Splice is a problematic mechanic, because it only works at all with cards from the same set: instants and sorceries with the Arcane subtype. However, it doesn't have to. Here's the CR on Splice:
702.46. Splice
702.46a Splice is a static ability that functions while a card is in your hand. “Splice onto [subtype] [cost]” means “You may reveal this card from your hand as you cast a [subtype] spell. If you do, copy this card’s text box onto that spell and pay [cost] as an additional cost to play that spell.” Paying a card’s splice cost follows the rules for paying additional costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e–g.
Example: Since the card with splice remains in the player’s hand, it can later be played normally or spliced onto another spell. It can even be discarded to pay a “discard a card” cost of the spell it’s spliced onto.
702.46b You can’t choose to use a splice ability if you can’t make the required choices (targets, etc.) for that card’s instructions. You can’t splice any one card onto the same spell more than once. If you’re splicing more than one card onto a spell, reveal them all at once and choose the order in which their instructions will be followed. The instructions on the main spell have to be followed first.
702.46c The spell has the characteristics of the main spell, plus the text boxes of each of the spliced cards. The spell doesn’t gain any other characteristics (name, mana cost, color, supertypes, card types, subtypes, etc.) of the spliced cards. Text copied onto the spell that refers to a card by name refers to the spell on the stack, not the card from which the text was copied.
Example: Glacial Ray is a red card with splice onto Arcane that reads, “Glacial Ray deals 2 damage to target creature or player.” Suppose Glacial Ray is spliced onto Reach Through Mists, a blue spell. The spell is still blue, and Reach Through Mists deals the damage. This means that the ability can target a creature with protection from red and deal 2 damage to that creature.
702.46d Choose targets for the added text normally (see rule 601.2c). Note that a spell with one or more targets will be countered if all of its targets are illegal on resolution.
702.46e The spell loses any splice changes once it leaves the stack (for example, when it’s countered, it’s exiled, or it resolves).
The rules, as they currently stand, do not mandate "Splice onto Arcane" but rather allow for things such as "Splice onto Aura" or "Splice onto Human." Granted, splicing onto a permanent spell might be confusing for some people, but as 702.46e says, the permanent wouldn't have any of the splice text; you'd simply resolve those effects alongside resolving the permanent spell.
If Splice got reprinted in a new block, but it used subtypes that were rather more common than Arcane, do you think it might be more well-received?
Arcane could come back outside of a revisit, but would need a very heavy DnD feel to it's magic me thinks. I like splice on just Arcane spells, my biggest issue is you didn't get rewarded enough for playing with them. There were no enchantments or creatures that said "All Arcane spells in your hand have "Splice into Arcane". This ability is equal to their mana cost. Just this would have made Arcane spell much better, and splice more fun. It would be even better if there were another creature/enchantment that added the Arcane sub type to all instants and sorcery spells you controlled. A man can dream right?
If splice would simply work for each instant/sorcery it would be pretty solid mechanic to work with.
But even then, it costs extra mana and it requires a lot of spells.
But it could work pretty well with some really cheap and re-usable spells, stuff like Life from the Loam, Darkblast or just Retrace Spells, alongside free spells ala Githaxian Probe.
However, theres a big potential for combos with splice, as copies of the spells actual have the text aswell, which is kinda wonky.
If splice would simply work for each instant/sorcery it would be pretty solid mechanic to work with.
Unfortunately, as it stands, you splice onto subtypes, not onto types. "Splice onto Instant" doesn't work under the current rules, while "Splice onto Human" does.
Yeah, it really won't work unless they go with Splice onto Instant/Sorcery. It'd give the cards with Splice an added utility. The cards would have to be decent by their own right. Something like Lightning Strike with Splice for a slightly higher cost (Say, 2R) would be useable for sure in Standard.
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Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
It would be cool if you could splice onto a land type, ala Splice into Mountain. Makes for some really interesting decision making and gives your late game land draws more potential utility, kind of like landfall.
It would be cool if you could splice onto a land type, ala Splice into Mountain. Makes for some really interesting decision making and gives your late game land draws more potential utility, kind of like landfall.
