The people that view Sea of Clouds and Tundra as identical have probably never even had the chance to play a game with that kind of efficient mana (ie fetch into ABU dual). Whenever I am helping a newer player improve their deck, they are always skeptical of shocks and fetches until they play them for a few games. The battlebond cycle would have been fantastic in commander if they had land types. As is, they're decent, but limited in what can pull them out of library.
The argument of "you don't need dual lands" basically seems to boil down to people just not having the chance to play said cards to understand why legacy decks run them. Ignorance due to lack of availability is hardly a reason to point towards when looking to deny any further availability.
They literally could have solved the dual land problem in commander by making the battlebond land cycle typed, but they still avoid typing non basics as often as possible for fear they create a land to replace ABU's. We'll definitely never see anything in standard better than or equivocal to shocks because of the fragile balance that is modern.
The people that view Sea of Clouds and Tundra as identical have probably never even had the chance to play a game with that kind of efficient mana (ie fetch into ABU dual). Whenever I am helping a newer player improve their deck, they are always skeptical of shocks and fetches until they play them for a few games. The battlebond cycle would have been fantastic in commander if they had land types. As is, they're decent, but limited in what can pull them out of library.
The argument of "you don't need dual lands" basically seems to boil down to people just not having the chance to play said cards to understand why legacy decks run them. Ignorance due to lack of availability is hardly a reason to point towards when looking to deny any further availability.
They literally could have solved the dual land problem in commander by making the battlebond land cycle typed, but they still avoid typing non basics as often as possible for fear they create a land to replace ABU's. We'll definitely never see anything in standard better than or equivocal to shocks because of the fragile balance that is modern.
A couple things here:
What I think you are missing is many players don't care if there decks are super optimized and don't like super optimized efficient play because it's too fast and consistent. Hell, most players don't goldfish their decks on TappedOut or MTG Salvation. There are tons of Magic players that like the game but aren't on MTGS or reddit and in the know of the community. There are tons of players that don't play at LGS's and only play with their friends. You can call it ignorance, although I think that's a bit pretentious, but regardless of the reason, players like you that are eager to play with reprinted cards on the reserved list are in a small minority of players.
If they made the battlebond basically lands typed, they would literally function as original duals in Commander which is too powerful for cards Wizards wants to print today. It isn't even necessary because there are plenty of dual lands in the format so you don't need another dual land that has to be perfect.
What I think you are missing is many players don't care if there decks are super optimized and don't like super optimized efficient play because it's too fast and consistent. Hell, most players don't goldfish their decks on TappedOut or MTG Salvation. There are tons of Magic players that like the game but aren't on MTGS or reddit and in the know of the community. There are tons of players that don't play at LGS's and only play with their friends. You can call it ignorance, although I think that's a bit pretentious, but regardless of the reason, players like you that are eager to play with reprinted cards on the reserved list are in a small minority of players.
If they made the battlebond basically lands typed, they would literally function as original duals in Commander which is too powerful for cards Wizards wants to print today. It isn't even necessary because there are plenty of dual lands in the format so you don't need another dual land that has to be perfect.
My point is that those players will play with what they have. They typically have commander precons and such that leave them with guild gates, evolving wilds/terramorphic expanses, etc. These types of players that do finally visit an LGS or hit up the internet for some suggestions find the most common suggestion is to fix their mana base and they often start looking into it (this has been a personal experience when dealing with new players that get into magic with commander). If the cards are available, people will build with them.
There actually are only 2 dual lands in commander other than ABU's and that is Shock-lands and Tango-lands (you may or may not count Murmuring Bosk). I'd hardly call that dozens. There are a lot of untyped non-basics and that is fine and all, but typed land types are what we could certainly use more of (especially if they are essentially worthless to legacy and vintage players, which seems to be a driving force, to avoid crazy price inflation).
So, I have been really playing magic since Tempest came out. I was in middle school at the time and couldn't really buy much. My parents were of the mindset that the cards would be worthless over time and wouldn't buy me anything terribly expensive, just sealed product. Cut to a few years ago when I finally had enough money to really start picking up those higher dollar cards I wanted. I have a fair collection from over the years, and have gotten lucky on discovering old worthless cards that spiked.
