Hey man, just for clarity:
a) did you mean to insult autistic people in this post or are you just thoughtlessly using slang?
b) Is "The world sucks and we shouldn't try to improve it" a good summary of your position?
It is foolish to change the way you live and act in fear that you might run in to a butthurt person who gets offended by basic politeness. We should not all be forced to walk on eggshells to accomodate the few salty butthurts in this world who can't handle losing a game of magic without catching feelings and throwing a tantrum.
Pros should not be encouraging this kind of thing because god knows they already have enough influence on most of the magic community.
How is it foolish to adjust what you say if it offends someone? So if someone you know tells you they don’t like something you say – you’ll just keep saying it?
And... You never adjust what you say based on the company you are in?
The world would be chaos if everyone just said what they felt; it’s akin to doing what they want.
We make adjustments as humans. We make adjustments to the society around us and what it expects of us. If you claim you never adjust what you say – you are a liar or a saint. And I'm sure you're not a saint.
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'We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war.' - Goblin Chieftain
Why do you expect all people to evaluate a situation/scenario the same way?
Because I expect people to be polite or expect to be called out for being a rude ********. This argument is like saying that people shouldn't say "good morning" to other people, because that person might not be having a good morning and how dare you be so insensitive and rude to not consider that fact. It's idiotic. I have no problem with people evaluating scenarios in different ways, but when the "scenario" is a simple polite turn of phrase, I'm allowed to say that the people who go out of their way to find offense at it are huge crybabies. When someone's evaluation of a scenario reaches such a dumb conclusion, it's perfectly reasonable to call that evaluation into question.
Again, ask yourself - why can elementary students handle saying good game after any sporting event, but adult magic players seemingly can't. The only nice side about arguments like this is that the people opposed to this appear to be a very vocal, very tiny minority. I've been saying good game for literally years, and I've never been insulted when someone else said it or had someone get mad at me, so it's thankfully not a real life issue for most of us.
Your stance seems to be that how your opponent feels about what you do or say isn't your business (I think that is generally true, except in extreme situations), but you insist on saying "good game." What is your motive in saying this thing?
Hey man, just for clarity: a) did you mean to insult autistic people in this post or are you just thoughtlessly using slang?
b) Is "The world sucks and we shouldn't try to improve it" a good summary of your position?
what are you even talking about?
I have absolutely zero problem with autistic people. Hug Box means a "safe space" where everyone shares the same opinions and agrees on the same things and walks on eggshells to avoid offending anyone and everyone. Don't go down this strawman character assassination road and begin baselessly accusing me of hating autistic people now.
Depends how the game panned out. If it was actually a "Good game", I feel like saying good game is totally acceptable. Good games consist of some back and forth and both players making active decisions during the game.
If it was a 1 sided crush fest, I try to be a bit more compassionate, and would appreciate the same from the opponent I just got crushed from. "Yeah, you were stuck on 2 lands, that really sucked." "Yeah, I drew perfect, I got lucky", etc. Saying "Good game" to a 2 lander game is just insulting.
I say "Good luck", generally before and after games of magic, just depends on the setting and how well I know my opponent.
This is pretty much the same way I handle it. If it was a good game, I'll say good game. If one of us was horribly unlucky/absurdly lucky I'll usually say something that acknowledges that in a polite way.
Methinks that this thread needs to be predictably locked. It feels like people are grasping at straws when a good percentage of people here can agree on several things - sportsmanship is important, we shouldn't hurt others' feelings, and each situation is different.
I seriously doubt that anyone in here is telling a player to "go out of their way" to be rude to your opponents. If so, what are you playing Magic for? (And I know for sure that I have offended people during and after Magic games before. All I can do now is try to improve myself during the few times when I am kind of a prick.)
*I'll leave with an example here.
