Just thought I'd let you guys know that some very high quality counterfeits of expensive cards such as Tarmogoyf have surfaced in North Carolina. I would be very wary of trades going forward, and would refrain from buying online unless this is addressed. Here's a link to the article: http://imgur.com/a/hLuw2
If the fakes become rampant, I would be a lot more confident of the cards with holostamp than the ones without. I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment, especially if it's a $100+ card like Tarmogoyf.
Just as a note: these are fake cards made by people who are stealing wizards' intellectual property for their own personal gain; it destroys any sense of confidence when trading or buying online; it hurts your LGS, whose bread and butter might be selling singles. By buying from these people, you're supporting a criminal enterprise while hurting the very community you're actively engaged in. Please, don't buy from these people all for the sake of a few cards for your deck.
Just as a note: these are fake cards made by people who are stealing wizards' intellectual property for their own personal gain; it destroys any sense of confidence when trading or buying online; it hurts your LGS, whose bread and butter might be selling singles. By buying from these people, you're supporting a criminal enterprise while hurting the very community you're actively engaged in. Please, don't buy from these people all for the sake of a few cards for your deck.
Presumably they don't advertise...
So how exactly does one avoid buying from them? Personally, if I have some reason to believe a card is fake that I bought, then sure, I would go look up where I got it from and not buy from them / maybe let people know.
But I'm certainly not going to flip out and never buy anything online again or let my confidence in online buying be "destroyed," just because now I'm only 97% sure I'm not buying any fakes instead of 99%. As long as I'm buying from established places and not TRYING to get proxies, then my conscience is clear. Not my job to bend over backward to snuff out shenanigans, that's WOTC's and the police's job.
I could understand faking expensive cards, but cheap cards like some in the pictures isnt worth it. So it could be a scam site, especially since the name is so wonky. as for the domri, minor dependencies can be noticed on cards between printings like changing the ink or temperature and such.
If they were looking to make money they would print really rare expensive cards and seed them into ebay over time. but the fact that you have to buy 500 lots is odd.
Also, the site isnt a real site, its like a chinese godaddy, so its probably a scam site.
Personally, if I have some reason to believe a card is fake that I bought, then sure, I would go look up where I got it from and not buy from them / maybe let people know.
Some people will knowingly buy fakes. It isn't a simple matter of "I was fooled!"
I mean, if you see a dual being sold for $5, that should send all sorts of red flags up. It is either fake, or stolen and has to be disposed of quick. Some people will buy that, regardless. Chained is talking about those kind of people.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I could understand faking expensive cards, but cheap cards like some in the pictures isnt worth it. So it could be a scam site, especially since the name is so wonky. as for the domri, minor dependencies can be noticed on cards between printings like changing the ink or temperature and such.
If they were looking to make money they would print really rare expensive cards and seed them into ebay over time. but the fact that you have to buy 500 lots is odd.
Also, the site isnt a real site, its like a chinese godaddy, so its probably a scam site.
It's not a scam site; it's the Chinese equivalent of eBay for businesses. That company considers itself a legitimate business & probably doesn't care about violating US or international law because China tends to not prosecute or extradite on that kind of charge.
I wouldn't suggesting ordering any of these; the size of a minimum order on their website is well more than large enough to trigger counterfeiting & conspiracy charges as well as the kind of lawsuit that hasn't been seen since WotC went after rancoredelf. There are high enough quality images on their site & in the forums & Facebook groups that've detected these fakes in circulation to document & educate the community on the telltale flaws in these fakes.
There will be no further talk of actually ordering these or requesting samples; such talk is tantamount to proxy creation/printing discussion & will result in suspensions.
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This is probably why M15 is going to have the Yugiohish foil stickers... but that's just a stopgap measure, because Chinese printers like that one have duplicated all of those stickers. I'm thinking this is probably going to take WotC making some kind of deal with the Chinese government to put these people out of business.
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Holofoil and other anti-counterfeiting also won't solve faking of older, more valuable card.
A couple of posts back, someone mentioned WotC dumping the reserve list. Likely, they won't. Instead, they'll double down on it, cut off all support to the older formats. ie. Officially, no more legacy or vintage, under the guise of "welp, no one is playing those formats anyway" or "we're focusing on the formats that players really want." Modern will be bumped up to include only sets with holofoil/anti-counterfeit measures.
I'm thinking this is probably going to take WotC making some kind of deal with the Chinese government to put these people out of business.
The RIAA isn't making much headway against chinese counterfeits.
WotC, even backed by Hasbro, is much smaller and has less clout. I doubt anything will be done by either governments, and I have a feeling this is something that WotC will have to live with.
I imagine that this is going to be a very hot topic tomorrow as the implications are very real. As someone who doesn't own a single paper card (MODO) I'm even worried about a trickle down effect.
I imagine that this is going to be a very hot topic tomorrow as the implications are very real. As someone who doesn't own a single paper card (MODO) I'm even worried about a trickle down effect.
