In terms of more improvements, the biggest inefficiency in the ending layers is the Serra's Sanctum / Animist's Awakening part, which gets us 2 layers for 4 cards. Of course, if we remove it we would need to find 3 other layers somehow to improve. We do have copying of triggered abilities and artifact activations, so that may open up new possibilities.
Well since my lore broker start didn't use panharmonicon its not strictly needed, so Arcane adaptation is an option.
Thrumming stone ends up being pretty slot efficient right? I don't quite remember how it works though.
Edit: I don't think thrumming stone works as it gives the ripple trigger to the spells, so it'd need to be a tribal spell to work with the Harmonic prodigy. And there aren't very many options for those.
Edit2:Harmonic prodigy even only works on permanents, so thrumming stone doesn't look like it works at all :/
Relevant comp rule: 109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn't include the word "card," "spell," "source," or "scheme," it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.
Oh, right I thought that was solved by Coat of arms based computation not really working if everything is the same creature type, but we can just point two kegs at a big keg as a whole computation, then dack the damaged keg once we have flash again.
Can we wrap drafna's restoration and uproot/plow under into the same card? Though a more general card like Noxious revival hitting creatures and enchantments is probably a problem... not to mention the use of using it on the oppon-
Oh, we kinda have a problem, show and tell+uproot allows the opponent to draw their wastes forever and avoid decking.
Edit: is there another way to get started? tibalt's trickery is almost safe, but counters worldfires...
Oh, oof! Well, at the worst we can give up the land part of the layers, and drop to 9 layers I think. But, hopefully we can find a fix? I didn't see a card that could put a permanent into the library, but I might have missed something.
Of course Show and Tell can be replaced by Eureka, but that doesn't solve the problem. Another card we used before was Genesis Wave, but for that to work we needed Channel, which means we needed two additional green mana at the start. But, we need to keep green mana restricted if the goal is to try and keep that land part.
Hmm, we've realized that we don't need to update Busy Beaver, or update to Busy Beaver, all that frequently... we do need a hyperstage below it, but that can happen with any fixed number of layers, or even any fixed number of stages, above it. So I think so? We can afford to Retract between Busy Beavers, and we only need a fixed amount of mana for things like Urborg Syhpon-Mage and Soul Separator, so it should be okay.
Hmm we could imprint Artificial evolution on chrome mox for an extra mana, but then we have almost nothing in hand.
Yeah, we make so much more mana than we need with Mana echoes so I think this substitution is fine.
But, can lore broker even get started with mana vault?
Yes because vault is +2 mana so we don't need the mountain
Lotus, vault, Creative technique
Then continue as before.
Edit: oh Show and tell was what broke countering extra worldfires in the transition, so Tibalt's trickery might be safe after all if we want to use that instead.
Creative technique would still slowly eat through their library right? (edit: oh nonland) The exile is not optional and we cant get their wastes back into their hand/deck.
Trickery is difficult due to needing a target to counter. We don't really have a counterable spell for R so we'd need an extra card for artificial evolution or something.
leaving us with two cards left, not enough for using Lore Broker probably. Still, we can give up Lore Broker and drop down to 10 layers, which seems like our best option at the moment.
Edit: Oh wait, we don't need Omniscience in our hand. Is 3 cards enough for Lore Broker?
It looks like Tibalt's Trickery is enough to handle everything we need to counter, except for possibly Aegis Automaton. Aegis Automaton is tricky, I'll have to think about it.
I think Floating-Dream Zubera would be the one we want, but we may not be able to get started with just 3 cards. Between Words of Wisdom and Sphinx of Enlightenment, I think the Sphinx probably winds up ahead, but it would be worth investigating.
The problem with sphinx is that its difficult to make more of them, as bouncing it is expensive. I guess we could kill it and make tokens via soul seperator, but then we need to get consecrated sphinx out of the yard too...
Hmm, yeah that is a problem. and plagues a lot of the ways we can cheat omniscience into play. Back to show and tell then?
Maybe there's an alternative to the plow under effect? Can't we just bounce the land and put it back on top with widespread panic?
But it'd need to be kind of expensive to work right, Crop sigil costs G which is a bit too expensive. Multani, yavimaya's avatar might work? It pays for itself through chrome mox, but needs both lands in play.
Edit: no just being a green creature makes too much green through bounce.