I don't kid myself, I have no interest in vintage or legacy whether the cards were available or not. What I do play is commander and do so in an environment where it is 4-man pods for prizes. This means no proxies. So now that I'm in the market for cards like cradle and such, I find myself in the midst of mad buyouts. I no longer can snag dual lands, cradle, even cards like Serra's Sanctum for a reasonable price anymore. These prices are absolutely insane, and anyone that isn't a big money investor or business is not going to be snagging most of these anymore. I find this is starting to create a real power gap in commander as more and more people enter the format. Suddenly cards like Tabernacle and Mox Diamond/LED immediately cause resentment at the table among newer players.
I understand the purpose and the intent of the original reserved list as a safety net when they printed chronicles and upset a large portion of invested players at the time. The game was in a bad spot and they couldn't afford to lose the support. Things have changed pretty dramatically since then. The people that would be most upset by changes to the reserved list would definitely be collectors and investors, who likely haven't supported the game directly for decades dealing solely on the secondary market. Now, while the company made this promise to keep the collector side happy, we find ourselves in an interesting position where one of the most popular formats is becoming more and more outrageously expensive with each passing month. I am totally on board with keeping power nine on reserved list and never reprinting them for history's sake, and keeping the most iconic cards in magic as the true collector's items. I, however, find it harder and harder to agree with the upholding of the reserved list as I watch more and more investors buyout older cards for the sole purpose of causing artificial price inflation to fatten their wallets at the expense of actual players. I really feel Hasbro/Wizards need to step down and reevaluate their reprint policy on the reserved list. I think masterpieces and FTV sets were a great way to reprint said cards, and was fairly annoyed when there was backlash over the premium reprints.
We're at the point where it's starting to become investors and collectors vs players who actively support the game. Hell, with all the fakes getting printed of these older cards, I think a lot of people would be happier buying newer versions with the stamp on them and such.
You know, I agree with many of your points... and I myself basically play draft or Commander exclusively. I have also hit a wall where there are cards I want that are out of reach.
But I do not think WOTC will ever reprint cards from the RL. Vintage and Legacy can be played for a fraction of the price on MTGO. Rather than upset collectors, rather than risk anything like Chronicles possibly happening again, they can just direct people who want to enter these formats to MTGO.
As a commander player who enjoys the social part of the game, this is a hollow solution. I have no interest in playing EDH online. In my opinion, the commander rules committee should ban cards that are unreasonably expensive. It is not the best solution (again, I would love the RL to be eliminated), but it is better than what we have now. Considering WOTC has a viable alternative to breaking their promise, I do not expect the RL to ever change.
I hope that Wizards never abolishes the reserve list.
I played through the chronicles disaster. The problem with the reserve list is that people can only see the most immediate thing blocking the path of picking up their desirable cards. What they fail to see is that the reserve list is a big reason why the cards are desirable in the first place.
Chronicles came out in 1995. 23 years ago.
You can still see the legacy of the damage Chronicles caused today.
This is a listing of Arcades Sabboth, Chronicles version. 4 for $2.20. A playset for $2.20!
23 years ago, prior to the reprint, in 1995, Arcaddes Sabboth went for about $40. How many of you remember that?
Only now has the price of Arcaddes Sabboth English Legends recovered its price.
My old magic collection is littered with junk chronicles. Prior to Chronicles, every kid coveted the elder dragon-the most powerful creatures in magic at the time. After the reprint, no one wanted it. Or perhaps more accurately, we wanted it. We got it. Elder dragons were about $5 after the reprint and then said meh. And went on to do other things in life. We quit magic, finished school, read comics, passed on magic for the dozens of other fun things mtg has always competed with.
The reserve list creates the scarcity responsible for the desirability of mtg in the first place.
Even today, the cards of chronicles are mostly junk with a few exceptions that have gained notable value--blood moon, concordant crossroads, etc.
Chronicles didn't do it alone however. That same year, 4th edition also reprinted a ton of old cards from antiquities and legends. The real issue though was that the damage was done.
After seeing some of the most coveted cards reprinted, MTG lost its desirability as a collectible.
Once mtg loses it's desirability, people wake up. They realize they don't want to spend 3 bucks a pack. They realizes it's just another game.
And if it's just another game with no collectible value, then its a ridiculously expensive form of entertainment that wont compete favorably with the thousands of other forms of entertainment.
