I'm sure people aren't judging him from his artwork, more-so by his actual beliefs (which are reflected in his works and by accounts of people who know him). if you read up on him, it becomes pretty obvious that the guy has some screws loose.
And in modern society, there is no room for racism (ala Donald Sterling). We don't have to tolerate intolerant people anymore.
Like I said, his art is very good - he is very talented. I find it hard to dig deeper though, knowing the motivation behind the art is the expression of a deranged and troubled bigot.
Actually you do have to tolerate intolerant and unpleasant people, that's the entire point of free speech. The only thing Donald Sterling did wrong was share his private views in a private conversation which got leaked to the media by his attention seeking mistress because he offended her. Thus causing a knee jerk popular outcry which hurt the Clippers brand and the NBA which led to his recent mistreatment. God forbid an 80+ year old rich Jewish man is not going to be happy about his gold digging Latina girlfriend forcing him associate with young black people. Yeah its a stupid hang up, but things often are.
You know guys, that is a really delicate topic. Is it allowed to sort of "play around" with imagery reminiscent of Nazi symbolism?
A couple of years ago, there was an argument in here in Germany wether it is okay to make fun of the Nazi regime in general and specifically Adolf Hitler. I guess there is no right or wrong answer. Some people enjoy a humorous examination on the topic, while others don't. Comical movies about the "Fuhrer" have been shot by Chaplin and Helge Schneider, as well as very dark, serious, more documental pieces of film. Artistical expression sometimes is ambiguous and provocative, if only to get a reaction out of people.
For all I know, Arthur McNeil's portrayal of symbolism like that might as well be criticism of fascist regimes, fundamental beliefs etc (there are artist/bands who kind of play with similar - maybe not as extreme - imagery while being on the left wing side politically). It might also be...just an obsession with symbolism without a serious political mind behind it. Or he might be damn serious and is some sort of Neo Nazi. It's a bit like Schrödinger's cat...we can only guess until we know what his real beliefs are.
Well I think its important to note that he's an American, not a German so your country's inane censorship laws aren't really relevant. As far as I'm concerned Switzerland took a step in the right direction recently by legalizing the Hitler salute. I like my deluded hate groups to wear their affiliation on their sleeve if you pardon the pun. Makes it easier to tell when to cross the street and when to call the cops.
Anyone who thinks that you cannot judge an artist by their artwork is completely misguided. While no, you cannot judge them on a singular work taken out of context, you can however judge them on the sum total of their body of work. The vast majority of art an artist creates is NOT for commercial/financial benefit. Most of an artists works are an expression of their being. Would you let a guy who paints erotic nudes of eleven year old girls babysit your daughter? Just saying....I would not. The saying goes "if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck". I knew Harold, and his usage of nazi imagery was not critical, nor was it ironic. His works bely what is in his heart and mind. I'm not guessing, I know. I spent a good amount of time conversing with him at the Cafe Paradiso or at his home. The man firmly believes in and supports things that I just can't get behind. That said I do enjoy his art, funny that.
@Georg51, you're right on the money.
@A Vile Saint, Harold's thoughts and opinions are not difficult to learn. A little google search is all you need.
The hooded figure from Invoke Prejudice might not be representational of a klansman. He may have been inspired by the Spanish festival known as Semana Santa and the costumes worn by the Nazarenos.
Ultimately he might be a moron but he's presumably a law abiding moron and if it stays that way there's no issue. Anyhow I don't think his style has any place in Magic: the Gathering and frankly that's probably more important to me than what his views are. I don't particularly like Invoke Prejudice as a magic card aesthetically and his other art is not fitting with the brand. If they ever reprint the card it should get new art.
I'm sure people aren't judging him from his artwork, more-so by his actual beliefs (which are reflected in his works and by accounts of people who know him). if you read up on him, it becomes pretty obvious that the guy has some screws loose.
And in modern society, there is no room for racism (ala Donald Sterling). We don't have to tolerate intolerant people anymore.
