Relic Seeker was also really good, it just never quite had the right cards surrounding it. I think one other equipment that was non-legendary and on par with Sword of the Animist would have let it make a splash in standard.
Its weird that Relic Seeker got printed before return to zendikar, which had the 'kor is an equipment based tribe' theme and then they print a kor haven outfitter to hold what a bone saw?
I miss good artifacts in general, even rare or mythics seem to be very tame. Creative and unique, sure, but tame. I know it's dangerous to make artifacts too good or else every deck can and will play them due to being colorless (see hangarback walker), but most of them just seem unnecessary expensive. I'd love to play tamiyo's journal, but a cmc of 5 is just cringeworthy.
Equipment has it even worse I think nowadays. Ever since this game became creatures: the gathering, equipment has to be even 'fairer' else it breaks the format. Wizards seems to think it's better to have powerful creatures instead of powerful equipment, that's for sure. Sword of the animist has to be my favourite equipment for the last sets, and so many saw potential in it, but even with a powerful effect, that cmc and equip-cost was too much to make it playable.
I'm just curious (read: worried) about how they're going to handle Kaladesh block. Those two sets may either bring me tears of joy... or tears of rage and disappointment. Don't mess this one up wizards... please.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
Relic Seeker had to be in Origins because of the renowned mechanic. It at least had two good targets ,Sword of the Animist and Throwing Knife, to fetch. I don't know why BFZ had so many equipment themed cards when all the equipment in that block was so awful. Maybe they pulled some better cards at the last minute and didn't have time to redo all the enablers.
Relic Seeker had to be in Origins because of the renowned mechanic. It at least had two good targets ,Sword of the Animist and Throwing Knife, to fetch. I don't know why BFZ had so many equipment themed cards when all the equipment in that block was so awful. Maybe they pulled some better cards at the last minute and didn't have time to redo all the enablers.
I think wizards uses equipment sometimes just to feel space in sets, that's why the BFZ equipment sucked it was filer for the set not meant to be playable.
They did print a good equipment recently, Slayer's plate, which while it didn't see much play outside of limited, when I've played against it in the format it seemed really powerful, since it made every creature a threat.
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Relic Seeker had to be in Origins because of the renowned mechanic. It at least had two good targets ,Sword of the Animist and Throwing Knife, to fetch. I don't know why BFZ had so many equipment themed cards when all the equipment in that block was so awful. Maybe they pulled some better cards at the last minute and didn't have time to redo all the enablers.
I think wizards uses equipment sometimes just to feel space in sets, that's why the BFZ equipment sucked it was filer for the set not meant to be playable.
That's certainly the case, but I was referring to creatures that synergized with equipment like Stoneforge Acolyte. When stinker like Chitinous Cloak is the best equipment in the format (out of the subsequent small set!) why in the world would you print equipment support cards?
Relic Seeker had to be in Origins because of the renowned mechanic. It at least had two good targets ,Sword of the Animist and Throwing Knife, to fetch. I don't know why BFZ had so many equipment themed cards when all the equipment in that block was so awful. Maybe they pulled some better cards at the last minute and didn't have time to redo all the enablers.
I think wizards uses equipment sometimes just to feel space in sets, that's why the BFZ equipment sucked it was filer for the set not meant to be playable.
That's certainly the case, but I was referring to creatures that synergized with equipment like Stoneforge Acolyte. When stinker like Chitinous Cloak is the best equipment in the format (out of the subsequent small set!) why in the world would you print equipment support cards?
Because it is safer to print things like Stoneforge Acolyte when players can't use them to their fullest. Stoneforge Mystic was a huge mistake because wizards released it at a time when there was good equipment cards in standard. It's just wizards being overly safe.
Wizards really just doesn't make many inherently powerful cards anymore, I think they are still jumping at shadows after DRS. I am not referring to the Delve cards, those were an accident and we will NEVER see delve again. and I don't mean powerful but extremely narrow cards, like Swiftspear, which only fits in very specific decks. I mean just generally powerful cards, the Titans, 1 drop mana dorks, 2cmc kill spells, creatures with haste or trample generally below 4cmc, artifacts that don't become bulk the day after you draft them. I hope they will stop hiding eventually, take a risk with new cards. note that I do NOT mean something obviously and inherently broken, like the recent Eldrazi. happy medium. the Swords of X and Y are a great example, very strong if you can use them properly, some of the best choices in Modern for what they do, and right on the cusp of being totally playable
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Basically all of the "good" equipment comes from a time when the idea was new and the boundaries hadn't properly been explored. Equipment now is more balanced.
