Well, I've always been bothered by the fact that the power 9 is only blue cards and artifacts. So, I would add all cards that aren't blue or artifacts.
Gaea's Cradle
Necropotence
Balance
Fastbond
Yawgmoth's Will
Moat
Time Vault
Sol Ring
Library of Alexandria
Bazaar of Baghdad
Mishra's Workshop
Necropotence
I tended to focus more on "iconic" or "a significant part of the game's history" rather than raw power level, so your mileage may vary. I also tried to restrict the list to iconic cards from the game's early years, hence the exclusion of iconic game-breakers like Tinker and Yawgmoth's Will.
I tried to get as many pillars of Vintage tier 1 decks included as well as Sol Ring, which is very much both Vintage and Commander power. Mana Crypt was the first card that got the axe, as free mana is very powerful. Sol Ring edged it out, because control decks cannot really use the Crypt. Brainstorm was also considered, but Mana Drain edged it out.
Dark Ritual should be pretty easy include. It has been the key for many decks from early suicide black decks to todays Storm decks. It's common, but having a few beta copies in ones binder, when there are younger eternal format players around starts a feeding frenzy. It's both an iconic card and deceptively powerful.
Mishra's Workshop has a whole archetype named after it and for the deck it's a Black Lotus every turn. Having usually 4 mana on turn 1 is heady stuff. Getting to 7+ mana on turn two can really break games wide open fast. The card is pretty much insane.
Mana Drain is the best Counterspell ever. The card helps control fight Workshops and spits out 3-7 mana to add insult to injury. Getting a big spell get countered by Mana Drain is often a knockout punch in Vintage. In the bygone days the caster at least had to spend all the mana or suffer mana burn. I did see some games end because the control player got hit in the face for 3 because extra mana. Now the whole spell is free of drawbacks. It's also a marquee Commander-card.
Yawgmoths Win ends many Vintage games on spot. This is a weapon for several archetypes, altough it's at it's best in storm based decks, but Gush, some creature strategies and even control can use this as the final nail in the coffin. Just getting to reuse other power 15 cards is great.
Time Vault is the last pilar. With a few two card combos that just win the game, it's a card to fear. With just 4 mana and empty board opponent with just two cards in hand can win out of the blue. It really changed the landscape of vintage after the errata was changed. Before the change Vintage had a different Time Vault combo, which could deal infinite damage by resolving a Flame Fusilade.
Sol Ring I mentioned already, but there are also some other cards that could be considered. Bazaar of Baghdad has seen play in both Workshop decks, Dragon and other reanimator strategies and iconically in Dredge. The card can really break open any game, where the graveyard is a resource. Tinker is another enabler. But I felt that Time Vault was a better card for listing, as many decks opt not to have a [ccard]Blightsteel Colossus[/card] or another hard to deal threat in the main deck, but just Tinker for the missing half of Vault-Key. Gush is yet another power-common that deserves a mention. With several different possible builds Gush gives the caster both more resources and more mana, often finding another Gush to really overwhelm the opponent under a snowball of card draw and mana.
Before Zendikar brought us Celestial Colonade as another option, I would have listed Mishra's Factory also somewhere in the six. There's a reason why thew Winter Mishra fetches a very nice amount of money and it's still the cheapest to activate uncounterable threat control decks can play. I also agree that Strip Mine is pretty high on the power scale. Just imagine what any format where all four would be legal would look like.
I tried to stick with cards that are independently powerful. Time Vault, for example, didn't make my list because you also need a way to untap it or it's actively bad.
Any card that's legal to play in Legacy can't be P9-worthy.
If we're talking about raw power, Contract from Below has to be included. Blacker Lotus is a similar case. However, there's an implicit assumption in the TC's post that the card should be legal in Vintage, much as the P9 are. With this in mind, I'd give the following list:
1)Yawgmoth's Will: Yawgmoth's Will is arguably the best card in Magic: the Gathering. Anyone who has ever cast it knows why. The "fixed" version of it, Past in Flames, is still good enough to play in Legacy despite a severe reduction in power level.
