When I first began playing this game, I thought that mana pools emptied only at the end of a player's turn, as that idea made perfect sense to me.
Now I know that that is not the case, and that mana pools empty at the end of each phase and step of a players, turn, but I wonder why that is. What flavor explanation is there for that, and is there any good mechanical reason for that? I see no reason why a player cannot tap a land for mana at the beginning of their turn and keep that mana until the end of their turn. What does everyone else say about that?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
So that Rishadan Port can do anything. No card that disrupted a player's mana base in any way short of actually removing the sources of mana would work if mana stayed in pools throughout a turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
Another good argument for the change is that nobody knows what is a phase and what is a step. I myself can't tell you for example, if your draw for the turn is the draw step or the draw phase (I think it's the former, but not sure at all). With mana pool emptying at the end of both, that confusion doesn't matter.
when rishadan port was printed.. that rule either didnt exist or we didnt know about it.. but that card was considered total junk haha.. they were thrown around like basic lands
For the same reason damage goes away -- memory issues.
If mana were to stick around, you'd have to have counters to do so. When magic was designed, it was meant to be playable with _just_ the cards with as little bookkeeping as possible.
Imagine having mana stick around:
"I have 4 red, 2 blue, 1 white, one colorless, 3 green. I tap a forest for a green mana. I'll keep everything in my mana pool for now."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Rishadan Port was all over standard to the point where Tsabo's Web was printed specifically to hose it (with splash damage against Dust Bowl and Kor Haven). I'm guessing grossmotor's playgroup just didn't know how the game worked.
Being able to float mana from Lion's Eye Diamond through a draw step is exceedingly powerful with brainstorm and such running around. Lion's Eye Diamond is already good, but giving it the power to float through draw step makes it border Black Lotus even more closely.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
In the past the story held that if you held on to mana for too long you could hurt yourself or even get to the point where you were one of The Fallen. Obviously they removed the injury part of it (bye bye Mana burn) but you still can't hold Mana forever.
when rishadan port was printed.. that rule either didnt exist or we didnt know about it.. but that card was considered total junk haha.. they were thrown around like basic lands
Uh, what? Port has been the chase card from that set ever since it was printed.
when rishadan port was printed.. that rule either didnt exist or we didnt know about it.. but that card was considered total junk haha.. they were thrown around like basic lands
Rishadan Port was all over standard to the point where Tsabo's Web was printed specifically to hose it (with splash damage against Dust Bowl and Kor Haven). I'm guessing grossmotor's playgroup just didn't know how the game worked.
when rishadan port was printed.. that rule either didnt exist or we didnt know about it.. but that card was considered total junk haha.. they were thrown around like basic lands
Uh, what? Port has been the chase card from that set ever since it was printed.
It wasn't in the first month but quickly became chase.
I bought at least 10 of them plus a couple foils when they were AUD 7 (then USD 4-5). It was AUD 25 within 1 month or so of release.
So that Rishadan Port can do anything. No card that disrupted a player's mana base in any way short of actually removing the sources of mana would work if mana stayed in pools throughout a turn.
And it took Icy Manipulator out of the game for lands too. Every time I'd tap a land after the untap phase, my friend would tap his mana first as a fast effect and float the mana until he cast something. Glad for this rule change, but still miss mana burn.
So that Rishadan Port can do anything. No card that disrupted a player's mana base in any way short of actually removing the sources of mana would work if mana stayed in pools throughout a turn.
And it took Icy Manipulator out of the game for lands too. Every time I'd tap a land after the untap phase, my friend would tap his mana first as a fast effect and float the mana until he cast something. Glad for this rule change, but still miss mana burn.
As stated above, there was never a point in time where you could float mana during your upkeep phase into your main phase.
I think it just makes the game simpler for newer players. You generate mana when you need to use it, period. If it lasted all turn then you would often need to keep track of it and it would be easy to make bookkeeping errors in terms of how much mana someone had left for the turn.
Again, this is basically how it has always worked. Making it empty after steps just makes the combat phase a little stickier for a tiny subset of cards that generate mana at some point during the phase.
Rishadan Port was all over standard to the point where Tsabo's Web was printed specifically to hose it (with splash damage against Dust Bowl and Kor Haven). I'm guessing grossmotor's playgroup just didn't know how the game worked.
This would be more accurate. Port was the first card I remember hitting $20 while in standard.
I think it just makes the game simpler for newer players. You generate mana when you need to use it, period. If it lasted all turn then you would often need to keep track of it and it would be easy to make bookkeeping errors in terms of how much mana someone had left for the turn.