I played in our Store Invitational, which had 3 rounds of Standard in the Swiss and Standard in the top 8. So I was forced to play a format that I hate with a passion. I played an opponent in Standard and he was tapped out when I took 15 seconds to make sure that I had enough mana to fetch for a land and then cast Become Immense, delving all of my graveyard, to win. He made a comment of "get out of here" as if I should have played much quicker. In the last game, there were a few instances in which I could win if I had Become Immense again. He asked me that if I had it, to just play it quickly. After the game he said that I should make those plays quicker. I told him that it was the first time that I had cast that spell, the first time that I had played Standard in 5 months, and I was playing a deck (Atarka Red) type that I have played maybe once (other than Treasure Cruise Burn) in my life in tournament play. He seemed to understand better, but I could care less because if I have the kill in an unfamiliar situation, I am going to slow down to make sure that I don't blow it. I doubt that we would go to "time" because an Atarka Red player took 15 seconds in one turn.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think it's depressing that this is devolving into some sort of political thread. I'm seeing keywords used by rightwing trolls on sites like Politico. I'm halfway expecting someone to call me a <libtard> soon.
You can't have it both ways, ok? It's very simple. If you want people to accept your good game, you should accept that others do not view these words as magically positive in all situations. I'll use a crude example - Chinese people point with their middle finger. They come to the US and start pointing at you with their middle finger. Are you going to get upset or are you going to be understanding that to him, this is a meaningless and actually polite gesture?
Also, what about using "Good luck in the next round" as an alternative? What's the problem there? Just that you want to say Good Game and people don't respond the same way to it? Such a lack of introspection...
In the end, if you're advocating for good game, you're being obtuse because you want to do this regardless of how the other person feels. If you tilt from these words, you're being obtuse because you want the other person to not say the words regardless of how they feel. Both sides of the same coin and all that.
Something that I've generally found to be true in life is that if you go around looking for things to be offended by, you'll usually find what you're looking for.
When someone says something to me, I don't generally assume that they have the worst possible intentions. If any of you want to say "Good Game" and offer a handshake to me, regardless of who won or how one-sided it was, I give you my word that I won't get mad about it. I might be disappointed that I lost (maybe even mad at myself if I made a game-changing misplay) and a little quiet, but it would be awfully immature of me to hold it against you if you offer up a polite convention with no negative intent. I have bigger concerns in life than to lose sleep over "Good Game".
I think it's depressing that this is devolving into some sort of political thread. I'm seeing keywords used by rightwing trolls on sites like Politico. I'm halfway expecting someone to call me a libtard soon.
I don't really agree with your view on the whole Good Game thing, Quacker, but I do agree with you that it's pretty sad that people are using quasi-political language to discuss this. It's a sign of lazy thinking.
I think it's depressing that this is devolving into some sort of political thread. I'm seeing keywords used by rightwing trolls on sites like Politico. I'm halfway expecting someone to call me a <libtard> soon.
You can't have it both ways, ok? It's very simple. If you want people to accept your good game, you should accept that others do not view these words as magically positive in all situations. I'll use a crude example - Chinese people point with their middle finger. They come to the US and start pointing at you with their middle finger. Are you going to get upset or are you going to be understanding that to him, this is a meaningless and actually polite gesture?
Also, what about using "Good luck in the next round" as an alternative? What's the problem there? Just that you want to say Good Game and people don't respond the same way to it? Such a lack of introspection...
In the end, if you're advocating for good game, you're being obtuse because you want to do this regardless of how the other person feels. If you tilt from these words, you're being obtuse because you want the other person to not say the words regardless of how they feel. Both sides of the same coin and all that.
Please don't bring American politics in to this, that is another straw man road that doesn't need to happen and has nothing to do with this "issue" of some people getting offended by "good game" and taking it personally and assuming it's negative. I hope that you don't think the term "straw man" has to do with modern American politics. The term straw man refers to the logical fallacy. Here is a list of all logical fallacies and hopefully you will avoid them while in a debate! https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
Also, "Good luck" or "good luck in the next round" can be construed as equally negative to people who are offended by "good game". They might think for example you are saying it like "Good luck, your deck sucks so you will need it". You can't control if people take your words negatively and get offended. What is the catch all phrase that will offend no one? Should someone who wins just sit there in awkward silence and wait for their opponent to do something before speaking?