I hope that Wizards never abolishes the reserve list.
I played through the chronicles disaster. The problem with the reserve list is that people can only see the most immediate thing blocking the path of picking up their desirable cards. What they fail to see is that the reserve list is a big reason why the cards are desirable in the first place.
Chronicles came out in 1995. 23 years ago.
You can still see the legacy of the damage Chronicles caused today.
This is a listing of Arcades Sabboth, Chronicles version. 4 for $2.20. A playset for $2.20!
23 years ago, prior to the reprint, in 1995, Arcaddes Sabboth went for about $40. How many of you remember that?
Only now has the price of Arcaddes Sabboth English Legends recovered its price.
My old magic collection is littered with junk chronicles. Prior to Chronicles, every kid coveted the elder dragon-the most powerful creatures in magic at the time. After the reprint, no one wanted it. Or perhaps more accurately, we wanted it. We got it. Elder dragons were about $5 after the reprint and then said meh. And went on to do other things in life. We quit magic, finished school, read comics, passed on magic for the dozens of other fun things mtg has always competed with.
The reserve list creates the scarcity responsible for the desirability of mtg in the first place.
Even today, the cards of chronicles are mostly junk with a few exceptions that have gained notable value--blood moon, concordant crossroads, etc.
Chronicles didn't do it alone however. That same year, 4th edition also reprinted a ton of old cards from antiquities and legends. The real issue though was that the damage was done.
After seeing some of the most coveted cards reprinted, MTG lost its desirability as a collectible.
Once mtg loses it's desirability, people wake up. They realize they don't want to spend 3 bucks a pack. They realizes it's just another game.
And if it's just another game with no collectible value, then its a ridiculously expensive form of entertainment that wont compete favorably with the thousands of other forms of entertainment.
1. The Elder Dragons were coveted because they were rare, not because they were uber powerful. Nicol Bolas is the only one who is playable. I would rather field a Shivan Dragon then pretty much any of the OG Elder Dragons.
2. Most people just want access to the good cards, so they can play eternal formats in print. No one cares about the junk rares that are only valuable due to artificial scarcity.
3. Look at Hearthstone. There is no collectivity in that game. You get cards to play cards. When they rotate out, you stop playing with them. Hearthstone makes a billion dollars a year. The argument that people only play Magic due to the investment opportunities is silly.
4. The original versions of cards will ALWAYS hold better value than newer versions, especially if older versions had small print runs.
Regardless, it is probably easier for WotC to just make cards like the new Battlebond lands, which are functional reprints of Reserved List cards but limited to one type of play.
What I think you are missing is many players don't care if there decks are super optimized and don't like super optimized efficient play because it's too fast and consistent. Hell, most players don't goldfish their decks on TappedOut or MTG Salvation. There are tons of Magic players that like the game but aren't on MTGS or reddit and in the know of the community. There are tons of players that don't play at LGS's and only play with their friends. You can call it ignorance, although I think that's a bit pretentious, but regardless of the reason, players like you that are eager to play with reprinted cards on the reserved list are in a small minority of players.
If they made the battlebond basically lands typed, they would literally function as original duals in Commander which is too powerful for cards Wizards wants to print today. It isn't even necessary because there are plenty of dual lands in the format so you don't need another dual land that has to be perfect.
My point is that those players will play with what they have. They typically have commander precons and such that leave them with guild gates, evolving wilds/terramorphic expanses, etc. These types of players that do finally visit an LGS or hit up the internet for some suggestions find the most common suggestion is to fix their mana base and they often start looking into it (this has been a personal experience when dealing with new players that get into magic with commander). If the cards are available, people will build with them.
There actually are only 2 dual lands in commander other than ABU's and that is Shock-lands and Tango-lands (you may or may not count Murmuring Bosk). I'd hardly call that dozens. There are a lot of untyped non-basics and that is fine and all, but typed land types are what we could certainly use more of (especially if they are essentially worthless to legacy and vintage players, which seems to be a driving force, to avoid crazy price inflation).