Whilst I would agree that, generally, the overall power of non creature cards across magic has come down in recent years I prefer it to the degenerate state of not so long ago. Standard has been its most interesting in years with multiple viable decks at the same time as opposed to everyone playing Rafinity, CawBlade or Fairies as has happened within my play time.
Equipment cards used to be really good, like all of the swords, Lightning GreavesLoxodon WarhammerSkullclamp, Cranial Plating the list goes on and on. Seems like now most are a waste of time or, are to expensive to equip. I miss the old days of playing with good equip cards. Am I the only that feels this way?
As nearly everyone in the thread has pointed out, the swords, cranial plating, and skullclamp were broken. Plating and clamp were outright design errors, while the swords are simply too OP.
The problem with equipment is that it is hard to design and develop. It suffers from the some of the problems of auras, in that it requires enough creatures to be viable, which limits the amount of equipment you can put in your deck AND the amount of answers (discard, removal, counters) AND the amount of planeswalkers. This means that for any equipment to see play in constructed, it needs to be VERY powerful (same for auras). Equipment has a major advantage over auras, of course, as when the creature its equipping dies, you can just equip to a new creature. This makes it much more difficult to deal with than auras, and means that when an equipment has a very powerful effect, they have to give it a higher equip cost to make losing your creature meaningful. The swords all had very powerful effects (with the exception of perhaps Body and Mind), because +2/+2, protection from 2 colors, and 2 strong on hit effects is great, and they were all cheap enough to cost and equip that they'd come down and get to work early. Loxodon Warhammer, on the other hand, gives one extra power, 2 less toughness, lifelink and trample, for the same cost and one more equip. Warhammer would be good in nearly any standard format, and is basically in the sweet spot for powerful but not broken. Very powerful without being broken and format warping is a very narrow window, and one that can be easily skewed based on whatever else is in the set. Lots of equipment support and powerful mass token generators, like we have now, can push equipment that are normally merely playable into broken territory, or equipment that are normally not quite there into playable territory. Its also very hard to make many cards that fit this narrow window, especially in the same standard. Wizards has moved to erring on the side of caution and printing cards that can be very powerful in the right decks, usually by being under costed for the effect but suffering from restrictions that make them useless in some decks.
For potentially powerful cards in standard that can reach Warhammer power levels, Captain's Claws (its its own token generator!), Neglected HeirloomSigil of ValorSlayer's PlateStoneforge MasterworkSword of the Animist. I'm sure they felt like Plate would see play in humans, and it might yet once CoCo rotates. Stoneforge Masterwork as well, and heck, with captain's claws, Ally Equipment might end up being a thing once Kaladesh gets here. Sword of the Animist is basically an auto include in any mono color EDH deck that runs creatures, and in most 2 color decks that run creatures. That's not a bad list for a Standard that lacks an artifact block.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
The listed equipment all came from the same block, though, and they were all there to display the potential power of the new card type.
Every now and then they produce a good one. After Mirrodin was the Jitte, then there was a relative dearth for a while, then the newer swords and Batterskull.
The problem is that equipment being strong means that creatures in general have to be weaker, but the relative power curve has been for bigger, stronger creatures of recent.
Because busted equipment usually negatively affects Standard: cards that can be run in every deck always end up being very expensive cause netdeckers rule the day.
Neckdeckers are the scourge of the internet MtG community: they cry that cards aren't powerful enough when they are spoiled, quickly change their tune once they find their way on GP and PT winning lists and then cry about card prices once every one wants to buy those cards.
Not having busted equipment is very good for the game, you don't want to go back Mirrodin/Kamigawa, trust me.
As usual WotC made some busted cards when they first started making them (like they made some busted Planeswalkers in Elspeth Knight-Errant, Gideon Jura and Jace the Mind Sculptor) not long after introducing them) and then backed off. I am very confident Kaladesh is going to care about equipment (fits steampunk) so expect them to push a few equipment cards there and we will see how things shake out.
I'm not advocating busted equipment, I just want more fun playable equipment cards like Loxodon warhammer. Warhammer is a perfect example of a good equipment card. It's powerful and playable but not broken. Sunforger is another good example. If wizards is so scared to make playable equipment why make any at all.
I agree, Vulshok Morningstar didn't see play either and it's a better version of Cultist's Staff, granted you can agree that there was better equipment to play at that time Like Bonesplitter.