I Go for a "Good luck, have fun" at the start, and assess the situation at the end, generally end with a hand shake and a comment on the game:
-If I get curbstomped I go for a "That's a nice deck!"
-If S/He got mana screwed I try to be supportive.
-If I got lucky I mention it "That XXX really helped me" or the like.
-If the guy made an obvious mistake I'll try to point it out in a friendly manner.
I try to avoid commenting on situations that cost me games such as mana screw, mana flood, bad draws, etc. As I feel they make me sound a bit sour.
Last weekend during Gameday a guy got DQ'd cause he knocked off his opponents hand when he went for a hand shake after the game. I found it funny and sad at the same time.
I've always said good luck and offered a handshake before a match, and say "good game" and offer my hand regardless if I win or lose, even if I get destroyed. I usually tell them good luck in the next round too, if they win or lose, and I mean it genuinely-if I lose, I atleast hope the guy who beat me does well.
However, apparently in Magic etiquette, saying GG is impolite and rude for whatever reason...
What is the polite way to act after a game of magic, just sit there and say nothing?
I do notice that sometimes after I win, my opponent gets really butthurt and it's akward. I try to be polite, but they just sit there in silence and butthurt. Should I just sit there akwardly too and wait for them to leave? It's really weird.
I play basketball and used to play competitive sports growing up. Saying "good game" to your opponent and the end of a game was just a normal and basic thing. Even if the guy I'm guarding lights me up and shuts me down offensively, I tell him good game after the game and go for a fist bump. When I say GG in magic, it's not meant as a passive aggressive attack or anything, I just try to show basic decency and politeness and good sportsmanship.
What is universally considered the right way to act after a game of Magic? Am I expected to baby people who get emotional from losing a game of magic, and not say good game to them because it might set them off?
How do you act when your opponent is visibly upset? Do you just get up and leave without saying anything? That seems so awkward. Isn't leaving and saying nothing more impolite and rude than saying good game to your opponent?
I have quite the number of opinions on this topic... so I'll try to condense it for the OP. This replies covers basically your stand throughout the entire thread, and not only the first post - it's quoted for convenience.
You're right about the parts where people shouldn't overreact to the term "Good Game". However, your emphasis on "Good Game" being a "Social Norm and Basic Courtesy" is wrong - you merely imported it over from other competitive games, most of which don't have a major factor of randomness/luck in it (sports and chess, for example).
Once you add that factor in, "Social Norms and Basic Courtesy" changes. Yes, you say that "people should accept it when playing the game and stop throwing tantrums", but you didn't consider it yourself when you established your "Social Norms and Basic Courtesy". Like I said earlier, you simply imported it over. You didn't accept that the game has a major randomness/luck factor and therefore the terms of "Social Norms and Basic Courtesy" should change along with it, you imported it over and justified it with "Basic Courtesy I use across the board".
You didn't think about the "Reasons/Logic/Empathy" behind "Social Norms and Basic Courtesy", which changes depending on the game/scenario. "Basic Courtesy" is not a justification, it's the logic and empathy behind every scenario that justifies what would be the "Basic Courtesy" for that scenario. I'm not saying any of the above justifies opponents throwing tantrums, but neither is your opponent's response(s) a justification to whether your usage of the term is correct, or a "Basic Courtesy" at all.
For something I tried to shorten, that wasn't very short at all... let's try it again: Basically I'm saying "Good Game" is not considered a "Basic Courtesy" across all games and players, no matter how frequently you use it yourself and your opponent's response is not a factor in this at all. You don't have to change yourself to cater to anything, but at the same time, nothing you do or say will change the fact that "Good Game" isn't a "Basic Courtesy" across all games and players.
EDIT: After reading my own post after a while, I found it'll be better to clarify that this was not intended to be offensive (funnily enough, the same way you don't mean anything offensive you using "Good Game"), but simply pointing out your constant use of "Good Game is a Basic Courtesy I use all the time" is not as "Basic" or widespread as you would like it to be with other people.