Referring to the part of the post that I put in bold. True, in my experience. Had a cousin whom I played magic a lot with almost 10 years ago.. said he doesn't like to use fetchlands.. fast forward to the present.. we met again, I lent him some of my cards. He played a deck with fetches. Another time, one of my Modern friends who used to play with evolving wilds because he was on a budget... then he saved up money to buy tarns, and of course he used those tarns the next time we played. People will build with what they have.
About the reserved list... actually cashed in already on all reserved list cards that I own. Sold 2 plateau, 2 taiga, and 1 savannah last year to various people. Well, thank you Reserved list... for giving me additional Christmas money for 2017. @_@
I hope that Wizards never abolishes the reserve list.
I played through the chronicles disaster. The problem with the reserve list is that people can only see the most immediate thing blocking the path of picking up their desirable cards. What they fail to see is that the reserve list is a big reason why the cards are desirable in the first place.
Chronicles came out in 1995. 23 years ago.
You can still see the legacy of the damage Chronicles caused today.
This is a listing of Arcades Sabboth, Chronicles version. 4 for $2.20. A playset for $2.20!
23 years ago, prior to the reprint, in 1995, Arcaddes Sabboth went for about $40. How many of you remember that?
Only now has the price of Arcaddes Sabboth English Legends recovered its price.
My old magic collection is littered with junk chronicles. Prior to Chronicles, every kid coveted the elder dragon-the most powerful creatures in magic at the time. After the reprint, no one wanted it. Or perhaps more accurately, we wanted it. We got it. Elder dragons were about $5 after the reprint and then said meh. And went on to do other things in life. We quit magic, finished school, read comics, passed on magic for the dozens of other fun things mtg has always competed with.
The reserve list creates the scarcity responsible for the desirability of mtg in the first place.
Even today, the cards of chronicles are mostly junk with a few exceptions that have gained notable value--blood moon, concordant crossroads, etc.
Chronicles didn't do it alone however. That same year, 4th edition also reprinted a ton of old cards from antiquities and legends. The real issue though was that the damage was done.
After seeing some of the most coveted cards reprinted, MTG lost its desirability as a collectible.
Once mtg loses it's desirability, people wake up. They realize they don't want to spend 3 bucks a pack. They realizes it's just another game.
And if it's just another game with no collectible value, then its a ridiculously expensive form of entertainment that wont compete favorably with the thousands of other forms of entertainment.
The reserved list was created because a handful of collectors threw a hissy fit and WotC panicked. Most of the advocates for the reserved list have never played the game or have not played the game for years. Non-players should have zero say in whether or not a card can and should be reprinted. And lets not mince words here, Vintage and Legacy are slowly dying as formats because of the Reserved list, and that is a tragedy.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
There actually are only 2 dual lands in commander other than ABU's and that is Shock-lands and Tango-lands (you may or may not count Murmuring Bosk). I'd hardly call that dozens. There are a lot of untyped non-basics and that is fine and all, but typed land types are what we could certainly use more of (especially if they are essentially worthless to legacy and vintage players, which seems to be a driving force, to avoid crazy price inflation).
I hope that Wizards never abolishes the reserve list.
I played through the chronicles disaster. The problem with the reserve list is that people can only see the most immediate thing blocking the path of picking up their desirable cards. What they fail to see is that the reserve list is a big reason why the cards are desirable in the first place.
Chronicles came out in 1995. 23 years ago.
You can still see the legacy of the damage Chronicles caused today.
This is a listing of Arcades Sabboth, Chronicles version. 4 for $2.20. A playset for $2.20!
23 years ago, prior to the reprint, in 1995, Arcaddes Sabboth went for about $40. How many of you remember that?
Only now has the price of Arcaddes Sabboth English Legends recovered its price.
My old magic collection is littered with junk chronicles. Prior to Chronicles, every kid coveted the elder dragon-the most powerful creatures in magic at the time. After the reprint, no one wanted it. Or perhaps more accurately, we wanted it. We got it. Elder dragons were about $5 after the reprint and then said meh. And went on to do other things in life. We quit magic, finished school, read comics, passed on magic for the dozens of other fun things mtg has always competed with.
The reserve list creates the scarcity responsible for the desirability of mtg in the first place.
Even today, the cards of chronicles are mostly junk with a few exceptions that have gained notable value--blood moon, concordant crossroads, etc.
Chronicles didn't do it alone however. That same year, 4th edition also reprinted a ton of old cards from antiquities and legends. The real issue though was that the damage was done.