Good, all-purpose equipment serious warps limited formats unless the set is artifact themed where artifact destruction is common and maindeckable. They tend to fit into any limited deck and make the game extremely difficult for the opponent once played. Any equipment that adds 2 or more power and has equip cost of 2 or less has the potential to make any random limited dork into a bomb.
Most of the good equipment already mentioned in this thread (Swords of X and Y, clamp, Cranial Plating, Warhammer, Jitte etc.) are all first-pick bombs that dominated their sets in limited.
I'm not advocating busted equipment, I just want more fun playable equipment cards like Loxodon warhammer. Warhammer is a perfect example of a good equipment card. It's powerful and playable but not broken. Sunforger is another good example. If wizards is so scared to make playable equipment why make any at all.
I listed six equipment that are standard legal that are around the power level of collar and warhammer. Perhaps the fact that they aren't all purpose is throwing you off? Or maybe you are looking for splashier effects on more expensive equipment, so you are disregarding the power level of the lower cost equipment with smaller effects? Sword of the Animist is a CA house that goes online potentially turn 3, and doesn't even have to connect. Same for Captain's Claws. Stoneforge Masterwork is one mana and one to equip, and in a tribal deck easily provides a boost of at least +3/+3. That's nuts for so little mana. That's Rancor level.
A note on Sunforger btw: its really powerful, but also narrow, which is why its ok for it to be that powerful. First, you need to be in RW, then you need to be running enough instants for it to matter (which isn't too much a challenge in RW) and have access to enough mana to pay for a 3 mana equip that equips for 3 then has a RW activation cost. That puts you a little higher on your mana count than something like Boros Bushwhacker, but requires a decent mix of critters and instants. It would be cool to see more equipment restricted to certain color pairs, but that kind of defeats the spirit of equipment (which, as artifacts, are supposed to be open to all colors), and was only used because Sunforger was part of a 10 card "Guild Artifact" cycle during a big multicolor block where the focus was on showcasing the Guilds. Colored, or color requiring, artifacts should show up rarely, and then only when serving the theme of the set or a specific story need (Multicolor Set, Artifact world with a high artifact count, Esper, Phyrexian Mana, the God weapons).
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Good, all-purpose equipment serious warps limited formats unless the set is artifact themed where artifact destruction is common and maindeckable. They tend to fit into any limited deck and make the game extremely difficult for the opponent once played. Any equipment that adds 2 or more power and has equip cost of 2 or less has the potential to make any random limited dork into a bomb.
Most of the good equipment already mentioned in this thread (Swords of X and Y, clamp, Cranial Plating, Warhammer, Jitte etc.) are all first-pick bombs that dominated their sets in limited.
I think this is probably the right answer, good equipment hurts limited and because it does wizards is willing to hurt Standard to make limited better. Another reason why limited hurts standard.
Good Equipment cards are what happens when Wizards tries to make a set powerful enough to influence Vintage and Legacy (I'm obviously looking at you, Mirrodin). That does not make them money. Printing Equipment cards that are good in Limited without being good enough to hurt that format makes them money.
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Equipment has it even worse I think nowadays. Ever since this game became creatures: the gathering, equipment has to be even 'fairer' else it breaks the format. Wizards seems to think it's better to have powerful creatures instead of powerful equipment, that's for sure. Sword of the animist has to be my favourite equipment for the last sets, and so many saw potential in it, but even with a powerful effect, that cmc and equip-cost was too much to make it playable.
I'm just curious (read: worried) about how they're going to handle Kaladesh block. Those two sets may either bring me tears of joy... or tears of rage and disappointment. Don't mess this one up wizards... please.
Graham from Loading Ready Run
That's certainly the case, but I was referring to creatures that synergized with equipment like Stoneforge Acolyte. When stinker like Chitinous Cloak is the best equipment in the format (out of the subsequent small set!) why in the world would you print equipment support cards?
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Yep.
Bingo.
Whilst I would agree that, generally, the overall power of non creature cards across magic has come down in recent years I prefer it to the degenerate state of not so long ago. Standard has been its most interesting in years with multiple viable decks at the same time as opposed to everyone playing Rafinity, CawBlade or Fairies as has happened within my play time.
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
As nearly everyone in the thread has pointed out, the swords, cranial plating, and skullclamp were broken. Plating and clamp were outright design errors, while the swords are simply too OP.