2) Mana Crypt: Think Sol Ring is good for giving you two colorless for one? How about two colorless for zero? This card is better than a Mox in the right deck. The fact that this card is legal in Commander heavily implies that the rules committee spends their day huffing paint thinner.
3) Sol Ring: Not quite as broken as Mana Crypt, but almost a Mox nonetheless. This card fuels all kinds of degenerate shenanigans and any format where it is legal in is worse off as a result.
4) Tolarian Academy: If this card was banned from Vintage, a bunch of other cards could come off the restricted list. That would defeat the entire point of Vintage, but this land is like a reusable blue-producing Black Lotus, often being reusable within the span of a single turn thanks to effects like Time Spiral. This card was way too good the day it was released and it's only gotten better.
5) Balance: Irony at its finest. When played in tandem with 0-casting cost artifacts or Simian Spirit Guide Balance allows you to generate absurd card advantage that makes Ancestral Recall look like a warm puddle of puke in comparison.
6)Necropotence: Any card that allows you to repeatedly draw one card for one life will eventually be banned. That giant demon currently tearing up Legacy and Modern is not long for this world, even with his drawback of making you spend seven at once and his massive casting cost.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Cut Timetwister, since it's so sorely outclassed in modern times, add Sol Ring, Demonic Tutor, Yawgmoth's Will, Tinker, Library of Alexandria, Mishra's Workshop, and Tolarian Academy.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
shocked I didn't see anyone else mention Force of Will. In the formats it's legal in, it heavily warps deck construction just because it exists. All in turn 1 combos, and every other power 9 card, is kept in balance by Force keeping them in check.
I also would like to give an honorable mention to Necropotence, which got barely beat out by Academy. Basically the main thing academy had on it was the fact that it creates blue mana, and is therefore compatible with every other P9. Balance was also considered.
I'm going to assume the new cards have to be comparable to the original Power 9 not only in power level, but also in price and age. Here are the obvious inclusions:
- Time Vault
- Mana Crypt
- Mishra's Workshop
- Bazaar of Baghdad
- Library of Alexandria
The last slot gets taken up by either Sol Ring or Yawgmoth's Will, which only satisfy some of the three criteria, despite being arguably more broken than some of the Power 9.
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
Time Vault
Sol Ring/Mana Crypt
Mishra's Workshop
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
Yawgmoth's Will
Honorable mentions go to Library of Alexandria, Necropotence, Balance, Force of Will, Fastbond, Brainstorm, Demonic Tutor, Oath of Druids, Flash, and Wheel of Fortune.
If we are expanding the list can we remove cards too? Because timetwister just does not deserve to be in the power 9 any more. So many more powerful cards.
The power nine aren't what they are simply for being powerful (that is certainly a big part of it). It's mainly because they are iconic rare cards that never got reprinted past ABU. When they didn't get reprinted in Revised like a lot of other cards they gained the mythic status and title of "power nine" because they suddenly became so much harder to get than other cards. Balance is arguably more powerful than Timetwister but it got reprinted in later sets so it doesn't get to be power. Similar arguments could also be made for other early cards such as Wheel of Fortune, Demonic Tutor, dual lands, and Sol Ring, just to name a few. But those cards got reprinted and thus cannot be considered in part of the elite and coveted "power" category. Given this fact, I personally don't feel that things like Sol Ring and Tinker deserve to be considered "power", despite their impact on game play. Keep in mind, in a good game, top decking a mox or a lotus mid game isn't going to do much for you or have anywhere near the impact a tinker could have, but that doesn't mean we don't consider the moxen power.
TL;DR: being considered "power" isn't all about the card's impact on game play, it's more about rarity and price tag.
Time Vault
Sol Ring
Library of Alexandria
Bazaar of Baghdad
Mishra's Workshop
Necropotence
I tended to focus more on "iconic" or "a significant part of the game's history" rather than raw power level, so your mileage may vary. I also tried to restrict the list to iconic cards from the game's early years, hence the exclusion of iconic game-breakers like Tinker and Yawgmoth's Will.
