Quote from Ebonclaw »
I'm not entirely sold that Modern has more complex decks, but I can agree that the synergy in certain ones can be extremely difficult to make optimal decisions with. The tradeoff is that not making the optimal decision is not as damning as it is in Legacy, which I think still remains one of the most skill intensive format in regards to technicals and raw play ability. Regardless, I think we can agree that while standard has the most competitors, it is by no means the most competitive format, as top level competitive modern and Legacy players have so many more things to play with and take into account than standard.
Quote from IronPlushy »Never said all pros were good at limited, I'm saying there are high level players consistently good at limited while high level constructed players often falter in limited.
No combo in Standard? Well someone should have told me to stop winning with Brain on the Shore...This is even more proof that eternal players don't have more skill. You'll show up at a standard tournament with a tier 1 bant company deck and think you won't be annihilated with a 1 turn combo kill.
The thing with standard is you can't be good with just one deck like in modern and legacy, to be a top tier standard player you need to be familiar with all the decks, and play the right one well at a given tournament. Playing the metagame is an important part of standard. If you show up to a local legacy or modern tournament you're going to face the same exact decks week to week because the format is cost prohibitive. If you go to a bigger event the lack of support means the last big legacy tournament might have been months ago with no idea what metagame you'll fight. Standard the metagame changes week to week and if you want to succeed at the highest levels you have to capitalize on it instead of playing the same deck every week.
Quote from Ebonclaw »I experience the same phenomenon. I attribute this to the fact that I find Legacy to be a much more skill intensive/skill reliant format. Yes, there's always the element of luck in Magic, but Legacy is a format where playing a single one mana spell at the exact wrong time can spell defeat by creating an opening. I mean, where else can an opponent make the mistake of casting a 'Goyf on T2, using their only mana, then die to a lethal storm count staring at the Spell Pierce in hand and a tapped tropical island on their field?
Really, Legacy players will punish you for the most innocent of mistakes that, only after you play the format, do you realize how egregious they are. Standard and Modern are more forgiving, making a single error won't typically cost you the game on the spot. Old Standard Jund featuring Bloodbraid Elf/Blightning had a reputation for being an extremely forgiving deck that allowed for multiple mistakes for example. Basically what I'm driving at is that Standard/Modern have more variance. Naturally, the best players in these formats also make few, if any mistakes, but they aren't always able to capitalize on other's mistakes as often or punish them as hard when they do as in Legacy. Also, given that there is less variance in the decks, mean that you're not nearly as likely to show up to an event being the only player packing a given deck, in standard, three or more people may be playing basically the exact same deck as you, which, at that point, the only thing left in your control is how much better you are than them, which is mitigated by how much luckier they are than you. They might not be the best pilot, but they might get paired up against better matchups than you. In Legacy, however, the deck variance is so great it's almost impossible to have a contingency plan for everything you could face in a day. Sometimes you bring Storm and run into MUD, and sometimes you bring Miracles and run into Lands and sometimes you bring Burn and run into Death and Taxes. In standard and modern, you can usually have a contingency plan/sideboard for most, if not all the decks that exist, and your opponent probably has something that they can bring in against you. You face a lot more targeted hate in these formats, and in Legacy, sometimes your opponent just didn't find room in the sideboard for 4x Leyline of Sanctity as you open up a handful of bolts and fireblasts.
TLDR: Hate in standard/modern is more likely to exist against you and target you, mistakes in these formats are not usually game ending and it's more difficult to punish your opponent severely for making them; even if you are the better player, you may not always be able to capitalize on it. In Legacy, the power level of cards is so high, capitalizing on an opponent's mistake more often than not equals a win.
Quote from Ebonclaw »See, I don't play Legacy to justify the expenditure of my deck, I don't need to.
Quote from ashley25746 »3) Legacy's consistency makes it easier to play in my mind. It seems like delver can always brainstorm/ponder into FOW/daze, flip the delver and go. It can run on 2 mana if it has to. Modern has no brainstorm to grab what you need every time and it has no FOW to act as a free panic button.
Quote from IronPlushy »No combo in Standard? Well someone should have told me to stop winning with Brain on the Shore...
If you show up to a local legacy or modern tournament you're going to face the same exact decks week to week because the format is cost prohibitive.
Quote from Barack Obama »We're supposed to stand up to bullies, not follow them. We're supposed to stand up to discrimination. And we're sure as heck supposed to stand up clearly and unequivocally to Nazi sympathizers. How hard can that be, saying that Nazis are bad?
Quote from Teia Rabishu »[quote from="Ebonclaw »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/698716-better-at-legacy-then-modern-standard-what-does-it?comment=26"]
Legacy might certainly look easy if you aren't considering the thought that goes into all those plays...
Quote from ToshiUmezawa »Standard is more skillful IMO since it's a lot less likely to be blind sided by a competitive brew. If you know the meta and your decks strength's and weaknesses then it's more about player skill on how to sideboard and play the matchup then a flip of the coin.
Quote from Teia Rabishu »Quote from ToshiUmezawa »Standard is more skillful IMO since it's a lot less likely to be blind sided by a competitive brew. If you know the meta and your decks strength's and weaknesses then it's more about player skill on how to sideboard and play the matchup then a flip of the coin.
How is that significantly different from saying Constructed is more skillful than Limited because it's more about player skill than opening good cards?
Quote from IronPlushy »This is even more proof that eternal players don't have more skill. You'll show up at a standard tournament with a tier 1 bant company deck and think you won't be annihilated with a 1 turn combo kill.
Quote from IronPlushy »
Only bad players blame luck when we all know pros that are consistently successful at limited which is suppose to be the most luck intensive format.
Quote from IronPlushy »Legacy players think they're special little snowflakes and tapping a turn 1 land wrong loses the match but they can't come down to modern or standard and perform with any kind of skill.
All the formats take skill and operate very differently, it's just eternal players need to feel special and justify their thousands of dollars spent to themselves.
Quote from ToshiUmezawa »Draft is more skillful than sealed that's just obvious, but it comes down to player opinion. That's why I stated that this was my own opinion based on my own experiences.
Quote from Magicman657 »Not that I completely disagree, but in fairness there is no deck that can have good matchups versus every possible deck that might get paired against you. Your deck / sideboard choices ultimately come down to metagame statistics and predictive analytics, such that you might have picked the "correct" 75 cards to combat the metagame, but that doesn't mean you can't get paired up against a deck that's simply unfeasible to prepare for / a deck that will not succeed against the metagame but happens to be really good against you. So yes, to some extent it can be fairly considered bad luck to lose to those decks.
Quote from IronPlushy »
I never said there were turn 1 combo decks in standard.
Quote from IronPlushy »Legacy players think they're special little snowflakes...