Like I said, his art is very good - he is very talented. I find it hard to dig deeper though, knowing the motivation behind the art is the expression of a deranged and troubled bigot.
Actually you do have to tolerate intolerant and unpleasant people, that's the entire point of free speech. The only thing Donald Sterling did wrong was share his private views in a private conversation which got leaked to the media by his attention seeking mistress because he offended her.
I think you misunderstand "Free Speech" and my notion of tolerance. Without going into a deep philosophical debate, I'll just say that 'Free Speech' does not mean that you can just say what you want without fear of consequences. Sterling didn't break the law, but the social consequences for being a moronic bigot should be expected when you express views that are frowned upon by the majority of society.
The same is said for Harold Mcniel. He is 'free' to have his views, share them with us, and express them in his art. That doesn't mean we have to accept it or support it. I'm all for freedom, I'm a Libertarian, but I also know there is a difference between "Freedom of Speech" and understanding the consequences of having/sharing intolerant or hateful beliefs.
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
I'm sure people aren't judging him from his artwork, more-so by his actual beliefs (which are reflected in his works and by accounts of people who know him). if you read up on him, it becomes pretty obvious that the guy has some screws loose.
And in modern society, there is no room for racism (ala Donald Sterling). We don't have to tolerate intolerant people anymore.
Like I said, his art is very good - he is very talented. I find it hard to dig deeper though, knowing the motivation behind the art is the expression of a deranged and troubled bigot.
Actually you do have to tolerate intolerant and unpleasant people, that's the entire point of free speech. The only thing Donald Sterling did wrong was share his private views in a private conversation which got leaked to the media by his attention seeking mistress because he offended her.
I think you misunderstand "Free Speech" and my notion of tolerance. Without going into a deep philosophical debate, I'll just say that 'Free Speech' does not mean that you can just say what you want without fear of consequences. Sterling didn't break the law, but the social consequences for being a moronic bigot should be expected when you express views that are frowned upon by the majority of society.
The same is said for Harold Mcniel. He is 'free' to have his views, share them with us, and express them in his art. That doesn't mean we have to accept it or support it. I'm all for freedom, I'm a Libertarian, but I also know there is a difference between "Freedom of Speech" and understanding the consequences of having/sharing intolerant or hateful beliefs.
Pretty sure there was an xkcd expressing exactly that fact.
Why should he expect to lose his job and reputation over something he said in private? Why should he expect her to be recording their conversations and having ulterior motives? Why should he be expected to be a good or reasonable person? Why is he held to higher scrutiny and higher standards than the average citizen?
If he was like the CEO of Chick-Fil-A and he made policies and remarks in the public forum that's a fair point. Although in that case the flack he drew probably helped his business because the consumers of Chick-Fil-A are social conservative leaning and they supported his views on homosexuality.
So yeah I'm not going to give my business to McNeil (its not something I'd hang on my wall) but I don't care what he paints or who buys his art. I don't ask the guy in the fast food window what religion he is or where he comes from or what party he belongs to and if he tells me I'll tell him to shut his mouth and give me my Quesadilla, not report him to the Inquisition.
Why should he expect to lose his job and reputation over something he said in private? Why should he expect her to be recording their conversations and having ulterior motives? Why should he be expected to be a good or reasonable person? Why is he held to higher scrutiny and higher standards than the average citizen?
If he was like the CEO of Chick-Fil-A and he made policies and remarks in the public forum that's a fair point. Although in that case the flack he drew probably helped his business because the consumers of Chick-Fil-A are social conservative leaning and they supported his views on homosexuality.
This is getting off topic. Harold McNeil (you know, the guy this thread is about) has made his opinions easily accessible through his website and myspace. And while one might argue that putting anything on myspace is clearly an effort to hide it from public eyes, he's certainly not having his personal views secretly recorded or anything.
I don't see the big deal. Harold McNeil can do, believe, and do as he pleases as long it does not infringe upon any one else liberties. I don't see the fuss, if they can make good art enough said. I think seeing more art like this would be cool. Compared to a lot of the newer art that is produced for cards today.