This comes up a lot. Of the hundreds of sports/games I've played Magic is the only one I've come across where people somehow find a way to complain about someone saying good game. I delved deeper and found that the vast majority of those that were saying they didn't like "good game" had very little experience in anything competitive outside of online gaming which can also lack the "human interaction" of face to face competition. In any case if you want to say good game there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with that. If someone wants to be an ass about it then that's their problem.
What is universally considered the right way to act after a game of Magic? Am I expected to baby people who get emotional from losing a game of magic, and not say good game to them because it might set them off?
There is no universally accepted right action to take, it is a mistake to think one-size-fits-all will work in this case.
The trouble with "good game" is that it might not have been a good game so the message can seem insincere. If that guy who shut you down and lit you up at basketball came over to you after the game and said "hey, you played really well" would you take him seriously? "Good game" can have the same effect.
You're never going to get a positive response from everyone you beat (or everyone who beats you), but you'll do better if you don't try to use the same phrase every time, change it up depending on what you've learned from your opponent during your games. Interpersonal skills.
"Good luck today", "Enjoy your day", "That was a fun match", "I like your deck, hope you do well with it", or any of a host of other things could do the trick. Any of these could be taken the wrong way by someone who is bummed by a loss.
One thing not to do (that we're probably all guilty of doing from time to time) is to bemoan your poor draws or that you flooded or that you missed land drops even though you're playing 28 in your deck. People don't want to hear that the only reason you won is because they got unlucky.
What is universally considered the right way to act after a game of Magic? Am I expected to baby people who get emotional from losing a game of magic, and not say good game to them because it might set them off?
There is no universally accepted right action to take, it is a mistake to think one-size-fits-all will work in this case.
The trouble with "good game" is that it might not have been a good game so the message can seem insincere. If that guy who shut you down and lit you up at basketball came over to you after the game and said "hey, you played really well" would you take him seriously? "Good game" can have the same effect.
Yes I'd take it sincerely. If I knew I played my best and couldn't compete, I'd accept the fact he is levels above me. I'd also take it as a positive sign of acknowledgement that this guy who is 100 times better than me and destroyed me still had the courtesy and respect to say "good game" at the end. Why is there any reason to take "good game" negatively and insincerely? Not everyone is out to get you and passive aggressively bully you.
There is nothing insincere about good game. What makes a game "good" is entirely subjective, so you cannot use the argument "if it wasn't a good game you're full of ***** for saying GG".
In football when you loose you have to shake hands on the 50 yard line after you just got your can kicked. It sucks but you'll remember that feeling of loosing and you'll work your butt off all next week to make sure it doesn't happen again. I take failure as a point of motivation to up my game. Most games I loose are because of play mistakes or bad Mulligan decisions and that's on me. Some players are rude so I just zone them out. I don't take it to heart if a players good game is sincere or not.
What is universally considered the right way to act after a game of Magic? Am I expected to baby people who get emotional from losing a game of magic, and not say good game to them because it might set them off?
There is no universally accepted right action to take, it is a mistake to think one-size-fits-all will work in this case.
The trouble with "good game" is that it might not have been a good game so the message can seem insincere. If that guy who shut you down and lit you up at basketball came over to you after the game and said "hey, you played really well" would you take him seriously? "Good game" can have the same effect.
Yes I'd take it sincerely. If I knew I played my best and couldn't compete, I'd accept the fact he is levels above me. I'd also take it as a positive sign of acknowledgement that this guy who is 100 times better than me and destroyed me still had the courtesy and respect to say "good game" at the end. Why is there any reason to take "good game" negatively and insincerely? Not everyone is out to get you and passive aggressively bully you.
There is nothing insincere about good game. What makes a game "good" is entirely subjective, so you cannot use the argument "if it wasn't a good game you're full of ***** for saying GG".
