Ladies and Gentlemen, I have a problem and hope that you can assist. Last Saturday at a Card Game Store, evening hours, during a Typical Game, two unknown players came to visit the store to play and also trade. As we played and traded, they mostly hovered around a young player who just got into the game and wanted badly to trade with him. Here at the store, we help - even train other younger players and newer player how to handle those who want to see your treasures you have earned and tried to obtain. We enocurage those to continue the game and not lose faith. These unknown would ask to see his binder and we all kept watch to see what was it that they needed so badly to see. That younger player had a playset of Force of Wills and other older cards from his bigger brother and his brother passed his collection to him to carry on the faith of Magic. Well it happened in a blur, the exit to the store is almost 2 feet from where he and the unknown were. They took off with his binder. We ran after but it was like a scene from a movie. They had a get-away car ready and jumped in and took off. However, without thinking, the unknowns left their binder and bags with them. Mostly Standard stuff, many were rares and sleeves. The owner took it upon himself to give everything in the bag to the guy whose binder was stolen. About 23 people were there. We didn’t recognize those unknown but ½ stated not to allow him to take all of the items, others were YES GIVE IT ALL.
The reason most were angry is of course they also wanted what was in the bag, other really didn't care. Was the owner wrong?
Should he had the right to give it all to him or share with everyone in the store or the owner hold on to it?
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Our hearts still ache in sadness
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I guess you could say that the unknowns decided to "trade" their binders and bags for that young player's binder. Seems like the only "good" outcome to me, other than having the situation never happen in the first place. What are the alternatives here? Distribute the items evenly to everyone who was there? They didn't lose anything.
I suppose the "correct" thing to do would be for the store owner to hold on to the stuff and return it when possible, but I doubt those unknowns would ever show up again anyways.
They stole some poor kids binder, were their collections even worth what his was?
The little kid probably had no idea what he had. He could have had moxen, etc.
The right thing to do would be to file a police report, and hope that camera's got their license plate numbers and prosecute them to the full extend of the law, which unless he had $1,000+ worth of cards, would be like 100 hours of community service, a small fine, and reparations to the victim.
Honestly though, just because he's little doesn't mean he's not the biggest shark in the store.
You're telling me they left all that stuff there without identifying information that could be used to track them down? No way.
Thieves who leave property not used as part of a crime do not waive their rights to the property. Although finding anybody who's going to argue with the store owner or the kid might be tough, technically the thieves would be in the right legally speaking to get their property back. However, if they don't ask for the property back in a reasonable amount of time—for example, because it would risk identifying themselves—the property may be considered abandoned. At that point the store owner can safely give it to the victim.
So the better way would be for the store owner to hold the cards as "possibly abandoned" and cooperate with the kid and the police to try to identify the thieves as Tybalt suggested. If the police don't need the cards as evidence and time passes (a month or two) without the thieves claiming it, the store owner can give them to the victim.
It sucks, but that's probably the right way to do it.
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If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
Most of the sharks in my store, myself included, are in the 12-14 age range.
In any case, just because someone is a shark doesn't mean it's okay to steal from them.
Heh, if a 12 year old kid even tried to get a look at my binder, I'd tell him to sod off. But then, I play at a shop where the average age seems to be around 24, and we like it that way.
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EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
I'm in full support of giving the cards to the kid who had his stuff stolen.
If you don't like just 'handing it over,' I'm sure you can arrange for everyone to agree that the kid found all that standard stuff and handed it over to the owner. Owner will hold it for a week as 'lost property.' If people come to collect it, spring them. If it isn't, give it to the 'finder.' That seems fair to me
Unfortunately I know who stole the binder. I know who it was because it was I. Yes. I stole the binder filled with cards, but that's because the kid was not who you thought he was. I've been watching him for weeks, months even, and it took careful and meticulous planning.
You see that kid is part of an undercover group of Terrorists, you may know them as Al-Qeda but they are actually much more diabolical. They know the truth behind the game you guys consider to be.. just a 'game.' It is actually so much more. The legendary Power Nine as you call them, are actually powerful beyond your wildest dreams. That kid had them. The Power Nine, with him, in his possession hidden behind his Force of Wills. That kid was a carrier, a Transporter if you will, and he was willing to Tinker his Mox sapphire for a Blightsteel Colossus on Turn 1. Sounds amazing right? Too good to be true? Think again.
