but one other thing we should do before we get those minor optimizations and final slots too nailed down is verify that the start works.
Obviously we start with Chancellor, Forest, Mana Crypt, Eureka, Omniscience
But that's already 5 of our 7 starting cards
Sphinx into Words of wisdom gets us to 4,
but I'm not sure where to go from there
we need goblin dark dwellers to recast the words again.
I think we want to get karn and salvaging station going for infinite mana. Though we are still a ways off from using that to say make more sphinxes.
Then we can probably start drawing the rest of the combo pieces. We can mill the enchantments and get them back with skull of orm (maybe Crystal chimes better?)
I'm not sure if we want to do some tricks to get get a Mirrorworks token of Mirrorworks? (costing a card draw I think)
I don't think anything requires there to be tons of copies of artifacts before we get to metallurgeon?
We can recast Words of Wisdom with either Goblin Dark-Dwellers or Spellweaver Volute, but the Goblin is easier it looks like. I think it would be a good idea to draw Thousand-Year Storm and Vedalken Orrery, so that we can get some copies of Words of Wisdom, and have them just waiting on the stack, rather than having to repeatedly recast Words of Wisdom. That leaves one more card to draw. It could be an instant/sorcery so that we can get one more copy of Words of Wisdom; but it's hard to say whether or not that is worth it. At the very least, we can draw either 12 or 16 cards with the second Words of Wisdom cast.
Yeah Yarok doesn't quite work as is, and it doesnt even add much to the combo, unless we need multiple ETBs somewhere else? (Goblin dark dwellers makes enough battle crys with TYS.
I missed that the Volute also works to copy words of wisdom, so I am no longer concerned about the start working, just about being efficient. And for that we'd like to have more copies of sphinx in play so that the opponent's deck runs out as slowly as possible
Having tons of artifacts helps us gain more life from the divine congregation, and lets us be more efficient throughout the rest of the combo, Since we draw cards 2 at a time, hopefully one of them could be the extra mirrorworks without losing efficiency? (I think Skull of Orm helps here actually more than crystal chimes as though both save us from having to draw our enchantments, the chimes can't be returned with salvaging station and costs a draw, but we might not be able to make enough skulls early without making many via extra Mirrorworks triggers. Does that pan out?)
Looks like ~20 cards can just be milled or fetched, we should be able to draw the remaining ~40 by having our opponent no more than 8 extra times (with one sphinx we draw 4:1 and we will have more sphinxes before the end [though we don't really make copies of it very efficiently Mind's Eye might be better, we can certainly make a lot of copies of that])
Hmm, I guess we don't care about colorless mana costs since we have an infinite mana combo. So assuming one Mirrorworks in play, one playing of Skull of Orm will get us two retrievals of single enchantments, whereas one playing of Crystal Chimes will get us one retrieval of all enchantments. I guess we can just keep both in mind, and choose whichever is better as the start develops.
Edit: Oof, but the start is rougher. We can't afford to pay for the Mind's Eye, so the best we can do is play Thousand-Year Storm to draw 4 cards at the cost of the opponent drawing 2. It could still catch up, but it's not as obvious now.
Oof, yeah we don't have any mana to even activate karn so we need to draw the keyrune and karn and the station to get infinite colorless mana.
so drawing orrery, GDD, karn and keyrune lets us draw station and minds eye, and start drawing extra, but only a few at that point, and mind's eye missed mirrorworks that way.
I'm pretty sure that Mind's Eye will catch up, because we can make tons more of them vs sphinx (especially if we make a bunch of Mirrorworks).
Okay, so after we draw Salvaging Station and Mind's Eye, we have two copies of Words of Wisdom still on the stack. We draw Mirrorworks, Cowardice, and Smite the Monstrous. We play Mirrorworks and Cowardice, play Smite the Monstrous, and get four copies. Each one can bounce Mind's Eye, getting us 4 copies. So the last Words of Wisdom can draw 7 cards. That should be enough draw the remaining 20-30 cards we need to draw and more, so we should be able to get going after the 6th Words of Wisdom.
That's pretty good, although I'm not certain that we can't do better with Consecrated Sphinx.