After seeing some of the most coveted cards reprinted, MTG lost its desirability as a collectible.
Once mtg loses it's desirability, people wake up. They realize they don't want to spend 3 bucks a pack. They realizes it's just another game.
And if it's just another game with no collectible value, then its a ridiculously expensive form of entertainment that wont compete favorably with the thousands of other forms of entertainment.
The reserved list was created because a handful of collectors threw a hissy fit and WotC panicked. Most of the advocates for the reserved list have never played the game or have not played the game for years. Non-players should have zero say in whether or not a card can and should be reprinted. And lets not mince words here, Vintage and Legacy are slowly dying as formats because of the Reserved list, and that is a tragedy.
Responding to the bold highlighted sentence:
I have been 100% behind this sentiment in the past - but I have hope now that the RL won't matter as much since seeing Battlebond - and I say the following with hope. I've made pleas to WoTC in the past and have seen the needed change I wanted, but not yet applied as expansively as I would desire.. There is legitimate pretext now for a better future in Vintage and Legacy.. A year ago I urged WoTC to expand the concept of format-bypassing cards like what we see with the 56 new cards per year in the Commander products.
Since seeing WoTC take and expand on this concept seen in Commander and using it in another product, Battlebond, I believe there is reasonable hope to see the format-bypassing concept expanded upon - which is just about the best alternative to removing the RL that I can think of for injecting new content and focus on all of the eternal formats. We just have to cross our fingers that WoTC is serious about using this concept in more than just casual format-designed products.
I have hope that the next equivalent to the Masters series may use this concept for including format-bypassing cards - which would also better justify the $10 per pack price tag much more than what we currently get for such a steep price.
Take what you want from my thoughts, but I do have reasons that I think are justifiable to see a better future for eternal formats without needing to do anything to the RL.
EDIT: Also, I foresee WoTC justifying inaction on the RL if they whole-heartedly endorse the concept of format-bypassing cards in Eternal format products.
So in response to what I wrote, and what others have as well, I wanted to say what I think the solution to the RL issue should be.
Wizards made a promise, and I do not think under any circumstances they should break that promise, especially one as deeply embedded as the RL.
The trust Wizards has is a vital component of the market. MTG is not like bicycle playing cards. They need the faith of the secondary market to sell cardboard for 90 dollars a box. Nobody buys cardboard for 90 bucks a box for a worthless box and does it over and over again.
So here's the solution(s).
1. Wizards creates a format where they have full authority to reprint whatever they want. Modern and Standard.
2. Wizards may reprint cards "close enough" that does not count as an official reprint. ex. Twincast, Fork, and Reverberate.
3. Wizards can supercede RL cards. We all know anti-RL people dont care about getting their copies of Yare. I dont hear any of you crying that you can't find copies of Serra Aviary, Delif's Cubes, or Conch Horns, or demanding more cards with Cumulative upkeeps.
4. Wizards "reprints" online.
5. Wizards creates new formats.
As someone who's recently bought into Legacy, I have a full playset of duals, LEDs, and City of Traitors, and I am still 100% on board with the abolishing of the Reserved List. It really just needs to go.
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Wizards wont ever do the needed actions to make modern or legacy affordable. The company got themselves into a horrible position by becoming the support structure for over half of the game stores that run TCGs, and many of those stores make a living off of selling old, rare, and sought after cards by playing with the card market. Konami annihilated their own game and a large number of other TCGs just died out right like Digimon, Megaman Battle network, etc. Vanguard got expensive, Buddyfight is just kind of there, and I guess Final Fantasy TCG is a thing (along with Force of Will, which is hanging on like a pro). Just about the only games I know are doing well are Pokemon and I think the Dragonball Super TCG. If wizards tanks the secondary market prices on all the hyper expensive cards by doing another major reprint, it will likely end a lot of small businesses and possibly force Card Kingdom, SCG, and CFB into financial peril.
The issue I see with Magic the Gathering is that if someone wants to play competitively, they might as well pick up another trading card game. Most other TCGs have it so that someone can build and play on a tournament level for 60-100 usd, often with good prize support.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Wizards wont ever do the needed actions to make modern or legacy affordable.
What's affordable?