I have now in my collection the Power Nine, and I am the only thing separating the world from that kid trying to leverage his Blightsteel Colossus on the world. He wants nothing more than to destroy the Great Wall of China to become more powerful, for you see. He is a fan of Land Destruction in addition to Tinker.
You may think of me as an enemy, but I along with my elite group of Spies and Assassins, we call ourselves 'The Sharks.'
You may not like us, you may hate us, you may think Sharks are lame because Great Whites aren't 'really endangered' but we are! We are so endangered. Because of kids like him, and their merger with Al-Qeda and the desire to get their hands on the Weapons of Mass Mana Acceleration, they need to be stopped.
I would be worried that the stuff they left behind was stolen from someone else in the first place.
~ Tim
This. Normally I would support giving the victim the cards that the theives left behind, until I realize that those cards might not actually be theirs. For that reason, it would be better to hold onto the whole collection and wait until it can be discerned whether those cards belong to another person or not. If the cards the theives left behind are definitely their property, well then tough **** for them, that's what they get for preying on a god-damn child.
Also, OP, this really should be reported to the authorities.
As the OP, Some of you may not believe it could have happened. However, in actuality it did. As you read in the beginning this Young Man's Brother is known around the store. He also helped us all to get cards that were unable to before. He no longer wanted to play but his brother did. We looked after him but unfortunately things like this do happen. I was also there when in Chicago Tournaments and Pre-Releases, many bandits were trying to steal bags from other when not looking. This was just unfortunate. The owner tried to see if there was any identification in the bag but nothing but as I stated, four fat pack boxes and three packages of sleeves. The owner has moved the tables in the far back and any trades are done in the corner where all can see and still able to catch anyone doing things dishonest.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I miss you mom!
Our hearts still ache in sadness
And secret tears still flow
What it meant to lose you
No on will ever know
But we know you want us
To mourn for you no more
To remember all the happy times
Life still has much in store
Since you’ll never be forgotten
We pledge to you today
A hallowed place within our hearts
Is where you’ll always stay
Well it happened in a blur, the exit to the store is almost 2 feet from where he and the unknown were. They took off with his binder. We ran after but it was like a scene from a movie. They had a get-away car ready and jumped in and took off.
Thanks for sharing this story. I now recall reading a similar MO in another theft report a while back, though it was at a large event of some kind instead of a store. Still, both incidents involved a grab and run near the entrance of the venue, along with a getaway car. That is apparently an opportunity thieves are on the look out for and something I'll have to keep in mind.
"A rich man thinks all other people are rich, and an intelligent man thinks all other people are similarly gifted. Both are always terribly shocked when they discover the truth of the world. You, my dear brother, are a pious man." - Strahd von Zarovich
These threads are all sad to read. The problem with Magic is that the game itself has become less important than the pieces of the game and the possession of those pieces.
People talk about how much their cards are worth all the time. It becomes of paramount importance to actually playing the game or caring about the health of the game itself.
Modern Masters is a good example. We want to support Modern says WotC. In order to give everybody who might have not gotten into the game until just recently we're going to reprint a bunch of old cards from the last seven or eight years. This will give people (especially the newer and younger ones) a good opportunity to catch up on necessary pieces for the game. Great! That's a wonderful idea.
Until you get to that part where they say - we're going to sell it in smaller boxes, charge more for it, and short-print it intentionally by running a limited supply. Even their "solutions" to try and fix problems with game piece availability is a shameless marketing scheme.
When you have cards and pieces that are worth so much that you can't comfortably play with them or bring them out in public you have an issue that needs addressing.
Just ask the recent smattering of people that have: had their car broken into and $75,000 worth of cards stolen, David Williams who had his Vintage deck stolen at Gen Con last year, or the poor kid at the Chicago store who had something of inherent and personal value that he and his brother shared stolen.
You can have the stupidest games worth the most money though. Go check out Yu-Gi-Oh! Some people have the super-deluxe, ultra-rare, holo-gold, ghost-foil card. That comes in one pack out of every 20,000 and sells for five grand or so.
And you wonder why Magic and games that intentionally short-print product have problems with theft?