We play our permanents, getting copies of our artifacts, and put Spellweaver Volute goes into play enchanting Smite the Monstrous. We cast [c}Acorn Harvest[/c], which triggers Spellweaver Volute to cast Smite the Monstrous. Smite the Monstrous goes into exile to join Words of Wisdom, and Spellweaver Volute goes to the graveyard, having nothing to enchant. We get 6 copies of Smite the Monstrous, and with Psychic Battle and Cowardice, we get 12 bounces of creatures of CMC 4 or more. We animate Mind's Eye and Mirror of Fate with Karn, Silver Golem. We can bounce Mind's Eye 12 times to get 12 more copies of Mind's Eye. We sacrifice the Mirror of Fate token to put Smite the Monstrous and Words of Wisdom back into the library. (It's easier to leave Words of Wisdom in exile at this point, I think.) Tap a Perpetual Timepiece to put Smite the Monstrous back in the graveyard. Tap a Skull of Orm to bring Spellweaver Volute back onto the battlefield, enchanting Smite the Monstrous. We now cast Divine Congregation, gaining 50 life I believe. (We can delay this if there is some reason we need to draw it later.) This triggers the Spellweaver Volute to cast Smite the Monstrous, and we get 8 copies, which we can use to bounce Mind's Eye 15 times, and Goblin Dark-Dwellers once. We have 32 copies of Mind's Eye now. Finally we replay Goblin Dark-Dwellers, and cast Words of Wisdom from the graveyard, getting 9 copies. We resolve the first, which triggers 32 draws of one card, followed by one draw of two cards.
I think that should be enough to get all of the remaining cards, and draw Reality Spasm several times with the 6th Words of Wisdom.
Yeah, that looks good, that's only 3 or so cards down from what the sphinx would give us, at that point (depending on how many of the same cards we draw). And we will be strictly gaining vs sphinx from here on because it is much easier to copy the artifact, so we will definitely be ahead by the time we draw the 20+ more cards to get us comboing at full power. Edit:this was in regards to #2158, havent looked at the #2159 line yet.
Another thing I kinda want to do is finish formalizing the stage level actions we can take, it will be easier to prove (or at least argue) that the line terminates that way. Though listing the rules like that is nice, I'm not sure how helpful they are to a reader, as they kind of only make sense if you have a background in both Magic, and computing. And even with that they get kind of confusing (my subrules didn't really help in that regard). I felt that being able to break down a stage combo in that way helped me understand, but this will be a much less elegant ruleset, and probably less helpful. Is it worth doing? Should I keep the subrules or have each action be its own rule?
So basic outline, skipping over rebuilding and other costs is actually kinda nice
Stage rules:
1. Spend a M to get x PB triggers
2*. Resolve a PB trigger to get x BBM triggers
3. Resolve a PB to increase x and gain flash
4. Resolve a BBM and then a PB trigger to generate one M
Hyperstage:
5. Resolve a BC to gain x M
6*. Spend a RFA to push R and then x BC on the stack
7. Resolve R to lose flash and all M and gain EE
8*. Lose EE to gain a RFA
Megastage:
9. Resolve CC to push R and then x BC on the stack
10*. Spend 4 life to put x CC on the stack
11. Resolve STM to lose flash, all M, all RFA and gain AR and 2 life
12. Lose AR to gain 2 life
Gigastage:
13. Resolve DC to gain x life
14*. Spend a green and 3 life to put WF then DC on the stack
15. Resolve WF to lose flash, all M, all RFA, go to 3 life, gain AR and gain forest
16*. Lose forest to gain a green
*=requires flash
Kind of funny that the refilling spells ended up abbreviating to BC CC and DC in order. (With Collar the Culprit)
Of course some of the rules like 6 and 8 probably require subrules to explain whats going on.
Edit:
Oh we can switch to Yarock and Army of the Damned with Aven Riftwatcher in that deck?
Edit: So, I'd like to take a look at a couple of other decks, to see if there are any other improvements that can be made. Here is a deck that uses Godtoucher as our hyperstage resource:
So, we use Godtoucher to bounce Boggart Mob rather than Razorfin Abolisher. Godtoucher can target Child of Alara, which is normally a bad thing. So, we replace using Mimic Vat as our way of creating tokens, with Soul Foundry. To imprint a creature card on a Soul Foundry, we discard it from our hand, so we need to bounce our creatures to imprint them rather than destroy them. That means we can get rid of Horobi, Death's Wail. However, Soul Foundry tokens don't normally come in with haste, so we have to add Telchor, Brudiclad Engineer to give them haste. Unfortunately, this means we can't have Mirrorworks, since that would give us hasted Metallurgeons. So we have to make do with one copy of each artifact at a time. One major problem is Mirror of Fate. I didn't see a good way to handle Mirror of Fate, so I switched to Pull from Eternity, cast using Izzet Guildmage. We also can't use Perpetual Timepiece to put cards back into the library, so I switched to using Broken Ambitions to both mill cards and counter spells, and using Canal Dredger to move cards from the graveyard to the library.