You can play standard (competitive) for $200-$400. You get to play that deck until rotation hits, and you have to buy a new one. Over, and over, and over.
You can play Modern (competitive) for $400-$1800 (Jund) while most decks are around $1000. Outside of some pretty poor choices, you get to play that deck 'forever'.
You can play Legacy, the first to be hit by the Reserve List issues, for what looks like $1200 (Death and Taxes, Mono White) to $6000+ in the case of decks that have Blue Dual Lands in them.
$6000 vs $1800, is...quite a range of 'affordable'.
(Vintage decks btw are in the $30,000.00 range...)
Modern is affordable, its in fact the most affordable competitive format.
Wizards wont ever do the needed actions to make modern or legacy affordable.
What's affordable?
You can play standard (competitive) for $200-$400. You get to play that deck until rotation hits, and you have to buy a new one. Over, and over, and over.
You can play Modern (competitive) for $400-$1800 (Jund) while most decks are around $1000. Outside of some pretty poor choices, you get to play that deck 'forever'.
You can play Legacy, the first to be hit by the Reserve List issues, for what looks like $1200 (Death and Taxes, Mono White) to $6000+ in the case of decks that have Blue Dual Lands in them.
$6000 vs $1800, is...quite a range of 'affordable'.
(Vintage decks btw are in the $30,000.00 range...)
Modern is affordable, its in fact the most affordable competitive format.
I can play any other TCG or online game competitively in the 60-100 dollar range, with the upper range being 150 dollars. Wizards of the Coast is literally the only company maintaining a game with such a high competitive price point that peoples eyes roll over. At least with Games Workshop and Warhammer you get something to display on a freaking shelf.
For the price of a bloody standard deck I can afford an eternally playable deck in games like Buddyfight, Force of Will, the Pokemon TCG, Hearthstone (which they broke horribly with a particular battlecry mechanic...), etc. That's not even the tip of the iceberg, either. The card quality has been going downhill since RTR, with the second wave print runs having noticeably different feel. Then we started seeing more and more mistakes and misprints in later sets like BFZ, until we got to the curling happening in Amonkhet.
And the reason for all of this? The company got saddled into a bad position. They have the RL promise causing issues, the "support the LGS" crowd pushing the responsibility of keeping small stores alive onto the shoulders of Wizards of the Coast, letting other TCG companies like Konami ride on Wizards back, and setting unreasonable restrictions on reprinting older mechanics that people use. Can anyone really blame them for just tossing their arms up and just not caring a whole lot about undoing the RL, for example? That kind of stuff just drains the passion out of making a game and turns it into being about making a profit.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Wizards wont ever do the needed actions to make modern or legacy affordable.
What's affordable?
You can play standard (competitive) for $200-$400. You get to play that deck until rotation hits, and you have to buy a new one. Over, and over, and over.
You can play Modern (competitive) for $400-$1800 (Jund) while most decks are around $1000. Outside of some pretty poor choices, you get to play that deck 'forever'.
You can play Legacy, the first to be hit by the Reserve List issues, for what looks like $1200 (Death and Taxes, Mono White) to $6000+ in the case of decks that have Blue Dual Lands in them.
$6000 vs $1800, is...quite a range of 'affordable'.
(Vintage decks btw are in the $30,000.00 range...)
Modern is affordable, its in fact the most affordable competitive format.
Agreed on the affordability of Modern. I was able to build several tier 2 and tier 3 decks complete with sideboards.. that are good enough for FNM each week.
I can play any other TCG or online game competitively in the 60-100 dollar range, with the upper range being 150 dollars. Wizards of the Coast is literally the only company maintaining a game with such a high competitive price point that peoples eyes roll over. At least with Games Workshop and Warhammer you get something to display on a freaking shelf
While other TCG's might be cheaper.. there's just something that MTG did right that keeps me coming back to the game.. even if the FNM store near my house closed, there's always people I can play magic with.. my brother, 4 cousins, 2 competitive Modern friends, and even my cosplayer friend Karen enjoy playing this game. If I switched to something like Pokemon, there's no one for me to play with.
That secondary market is why MtG is #1 in trading card games with an extensive history as well as a booming playerbase. Honestly? I'd prefer to play pokemon. It is a better game, cheaper, with a basic yet functionally superior online client. There just isn't as reliable a source of game stores around me with ten people to bother (tried for like two months).