But lands aren't spells. Splice only works with spells.
Some alternative splice costs would be neat to have as well.Sacrificing creatures, discarding cards, life payment. These things would make the mechanic more varied and, IMO, much more fun.
It would be cool if you could splice onto a land type, ala Splice into Mountain. Makes for some really interesting decision making and gives your late game land draws more potential utility, kind of like landfall.
But lands aren't spells. Splice only works with spells.
Sure. But this thread is about hypotheticals, and it seems obvious that splicing onto super-types is the #1 way to fix the mechanic's parasitic problem (which I agree is its major issue, as flavor/playwise it is cool). It is easy to imagine them eventually redoing it and making that change.
It would be cool if you could splice onto a land type, ala Splice into Mountain. Makes for some really interesting decision making and gives your late game land draws more potential utility, kind of like landfall.
But lands aren't spells. Splice only works with spells.
Sure. But this thread is about hypotheticals, and it seems obvious that splicing onto super-types is the #1 way to fix the mechanic's parasitic problem (which I agree is its major issue, as flavor/playwise it is cool). It is easy to imagine them eventually redoing it and making that change.
I just believe that splice needs a "Lord" effect. As I said earlier, if there was a creature like Goblin Electromancer that gave all instants and sorcery's you cast the Arcane sub type, or gave all Arcane spells splice, it would be a much better mechanic. I could see a card like that in a Commander set, but unless we go back to Kamigawa, or go to a plane were Arcane/splice was usable, I just don't see it happening. Which is sad, as a really enjoy the idea, even if it is parasitic.
If splice would simply work for each instant/sorcery it would be pretty solid mechanic to work with.
Unfortunately, as it stands, you splice onto subtypes, not onto types. "Splice onto Instant" doesn't work under the current rules, while "Splice onto Human" does.
As it is, there is a rules-friendly way of putting spells on permanents: Triggered and activated abilities. But now you're talking about banding-class reminder text.
Though you could splice it onto Blades of Velis Vel (which is, of course, a human) with no problem.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
It would be cool if you could splice onto a land type, ala Splice into Mountain. Makes for some really interesting decision making and gives your late game land draws more potential utility, kind of like landfall.
But lands aren't spells. Splice only works with spells.
Sure. But this thread is about hypotheticals, and it seems obvious that splicing onto super-types is the #1 way to fix the mechanic's parasitic problem (which I agree is its major issue, as flavor/playwise it is cool). It is easy to imagine them eventually redoing it and making that change.
I just believe that splice needs a "Lord" effect. As I said earlier, if there was a creature like Goblin Electromancer that gave all instants and sorcery's you cast the Arcane sub type, or gave all Arcane spells splice, it would be a much better mechanic. I could see a card like that in a Commander set, but unless we go back to Kamigawa, or go to a plane were Arcane/splice was usable, I just don't see it happening. Which is sad, as a really enjoy the idea, even if it is parasitic.
I think it is more likely that we see Splice renamed/reworked to play off of Instants, Sorceries, etc...in a future block. Kind of like Chroma and Devotion. I like the lord idea, would have been cool to see that back in CoK.
If splice would simply work for each instant/sorcery it would be pretty solid mechanic to work with.
Unfortunately, as it stands, you splice onto subtypes, not onto types. "Splice onto Instant" doesn't work under the current rules, while "Splice onto Human" does.
On resolution of the spell, although it would be problematic to give non-aura permanent spells targets, so if that happened I'd expect the splice cards to not be things with targets, but rather something closer to Evermind, Desperate Ritual, Hideous Laughter, Spiritual Visit, etc.
Some alternative splice costs would be neat to have as well.Sacrificing creatures, discarding cards, life payment. These things would make the mechanic more varied and, IMO, much more fun.
It would be cool if you could splice onto a land type, ala Splice into Mountain. Makes for some really interesting decision making and gives your late game land draws more potential utility, kind of like landfall.
But lands aren't spells. Splice only works with spells.