I don't see the big deal. Harold McNeil can do, believe, and do as he pleases as long it does not infringe upon any one else liberties. I don't see the fuss, if they can make good art enough said. I think seeing more art like this would be cool. Compared to a lot of the newer art that is produced for cards today.
I don't disagree that his art is pretty cool. I think there's a good chance that his racism is part of why he's not been asked to do a magic card since 1997, though. Which is too bad for him, at least.
Why should he expect to lose his job and reputation over something he said in private? Why should he expect her to be recording their conversations and having ulterior motives? Why should he be expected to be a good or reasonable person? Why is he held to higher scrutiny and higher standards than the average citizen?
If he was like the CEO of Chick-Fil-A and he made policies and remarks in the public forum that's a fair point. Although in that case the flack he drew probably helped his business because the consumers of Chick-Fil-A are social conservative leaning and they supported his views on homosexuality.
This is getting off topic. Harold McNeil (you know, the guy this thread is about) has made his opinions easily accessible through his website and myspace. And while one might argue that putting anything on myspace is clearly an effort to hide it from public eyes, he's certainly not having his personal views secretly recorded or anything.
I think it was obvious I was talking about Donald Sterling. Which Georg brought up, not me.
There are plenty of Magic players who just like to be difficult and argumentative. This thread is perfect evidence of that.
The guy has very clearly made his pro-Nazi and pro-Hitler beliefs clear in a number of mediums, not just through his art. While his art by itself could arguably be a poor attempt at satire, the guy makes no attempt to hide his beliefs elsewhere.
Agreed. His cop black made me think his art was actually good. invoke prejudice is mostly just weird, but it does obviously catch that attention nowadays thanks to the price tag.
Is his art good? If yes, then keep calm and carry on.
Trust me, there are so many despicable people that have existed that have made interesting pieces of art (paintings, music, tv shows, comic books, etc) that if one were to feel offended by the creator, you wouldn't be able to enjoy as many things that have been made that many people enjoy. like Micheal Jackson's music for instance, people do enjoy his songs despite the "scandals" that went on. Songs like Thriller, Just Beat It, Smooth Criminal, etc. So just relax, enjoy the creations even if you don't enjoy the creator. Am I defending the creator? Not really, I am defending his creations so people can understand the point I am trying to get across.
I am just horrified, not hateful... only increasing any wish to die to leave such a place, where any can be so soulless and heartless over a game... ashamed I ever did art for Magic the Gathering, given the creepy crack addict aspect of many... H.
Jesus H Christ OP, you and every hand-wringing WASP-y mother should hang out and write morally indignant letters to the editor together. The irony here is that your reaction is partially the point of such art. Stick to Bob Ross and Thomas Kinkade, definitely would be more your style.
To be fair, I haven't done more than flip through the gallery. Nothing especially amazing or horrifying there, though I actually liked the Jesus/Hitler faux woodblock thing. The play on the christian concept of the redemptive blood of Christ and the Nazi trope of "blood and honor" is pretty apt, even funny.
I'm sure people aren't judging him from his artwork, more-so by his actual beliefs (which are reflected in his works and by accounts of people who know him). if you read up on him, it becomes pretty obvious that the guy has some screws loose.
And in modern society, there is no room for racism (ala Donald Sterling). We don't have to tolerate intolerant people anymore.
Like I said, his art is very good - he is very talented. I find it hard to dig deeper though, knowing the motivation behind the art is the expression of a deranged and troubled bigot.
By not being tolerant of intolerant people doesn't that make you intolerant?
Jesus H Christ OP, you and every hand-wringing WASP-y mother should hang out and write morally indignant letters to the editor together. The irony here is that your reaction is partially the point of such art. Stick to Bob Ross and Thomas Kinkade, definitely would be more your style.
To be fair, I haven't done more than flip through the gallery. Nothing especially amazing or horrifying there, though I actually liked the Jesus/Hitler faux woodblock thing. The play on the christian concept of the redemptive blood of Christ and the Nazi trope of "blood and honor" is pretty apt, even funny.