We also only have one copy of Soul Foundry? so making tokens requires a PB trigger in between. That might actually be preferable though from a preventing infinites perspective.
Izzet guildmage needs to be saved with mimic vat, but that seems possible. If a bit awkward?
The big issue I see is without Mirrorworks how are we getting Vedalken Orrery back in play after a transition? We can't even put it on mimic vat?
Oh yeah, that's a problem. One fix that we could do: Put Copper Gnomes into the deck. We can play and counter Copper Gnomes for Bloodbond March triggers, bring it back, then sacrifice it to put its ability on the stack. We then can do whichever transition, and after it is done we can resolve the ability to put Vedalken Orrery into play.
Hmm, I don't know how to deal with Izzet Guildmage either. Mimic Vat doesn't seem like enough, since we need a way to retrieve it. We can add Brace for Impact, for which we may possibly need Copy Enchantment. This puts the deck behind.
One thing I was wondering: Is there a way to get rid of Mimic Vat? Right now it is our method for creating more enchantments. If we could switch it out, we may have more possibilities for the stage sequence, since we wouldn't have to care about Engineered Explosives destroying things.
I thought of an old idea of using Splinter Twin to make copies, and Crown of the Ages to move it around. But, we would need the original enchantment to have haste in order to create a copy. Maybe add Maze Rusher, and just make copies of Bloodbond March? But, we're going way over on the number of cards.
Hmm, yeah i'm not seeing much that looks any better than mimic vat. The only one that seems even remotely possible is Cemetery Puca, but how are we getting copies of that?
Cards like Dual nature or Riku of two reflections seem likely conflict with the stage combos, in just what we we have Jade bearer goes infinite, Child of Alara kills itself, twice.
Another thought is clone effects like Phyrexian metamorph but those are too versatile.
The new MirrorMade is kind of close, but isn't enough.
And of course mass copy effects are even worse.
Edit: Having the puca copy one of the self copying creatures might work? In roughly decreasing cost we have a few that trigger on combat damage, then Pack Rat, Splitting Slime, Myr Propagator, Mishra's Self-replicator, sorcerer's broom and finally sprouting photohydra which probably goes infinite with every enabler because damage can kill other creatures. Probably the myr or the Assembly-Worker?
Hmm, if we make token copy of a Cemetary Puca that is copying something else, will the token copy have Cemetary Puca's ability?
Mirrormade is quite interesting! We can have it make a copy of an artifact like Perpetual Timepiece or Mirror of Fate, and then sacrifice it, since we are able to easily bring it back again. So, we don't need the Izzet Guildmage construction I don't think, and are able to save those extra cards.
This also removes our dependence on blue mana, but we need two colors to destroy Wirewood Herald anyway, and blue allows us to recast Omniscience without further assistance.
I'm pretty sure the copies we make will have the Puca's ability, I know this came up with Progenitor Mimic re-copying the token it made to get an extra token every upkeep. (checked with judge chat and it does work)
I hadn't been thinking about Mirrormade as just utility, but Mirrormade does look like it fixes the problem with izzet guildmage and helps with flash, though it doesn't look like quite enough to get there on it's own.
Hmm, but then we can make many copies of Cemetery Puca copying something else, but still with its ability. Then we can tap say a Karplusan Yeti token to destroy the nontoken Karplusan Yeti, and we can then turn all Cemetary Pucas into Karplusan Yetis.
Well they don't have haste. And we'd need to be careful about what we let die vs get bounced. (yeti can actually fight and kill things and itself so it would probably have to go)
Hmm, good point. But, I'm worried about something like having Cemetary Puca copy something cheap like Metallurgeon, and repeatedly destroy it to gain Mimic Vat tokens. Then we can destroy something like a Karplusan Yeti, and we will get hasted Yeti tokens.
And besides, this is for replacing vat in the soul foundry deck. As the way to copy enchantments. So I guess they would have haste from brudiclad ... So it seems hard to make work.