Sure. But this thread is about hypotheticals, and it seems obvious that splicing onto super-types is the #1 way to fix the mechanic's parasitic problem (which I agree is its major issue, as flavor/playwise it is cool). It is easy to imagine them eventually redoing it and making that change.
I assume you mean splicing onto types, not onto supertypes. (Supertypes are like "Basic" and "Legendary", types are like "Instant" and "Creature".)
I could see splice getting rewritten to work on types, but there's no way it would be rewritten to work on lands. It would be a completely different mechanic.
unless we go back to Kamigawa, or go to a plane were Arcane/splice was usable, I just don't see it happening.
I could see a revamped Splice showing up when we continue New Phyrexia's storyline (whether it's actually taking place on New Phyrexia or a different invasion target). Splicing seems completely in-theme for the Phyrexians (they even had a cycle of "Splicer" creatures), so if anyone got such a revamped Splice, I think it would be them.
I think splice was an excellent mechanic in of it self. However, it was very poorly implemented, and fell very short on what it could have been. I would like to see a return of Arcane, and possibly another subtype to go with Sorcery and Instant spells. (Divine/Nature?)
Wizards has a very nasty habit of showcasing mechanics 5-15 cards and than forgetting the mechanic claiming that it isn't broad enough or something along those lines, then turning around and re-releasing broken mechanics all over the place.
Splice when it was released was very narrowly implemented, however it had a lot of room for it to grow. It was one of the very few parasitic mechanics that could have actually been a good mechanic if more attention would have been paid to it.
Splice into humans RW1 - If this is spliced onto a creature card, that creature gains this cards abilities when it enters the battlefield instead.
Target creature gain First strike and haste until end of turn.
So, it removes the target when spiced onto a creature, and that creature gains the ability instead...
I like the idea of splicing on to permanent cards, but at this point it'd be different enough, mechanically, from original Splice that I'd think it'd be called something different.
I like the idea of splicing on to permanent cards, but at this point it'd be different enough, mechanically, from original Splice that I'd think it'd be called something different.
Strictly speaking, it wouldn't be mechanically different at all. The current rules already support it.
I like the idea of splicing on to permanent cards, but at this point it'd be different enough, mechanically, from original Splice that I'd think it'd be called something different.
Strictly speaking, it wouldn't be mechanically different at all. The current rules already support it.
I'm pretty sure they don't, though. Evoke, channel, and forecast (and I guess some cycling cards) are examples of how the rules cross the permanent/ephemeral streams. Channel and forecast are activated abilities; the cycling version is a triggered ability ("When you cycle CARDNAME..."). Evoke...the actual sorcery (or instant in some rare cases) is a triggered ability, though evoking itself is a spell. (And evoke also triggers things like Algae Gharial and Aura Shards.)
None of this is exactly the same as what you're suggesting.
Someone will have to ask Matt, I guess.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
When people are thinking of spicing onto permanents, are you thinking more of
Splice onto Human- Effect that lasts this turn
or
Splice onto Human- Consistent effect?
Because I feel like the nature of having the card in your hand might make the second situation hard to manage (unless it's something blatant like "Put 2 +1/+1 counters")
The issue with having Splice work for any instant or sorcery is that you can pack your deck with cheap cantrips to re-use your splice effects over and over again, kinda like how Kiln Fiend is used. They could give the cards high splice costs, but then who's going to bother splicing them?
And for splicing onto permanents: The current rules say that the effect only lasts until the spell leaves the stack. I'm pretty sure the rules don't support a permanent spell doing something as it resolves (besides putting itself onto the battlefield), so it would have to be Genesis Hydra-type effects, which would be kinda weird. A Glaical Ray with Splice onto Human, for example, would have to be worded like this:
Human Ray 1R
Instant
When you cast Human Ray, Human Ray deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Splice onto Human 1R
and then you've got a spell literally does nothing upon resolution. Also, it's practically uncounterable.
So implementing splice for permanents would pretty much require a rules change.