Again, this is basically how it has always worked. Making it empty after steps just makes the combat phase a little stickier for a tiny subset of cards that generate mana at some point during the phase.
The two biggest changes were mana not floating from untap to draw and mana not floating through combat. Braid of Fire got both buffed and nerfed with this rules change.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
This would be more accurate. Port was the first card I remember hitting $20 while in standard.
I recall Grinning Totem being around $20 for a time (I believe up until Tempest came out or shortly before) then it tanked into obscurity. Also, Stroke of Genius and Time Spiral were about $20 and $25 respectively right after Saga was released (before half the cards in the Academy deck were banned) but they fell and held at half that price ($10 and $13) shortly after.
But yeah, I'd agree from what I recall that Port was the first card to stabilize at $20 shortly after and remain throughout its standard presence. I remember hating the card too because it was the first card I remember (at least since Zuran Orb) seeing in literally EVERY deck I played against every week. I also remember not understanding why it was in every deck because I didn't think it was very powerful/useful (just annoying) until my friend told me if I don't play with it, I won't win.
So that Rishadan Port can do anything. No card that disrupted a player's mana base in any way short of actually removing the sources of mana would work if mana stayed in pools throughout a turn.
And it took Icy Manipulator out of the game for lands too. Every time I'd tap a land after the untap phase, my friend would tap his mana first as a fast effect and float the mana until he cast something. Glad for this rule change, but still miss mana burn.
So that Rishadan Port can do anything. No card that disrupted a player's mana base in any way short of actually removing the sources of mana would work if mana stayed in pools throughout a turn.
And it took Icy Manipulator out of the game for lands too. Every time I'd tap a land after the untap phase, my friend would tap his mana first as a fast effect and float the mana until he cast something. Glad for this rule change, but still miss mana burn.
As stated above, there was never a point in time where you could float mana during your upkeep phase into your main phase.
Well, back then we didn't even know there were defined stages of a turn... When you passed the turn, the opponent usually untapped and drew, not realizing there was a upkeep, untap, draw, main, ect... All I know is when I tried to use my Icy Manipulators after he untapped he just usually floated the mana.. I resorted to taking them out of my deck because of this.. In fact, at one of the first tournaments I attended.. circa late 1993, they even allowed this to happen. Oh well.
Mana drawn from any source is put in your mana pool, which is simply the mana you have ready to use. Most of the time, you simply remember what mana you have in your pool, though you can write it down if you have a large series of spells being cast. Adding mana to your mana pool is always considered an interrupt. You lose all of the mana in your mana pool if you do not use it before a phase ends. The mana pool is also cleared when an attack begins and when an attack ends. You lose a life point for each mana lost in this manner. However, you cannot be deprived of a chance to use the mana in your pool. If a card provides more than one mana, you must draw the full amount into your pool when you use it.
It was originally a check against certaincardsthatveteransmayremember. (Spoiler alert: It failed in that role.) Back then, you lost 1 life for each leftover mana. It was never all that relevant, so that rule was dropped. But keeping leftover mana has its own issues; it's important to remember that mana is the game's way of depicting time: Without help, you can only draw 1 card and play 1 land per turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
It was originally a check against certaincardsthatveteransmayremember. (Spoiler alert: It failed in that role.) Back then, you lost 1 life for each leftover mana. It was never all that relevant, so that rule was dropped. But keeping leftover mana has its own issues; it's important to remember that mana is the game's way of depicting time: Without help, you can only draw 1 card and play 1 land per turn.
You forgot one. My favorite "Magic The Puzzling" was one where you had over 100 mana in your pool and had to win.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
It gave us Upwelling, which was abysmal until mana burn went away. Although, using Upwelling just meant you needed to have outs to this floaty mana because people were not going to let you skate like a cool kid with 17 mana in your mana pool for long without a way to destroy it.
Kaervek's Torch anyone? Going back to my old timer EDH days.
The rule is a limit on resources. The game is structured entirely about the management of resources. You can argue that most truly "broken" permanents and spells are breaking the resource rules in flagrant and exciting ways.
Another good argument for the change is that nobody knows what is a phase and what is a step. I myself can't tell you for example, if your draw for the turn is the draw step or the draw phase (I think it's the former, but not sure at all). With mana pool emptying at the end of both, that confusion doesn't matter.
The phases are really easy: Beginning, Precombat Main, Combat, Postcombat Main, Ending. It shouldn't be too hard to remember that everything before the precombat main phase is bundled into a phase, as is everything between the two main phases, and everything after the postcombat main phase.