Definitely charging in and showing everyone how edgy you are without reading any of the other posts was definitely the smart way to go. We're all very impressed.
The man is absolutely a racist, while his art for the most part isn't proof positive, there's loads of stuff on his myspace and personal anecdotes that confirm his strong segregational beliefs. antisemitism, and Nazi sympathy.
I mean, that's not necessarily cause to freak out or anything, there are plenty of misguided people in the world, and it's a bummer but it happens. It does bring up interesting questions about the value of his art, though, which was the point of the thread.
Despite Harold's personal beliefs, his art does not incite violence or anything violent. I personally enjoy much of his work, he's very talented. I wouldn't support someone financially whose views I disagree with, but that does not prevent me from enjoying their work. Woody Allen is not the kind of individual I'd prefer to support, but "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex" is a funny movie and I'll still watch it.
I suppose if an artist is convicted of a violent crime I'd probably cease to "enjoy" and consume their art for moral reasons. As to the value of the art, that depends on how much moral outrage you feel about the artist. I feel that Harold is within a kind of grey area, I own some flyers from an art show of his. I'd go see a show, but wouldn't purchase any. But if his actions crossed a line I'd boycott him. It's a very subject topic.
To me it doesn't really matter, but honestly its all about what wizards thinks will help them sell their set the best. Obviously I don't like the guy personally, but there are tons of artists I don't like personally, and yet I still enjoy their art.
Could someone elaborate the 1488 reference for those of us not as aware?
Reading the man's facebook page, he seems to be quite a tortured soul.
I don't see any reason to belittle or attack the man for having beliefs, he's free to hold beliefs as he chooses.
He seems quite intelligent, I feel almost too intimidated to send a friend request (I send a lot of artists friend requests on FB, so far, I've got a nice collection of approvals.)
A rather interesting fellow. I think. (I do not condone nor am I racist or bigot, I support a lot of equal rights causes, etc, I'm simply interested in who the man is.)
I am just horrified, not hateful... only increasing any wish to die to leave such a place, where any can be so soulless and heartless over a game... ashamed I ever did art for Magic the Gathering, given the creepy crack addict aspect of many... H.
I'm curious where you found this, I cannot find it
We don't have to tolerate intolerant people anymore.
I think it depends on what exactly you mean by "not tolerate".
(1)If by it you mean "we can present harsh criticism of them and make our objections public" then I fully agree. Even if you mean "we don't have to voluntarily provide them with a medium to present their bigoted views (if they want to present them, they can fund the medium themselves)", I still agree.
(2)However, if by it you mean "they should be silenced by legislation", then that's a whole different issue.
Option (1). Like I said, I'm a Libertarian. I do not believe in the repression of free speech. I also do not believe that just because you are free to express yourself, means that I must accept and support you.
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
I have noticed this for a little bit, and chose to respond for the sake of others... firstly, judging others based on superficial projections, was something Christ advised against with good reason... look into your heart, before any such presumption... you have no idea of my life, and how some of my art enabled me to later have dozens of skinheads say I saved lives, for I always rejected racial hate and from my art they could relate... does this make me evil? That I did a card with back hands called Invoke Prejudice, clearly would not be the act of a person who felt racism was justified... that I in the Tempest expansion, deliberately chose to portray blacks, worrying that African American children were not represented, is not the way of an insensitive human... the highest path for mankind, is Empathy... in this, I have always felt for all living things... It is very important that people stop judging each other, throwing labels like during the McCarthy era... the only valid religion and path, is Love with Humility... I shall not likely visit this site again, but had to convey what seemed to be missing... just think twice, about judging others... and do not assume you understand fully another's path... I have saved more lives, with my weird balancing act, than most of you... nor do I judge you... I just had to respond, for the sake of those soulful among you, without hate or blame to anyone... your heart, is the compass for your soul... H.