It isn't WOTC's fault that there are people who are, in my opinion, so crazy they will pay $100 for a copy of Engineered Explosives that could be announced for a reprint next week. The secondary market is just people offering cards for prices and other people willing to pay that price. If nobody bought an Underground Sea for six months that price would fall.
Explosives is 100$ card now? There's no one here that I know to pay 100$ for that card. Although there is one who paid me 50$ for a copy a few months ago. ^___^ Just my opinion.. I think the competitiveness of the game that drives people to buy cards at insane prices. Wednesday here now... on Sat there's someone who will buy our 2 ensnaring bridge. I'm selling them because Modern has no reserved list, and prices could drop once WoTC decides to make a large reprint.
If the Reserved list would be removed and a reprint happens.. prices would drop right away. What happened to Karakas and Imperial Recruiter... prices dropped when they got reprinted, although the cards are still a bit expensive even with the price drop.
Explosives is 100$ card now? There's no one here that I know to pay 100$ for that card. Although there is one who paid me 50$ for a copy a few months ago. ^___^ Just my opinion.. I think the competitiveness of the game that drives people to buy cards at insane prices. Wednesday here now... on Sat there's someone who will buy our 2 ensnaring bridge. I'm selling them because Modern has no reserved list, and prices could drop once WoTC decides to make a large reprint.
If the Reserved list would be removed and a reprint happens.. prices would drop right away. What happened to Karakas and Imperial Recruiter... prices dropped when they got reprinted, although the cards are still a bit expensive even with the price drop.
TCGPlayer has three sellers listing LP or NM copies of the original fifth dawn printing before it hits $99.99. Again, though, prices won't fall as long as people keep buying. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the RL abolished. It just won't happen, so I basically gave up on playing with those cards.
The thing is that the gaming model for TCGs proved to work for games when the game is young and the audience is limited. When the game gets older the model quickly becomes toxic because the system for scarcity works against the growth of the game. What makes gold valuable is not its use, but also the difficulty in acquiring it and its unique appearance. When more people desire that resource due to growth in population or new found uses, this puts strain on the supply and the price per unit rises.
TCGs use the desirability of a resource to drive the distribution of other resources. However, they basically bundle a lot of bulk like scrapwood and less needed resources like scrap iron in with the gold. In addition, they don't promise you even get the gold resource with a direct purchase. This has led to a secondary industry that filters the mass resource purchases and allows direct purchase of the gold.
This secondary industry is suffering the same issues as recycling centers. They end up with masses of bulk no one needs and not enough of the resources buyers actually request.
Wizards tcg model dictates they can not make old, desired resources more common. Thus the issue of supply can never be addressed.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I checked too at SCG. Explosives is indeed 100$ card. Guess I lost out on making more profit out of the explosives I got... was restless after WoTC started releasing Masters sets one after another, and then the core set revival. So I sold it the first person who offered 50$, which was it's SCG price some months ago.
About the reserved list. Well, my opinion is just plain biased because I used to own some of the original duals.. kept them for almost 10 years, then made money selling them just last year. And to be honest, I lost a friend for years because I won't sell him the duals.. someone on facebook gave me a higher offer and I sold the two taiga and two plateau to those people instead of my friend. Now, I don't have anymore duals.. and have no more plans coming back to Legacy as Modern is a better environment. I do agree that the Reserved list has to go... for Legacy to have a chance of surviving longer.
I can play any other TCG or online game competitively in the 60-100 dollar range, with the upper range being 150 dollars. Wizards of the Coast is literally the only company maintaining a game with such a high competitive price point that peoples eyes roll over. At least with Games Workshop and Warhammer you get something to display on a freaking shelf.
For the price of a bloody standard deck I can afford an eternally playable deck in games like Buddyfight, Force of Will, the Pokemon TCG, Hearthstone (which they broke horribly with a particular battlecry mechanic...), etc. That's not even the tip of the iceberg, either. The card quality has been going downhill since RTR, with the second wave print runs having noticeably different feel. Then we started seeing more and more mistakes and misprints in later sets like BFZ, until we got to the curling happening in Amonkhet.