Let's acknowledge that there are games that are not good, at least not good from the perspective of both sides.
You may be absolutely sincere when you say "good game". But, if I made what I consider to be a misplay that I really shouldn't have, I might not consider it a good game. Or, if someone was rude. Or, if someone was very slow. Or, if my deck was a bad choice for the day. Any number of things could make it a bad game for me. And, while I'm sitting there just having lost the game, I might be focused on those things.
I don't think I have ever taken offense from a "good game" offered by my opponent. But, I can understand why it might happen. You're not going to be able to require a positive reaction from every offer of "good game". Either live with the occasional negative reaction, or try to understand and adjust your comments for the specific opponent. Ultimately, you're not going to be able to please all the people all the time.
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"Because we cannot prevent draws in paper Magic we allow IDs. If we could prevent draws we would not have IDs in paper Magic. " Scott Larabee.
What is universally considered the right way to act after a game of Magic? Am I expected to baby people who get emotional from losing a game of magic, and not say good game to them because it might set them off?
There is no universally accepted right action to take, it is a mistake to think one-size-fits-all will work in this case.
The trouble with "good game" is that it might not have been a good game so the message can seem insincere. If that guy who shut you down and lit you up at basketball came over to you after the game and said "hey, you played really well" would you take him seriously? "Good game" can have the same effect.
Yes I'd take it sincerely. If I knew I played my best and couldn't compete, I'd accept the fact he is levels above me. I'd also take it as a positive sign of acknowledgement that this guy who is 100 times better than me and destroyed me still had the courtesy and respect to say "good game" at the end. Why is there any reason to take "good game" negatively and insincerely? Not everyone is out to get you and passive aggressively bully you.
There is nothing insincere about good game. What makes a game "good" is entirely subjective, so you cannot use the argument "if it wasn't a good game you're full of ***** for saying GG".
Let's acknowledge that there are games that are not good, at least not good from the perspective of both sides.
You may be absolutely sincere when you say "good game". But, if I made what I consider to be a misplay that I really shouldn't have, I might not consider it a good game. Or, if someone was rude. Or, if someone was very slow. Or, if my deck was a bad choice for the day. Any number of things could make it a bad game for me. And, while I'm sitting there just having lost the game, I might be focused on those things.
I don't think I have ever taken offense from a "good game" offered by my opponent. But, I can understand why it might happen. You're not going to be able to require a positive reaction from every offer of "good game". Either live with the occasional negative reaction, or try to understand and adjust your comments for the specific opponent. Ultimately, you're not going to be able to please all the people all the time.
Good sportsmanship is being gracious in both defeat as well as victory.
Going by your line of thought, it is only appropriate to say good game when you draw all the cards you want to draw and play through the round with out making any mistakes. So essentially, in your view, it's only truly a "good game" if everything goes your way.
Not every one thinks this way. To some people, a game finishing within the time limits is enough to consider it a "good" game. To some people, simply the act of playing makes the game "good". The term "Good Game" is not offensive in any way, any more than the term "thank you" or "hello" is offensive.
On a side note, if the round finishes on time and you manage to get 3 games, what problem do you have with your opponent playing slowly? Sometimes I play slowly when I have to make tough decisions on plays. I don't try to play slowly but sometimes I like thinking out all possibilities before making a play. What is wrong with this?
The term "Good Game" is not offensive in any way, any more than the term "thank you" or "hello" is offensive.
Context is everything. I can imagine times when "thank you" and "hello" are intended to annoy.
You are right when you say: "not everyone thinks this way". But, I think it applies to not everyone thinking that "good game" can never be annoying.
On a side note, if the round finishes on time and you manage to get 3 games, what problem do you have with your opponent playing slowly? Sometimes I play slowly when I have to make tough decisions on plays. I don't try to play slowly but sometimes I like thinking out all possibilities before making a play. What is wrong with this?
There's playing slowly and there's playing slowly. I occasionally take more times than I should. Maybe my slow play in game 2 caused us to be rushed in game 3. I'm not saying that taking time to consider plays is wrong, but at some point the slow play is annoying and can be unfair.