I think I am sadly opposed to this redistribution of wealth. I just don't think it is worth the risk, and frankly I would be going to the law with this. There is a part of me that wants the kid to have to the stuff because there is a moral justice issue, but I just can't get behind it, at least not right away. Besides, there could be fingerprints all over the sleeves, and one of these monsters could very well have a record. It is a moot point now, but I think it was the wrong call.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I have a problem and hope that you can assist.
Last Saturday at a Card Game Store, evening hours, during a Typical Game, two unknown players came to visit the store to play and also trade.
As we played and traded, they mostly hovered around a young player who just got into the game and wanted badly to trade with him.
Here at the store, we help - even train other younger players and newer player how to handle those who want to see your treasures you have earned and tried to obtain. We enocurage those to continue the game and not lose faith.
These unknown would ask to see his binder and we all kept watch to see what was it that they needed so badly to see. That younger player had a playset of Force of Wills and other older cards from his bigger brother and his brother passed his collection to him to carry on the faith of Magic.
Well it happened in a blur, the exit to the store is almost 2 feet from where he and the unknown were. They took off with his binder. We ran after but it was like a scene from a movie. They had a get-away car ready and jumped in and took off. However, without thinking, the unknowns left their binder and bags with them. Mostly Standard stuff, many were rares and sleeves. The owner took it upon himself to give everything in the bag to the guy whose binder was stolen.
About 23 people were there. We didn’t recognize those unknown but ½ stated not to allow him to take all of the items, others were YES GIVE IT ALL.
The reason most were angry is of course they also wanted what was in the bag, other really didn't care.
Was the owner wrong?
Should he had the right to give it all to him or share with everyone in the store or the owner hold on to it?
And secret tears still flow
What it meant to lose you
No on will ever know
To mourn for you no more
To remember all the happy times
Life still has much in store
We pledge to you today
A hallowed place within our hearts
Is where you’ll always stay
Ahhhh greed, we meet again
I think it rather justified to give their cards to the victim.
My Buying Thread
I suppose the "correct" thing to do would be for the store owner to hold on to the stuff and return it when possible, but I doubt those unknowns would ever show up again anyways.
Give it all to the kid who got jacked.
He may play or trade (by value equality) with the cards they left. He can not sell them.
This, of course, is in case those binders were also stolen and somebody (another young guy probably) is looking for and can accurately claim them.
The little kid probably had no idea what he had. He could have had moxen, etc.
The right thing to do would be to file a police report, and hope that camera's got their license plate numbers and prosecute them to the full extend of the law, which unless he had $1,000+ worth of cards, would be like 100 hours of community service, a small fine, and reparations to the victim.
Honestly though, just because he's little doesn't mean he's not the biggest shark in the store.
Thieves who leave property not used as part of a crime do not waive their rights to the property. Although finding anybody who's going to argue with the store owner or the kid might be tough, technically the thieves would be in the right legally speaking to get their property back. However, if they don't ask for the property back in a reasonable amount of time—for example, because it would risk identifying themselves—the property may be considered abandoned. At that point the store owner can safely give it to the victim.
So the better way would be for the store owner to hold the cards as "possibly abandoned" and cooperate with the kid and the police to try to identify the thieves as Tybalt suggested. If the police don't need the cards as evidence and time passes (a month or two) without the thieves claiming it, the store owner can give them to the victim.
It sucks, but that's probably the right way to do it.
Most of the sharks in my store, myself included, are in the 12-14 age range.
In any case, just because someone is a shark doesn't mean it's okay to steal from them.
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Mythic rares are fine.
Heh, if a 12 year old kid even tried to get a look at my binder, I'd tell him to sod off. But then, I play at a shop where the average age seems to be around 24, and we like it that way.
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This is a good way to get yourself and others hurt. Get the licence number and let them go.
When I go play magic there's nothing overtly identifying on my cards/backpack.
Also, these thieves used their cards as a part of the crime: If they had no "trade" to offer, the kid probably wouldn't have shown them his binder.
Unfortunately the bag and its contents are evidence so it's in everyone's interest to let it go.
Thanks Argentleman;)
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If you don't like just 'handing it over,' I'm sure you can arrange for everyone to agree that the kid found all that standard stuff and handed it over to the owner. Owner will hold it for a week as 'lost property.' If people come to collect it, spring them. If it isn't, give it to the 'finder.' That seems fair to me
I don't think so either, I was just meaning it that the kid wasn't necessarily helpless.