The thought was that multani going hand->imprint->grave->hand is neutral on green but requires an animist's awakening to get the second land back into play, so it doesn't go infinite with the worldfire transition.
But it can still be bounced for U/W mana and net green so it doesn't work.
Somehow there's nothing that bounces a nonbasic land.
Edit: the kamigawa moonfolk are kinda close too, though the two that return a pair of lands have bad effects Uyo, Silent prophet goes infinite copying animist's awakening Soratami seer is tricky but i think we can avoid decking ourselves with Wormfang behemoth Soratami mirror-mage looks like it works, but needs a third land.
Gah we can steal opponent's wastes so this does not work at all.
I guess we'll keep looking for how to get that 11th layer back; either find a replacement for Show and Tell, or find a way to get lots of land taps from a green mana that is compatible with Show and Tell.
It's gonna be hard to make Widespread Panic work for the opponent then - hard to give a spell or ability to the opponent. Sphinx Ambassador doesn't work either.
In terms of more improvements, the biggest inefficiency in the ending layers is the Serra's Sanctum / Animist's Awakening part, which gets us 2 layers for 4 cards. Of course, if we remove it we would need to find 3 other layers somehow to improve. We do have copying of triggered abilities and artifact activations, so that may open up new possibilities.
I thought for a second that Thrumming Stone might be back in play thanks to Harmonic Prodigy and Arcane Adaptation, but with AA out I guess Thrumming Stone is out again.
Thrumming stone ends up being pretty slot efficient right? I don't quite remember how it works though.
Edit: I don't think thrumming stone works as it gives the ripple trigger to the spells, so it'd need to be a tribal spell to work with the Harmonic prodigy. And there aren't very many options for those.
Edit2:Harmonic prodigy even only works on permanents, so thrumming stone doesn't look like it works at all :/
Relevant comp rule: 109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn't include the word "card," "spell," "source," or "scheme," it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.
Jfb pointed out that Arcane Adapation can give toughness to Goblin Boom Kegs, which can then be removed to kill them at the wrong time.
Can we wrap drafna's restoration and uproot/plow under into the same card? Though a more general card like Noxious revival hitting creatures and enchantments is probably a problem... not to mention the use of using it on the oppon-
Oh, we kinda have a problem, show and tell+uproot allows the opponent to draw their wastes forever and avoid decking.
Edit: is there another way to get started? tibalt's trickery is almost safe, but counters worldfires...
Of course Show and Tell can be replaced by Eureka, but that doesn't solve the problem. Another card we used before was Genesis Wave, but for that to work we needed Channel, which means we needed two additional green mana at the start. But, we need to keep green mana restricted if the goal is to try and keep that land part.
I dont think we can get there without another card though... Can Mana vault replace Mana echoes?
Yeah, we make so much more mana than we need with Mana echoes so I think this substitution is fine.
But, can lore broker even get started with mana vault?
Yes because vault is +2 mana so we don't need the mountain
Lotus, vault, Creative technique
Then continue as before.
Edit: oh Show and tell was what broke countering extra worldfires in the transition, so Tibalt's trickery might be safe after all if we want to use that instead.
But, Tibalt's Trickery looks good.
Creative technique would still slowly eat through their library right?(edit: oh nonland)The exile is not optional and we cant get their wastes back into their hand/deck.
Trickery is difficult due to needing a target to counter. We don't really have a counterable spell for R so we'd need an extra card for artificial evolution or something.
Black Lotus
{c]Mountain[/c]
Artificial Evolution
Tibalt's Trickery
Omniscience
leaving us with two cards left, not enough for using Lore Broker probably. Still, we can give up Lore Broker and drop down to 10 layers, which seems like our best option at the moment.
Edit: Oh wait, we don't need Omniscience in our hand. Is 3 cards enough for Lore Broker?
lore broker
sphinx
elixir
mill 1 draw 2
Archive
orrery?
use floating mana to activate elixir untap and reuse lore broker
mill 1 draw 5
dual nature
march of the machines
mana echoes
Aegis automaton?
retract
lets us make a chunk of mana and elixirs to lore broker some more
looks like it works, not sure what's optimal though.
Hmmm, with Tibalt's Trickery, can we drop Cephalid Shrine as well?
It looks like Tibalt's Trickery is enough to handle everything we need to counter, except for possibly Aegis Automaton. Aegis Automaton is tricky, I'll have to think about it.