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"Because we cannot prevent draws in paper Magic we allow IDs. If we could prevent draws we would not have IDs in paper Magic. " Scott Larabee.
The term "Good Game" is not offensive in any way, any more than the term "thank you" or "hello" is offensive.
Context is everything. I can imagine times when "thank you" and "hello" are intended to annoy.
You are right when you say: "not everyone thinks this way". But, I think it applies to not everyone thinking that "good game" can never be annoying.
On a side note, if the round finishes on time and you manage to get 3 games, what problem do you have with your opponent playing slowly? Sometimes I play slowly when I have to make tough decisions on plays. I don't try to play slowly but sometimes I like thinking out all possibilities before making a play. What is wrong with this?
There's playing slowly and there's playing slowly. I occasionally take more times than I should. Maybe my slow play in game 2 caused us to be rushed in game 3. I'm not saying that taking time to consider plays is wrong, but at some point the slow play is annoying and can be unfair.
Yes I definitely hate it if it seems people are stalling so it goes to time. I've personally never played anyone who seems like they're doing this but I've seen a lot of pro matches where it seems like they are purposefully going for time.
Every time one of these threads pops up I am amazed by some peoples' lack of empathy.
Also, I don't really think one's outlook on the world and the people in it should factor into post-match banter in a game of Magic, but I guess I'm just a well-adjusted person too polite.
I still don't think this thread contributes anything constructive into the way people approach end-game scenarios, but it's sometimes worth it to get another outside perspective from people who have played FAR more Magic than you or I.
It's a good intentionally misleading summary of his position, which is exactly what you were going for.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Ah, there's one now!
My current trade binder.
"People most likely to cry "troll" are those who can't fathom holding a position for reasons unrelated to how they want to be perceived"
How is it foolish to adjust what you say if it offends someone? So if someone you know tells you they don’t like something you say – you’ll just keep saying it?
And... You never adjust what you say based on the company you are in?
The world would be chaos if everyone just said what they felt; it’s akin to doing what they want.
We make adjustments as humans. We make adjustments to the society around us and what it expects of us. If you claim you never adjust what you say – you are a liar or a saint. And I'm sure you're not a saint.
Your stance seems to be that how your opponent feels about what you do or say isn't your business (I think that is generally true, except in extreme situations), but you insist on saying "good game." What is your motive in saying this thing?
what are you even talking about?
I have absolutely zero problem with autistic people. Hug Box means a "safe space" where everyone shares the same opinions and agrees on the same things and walks on eggshells to avoid offending anyone and everyone. Don't go down this strawman character assassination road and begin baselessly accusing me of hating autistic people now.
This is pretty much the same way I handle it. If it was a good game, I'll say good game. If one of us was horribly unlucky/absurdly lucky I'll usually say something that acknowledges that in a polite way.
I seriously doubt that anyone in here is telling a player to "go out of their way" to be rude to your opponents. If so, what are you playing Magic for? (And I know for sure that I have offended people during and after Magic games before. All I can do now is try to improve myself during the few times when I am kind of a prick.)
*I'll leave with an example here.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)You can't have it both ways, ok? It's very simple. If you want people to accept your good game, you should accept that others do not view these words as magically positive in all situations. I'll use a crude example - Chinese people point with their middle finger. They come to the US and start pointing at you with their middle finger. Are you going to get upset or are you going to be understanding that to him, this is a meaningless and actually polite gesture?
Also, what about using "Good luck in the next round" as an alternative? What's the problem there? Just that you want to say Good Game and people don't respond the same way to it? Such a lack of introspection...
In the end, if you're advocating for good game, you're being obtuse because you want to do this regardless of how the other person feels. If you tilt from these words, you're being obtuse because you want the other person to not say the words regardless of how they feel. Both sides of the same coin and all that.