EDIT: This doesn't mean it's not going to happen. Remember: Wizards changed the functionality of Delve with the release of Khans, despite the fact that no Khans cards require the new functionality to work! If they want to make "Splice onto Human", they will change the rules to make it work (though probably only with EtB effects due to memory issues).
EDIT EDIT: Though this does raise the additional issue of splicing onto Human sorceries and instants. I think the best solution would be to create a new keyword (or ability word) for Splice onto Permament. Which is entirely possible
I'd rather see the splice onto permanent route pursued though. Splice on to instant or sorcery is just ASKING to be broken in like storm, delver or burn.
There's no reason why the rules entry for splice couldn't be changed from "splice onto [subtype]" to "splice onto [type or subtype]". A card with "splice onto [type that isn't a subtype]" doesn't need to exist for the rules to have such an addition.
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When people are thinking of spicing onto permanents, are you thinking more of
Splice onto Human- Effect that lasts this turn
or
Splice onto Human- Consistent effect?
Because I feel like the nature of having the card in your hand might make the second situation hard to manage (unless it's something blatant like "Put 2 +1/+1 counters")
Without changing Splice, it would have to be a one-shot effect; the spliced-on text only exists on the stack.
I'm pretty sure the rules don't support a permanent spell doing something as it resolves (besides putting itself onto the battlefield), so it would have to be Genesis Hydra-type effects, which would be kinda weird. A Glaical Ray with Splice onto Human, for example, would have to be worded like this:
Human Ray 1R
Instant
When you cast Human Ray, Human Ray deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Splice onto Human 1R
I honestly can't think of a rule that prevents a permanent spell from having an effect on resolution beyond putting the card onto the battlefield. That said, I believe any Splice onto [permanent subtype] cards would necessarily not have targets (except potentially Splice onto Aura), since permanent spells (other than Auras) don't have targets. So, more along the lines of Humanmind than Human Ray.
and then you've got a spell literally does nothing upon resolution.
Well, we already have spells that sometimes do literally nothing on resolution, such as Batwing Brume if you spend neither nor to cast (eg, cast for free, or using other colors via Mycosynth Lattice).
This doesn't mean it's not going to happen. Remember: Wizards changed the functionality of Delve with the release of Khans, despite the fact that no Khans cards require the new functionality to work! If they want to make "Splice onto Human", they will change the rules to make it work (though probably only with EtB effects due to memory issues).
I was under the impression the Delve change was mirroring the Convoke change. In particular, prior to the changes you could "over-pay" (usually more useful with Convoke than Delve, though, for becomes-tapped or becomes-untapped triggers, or abilities) and it changes their interaction with Trinisphere.
I'm pretty sure the rules don't support a permanent spell doing something as it resolves (besides putting itself onto the battlefield), so it would have to be Genesis Hydra-type effects, which would be kinda weird. A Glaical Ray with Splice onto Human, for example, would have to be worded like this:
Human Ray 1R
Instant
When you cast Human Ray, Human Ray deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Splice onto Human 1R
I honestly can't think of a rule that prevents a permanent spell from having an effect on resolution beyond putting the card onto the battlefield. That said, I believe any Splice onto [permanent subtype] cards would necessarily not have targets (except potentially Splice onto Aura), since permanent spells (other than Auras) don't have targets. So, more along the lines of Humanmind than Human Ray.
While the rules probably don't say that you can't do that, they also probably aren't written to cover situations where it does happen. For example: If I spliced Snakemind onto Lorescale Coatl, does it get a counter upon resolving? It depends on whether the effect happens before the creature is put onto the battlefield, which right now doesn't need to be covered by the rules because it can't happen.
and then you've got a spell literally does nothing upon resolution.
Well, we already have spells that sometimes do literally nothing on resolution, such as Batwing Brume if you spend neither nor to cast (eg, cast for free, or using other colors via Mycosynth Lattice).
Wrath of God does nothing if there are no creature on the battlefield. But there are currently no instant or sorcery spells that will never have an effect when they resolve (Batwing Brume does do one thing, at least: It checks to see what colors were used to cast it).