However, now that there's no show and tell, maybe we'd want to use patron wizard? If we want to cut another blue creature.
Oh, wait then we can use like words of wisdom if that ends up better...
Words of wisdom we'd be able to slap Spellweaver volute on and be good to go.
Maybe there's an alternative to the plow under effect? Can't we just bounce the land and put it back on top with widespread panic?
But it'd need to be kind of expensive to work right, Crop sigil costs G which is a bit too expensive. Multani, yavimaya's avatar might work? It pays for itself through chrome mox, but needs both lands in play.
Edit: no just being a green creature makes too much green through bounce.
Crop Sigil will work I guess, it just doesn't get copied by Thousand-Year Storm. But, 10 layers is better than 9.
But it can still be bounced for U/W mana and net green so it doesn't work.
Somehow there's nothing that bounces a nonbasic land.
Edit: the kamigawa moonfolk are kinda close too, though the two that return a pair of lands have bad effects
Uyo, Silent prophet goes infinite copying animist's awakening
Soratami seer is tricky but i think we can avoid decking ourselves with Wormfang behemoth
Soratami mirror-mage looks like it works, but needs a third land.
Gah we can steal opponent's wastes so this does not work at all.
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Dack Fayden
13 Spellweaver Volute
14 Pull from Eternity
15 Copy enchantment
16 Dual Nature
17 Bloodbond March
18 Cephalid Shrine
19 Thousand-Year Storm
20 Mana Echoes
22 Soul Separator
23 Urborg Syphon-Mage
24 Thousand-Year Elixir
25 K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth
26 Lingering Souls
27 Drake Familiar
28 Safe Passage
29 Spellweaver Helix
30 Worldfire
31 Gravitic Punch
32 Gravitic Punch
33 Recoup
34 Journey for the Elixir
35 Mountain
36 Harmonic Prodigy
37 Panharmonicon
38 Wormfang Behemoth
39 Distorting Wake
40 Chrome Mox
42 Guardian of the Guildpact
43 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
44 Alhammarret's Archive
45 Black Lotus
46 Show and Tell
47 Omniscience
48 Sphinx of Enlightenment
49 Marchesa's smuggler
50 Serra's Sanctum
51 Crop Sigil
52 Blue Sun's Zenith
53 Consecrated Sphinx
54 Widespread Panic
55 Jester's Mask
56 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
57 World at war
58 Doubling Season
59 Drafna's Restoration
60 Floating-Dream Zubera
I guess we'll keep looking for how to get that 11th layer back; either find a replacement for Show and Tell, or find a way to get lots of land taps from a green mana that is compatible with Show and Tell.
We can easily then put it from hand on top with Widespread Panic as we shuffle enough with Journey for the elixir.
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Dack Fayden
13 Spellweaver Volute
14 Pull from Eternity
15 Copy Enchantment
16 Dual Nature
17 Bloodbond March
18 Cephalid Shrine
19 Thousand-Year Storm
20 Mana Echoes
22 Soul Separator
23 Urborg Syphon-Mage
24 Thousand-Year Elixir
25 K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth
26 Lingering Souls
27 Drake Familiar
28 Safe Passage
29 Spellweaver Helix
30 Worldfire
31 Gravitic Punch
32 Gravitic Punch
33 Recoup
34 Journey for the Elixir
35 Mountain
36 Harmonic Prodigy
37 Panharmonicon
38 Wormfang Behemoth
39 Distorting Wake
40 Chrome Mox
42 Guardian of the Guildpact
43 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
44 Alhammarret's Archive
45 Black Lotus
46 Show and Tell
47 Omniscience
48 Lore Broker
49 Marchesa's Smuggler
50 Serra's Sanctum
51 Animist's Awakening
52 Blue Sun's Zenith
53 Consecrated Sphinx
54 Widespread Panic
55 Jester's Mask
56 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
57 World at War
58 Doubling Season
59 Drafna's Restoration
60 Hallowed Ground
should be working 11 layers.
Edit wait widespread panic + Jester's mask isnt even a combo, we'd need to make then shuffle from an effect they control.
It's gonna be hard to make Widespread Panic work for the opponent then - hard to give a spell or ability to the opponent. Sphinx Ambassador doesn't work either.
I guess we go back to Tamiyo's Journal then.