Agreed on all above cards. I'm surprised more people aren't listed Bazaar of Baghdad more
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
For me:
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Yawgmoth's Will
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Channel
Demonic Tutor
Tinker
Balance
Gush
Necropotence
Tolarian Academy
Time Vault
Sol Ring
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Tinker
Currently Playing:
Retired
Demonic Tutor
Sol Ring
Balance
Time Vault
Tinker
Time Vault
Mana Crypt
Tolarian Academy
Library of Alexandria
Mishra's Workshop.
Ashnod's Coupon
Gaea's Cradle
Necropotence
Balance
Fastbond
Yawgmoth's Will
Moat
Mana Crypt
Library of Alexandria
Bazaar of Baghdad
Mishra's Workshop
Sol Ring
Sol Ring
Library of Alexandria
Bazaar of Baghdad
Mishra's Workshop
Necropotence
I tended to focus more on "iconic" or "a significant part of the game's history" rather than raw power level, so your mileage may vary. I also tried to restrict the list to iconic cards from the game's early years, hence the exclusion of iconic game-breakers like Tinker and Yawgmoth's Will.
Mishra's Workshop
Sol Ring
Mana Drain
Yawgmoth's Will
Time Vault
I tried to get as many pillars of Vintage tier 1 decks included as well as Sol Ring, which is very much both Vintage and Commander power. Mana Crypt was the first card that got the axe, as free mana is very powerful. Sol Ring edged it out, because control decks cannot really use the Crypt. Brainstorm was also considered, but Mana Drain edged it out.
Dark Ritual should be pretty easy include. It has been the key for many decks from early suicide black decks to todays Storm decks. It's common, but having a few beta copies in ones binder, when there are younger eternal format players around starts a feeding frenzy. It's both an iconic card and deceptively powerful.
Mishra's Workshop has a whole archetype named after it and for the deck it's a Black Lotus every turn. Having usually 4 mana on turn 1 is heady stuff. Getting to 7+ mana on turn two can really break games wide open fast. The card is pretty much insane.
Mana Drain is the best Counterspell ever. The card helps control fight Workshops and spits out 3-7 mana to add insult to injury. Getting a big spell get countered by Mana Drain is often a knockout punch in Vintage. In the bygone days the caster at least had to spend all the mana or suffer mana burn. I did see some games end because the control player got hit in the face for 3 because extra mana. Now the whole spell is free of drawbacks. It's also a marquee Commander-card.
Yawgmoths Win ends many Vintage games on spot. This is a weapon for several archetypes, altough it's at it's best in storm based decks, but Gush, some creature strategies and even control can use this as the final nail in the coffin. Just getting to reuse other power 15 cards is great.
Time Vault is the last pilar. With a few two card combos that just win the game, it's a card to fear. With just 4 mana and empty board opponent with just two cards in hand can win out of the blue. It really changed the landscape of vintage after the errata was changed. Before the change Vintage had a different Time Vault combo, which could deal infinite damage by resolving a Flame Fusilade.
Sol Ring I mentioned already, but there are also some other cards that could be considered. Bazaar of Baghdad has seen play in both Workshop decks, Dragon and other reanimator strategies and iconically in Dredge. The card can really break open any game, where the graveyard is a resource. Tinker is another enabler. But I felt that Time Vault was a better card for listing, as many decks opt not to have a [ccard]Blightsteel Colossus[/card] or another hard to deal threat in the main deck, but just Tinker for the missing half of Vault-Key. Gush is yet another power-common that deserves a mention. With several different possible builds Gush gives the caster both more resources and more mana, often finding another Gush to really overwhelm the opponent under a snowball of card draw and mana.
Before Zendikar brought us Celestial Colonade as another option, I would have listed Mishra's Factory also somewhere in the six. There's a reason why thew Winter Mishra fetches a very nice amount of money and it's still the cheapest to activate uncounterable threat control decks can play. I also agree that Strip Mine is pretty high on the power scale. Just imagine what any format where all four would be legal would look like.