This doesn't mean it's not going to happen. Remember: Wizards changed the functionality of Delve with the release of Khans, despite the fact that no Khans cards require the new functionality to work! If they want to make "Splice onto Human", they will change the rules to make it work (though probably only with EtB effects due to memory issues).
I was under the impression the Delve change was mirroring the Convoke change. In particular, prior to the changes you could "over-pay" (usually more useful with Convoke than Delve, though, for becomes-tapped or becomes-untapped triggers, or abilities) and it changes their interaction with Trinisphere.
The Trinisphere interaction existed before Khans, so there was no reason they had to make the change at that point (or at all). Mostly my point was that they are willing to change the rules about how an effect works.
The Trinisphere interaction existed before Khans, so there was no reason they had to make the change at that point (or at all). Mostly my point was that they are willing to change the rules about how an effect works.
Prior to the change, Convoke and Delve were cost-reduction effects. If you reduced the cost below 3 with a Trinisphere in play, you had to pay back up to 3. Now, tapping creatures or exiling cards generates mana for the spell, so Trinisphere doesn't care.
The rules, as they currently stand, do not mandate "Splice onto Arcane" but rather allow for things such as "Splice onto Aura" or "Splice onto Human." Granted, splicing onto a permanent spell might be confusing for some people, but as 702.46e says, the permanent wouldn't have any of the splice text; you'd simply resolve those effects alongside resolving the permanent spell.
If Splice got reprinted in a new block, but it used subtypes that were rather more common than Arcane, do you think it might be more well-received?
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But even then, it costs extra mana and it requires a lot of spells.
But it could work pretty well with some really cheap and re-usable spells, stuff like Life from the Loam, Darkblast or just Retrace Spells, alongside free spells ala Githaxian Probe.
However, theres a big potential for combos with splice, as copies of the spells actual have the text aswell, which is kinda wonky.
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unfortunately, it simply doesn't work with anything.
So, yes, I'd love to see it revisited with broader applications.
The ideal point, IMO, would be "Splice into [type]" spells
Splice into instant, artifact, creature, sorcery, etc, etc, etc.
If they ever decide on returning to Kamigawa, I'll be rooting for this to happen.
the main issue with "Splice into subtypes" is that 99,9% of the non permanent spells have no subtype whatsoever.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
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Sure. But this thread is about hypotheticals, and it seems obvious that splicing onto super-types is the #1 way to fix the mechanic's parasitic problem (which I agree is its major issue, as flavor/playwise it is cool). It is easy to imagine them eventually redoing it and making that change.
I just believe that splice needs a "Lord" effect. As I said earlier, if there was a creature like Goblin Electromancer that gave all instants and sorcery's you cast the Arcane sub type, or gave all Arcane spells splice, it would be a much better mechanic. I could see a card like that in a Commander set, but unless we go back to Kamigawa, or go to a plane were Arcane/splice was usable, I just don't see it happening. Which is sad, as a really enjoy the idea, even if it is parasitic.
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Actually, that mixes instant/sorcery subtypes with permanent (in this case, creature) subtypes. When does Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer shock a creature or player?
As it is, there is a rules-friendly way of putting spells on permanents: Triggered and activated abilities. But now you're talking about banding-class reminder text.
Though you could splice it onto Blades of Velis Vel (which is, of course, a human) with no problem.
On phasing:
I think it is more likely that we see Splice renamed/reworked to play off of Instants, Sorceries, etc...in a future block. Kind of like Chroma and Devotion. I like the lord idea, would have been cool to see that back in CoK.
Well...
- Horobi's Whisper
- Hundred-Talon Strike
- Roar of Jukai
- Torrent of Stone
- Veil of Secrecy
I assume you mean splicing onto types, not onto supertypes. (Supertypes are like "Basic" and "Legendary", types are like "Instant" and "Creature".)I could see splice getting rewritten to work on types, but there's no way it would be rewritten to work on lands. It would be a completely different mechanic.
I could see a revamped Splice showing up when we continue New Phyrexia's storyline (whether it's actually taking place on New Phyrexia or a different invasion target). Splicing seems completely in-theme for the Phyrexians (they even had a cycle of "Splicer" creatures), so if anyone got such a revamped Splice, I think it would be them.