I hope and believe that this is strictly a paper-world problem, and should not impact MODO in any way, shape or form; the only way it is possible is if the counterfeits becomes so rampant that it kills the game.
The typesetting and font issues might be made impossible to detect if they simply change to unfamiliar languages like Korean/Japanese/German/etc. I certainly have no korean cards with me to compare.
Do you really think spot counterfeiting could ruin the game? Sure it may ruin Starcity's game having to lower their ridiculous prices, (when people are more willing to risk charges for forgery than pay your prices you should re-evaluate your rampanth greed) but I'm willing to bet WotC makes most of it's money from sealed product bought at big stores and LSG's, not the secondary market. And while some people may feel like quitting because their "investment" turned out to be unsafe, most people will not care about the existance of counterfeits one way or the other. The average FNM player won't deal with translating shady chinese ebay, plus international shipping, plus avoiding beng tagged for counterfeiting & conspiracy, all to save a couple bucks on standard cards.
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Guess I should sell off my expensive older cards sooner than I had planned. Honestly I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner, afterall these are just cardboard, not high tech stuff.
apologies for sounding stupid, but can someone please explain to me what "kearning" is and how to spot these cards? i cant really see any difference in the cards them selves apart from the domri rade Tm & C in the first picture on that link - thanks
Basically, the spacing between letters of counterfeits is very slightly off.
In the link provided, the name "Tyler Jacobson" on the fake has wider kerning that that of the original one. It's most seen on the J a c o b part of the name.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Check out the Cube Discord channel here
Check out the Cube Discord channel here
Check out the Cube Discord channel here
Check out the Cube Discord channel here
Presumably they don't advertise...
So how exactly does one avoid buying from them? Personally, if I have some reason to believe a card is fake that I bought, then sure, I would go look up where I got it from and not buy from them / maybe let people know.
But I'm certainly not going to flip out and never buy anything online again or let my confidence in online buying be "destroyed," just because now I'm only 97% sure I'm not buying any fakes instead of 99%. As long as I'm buying from established places and not TRYING to get proxies, then my conscience is clear. Not my job to bend over backward to snuff out shenanigans, that's WOTC's and the police's job.
Knowing is half the battle.
*I am not advocating selling them as the cards printed on them, I am willing to shell out my money to prevent that from happening to my LGS'.
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Ditto. I frequent a few shops and would bring them with me and educate the owners/employees on how to spot the fakes.
If they were looking to make money they would print really rare expensive cards and seed them into ebay over time. but the fact that you have to buy 500 lots is odd.
Also, the site isnt a real site, its like a chinese godaddy, so its probably a scam site.
Some people will knowingly buy fakes. It isn't a simple matter of "I was fooled!"
I mean, if you see a dual being sold for $5, that should send all sorts of red flags up. It is either fake, or stolen and has to be disposed of quick. Some people will buy that, regardless. Chained is talking about those kind of people.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
It's not a scam site; it's the Chinese equivalent of eBay for businesses. That company considers itself a legitimate business & probably doesn't care about violating US or international law because China tends to not prosecute or extradite on that kind of charge.
I wouldn't suggesting ordering any of these; the size of a minimum order on their website is well more than large enough to trigger counterfeiting & conspiracy charges as well as the kind of lawsuit that hasn't been seen since WotC went after rancoredelf. There are high enough quality images on their site & in the forums & Facebook groups that've detected these fakes in circulation to document & educate the community on the telltale flaws in these fakes.
There will be no further talk of actually ordering these or requesting samples; such talk is tantamount to proxy creation/printing discussion & will result in suspensions.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
This is probably why M15 is going to have the Yugiohish foil stickers... but that's just a stopgap measure, because Chinese printers like that one have duplicated all of those stickers. I'm thinking this is probably going to take WotC making some kind of deal with the Chinese government to put these people out of business.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
A couple of posts back, someone mentioned WotC dumping the reserve list. Likely, they won't. Instead, they'll double down on it, cut off all support to the older formats. ie. Officially, no more legacy or vintage, under the guise of "welp, no one is playing those formats anyway" or "we're focusing on the formats that players really want." Modern will be bumped up to include only sets with holofoil/anti-counterfeit measures.
The RIAA isn't making much headway against chinese counterfeits.
WotC, even backed by Hasbro, is much smaller and has less clout. I doubt anything will be done by either governments, and I have a feeling this is something that WotC will have to live with.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I hope and believe that this is strictly a paper-world problem, and should not impact MODO in any way, shape or form; the only way it is possible is if the counterfeits becomes so rampant that it kills the game.
Check out the Cube Discord channel here
It's "Kerning"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerning
Basically, the spacing between letters of counterfeits is very slightly off.
In the link provided, the name "Tyler Jacobson" on the fake has wider kerning that that of the original one. It's most seen on the J a c o b part of the name.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
When will the counterfeits reach "Duals"? How much will it affect your collection? What will hoarders do? How will Starcitygames react?
I will be watching by the side.