Set to default
Library of Alexandria
Mana Crypt
Necropotence
Balance
Fastbond
I tried to stick with cards that are independently powerful. Time Vault, for example, didn't make my list because you also need a way to untap it or it's actively bad.
If we're talking about raw power, Contract from Below has to be included. Blacker Lotus is a similar case. However, there's an implicit assumption in the TC's post that the card should be legal in Vintage, much as the P9 are. With this in mind, I'd give the following list:
1)Yawgmoth's Will: Yawgmoth's Will is arguably the best card in Magic: the Gathering. Anyone who has ever cast it knows why. The "fixed" version of it, Past in Flames, is still good enough to play in Legacy despite a severe reduction in power level.
2) Mana Crypt: Think Sol Ring is good for giving you two colorless for one? How about two colorless for zero? This card is better than a Mox in the right deck. The fact that this card is legal in Commander heavily implies that the rules committee spends their day huffing paint thinner.
3) Sol Ring: Not quite as broken as Mana Crypt, but almost a Mox nonetheless. This card fuels all kinds of degenerate shenanigans and any format where it is legal in is worse off as a result.
4) Tolarian Academy: If this card was banned from Vintage, a bunch of other cards could come off the restricted list. That would defeat the entire point of Vintage, but this land is like a reusable blue-producing Black Lotus, often being reusable within the span of a single turn thanks to effects like Time Spiral. This card was way too good the day it was released and it's only gotten better.
5) Balance: Irony at its finest. When played in tandem with 0-casting cost artifacts or Simian Spirit Guide Balance allows you to generate absurd card advantage that makes Ancestral Recall look like a warm puddle of puke in comparison.
6)Necropotence: Any card that allows you to repeatedly draw one card for one life will eventually be banned. That giant demon currently tearing up Legacy and Modern is not long for this world, even with his drawback of making you spend seven at once and his massive casting cost.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Library of Alexandria (always the stepchild... of Power 10)
Sol Ring/Mana Crypt - Would be higher than a mox (IMO) if it wasn't for Revised/Reprints
Demonic tutor - Best tutor of all time tho Vampiric is better with Miracles.. go figure?
Tinker - should replace Timetwister as the 2U
Strip Mine - Best Non-basic land next to Tolarian that was already mentioned.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
Force of Will
Sol Ring
Yawgmoth's Will
Mana Crypt
Tolarian Academy
Tinker
shocked I didn't see anyone else mention Force of Will. In the formats it's legal in, it heavily warps deck construction just because it exists. All in turn 1 combos, and every other power 9 card, is kept in balance by Force keeping them in check.
I also would like to give an honorable mention to Necropotence, which got barely beat out by Academy. Basically the main thing academy had on it was the fact that it creates blue mana, and is therefore compatible with every other P9. Balance was also considered.
- Time Vault
- Mana Crypt
- Mishra's Workshop
- Bazaar of Baghdad
- Library of Alexandria
The last slot gets taken up by either Sol Ring or Yawgmoth's Will, which only satisfy some of the three criteria, despite being arguably more broken than some of the Power 9.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingReplace demonic tutor with balance and I agree 100% with this list. Honarable mention to necro
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
Sol Ring/Mana Crypt
Mishra's Workshop
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
Yawgmoth's Will
Honorable mentions go to Library of Alexandria, Necropotence, Balance, Force of Will, Fastbond, Brainstorm, Demonic Tutor, Oath of Druids, Flash, and Wheel of Fortune.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
TL;DR: being considered "power" isn't all about the card's impact on game play, it's more about rarity and price tag.
With that said, here is my list of six:
Time Vault (probably didn't make the original power list because of the lack of things like Voltaic Key that are abundant now)
Library of Alexandria
Bazaar of Baghdad
Mishra's Workshop
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Moat
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
Fleshmad Steed
Scornful Egotist
One with Nothing
Mudhole
Best cards ever printed
Agreed on all above cards. I'm surprised more people aren't listed Bazaar of Baghdad more
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Storm Crow is better than Sea Eagle?! Surely ye jest...