The problem with equipment is that it is hard to design and develop. It suffers from the some of the problems of auras, in that it requires enough creatures to be viable, which limits the amount of equipment you can put in your deck AND the amount of answers (discard, removal, counters) AND the amount of planeswalkers. This means that for any equipment to see play in constructed, it needs to be VERY powerful (same for auras). Equipment has a major advantage over auras, of course, as when the creature its equipping dies, you can just equip to a new creature. This makes it much more difficult to deal with than auras, and means that when an equipment has a very powerful effect, they have to give it a higher equip cost to make losing your creature meaningful. The swords all had very powerful effects (with the exception of perhaps Body and Mind), because +2/+2, protection from 2 colors, and 2 strong on hit effects is great, and they were all cheap enough to cost and equip that they'd come down and get to work early. Loxodon Warhammer, on the other hand, gives one extra power, 2 less toughness, lifelink and trample, for the same cost and one more equip. Warhammer would be good in nearly any standard format, and is basically in the sweet spot for powerful but not broken. Very powerful without being broken and format warping is a very narrow window, and one that can be easily skewed based on whatever else is in the set. Lots of equipment support and powerful mass token generators, like we have now, can push equipment that are normally merely playable into broken territory, or equipment that are normally not quite there into playable territory. Its also very hard to make many cards that fit this narrow window, especially in the same standard. Wizards has moved to erring on the side of caution and printing cards that can be very powerful in the right decks, usually by being under costed for the effect but suffering from restrictions that make them useless in some decks.
For potentially powerful cards in standard that can reach Warhammer power levels, Captain's Claws (its its own token generator!), Neglected Heirloom Sigil of Valor Slayer's Plate Stoneforge Masterwork Sword of the Animist. I'm sure they felt like Plate would see play in humans, and it might yet once CoCo rotates. Stoneforge Masterwork as well, and heck, with captain's claws, Ally Equipment might end up being a thing once Kaladesh gets here. Sword of the Animist is basically an auto include in any mono color EDH deck that runs creatures, and in most 2 color decks that run creatures. That's not a bad list for a Standard that lacks an artifact block.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Every now and then they produce a good one. After Mirrodin was the Jitte, then there was a relative dearth for a while, then the newer swords and Batterskull.
The problem is that equipment being strong means that creatures in general have to be weaker, but the relative power curve has been for bigger, stronger creatures of recent.
Neckdeckers are the scourge of the internet MtG community: they cry that cards aren't powerful enough when they are spoiled, quickly change their tune once they find their way on GP and PT winning lists and then cry about card prices once every one wants to buy those cards.
Not having busted equipment is very good for the game, you don't want to go back Mirrodin/Kamigawa, trust me.
As usual WotC made some busted cards when they first started making them (like they made some busted Planeswalkers in Elspeth Knight-Errant, Gideon Jura and Jace the Mind Sculptor) not long after introducing them) and then backed off. I am very confident Kaladesh is going to care about equipment (fits steampunk) so expect them to push a few equipment cards there and we will see how things shake out.
Not when Vulshok Morningstar is right there.
Most of the good equipment already mentioned in this thread (Swords of X and Y, clamp, Cranial Plating, Warhammer, Jitte etc.) are all first-pick bombs that dominated their sets in limited.
I listed six equipment that are standard legal that are around the power level of collar and warhammer. Perhaps the fact that they aren't all purpose is throwing you off? Or maybe you are looking for splashier effects on more expensive equipment, so you are disregarding the power level of the lower cost equipment with smaller effects? Sword of the Animist is a CA house that goes online potentially turn 3, and doesn't even have to connect. Same for Captain's Claws. Stoneforge Masterwork is one mana and one to equip, and in a tribal deck easily provides a boost of at least +3/+3. That's nuts for so little mana. That's Rancor level.
A note on Sunforger btw: its really powerful, but also narrow, which is why its ok for it to be that powerful. First, you need to be in RW, then you need to be running enough instants for it to matter (which isn't too much a challenge in RW) and have access to enough mana to pay for a 3 mana equip that equips for 3 then has a RW activation cost. That puts you a little higher on your mana count than something like Boros Bushwhacker, but requires a decent mix of critters and instants. It would be cool to see more equipment restricted to certain color pairs, but that kind of defeats the spirit of equipment (which, as artifacts, are supposed to be open to all colors), and was only used because Sunforger was part of a 10 card "Guild Artifact" cycle during a big multicolor block where the focus was on showcasing the Guilds. Colored, or color requiring, artifacts should show up rarely, and then only when serving the theme of the set or a specific story need (Multicolor Set, Artifact world with a high artifact count, Esper, Phyrexian Mana, the God weapons).
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!