This one is a Stakfish special, and is quite a doozy. Basically, the idea was to make it more difficult to pass between zones to prevent infinities, and also use Chalice of the Void, so that we continually needed to bounce or destroy the Chalice to reset it to the appropriate level.
The above decklist had 8 stages!
Anyway, Stakfish gives a description in this post:
It was looking pretty good, but I found an unfortunate problem: Without Thousand-Year Storm, we don't have a way to recover from mass destruction after Child of Alara and Worldfire. We can carry over mana, but in our gigastage decks enchantment creation is bottlenecked by artifacts. And apparently Thousand-Year Storm goes infinite with this deck.
So, perhaps we could figure out that problem, or see if there's something we could salvage here.
Whew that is quite the tangle of a deck, I'm not comfortable with it yet, but I can kinda see what its trying to do. If everything worked what would the estimate be?
TYS does look like it goes infinite or at least interferes with the combos, we would need another way to count the number of actions that have happened.
I think there are a few cards that do so but none of them seem suitable. (the storm cards all suck,there are a few guys that can be big, and a few guys that make a lot of useless tokens I guess if colorless mana is the bottleneck we can make a bunch of mini eldrazi)
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So we have:
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death’s Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 Karn, Silver Golem
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Phantatog
14 Skull of Orm
15 Mirrorworks
16 Mana Crypt
17 Obelisk of Bant
18 Metallurgeon
19 Battle Cry
20 Rebuild
21 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
22 Boggart Mob
23 Razorfin Abolisher
24 Bramblewood Paragon
25 Jade Bearer
26 Verdant Succession
27 Engineered Explosives
28 Salvaging Station
30 Moan of the Unhallowed
31 K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth
32 Collar the Culprit
33 Child of Alara
34 Aven Riftwatcher
35 Ramosian Commander
36 Spellweaver Helix
37 Worldfire
38 Acorn Harvest
39 Acorn Harvest
40 Acorn Harvest
41 Molderhulk
42 Divine Congregation
43 Wormfang Behemoth
44 Forest
45 Eureka
46 Chancellor of the Tangle
47 Polluted Dead
48 Frightshroud Courier
50 Ghosthelm Courier
51 Devout Chaplain
52 Royal Assassin
53 Simian Spirit Guide
54 Goblin Kites
55 Old Man of the Sea
56 Karplusan Yeti
57 Reality Spasm
58 Thousand-Year Storm
59 Consecrated Sphinx
60 Words of Wisdom
Edit: It looks like the other two combos can be fixed as well, by adding a Sea Snidd / Reign of Chaos stage.
So we have:
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death’s Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 Karn, Silver Golem
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Phantatog
14 Skull of Orm
15 Mirrorworks
16 Mana Crypt
17 Obelisk of Bant
18 Metallurgeon
19 Battle Cry
20 Rebuild
21 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
22 Boggart Mob
23 Razorfin Abolisher
24 Bramblewood Paragon
25 Jade Bearer
26 Verdant Succession
27 Engineered Explosives
28 Salvaging Station
30 Moan of the Unhallowed
31 K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth
32 Smite the Monstrous
33 Child of Alara
34 Spirit Guardian
35 Iname as One
36 Spellweaver Helix
37 Worldfire
38 Acorn Harvest
39 Acorn Harvest
40 Acorn Harvest
41 Molderhulk
42 Divine Congregation
43 Wormfang Behemoth
44 Forest
45 Eureka
46 Chancellor of the Tangle
47 Polluted Dead
48 Frightshroud Courier
50 Ghosthelm Courier
51 Devout Chaplain
52 Royal Assassin
53 Old Man of the Sea
54 Sea Snidd
55 Reign of Chaos
56 Xathrid Gorgon
57 Reality Spasm
58 Thousand-Year Storm
59 Consecrated Sphinx
60 Words of Wisdom
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death’s Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 Karn, Silver Golem
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Phantatog
14 Skull of Orm
15 Mirrorworks
16 Mana Crypt
17 Obelisk of Bant
18 Metallurgeon
19 Battle Cry
20 Rebuild
21 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
22 Boggart Mob
23 Razorfin Abolisher
24 Bramblewood Paragon
25 Jade Bearer
26 Verdant Succession
27 Engineered Explosives
28 Salvaging Station
30 Moan of the Unhallowed
31 K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth
32 Smite the Monstrous
33 Child of Alara
34 Teroh's Faithful
35 Bruna, the Fading Light
36 Spellweaver Helix
37 Worldfire
38 Acorn Harvest
39 Acorn Harvest
40 Acorn Harvest
41 Molderhulk
42 Divine Congregation
43 Wormfang Behemoth
44 Forest
45 Eureka
46 Chancellor of the Tangle
47 Polluted Dead
48 Frightshroud Courier
50 Goblin Kites
51 Wilderness Hypnotist
52 Streambed Aquitects
53 Old Man of the Sea
54 Sea Snidd
55 Reign of Chaos
56 Xathrid Gorgon
57 Reality Spasm
58 Thousand-Year Storm
59 Consecrated Sphinx
60 Words of Wisdom
I think a small optimization could be to have an etb: gain 2 creature (Venerable Monk) and have it get doubled by Yarok, the desecrated
but one other thing we should do before we get those minor optimizations and final slots too nailed down is verify that the start works.