I know Harold personally and I can tell you he isn't racist. He is extremely intelligent and very intense. If you have questions about his art/process of creation I suggest e-mailing him directly. I do know that invoke prejudice was never intended to be a KKK reference. He has also done artwork for Vampire Jyhad and other games. Some of the artwork you mention from his website was done after his time with WOTC and has nothing to do with Magic or any other game. He's a very interesting person to converse with and will respond if you're respectful.
I know Harold personally and I can tell you he isn't racist. He is extremely intelligent and very intense. If you have questions about his art/process of creation I suggest e-mailing him directly. I do know that invoke prejudice was never intended to be a KKK reference. He has also done artwork for Vampire Jyhad and other games. Some of the artwork you mention from his website was done after his time with WOTC and has nothing to do with Magic or any other game. He's a very interesting person to converse with and will respond if you're respectful.
Ignoring Invoke Prejudice and some of the themes on his website, his artwork is extremely stylistic and iconic of the early era of Magic when the art was as much a collectible part of the card as the card itself was. There's a good reason why some of the earlier artists are known by name but not the more recent ones. Whether you like HMcN or dislike him, we should all be grateful for his contributions to the game which most likely helped the game become as big as it has.
I do have to wonder which of the Circles of Protection (the only cards illustrated by Harold in Tempest) "represent African-American children." From around that era, he had Dazzling Beauty portraying a black person, but it was in Mirage, so the subject's race wasn't a matter of artist choice (it was African fantasy themed, for those not familiar with it).
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Actually you do have to tolerate intolerant and unpleasant people, that's the entire point of free speech. The only thing Donald Sterling did wrong was share his private views in a private conversation which got leaked to the media by his attention seeking mistress because he offended her. Thus causing a knee jerk popular outcry which hurt the Clippers brand and the NBA which led to his recent mistreatment. God forbid an 80+ year old rich Jewish man is not going to be happy about his gold digging Latina girlfriend forcing him associate with young black people. Yeah its a stupid hang up, but things often are.
Well I think its important to note that he's an American, not a German so your country's inane censorship laws aren't really relevant. As far as I'm concerned Switzerland took a step in the right direction recently by legalizing the Hitler salute. I like my deluded hate groups to wear their affiliation on their sleeve if you pardon the pun. Makes it easier to tell when to cross the street and when to call the cops.
Ultimately he might be a moron but he's presumably a law abiding moron and if it stays that way there's no issue. Anyhow I don't think his style has any place in Magic: the Gathering and frankly that's probably more important to me than what his views are. I don't particularly like Invoke Prejudice as a magic card aesthetically and his other art is not fitting with the brand. If they ever reprint the card it should get new art.
I think you misunderstand "Free Speech" and my notion of tolerance. Without going into a deep philosophical debate, I'll just say that 'Free Speech' does not mean that you can just say what you want without fear of consequences. Sterling didn't break the law, but the social consequences for being a moronic bigot should be expected when you express views that are frowned upon by the majority of society.
The same is said for Harold Mcniel. He is 'free' to have his views, share them with us, and express them in his art. That doesn't mean we have to accept it or support it. I'm all for freedom, I'm a Libertarian, but I also know there is a difference between "Freedom of Speech" and understanding the consequences of having/sharing intolerant or hateful beliefs.
Pretty sure there was an xkcd expressing exactly that fact.
Yep, #1357.
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Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
If he was like the CEO of Chick-Fil-A and he made policies and remarks in the public forum that's a fair point. Although in that case the flack he drew probably helped his business because the consumers of Chick-Fil-A are social conservative leaning and they supported his views on homosexuality.
So yeah I'm not going to give my business to McNeil (its not something I'd hang on my wall) but I don't care what he paints or who buys his art. I don't ask the guy in the fast food window what religion he is or where he comes from or what party he belongs to and if he tells me I'll tell him to shut his mouth and give me my Quesadilla, not report him to the Inquisition.
This is getting off topic. Harold McNeil (you know, the guy this thread is about) has made his opinions easily accessible through his website and myspace. And while one might argue that putting anything on myspace is clearly an effort to hide it from public eyes, he's certainly not having his personal views secretly recorded or anything.