When someone says something to me, I don't generally assume that they have the worst possible intentions. If any of you want to say "Good Game" and offer a handshake to me, regardless of who won or how one-sided it was, I give you my word that I won't get mad about it. I might be disappointed that I lost (maybe even mad at myself if I made a game-changing misplay) and a little quiet, but it would be awfully immature of me to hold it against you if you offer up a polite convention with no negative intent. I have bigger concerns in life than to lose sleep over "Good Game".
I don't really agree with your view on the whole Good Game thing, Quacker, but I do agree with you that it's pretty sad that people are using quasi-political language to discuss this. It's a sign of lazy thinking.
Please don't bring American politics in to this, that is another straw man road that doesn't need to happen and has nothing to do with this "issue" of some people getting offended by "good game" and taking it personally and assuming it's negative. I hope that you don't think the term "straw man" has to do with modern American politics. The term straw man refers to the logical fallacy. Here is a list of all logical fallacies and hopefully you will avoid them while in a debate! https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
Also, "Good luck" or "good luck in the next round" can be construed as equally negative to people who are offended by "good game". They might think for example you are saying it like "Good luck, your deck sucks so you will need it". You can't control if people take your words negatively and get offended. What is the catch all phrase that will offend no one? Should someone who wins just sit there in awkward silence and wait for their opponent to do something before speaking?
-If I get curbstomped I go for a "That's a nice deck!"
-If S/He got mana screwed I try to be supportive.
-If I got lucky I mention it "That XXX really helped me" or the like.
-If the guy made an obvious mistake I'll try to point it out in a friendly manner.
I try to avoid commenting on situations that cost me games such as mana screw, mana flood, bad draws, etc. As I feel they make me sound a bit sour.
Last weekend during Gameday a guy got DQ'd cause he knocked off his opponents hand when he went for a hand shake after the game. I found it funny and sad at the same time.
I have quite the number of opinions on this topic... so I'll try to condense it for the OP. This replies covers basically your stand throughout the entire thread, and not only the first post - it's quoted for convenience.
You're right about the parts where people shouldn't overreact to the term "Good Game". However, your emphasis on "Good Game" being a "Social Norm and Basic Courtesy" is wrong - you merely imported it over from other competitive games, most of which don't have a major factor of randomness/luck in it (sports and chess, for example).
Once you add that factor in, "Social Norms and Basic Courtesy" changes. Yes, you say that "people should accept it when playing the game and stop throwing tantrums", but you didn't consider it yourself when you established your "Social Norms and Basic Courtesy". Like I said earlier, you simply imported it over. You didn't accept that the game has a major randomness/luck factor and therefore the terms of "Social Norms and Basic Courtesy" should change along with it, you imported it over and justified it with "Basic Courtesy I use across the board".
You didn't think about the "Reasons/Logic/Empathy" behind "Social Norms and Basic Courtesy", which changes depending on the game/scenario. "Basic Courtesy" is not a justification, it's the logic and empathy behind every scenario that justifies what would be the "Basic Courtesy" for that scenario. I'm not saying any of the above justifies opponents throwing tantrums, but neither is your opponent's response(s) a justification to whether your usage of the term is correct, or a "Basic Courtesy" at all.
For something I tried to shorten, that wasn't very short at all... let's try it again: Basically I'm saying "Good Game" is not considered a "Basic Courtesy" across all games and players, no matter how frequently you use it yourself and your opponent's response is not a factor in this at all. You don't have to change yourself to cater to anything, but at the same time, nothing you do or say will change the fact that "Good Game" isn't a "Basic Courtesy" across all games and players.
EDIT: After reading my own post after a while, I found it'll be better to clarify that this was not intended to be offensive (funnily enough, the same way you don't mean anything offensive you using "Good Game"), but simply pointing out your constant use of "Good Game is a Basic Courtesy I use all the time" is not as "Basic" or widespread as you would like it to be with other people.
There is no universally accepted right action to take, it is a mistake to think one-size-fits-all will work in this case.