Beginning, Combat, and Ending phases are then broken up into steps. Untap/Upkeep/Draw steps compose the Beginning phase, Begin Combat/Declare Attackers/Declare Blockers/(First Strike*) Damage/End Combat steps compose the Combat phase, and End/Cleanup steps compose the Ending phase. (* First Strike Damage step only exists if a creature involved in combat has first strike or double strike)
when rishadan port was printed.. that rule either didnt exist or we didnt know about it.. but that card was considered total junk haha.. they were thrown around like basic lands
Thats so wrong. I stopped playing for a bit because all my games were "I'll Port your Port".
It was probably the most important card in the game at that time and one of the few chase rares in MM.
Now I know that that is not the case, and that mana pools empty at the end of each phase and step of a players, turn, but I wonder why that is. What flavor explanation is there for that, and is there any good mechanical reason for that? I see no reason why a player cannot tap a land for mana at the beginning of their turn and keep that mana until the end of their turn. What does everyone else say about that?
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
So that Rishadan Port can do anything. No card that disrupted a player's mana base in any way short of actually removing the sources of mana would work if mana stayed in pools throughout a turn.
If mana were to stick around, you'd have to have counters to do so. When magic was designed, it was meant to be playable with _just_ the cards with as little bookkeeping as possible.
Imagine having mana stick around:
"I have 4 red, 2 blue, 1 white, one colorless, 3 green. I tap a forest for a green mana. I'll keep everything in my mana pool for now."
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Uh, what? Port has been the chase card from that set ever since it was printed.
Agreed. I can remember it being a pretty integral part of Tinker Stax in old extended as well.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
It wasn't in the first month but quickly became chase.
I bought at least 10 of them plus a couple foils when they were AUD 7 (then USD 4-5). It was AUD 25 within 1 month or so of release.
And it took Icy Manipulator out of the game for lands too. Every time I'd tap a land after the untap phase, my friend would tap his mana first as a fast effect and float the mana until he cast something. Glad for this rule change, but still miss mana burn.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=517520
As stated above, there was never a point in time where you could float mana during your upkeep phase into your main phase.
Again, this is basically how it has always worked. Making it empty after steps just makes the combat phase a little stickier for a tiny subset of cards that generate mana at some point during the phase.
This would be more accurate. Port was the first card I remember hitting $20 while in standard.
The two biggest changes were mana not floating from untap to draw and mana not floating through combat. Braid of Fire got both buffed and nerfed with this rules change.
I recall Grinning Totem being around $20 for a time (I believe up until Tempest came out or shortly before) then it tanked into obscurity. Also, Stroke of Genius and Time Spiral were about $20 and $25 respectively right after Saga was released (before half the cards in the Academy deck were banned) but they fell and held at half that price ($10 and $13) shortly after.
But yeah, I'd agree from what I recall that Port was the first card to stabilize at $20 shortly after and remain throughout its standard presence. I remember hating the card too because it was the first card I remember (at least since Zuran Orb) seeing in literally EVERY deck I played against every week. I also remember not understanding why it was in every deck because I didn't think it was very powerful/useful (just annoying) until my friend told me if I don't play with it, I won't win.
Well, back then we didn't even know there were defined stages of a turn... When you passed the turn, the opponent usually untapped and drew, not realizing there was a upkeep, untap, draw, main, ect... All I know is when I tried to use my Icy Manipulators after he untapped he just usually floated the mana.. I resorted to taking them out of my deck because of this.. In fact, at one of the first tournaments I attended.. circa late 1993, they even allowed this to happen. Oh well.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=517520
The original rulebook seems pretty clear there were phases and mana emptied at tne end of each phase.
On phasing:
You forgot one. My favorite "Magic The Puzzling" was one where you had over 100 mana in your pool and had to win.
Kaervek's Torch anyone? Going back to my old timer EDH days.
The rule is a limit on resources. The game is structured entirely about the management of resources. You can argue that most truly "broken" permanents and spells are breaking the resource rules in flagrant and exciting ways.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
Beginning, Combat, and Ending phases are then broken up into steps. Untap/Upkeep/Draw steps compose the Beginning phase, Begin Combat/Declare Attackers/Declare Blockers/(First Strike*) Damage/End Combat steps compose the Combat phase, and End/Cleanup steps compose the Ending phase. (* First Strike Damage step only exists if a creature involved in combat has first strike or double strike)
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Thats so wrong. I stopped playing for a bit because all my games were "I'll Port your Port".
It was probably the most important card in the game at that time and one of the few chase rares in MM.
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR