reprint cards. I am quite aware wizards needs to reprint cards. Wizards does a bad job at reprinting cards if you think about it. What makes it worse is wizards exploit their failure to adequately reprint cards via these masters sets. The master sets just squeeze money from players wanting to play the game.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
I have no idea why wizards is so obsessed with basically whipping their own player base. Magic the Gathering isn't about Standard, it's a game that has a history spanning back over 20 years with people who want to play cards going back to Alpha.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
To be fair, Séance does have a chance to wheel because is a very narrow card that won't be picked by anyone outside of a white flicker archetype. It's not even an easy splash. Not that it isn't a strong card in the right deck, mind you, but your example leaves something to be desired.
Most of the people on this site who rail against card prices do so from the point of view of the purchaser, the "buy low" counterpart to the "sell high" perspective of players who want to buy products with good EV. Going after draft strategy is much more difficult because your examples are self-defeating. You treat opening a card worth more than your draft and picking it over a bomb as an inherently feel-bad moment, which it most certainly is not for many people. After all, selling an expensive card will always net you value, while even powerful bombs depend on the luck of the draw to win the draft.
Sure, the regular booster pack does cost less money, but it's the same basic concept. A Powerball ticket might be $2, more than most lottery tickets (which are usually $1) but it's still the same basic thing.
However, at these master sets have a 10.00 msrp. The markup compared to the actual production costs screams cash grab. Especially, a reprint set where one of the large upfront costs has been (mostly) already been paid for the art. They also don't have to spend as much labor designing cards since they already exist. So wizards is spending less to make the set, and charging more.
So you have to ask what are players paying more for then compared to a normal booster? The answer is simple it is: The chance at an expensive card or hard to find card.
While the same applies to a normal booster. Even if they get burned think about how much an LGS sells commons and uncommons and bulk rares for. That still makes a decent chunk of the packs value just at bulk rates.
The bigger issues I have is how much trash they put in standard packs. When you think of a 4.00 dollar booster pack the value is not bad for what you get for all the art and printing. However, these days most the cards in the pack might as well be blank cards just too much trash, but that is a separate topic.
However, as said earlier the fact people are paying stupendous markup on these master sets speaks volumes. Volumes on how bad wizards is at reprinting cards at reasonable pace.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Of course not. Because everyone knows the things are worth more than that. They tried giving a $7 MSRP on the first Modern Masters, and almost no one would sell it at that price because all of the vendors knew the product's worth was greater than that. This resulted in complaints from players who couldn't find it at MSRP, and complaints from the stores who were irritated about the complaints they were getting because Wizards of the Coast set an MSRP that was too low.
It doesn't matter how low a company puts the MSRP if the product is clearly worth more than that. A car company could put an MSRP of $100 on their newest car and no dealer would sell it at that price.
The problem is that people keep pointing this out like no one realizes it's going to happen. This is a short term observation. The long term ultimately is if they keep doing it, prices will fall. That's the entire point of pricing the set at 99 msrp and especially so if wizards is transparent about it and does a significant print run. However, this is still not the best model for getting the eternal cards out into the wild for all players.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
No it's the opposite. People are tired of masters sets doing nothing to stave off the inevitable march of price increases on the secondary market and instead pump the costs up for just about everyone in the long run. It's not helped by a ravenous secondary market that will buy up and tear open everything with value in it just to sell like vultures, forcing WoTC to put all the needed cards into these overpriced monstrosities because they aren't printing aggressively enough or regularly enough to keep the prices in check.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
And yet, if people stopped buying Masters sets, WotC's takeaway would be that the demand for those reprints just isn't there.
WotC has been much more generous with reprints in this past year and a half compared to the years prior. Basically every card worth more than $50 that they could reprint has shown up in either a Eternal Masters, Conspiracy 2, Modern Masters 3, or as a Masterpiece. Sure, some of these don't do much to affect the prices, but it does make those cards more available, and if they can continue to reprint in large amounts and not have the prices fall too far, they could make the case of abolishing the Reserved List and actually reprint the rest of it too.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
A lot of people don't really buy sealed at 240 msrp on principle because it's priced out of their price range and ultimately it doesn't matter how many reprints they do if the reprints don't solve the issue of price. The majority of the box price goes strait into the rares and mythics, so the only thing setting the price that high per box does is jack the price up on all the rare and mythic cards printed while leaving anything common and uncommon in the dirt piles like any other set. Unless you think dozens of Madcap Skills and Mogg Flunkies somehow make up for the fact the card people really want, Scalding Tarn for example, gets priced at 50 usd thanks to the box.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yeah, I do agree with you on this.
I do like how wizards found ways to add old cards to the game.
Sadly wizards is NOT going to abolish the reserve list because the collectible value of most of those cards are established as high value. Also, I really believe wizard thinks legacy would be a better format if the dual's were shocklands. And we all know that would never happen because there are too many players willing to pay 300 dollars for an Underground Sea than 15 dollars for a Watery Grave.
@Colt47
I see where you are coming from. True most players don't want to pay 50 dollars for Scalding Tarn, but if you look at magic tournament is the eyes of gambling, you'll understand people will pay 50 dollars for a better card especially when the card helps the deck to be consistent. And players do know this and will not trade/sell their Scalding Tarn for anything less. For example, if you opened a booster pack with Scalding Tarn, would you trade it for a Harbinger of Night? Both cards are rare and the Harbinger of Night is on the reprint policy... No you won't, even if you found the booster pack in the middle of an empty parking lot, you would not trade the Scalding Tarn for anything less.
I've been playing the game since 1996, and I do remember the kid sitting at table boasting about his beta black lotus. The card was valued at 500 dollars back then.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
This is a far cry different than Reserved List cards that are antiques. They hold some value due to playability, but the real thing that holds RL card values is the fact they can never be reprinted. Cards in modern are supposed to be getting reprinted and not in a cash grab 240 msrp box set.
Edit: Actually, I know exactly who wanted 240 msrp box sets. That would be corporate thinking they can cause artificial scarcity, pump secondary market prices, and then sell people on 10 dollar sealed packs without a bunch of people getting angry enough to full out not buy the set. Funny enough it actually works because they neglected to print anything for so long people will literally nose dive the second something like a Cavern of Souls drops below 40 usd. And the real kicker is that those same people think these are good prices and that this is normal.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!