The trouble with "good game" is that it might not have been a good game so the message can seem insincere. If that guy who shut you down and lit you up at basketball came over to you after the game and said "hey, you played really well" would you take him seriously? "Good game" can have the same effect.
You're never going to get a positive response from everyone you beat (or everyone who beats you), but you'll do better if you don't try to use the same phrase every time, change it up depending on what you've learned from your opponent during your games. Interpersonal skills.
"Good luck today", "Enjoy your day", "That was a fun match", "I like your deck, hope you do well with it", or any of a host of other things could do the trick. Any of these could be taken the wrong way by someone who is bummed by a loss.
One thing not to do (that we're probably all guilty of doing from time to time) is to bemoan your poor draws or that you flooded or that you missed land drops even though you're playing 28 in your deck. People don't want to hear that the only reason you won is because they got unlucky.
Yes I'd take it sincerely. If I knew I played my best and couldn't compete, I'd accept the fact he is levels above me. I'd also take it as a positive sign of acknowledgement that this guy who is 100 times better than me and destroyed me still had the courtesy and respect to say "good game" at the end. Why is there any reason to take "good game" negatively and insincerely? Not everyone is out to get you and passive aggressively bully you.
There is nothing insincere about good game. What makes a game "good" is entirely subjective, so you cannot use the argument "if it wasn't a good game you're full of ***** for saying GG".
You may be absolutely sincere when you say "good game". But, if I made what I consider to be a misplay that I really shouldn't have, I might not consider it a good game. Or, if someone was rude. Or, if someone was very slow. Or, if my deck was a bad choice for the day. Any number of things could make it a bad game for me. And, while I'm sitting there just having lost the game, I might be focused on those things.
I don't think I have ever taken offense from a "good game" offered by my opponent. But, I can understand why it might happen. You're not going to be able to require a positive reaction from every offer of "good game". Either live with the occasional negative reaction, or try to understand and adjust your comments for the specific opponent. Ultimately, you're not going to be able to please all the people all the time.
Good sportsmanship is being gracious in both defeat as well as victory.
Going by your line of thought, it is only appropriate to say good game when you draw all the cards you want to draw and play through the round with out making any mistakes. So essentially, in your view, it's only truly a "good game" if everything goes your way.
Not every one thinks this way. To some people, a game finishing within the time limits is enough to consider it a "good" game. To some people, simply the act of playing makes the game "good". The term "Good Game" is not offensive in any way, any more than the term "thank you" or "hello" is offensive.
On a side note, if the round finishes on time and you manage to get 3 games, what problem do you have with your opponent playing slowly? Sometimes I play slowly when I have to make tough decisions on plays. I don't try to play slowly but sometimes I like thinking out all possibilities before making a play. What is wrong with this?
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Context is everything. I can imagine times when "thank you" and "hello" are intended to annoy.
You are right when you say: "not everyone thinks this way". But, I think it applies to not everyone thinking that "good game" can never be annoying.
There's playing slowly and there's playing slowly. I occasionally take more times than I should. Maybe my slow play in game 2 caused us to be rushed in game 3. I'm not saying that taking time to consider plays is wrong, but at some point the slow play is annoying and can be unfair.
Yes I definitely hate it if it seems people are stalling so it goes to time. I've personally never played anyone who seems like they're doing this but I've seen a lot of pro matches where it seems like they are purposefully going for time.
Also, I don't really think one's outlook on the world and the people in it should factor into post-match banter in a game of Magic, but I guess I'm just
a well-adjusted persontoo polite.Link here. Jump to 12:00.
Signature courtesy of Rivenor and Miraculous Recovery
EDH Altered Cards by Galspanic (Seriously, this guy's awesome.)
My Pauper Cube
Tapped-Out Simulator
My Trade Thread
-Decks-
Commander:
GWR Rith, the Awakener RWG
U Kami of the Crescent Moon U (Flagship Deck)
BW Teysa, Orzhov Scion WB
Under Construction:
UBR Crosis, the Purger RBU
Cube:
WUBRGX Pauper XGRBUW
Then why do you say it?