Obviously we start with Chancellor, Forest, Mana Crypt, Eureka, Omniscience
But that's already 5 of our 7 starting cards
Sphinx into Words of wisdom gets us to 4,
but I'm not sure where to go from there
we need goblin dark dwellers to recast the words again.
I think we want to get karn and salvaging station going for infinite mana. Though we are still a ways off from using that to say make more sphinxes.
Then we can probably start drawing the rest of the combo pieces. We can mill the enchantments and get them back with skull of orm (maybe Crystal chimes better?)
I'm not sure if we want to do some tricks to get get a Mirrorworks token of Mirrorworks? (costing a card draw I think)
I don't think anything requires there to be tons of copies of artifacts before we get to metallurgeon?
Hmm, that's a clever combo with Yarok. The problem is, we don't have a way to recycle Yarok, without adding say Goryo's Vengeance.
Well, I guess we could switch to Collar the Culprit?
We can recast Words of Wisdom with either Goblin Dark-Dwellers or Spellweaver Volute, but the Goblin is easier it looks like. I think it would be a good idea to draw Thousand-Year Storm and Vedalken Orrery, so that we can get some copies of Words of Wisdom, and have them just waiting on the stack, rather than having to repeatedly recast Words of Wisdom. That leaves one more card to draw. It could be an instant/sorcery so that we can get one more copy of Words of Wisdom; but it's hard to say whether or not that is worth it. At the very least, we can draw either 12 or 16 cards with the second Words of Wisdom cast.
Yeah, Crystal Chimes is at least as good as Skull of Orm, since we have Mirrorworks.
I don't *think* we need tons of artifacts, so it's probably not worth making a Mirrorworks token?
I missed that the Volute also works to copy words of wisdom, so I am no longer concerned about the start working, just about being efficient. And for that we'd like to have more copies of sphinx in play so that the opponent's deck runs out as slowly as possible
Having tons of artifacts helps us gain more life from the divine congregation, and lets us be more efficient throughout the rest of the combo, Since we draw cards 2 at a time, hopefully one of them could be the extra mirrorworks without losing efficiency? (I think Skull of Orm helps here actually more than crystal chimes as though both save us from having to draw our enchantments, the chimes can't be returned with salvaging station and costs a draw, but we might not be able to make enough skulls early without making many via extra Mirrorworks triggers. Does that pan out?)
Looks like ~20 cards can just be milled or fetched, we should be able to draw the remaining ~40 by having our opponent no more than 8 extra times (with one sphinx we draw 4:1 and we will have more sphinxes before the end [though we don't really make copies of it very efficiently Mind's Eye might be better, we can certainly make a lot of copies of that])
Edit: Ah yes, Mind's Eye may certainly be better!
Edit: Oof, but the start is rougher. We can't afford to pay for the Mind's Eye, so the best we can do is play Thousand-Year Storm to draw 4 cards at the cost of the opponent drawing 2. It could still catch up, but it's not as obvious now.
so drawing orrery, GDD, karn and keyrune lets us draw station and minds eye, and start drawing extra, but only a few at that point, and mind's eye missed mirrorworks that way.
I'm pretty sure that Mind's Eye will catch up, because we can make tons more of them vs sphinx (especially if we make a bunch of Mirrorworks).
That's pretty good, although I'm not certain that we can't do better with Consecrated Sphinx.
There's also Psychic Possession, but we can't make copies of it at all!