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Wizards has a very nasty habit of showcasing mechanics 5-15 cards and than forgetting the mechanic claiming that it isn't broad enough or something along those lines, then turning around and re-releasing broken mechanics all over the place.
Splice when it was released was very narrowly implemented, however it had a lot of room for it to grow. It was one of the very few parasitic mechanics that could have actually been a good mechanic if more attention would have been paid to it.
Splice into humans RW1 - If this is spliced onto a creature card, that creature gains this cards abilities when it enters the battlefield instead.
Target creature gain First strike and haste until end of turn.
So, it removes the target when spiced onto a creature, and that creature gains the ability instead...
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I'm pretty sure they don't, though. Evoke, channel, and forecast (and I guess some cycling cards) are examples of how the rules cross the permanent/ephemeral streams. Channel and forecast are activated abilities; the cycling version is a triggered ability ("When you cycle CARDNAME..."). Evoke...the actual sorcery (or instant in some rare cases) is a triggered ability, though evoking itself is a spell. (And evoke also triggers things like Algae Gharial and Aura Shards.)
None of this is exactly the same as what you're suggesting.
Someone will have to ask Matt, I guess.
On phasing:
Splice onto Human- Effect that lasts this turn
or
Splice onto Human- Consistent effect?
Because I feel like the nature of having the card in your hand might make the second situation hard to manage (unless it's something blatant like "Put 2 +1/+1 counters")
And for splicing onto permanents: The current rules say that the effect only lasts until the spell leaves the stack. I'm pretty sure the rules don't support a permanent spell doing something as it resolves (besides putting itself onto the battlefield), so it would have to be Genesis Hydra-type effects, which would be kinda weird. A Glaical Ray with Splice onto Human, for example, would have to be worded like this:
Human Ray 1R
Instant
When you cast Human Ray, Human Ray deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Splice onto Human 1R
and then you've got a spell literally does nothing upon resolution. Also, it's practically uncounterable.
So implementing splice for permanents would pretty much require a rules change.
EDIT: This doesn't mean it's not going to happen. Remember: Wizards changed the functionality of Delve with the release of Khans, despite the fact that no Khans cards require the new functionality to work! If they want to make "Splice onto Human", they will change the rules to make it work (though probably only with EtB effects due to memory issues).
EDIT EDIT: Though this does raise the additional issue of splicing onto Human sorceries and instants. I think the best solution would be to create a new keyword (or ability word) for Splice onto Permament. Which is entirely possible
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I honestly can't think of a rule that prevents a permanent spell from having an effect on resolution beyond putting the card onto the battlefield. That said, I believe any Splice onto [permanent subtype] cards would necessarily not have targets (except potentially Splice onto Aura), since permanent spells (other than Auras) don't have targets. So, more along the lines of Humanmind than Human Ray.
Well, we already have spells that sometimes do literally nothing on resolution, such as Batwing Brume if you spend neither nor to cast (eg, cast for free, or using other colors via Mycosynth Lattice).
I was under the impression the Delve change was mirroring the Convoke change. In particular, prior to the changes you could "over-pay" (usually more useful with Convoke than Delve, though, for becomes-tapped or becomes-untapped triggers, or abilities) and it changes their interaction with Trinisphere.
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While the rules probably don't say that you can't do that, they also probably aren't written to cover situations where it does happen. For example: If I spliced Snakemind onto Lorescale Coatl, does it get a counter upon resolving? It depends on whether the effect happens before the creature is put onto the battlefield, which right now doesn't need to be covered by the rules because it can't happen.
Wrath of God does nothing if there are no creature on the battlefield. But there are currently no instant or sorcery spells that will never have an effect when they resolve (Batwing Brume does do one thing, at least: It checks to see what colors were used to cast it).
The Trinisphere interaction existed before Khans, so there was no reason they had to make the change at that point (or at all). Mostly my point was that they are willing to change the rules about how an effect works.
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