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Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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I don't disagree that his art is pretty cool. I think there's a good chance that his racism is part of why he's not been asked to do a magic card since 1997, though. Which is too bad for him, at least.
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PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I think it was obvious I was talking about Donald Sterling. Which Georg brought up, not me.
The guy has very clearly made his pro-Nazi and pro-Hitler beliefs clear in a number of mediums, not just through his art. While his art by itself could arguably be a poor attempt at satire, the guy makes no attempt to hide his beliefs elsewhere.
I get that. I was trying to keep the conversation on track and vaguely magic-related. I don't care who brought it up.
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PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Trust me, there are so many despicable people that have existed that have made interesting pieces of art (paintings, music, tv shows, comic books, etc) that if one were to feel offended by the creator, you wouldn't be able to enjoy as many things that have been made that many people enjoy. like Micheal Jackson's music for instance, people do enjoy his songs despite the "scandals" that went on. Songs like Thriller, Just Beat It, Smooth Criminal, etc. So just relax, enjoy the creations even if you don't enjoy the creator. Am I defending the creator? Not really, I am defending his creations so people can understand the point I am trying to get across.
Understand what I am saying?
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HORRIFIED AND OUTRAGED!
Jesus H Christ OP, you and every hand-wringing WASP-y mother should hang out and write morally indignant letters to the editor together. The irony here is that your reaction is partially the point of such art. Stick to Bob Ross and Thomas Kinkade, definitely would be more your style.
To be fair, I haven't done more than flip through the gallery. Nothing especially amazing or horrifying there, though I actually liked the Jesus/Hitler faux woodblock thing. The play on the christian concept of the redemptive blood of Christ and the Nazi trope of "blood and honor" is pretty apt, even funny.
Flame warning -Cythare
By not being tolerant of intolerant people doesn't that make you intolerant?
Definitely charging in and showing everyone how edgy you are without reading any of the other posts was definitely the smart way to go. We're all very impressed.
The man is absolutely a racist, while his art for the most part isn't proof positive, there's loads of stuff on his myspace and personal anecdotes that confirm his strong segregational beliefs. antisemitism, and Nazi sympathy.
I mean, that's not necessarily cause to freak out or anything, there are plenty of misguided people in the world, and it's a bummer but it happens. It does bring up interesting questions about the value of his art, though, which was the point of the thread.
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Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I suppose if an artist is convicted of a violent crime I'd probably cease to "enjoy" and consume their art for moral reasons. As to the value of the art, that depends on how much moral outrage you feel about the artist. I feel that Harold is within a kind of grey area, I own some flyers from an art show of his. I'd go see a show, but wouldn't purchase any. But if his actions crossed a line I'd boycott him. It's a very subject topic.
Reading the man's facebook page, he seems to be quite a tortured soul.
I don't see any reason to belittle or attack the man for having beliefs, he's free to hold beliefs as he chooses.
He seems quite intelligent, I feel almost too intimidated to send a friend request (I send a lot of artists friend requests on FB, so far, I've got a nice collection of approvals.)
A rather interesting fellow. I think. (I do not condone nor am I racist or bigot, I support a lot of equal rights causes, etc, I'm simply interested in who the man is.)
I'm curious where you found this, I cannot find it
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Its a common number cipher used by neo-nazi groups.
14 is a reference to a particular 14 word phrase, and 88 is a reference to the 8th letter of the alphabet.
I'll just let urban dictionary fill you in on the details:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=1488
Ah, now I understand, thank you for the information!
I'm still trying to locate his quote about MTG in particular.
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Ignoring Invoke Prejudice and some of the themes on his website, his artwork is extremely stylistic and iconic of the early era of Magic when the art was as much a collectible part of the card as the card itself was. There's a good reason why some of the earlier artists are known by name but not the more recent ones. Whether you like HMcN or dislike him, we should all be grateful for his contributions to the game which most likely helped the game become as big as it has.
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