Because of that, I'm also thinking we don't have enough to get copies of Mirrorworks either.
So, the best I could find was the following: Psychic Battle, Spellweaver Volute, Acorn Harvest, Mirror of Fate, Perpetual Timepiece, Skull of Orm, and Divine Congregation.
We play our permanents, getting copies of our artifacts, and put Spellweaver Volute goes into play enchanting Smite the Monstrous. We cast [c}Acorn Harvest[/c], which triggers Spellweaver Volute to cast Smite the Monstrous. Smite the Monstrous goes into exile to join Words of Wisdom, and Spellweaver Volute goes to the graveyard, having nothing to enchant. We get 6 copies of Smite the Monstrous, and with Psychic Battle and Cowardice, we get 12 bounces of creatures of CMC 4 or more. We animate Mind's Eye and Mirror of Fate with Karn, Silver Golem. We can bounce Mind's Eye 12 times to get 12 more copies of Mind's Eye. We sacrifice the Mirror of Fate token to put Smite the Monstrous and Words of Wisdom back into the library. (It's easier to leave Words of Wisdom in exile at this point, I think.) Tap a Perpetual Timepiece to put Smite the Monstrous back in the graveyard. Tap a Skull of Orm to bring Spellweaver Volute back onto the battlefield, enchanting Smite the Monstrous. We now cast Divine Congregation, gaining 50 life I believe. (We can delay this if there is some reason we need to draw it later.) This triggers the Spellweaver Volute to cast Smite the Monstrous, and we get 8 copies, which we can use to bounce Mind's Eye 15 times, and Goblin Dark-Dwellers once. We have 32 copies of Mind's Eye now. Finally we replay Goblin Dark-Dwellers, and cast Words of Wisdom from the graveyard, getting 9 copies. We resolve the first, which triggers 32 draws of one card, followed by one draw of two cards.
I think that should be enough to get all of the remaining cards, and draw Reality Spasm several times with the 6th Words of Wisdom.
Another thing I kinda want to do is finish formalizing the stage level actions we can take, it will be easier to prove (or at least argue) that the line terminates that way. Though listing the rules like that is nice, I'm not sure how helpful they are to a reader, as they kind of only make sense if you have a background in both Magic, and computing. And even with that they get kind of confusing (my subrules didn't really help in that regard). I felt that being able to break down a stage combo in that way helped me understand, but this will be a much less elegant ruleset, and probably less helpful. Is it worth doing? Should I keep the subrules or have each action be its own rule?
Stage rules:
1. Spend a M to get x PB triggers
2*. Resolve a PB trigger to get x BBM triggers
3. Resolve a PB to increase x and gain flash
4. Resolve a BBM and then a PB trigger to generate one M
Hyperstage:
5. Resolve a BC to gain x M
6*. Spend a RFA to push R and then x BC on the stack
7. Resolve R to lose flash and all M and gain EE
8*. Lose EE to gain a RFA
Megastage:
9. Resolve CC to push R and then x BC on the stack
10*. Spend 4 life to put x CC on the stack
11. Resolve STM to lose flash, all M, all RFA and gain AR and 2 life
12. Lose AR to gain 2 life
Gigastage:
13. Resolve DC to gain x life
14*. Spend a green and 3 life to put WF then DC on the stack
15. Resolve WF to lose flash, all M, all RFA, go to 3 life, gain AR and gain forest
16*. Lose forest to gain a green
*=requires flash
Kind of funny that the refilling spells ended up abbreviating to BC CC and DC in order. (With Collar the Culprit)
Of course some of the rules like 6 and 8 probably require subrules to explain whats going on.
Edit:
Oh we can switch to Yarock and Army of the Damned with Aven Riftwatcher in that deck?
Edit: Rules are looking good!