You see that kid is part of an undercover group of Terrorists, you may know them as Al-Qeda but they are actually much more diabolical. They know the truth behind the game you guys consider to be.. just a 'game.' It is actually so much more. The legendary Power Nine as you call them, are actually powerful beyond your wildest dreams. That kid had them. The Power Nine, with him, in his possession hidden behind his Force of Wills. That kid was a carrier, a Transporter if you will, and he was willing to Tinker his Mox sapphire for a Blightsteel Colossus on Turn 1. Sounds amazing right? Too good to be true? Think again.
I have now in my collection the Power Nine, and I am the only thing separating the world from that kid trying to leverage his Blightsteel Colossus on the world. He wants nothing more than to destroy the Great Wall of China to become more powerful, for you see. He is a fan of Land Destruction in addition to Tinker.
You may think of me as an enemy, but I along with my elite group of Spies and Assassins, we call ourselves 'The Sharks.'
You may not like us, you may hate us, you may think Sharks are lame because Great Whites aren't 'really endangered' but we are! We are so endangered. Because of kids like him, and their merger with Al-Qeda and the desire to get their hands on the Weapons of Mass Mana Acceleration, they need to be stopped.
And we're the only ones who can do it.
Anyways, this story in the OP is pretty off, I don't actually believe it happened.
FWIW, neither do I. Who DOES that? Over..4x FoW's? Getaway car and everything? Seriously? Come on, man.
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This. Normally I would support giving the victim the cards that the theives left behind, until I realize that those cards might not actually be theirs. For that reason, it would be better to hold onto the whole collection and wait until it can be discerned whether those cards belong to another person or not. If the cards the theives left behind are definitely their property, well then tough **** for them, that's what they get for preying on a god-damn child.
Also, OP, this really should be reported to the authorities.
As the OP, Some of you may not believe it could have happened. However, in actuality it did. As you read in the beginning this Young Man's Brother is known around the store. He also helped us all to get cards that were unable to before. He no longer wanted to play but his brother did. We looked after him but unfortunately things like this do happen. I was also there when in Chicago Tournaments and Pre-Releases, many bandits were trying to steal bags from other when not looking. This was just unfortunate. The owner tried to see if there was any identification in the bag but nothing but as I stated, four fat pack boxes and three packages of sleeves. The owner has moved the tables in the far back and any trades are done in the corner where all can see and still able to catch anyone doing things dishonest.
And secret tears still flow
What it meant to lose you
No on will ever know
To mourn for you no more
To remember all the happy times
Life still has much in store
We pledge to you today
A hallowed place within our hearts
Is where you’ll always stay
I'd suggest calling in the police and trying to get the originals back. Then allowing the kid to keep the thieves stuff as unclaimed lost property.
Art is life itself.
Thanks for sharing this story. I now recall reading a similar MO in another theft report a while back, though it was at a large event of some kind instead of a store. Still, both incidents involved a grab and run near the entrance of the venue, along with a getaway car. That is apparently an opportunity thieves are on the look out for and something I'll have to keep in mind.
People talk about how much their cards are worth all the time. It becomes of paramount importance to actually playing the game or caring about the health of the game itself.
Modern Masters is a good example. We want to support Modern says WotC. In order to give everybody who might have not gotten into the game until just recently we're going to reprint a bunch of old cards from the last seven or eight years. This will give people (especially the newer and younger ones) a good opportunity to catch up on necessary pieces for the game. Great! That's a wonderful idea.
Until you get to that part where they say - we're going to sell it in smaller boxes, charge more for it, and short-print it intentionally by running a limited supply. Even their "solutions" to try and fix problems with game piece availability is a shameless marketing scheme.
When you have cards and pieces that are worth so much that you can't comfortably play with them or bring them out in public you have an issue that needs addressing.
Just ask the recent smattering of people that have: had their car broken into and $75,000 worth of cards stolen, David Williams who had his Vintage deck stolen at Gen Con last year, or the poor kid at the Chicago store who had something of inherent and personal value that he and his brother shared stolen.
You can have the stupidest games worth the most money though. Go check out Yu-Gi-Oh! Some people have the super-deluxe, ultra-rare, holo-gold, ghost-foil card. That comes in one pack out of every 20,000 and sells for five grand or so.
And you wonder why Magic and games that intentionally short-print product have problems with theft?
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