Edit: So, I'd like to take a look at a couple of other decks, to see if there are any other improvements that can be made. Here is a deck that uses Godtoucher as our hyperstage resource:
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer
5 Bloodbond March
6 Broken Ambitions
7 Soul Foundry
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Pull from Eternity
11 Izzet Guildmage
12 Karn, Silver Golem
13 Canal Dredger
14 Mimic Vat
15 Phantatog
16 Skull of Orm
17 Mana Crypt
18 Azorius Keyrune
19 Metallurgeon
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
23 Boggart Mob
24 Godtoucher
25 Wirewood Herald
26 Engineered Explosives
27 Salvaging Station
29 Army of the Damned
30 K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth
31 Collar the Culprit
32 Thousand-Year Storm
33 Child of Alara
34 Aven Riftwatcher
35 Ramosian Commander
36 Spellweaver Helix
37 Worldfire
38 Acorn Harvest
39 Acorn Harvest
40 Yarok, the Desecrated
41 Molderhulk
42 Divine Congregation
43 Wormfang Behemoth
44 Forest
45 Eureka
46 Chancellor of the Tangle
47 Polluted Dead
48 Frightshroud Courier
50 Ghosthelm Courier
51 Devout Chaplain
52 Royal Assassin
53 Simian Spirit Guide
54 Goblin Kites
55 Old Man of the Sea
56 Karplusan Yeti
57 Reality Spasm
58 Military Intelligence
59 World at War
60 Words of Wisdom
So, we use Godtoucher to bounce Boggart Mob rather than Razorfin Abolisher. Godtoucher can target Child of Alara, which is normally a bad thing. So, we replace using Mimic Vat as our way of creating tokens, with Soul Foundry. To imprint a creature card on a Soul Foundry, we discard it from our hand, so we need to bounce our creatures to imprint them rather than destroy them. That means we can get rid of Horobi, Death's Wail. However, Soul Foundry tokens don't normally come in with haste, so we have to add Telchor, Brudiclad Engineer to give them haste. Unfortunately, this means we can't have Mirrorworks, since that would give us hasted Metallurgeons. So we have to make do with one copy of each artifact at a time. One major problem is Mirror of Fate. I didn't see a good way to handle Mirror of Fate, so I switched to Pull from Eternity, cast using Izzet Guildmage. We also can't use Perpetual Timepiece to put cards back into the library, so I switched to using Broken Ambitions to both mill cards and counter spells, and using Canal Dredger to move cards from the graveyard to the library.
Since we got rid of Horobi, Death's Wail, we can't use Godtoucher to destroy Child of Alara, so that seems okay.
Right now, it appears to save one card over the Razorfin Abolisher deck. But, there may very well be problems.
Why Canal Dredger? it seems strictly more awkward to use.Reito Lantern does it much better (ugh but can target the opponents pull from eternity cards).
We also only have one copy of Soul Foundry? so making tokens requires a PB trigger in between. That might actually be preferable though from a preventing infinites perspective.
Izzet guildmage needs to be saved with mimic vat, but that seems possible. If a bit awkward?
The big issue I see is without Mirrorworks how are we getting Vedalken Orrery back in play after a transition? We can't even put it on mimic vat?
But, that uses up a card slot, so the Godtoucher deck is now tied with the Razorfin Abolisher deck.
Hmm, I don't know how to deal with Izzet Guildmage either. Mimic Vat doesn't seem like enough, since we need a way to retrieve it. We can add Brace for Impact, for which we may possibly need Copy Enchantment. This puts the deck behind.
One thing I was wondering: Is there a way to get rid of Mimic Vat? Right now it is our method for creating more enchantments. If we could switch it out, we may have more possibilities for the stage sequence, since we wouldn't have to care about Engineered Explosives destroying things.
I thought of an old idea of using Splinter Twin to make copies, and Crown of the Ages to move it around. But, we would need the original enchantment to have haste in order to create a copy. Maybe add Maze Rusher, and just make copies of Bloodbond March? But, we're going way over on the number of cards.
Cards like Dual nature or Riku of two reflections seem likely conflict with the stage combos, in just what we we have Jade bearer goes infinite, Child of Alara kills itself, twice.
Another thought is clone effects like Phyrexian metamorph but those are too versatile.
The new MirrorMade is kind of close, but isn't enough.
And of course mass copy effects are even worse.
Edit: Having the puca copy one of the self copying creatures might work? In roughly decreasing cost we have a few that trigger on combat damage, then Pack Rat, Splitting Slime, Myr Propagator, Mishra's Self-replicator, sorcerer's broom and finally sprouting photohydra which probably goes infinite with every enabler because damage can kill other creatures. Probably the myr or the Assembly-Worker?
Mirrormade is quite interesting! We can have it make a copy of an artifact like Perpetual Timepiece or Mirror of Fate, and then sacrifice it, since we are able to easily bring it back again. So, we don't need the Izzet Guildmage construction I don't think, and are able to save those extra cards.
This also removes our dependence on blue mana, but we need two colors to destroy Wirewood Herald anyway, and blue allows us to recast Omniscience without further assistance.
I hadn't been thinking about Mirrormade as just utility, but Mirrormade does look like it fixes the problem with izzet guildmage and helps with flash, though it doesn't look like quite enough to get there on it's own.
And besides, this is for replacing vat in the soul foundry deck. As the way to copy enchantments. So I guess they would have haste from brudiclad ... So it seems hard to make work.
So, after adding Copper Gnomes, and switching out the Izzet Guildmage configuration for the original configuration with Mirrormade, it looks like the deck is currently tied with the Razorfin Abolisher deck.
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Soul Foundry
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 Mirrormade
12 Karn, Silver Golem
13 Perpetual Timepiece
14 Mimic Vat
15 Phantatog
16 Skull of Orm
17 Mana Crypt
18 Azorius Keyrune
19 Metallurgeon
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
23 Boggart Mob
24 Godtoucher
25 Wirewood Herald
26 Engineered Explosives
27 Salvaging Station
28 Copper Gnomes
30 Army of the Damned
31 K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth
32 Collar the Culprit
33 Child of Alara
34 Aven Riftwatcher
35 Ramosian Commander
36 Spellweaver Helix
37 Worldfire
38 Acorn Harvest
39 Acorn Harvest
40 Yarok, the Desecrated
41 Molderhulk
42 Divine Congregation
43 Wormfang Behemoth
44 Forest
45 Eureka
46 Chancellor of the Tangle
47 Polluted Dead
48 Frightshroud Courier
50 Ghosthelm Courier
51 Devout Chaplain
52 Royal Assassin
53 Simian Spirit Guide
54 Goblin Kites
55 Old Man of the Sea
56 Karplusan Yeti
57 Reality Spasm
58 Thousand-Year Storm
59 Consecrated Sphinx
60 Words of Wisdom
Okay, I'd like to take a look at one more deck:
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death's Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Chalice of the Void
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 Karn, Silver Golem
12 Millikin
13 Phantatog
14 Mirrorworks
15 Mana Vault
16 Simic Keyrune
17 Skull of Orm
18 Clockwork Gnomes
19 Goryo's Vengeance
20 Muzzio, Visionary Architect
21 Muzzio, Visionary Architect
22 Hurkyl's Recall
23 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
24 Changeling Hero
25 Anaba Ancestor
26 Engineered Explosives
27 Myr Welder
29 Acorn Harvest
30 Smite the Monstrous
31 Child of Alara
32 Centaur Safeguard
33 Verdant Succession
34 Spellweaver Helix
35 Worldfire
36 Spider Spawning
37 Spider Spawning
38 Spider Spawning
39 Titania, Protector of Argoth
40 Multani's Decree
41 Bayou
42 Eureka
43 Elvish Spirit Guide
44 Vastwood Animist
45 Grassland Crusader
46 Western Paladin
47 Frightshroud Courier
49 Ghosthelm Courier
50 Devout Chaplain
51 Royal Assassin
52 Simian Spirit Guide
53 Goblin Kites
54 Old Man of the Sea
55 Sea Snidd
56 Reign of Chaos
57 Xathrid Gorgon
58 Reality Spasm
59 Precursor Golem
60 Reforge the Soul
This one is a Stakfish special, and is quite a doozy. Basically, the idea was to make it more difficult to pass between zones to prevent infinities, and also use Chalice of the Void, so that we continually needed to bounce or destroy the Chalice to reset it to the appropriate level.
The above decklist had 8 stages!
Anyway, Stakfish gives a description in this post:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/615089-most-turn-1-damage-in-a-deck-with-no-infinite?comment=1871
It was looking pretty good, but I found an unfortunate problem: Without Thousand-Year Storm, we don't have a way to recover from mass destruction after Child of Alara and Worldfire. We can carry over mana, but in our gigastage decks enchantment creation is bottlenecked by artifacts. And apparently Thousand-Year Storm goes infinite with this deck.
So, perhaps we could figure out that problem, or see if there's something we could salvage here.
TYS does look like it goes infinite or at least interferes with the combos, we would need another way to count the number of actions that have happened.
I think there are a few cards that do so but none of them seem suitable. (the storm cards all suck,there are a few guys that can be big, and a few guys that make a lot of useless tokens I guess if colorless mana is the bottleneck we can make a bunch of mini eldrazi)