So? There are million things I can do that are cheaper than Magic, though to be fair I am now in the position for the first time since Twin, that I spend $10-$20 on some singles with each set, and I'm good to go. Thats my 'rotation cost' as a pure Modern player. Sets are what, every 3 Months? Wow, what an expensive hobby.
I can play any other TCG or online game competitively in the 60-100 dollar range, with the upper range being 150 dollars. Wizards of the Coast is literally the only company maintaining a game with such a high competitive price point that peoples eyes roll over. At least with Games Workshop and Warhammer you get something to display on a freaking shelf.
For the price of a bloody standard deck I can afford an eternally playable deck in games like Buddyfight, Force of Will, the Pokemon TCG, Hearthstone (which they broke horribly with a particular battlecry mechanic...), etc. That's not even the tip of the iceberg, either. The card quality has been going downhill since RTR, with the second wave print runs having noticeably different feel. Then we started seeing more and more mistakes and misprints in later sets like BFZ, until we got to the curling happening in Amonkhet.
So? There are million things I can do that are cheaper than Magic, though to be fair I am now in the position for the first time since Twin, that I spend $10-$20 on some singles with each set, and I'm good to go. Thats my 'rotation cost' as a pure Modern player. Sets are what, every 3 Months? Wow, what an expensive hobby.
As to Hearthstone, Wizards is idiotic for trying to fight Blizz in the digital space. They wont win that one.
The card quality, is a wait and see for me. Dom, Battlebond, and M19 are all fine to me, but lets not move the goal posts.
Is Magic affordable? Outside the reserve list formats, yes.
Well, the game is affordable to specific groups based on factors outside of market value. There is format, available disposable income and long term goals, if they compete in tournaments and can trade to offset costs, etc.
In the raw dollar form assuming someone has nothing and wants a tier 1 modern deck, the game demands a significant up front cost and offers little flexibility and alternative use compared to other entertainment avenues.
I mean, there are people who buy sports cars and think its affordable. It's the same here at mtg salvation. It doesn't mean it is to most people interested in the game.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I can play any other TCG or online game competitively in the 60-100 dollar range, with the upper range being 150 dollars. Wizards of the Coast is literally the only company maintaining a game with such a high competitive price point that peoples eyes roll over. At least with Games Workshop and Warhammer you get something to display on a freaking shelf.
For the price of a bloody standard deck I can afford an eternally playable deck in games like Buddyfight, Force of Will, the Pokemon TCG, Hearthstone (which they broke horribly with a particular battlecry mechanic...), etc. That's not even the tip of the iceberg, either. The card quality has been going downhill since RTR, with the second wave print runs having noticeably different feel. Then we started seeing more and more mistakes and misprints in later sets like BFZ, until we got to the curling happening in Amonkhet.
So? There are million things I can do that are cheaper than Magic, though to be fair I am now in the position for the first time since Twin, that I spend $10-$20 on some singles with each set, and I'm good to go. Thats my 'rotation cost' as a pure Modern player. Sets are what, every 3 Months? Wow, what an expensive hobby.
As to Hearthstone, Wizards is idiotic for trying to fight Blizz in the digital space. They wont win that one.
The card quality, is a wait and see for me. Dom, Battlebond, and M19 are all fine to me, but lets not move the goal posts.
Is Magic affordable? Outside the reserve list formats, yes.
Well, the game is affordable to specific groups based on factors outside of market value. There is format, available disposable income and long term goals, if they compete in tournaments and can trade to offset costs, etc.
In the raw dollar form assuming someone has nothing and wants a tier 1 modern deck, the game demands a significant up front cost and offers little flexibility and alternative use compared to other entertainment avenues.
I mean, there are people who buy sports cars and think its affordable. It's the same here at mtg salvation. It doesn't mean it is to most people interested in the game.
Bingo, on the bold parts.
Storm and Burn are competitive, Tier 1 strategies, and they are in that 400-500 range and will last for the life of the entire format. You get 2 Standard decks for that price, and thats not even counting other competitive (tier 1 is moving the goal posts again) more rogue decks that are cheaper still.
There is enough demand for Modern cards, that staples are getting excessively expensive, yet still sell. To ME that means that no, most people interested are not priced out, we just grumble about it.
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UW Spirits
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The argument of "you don't need dual lands" basically seems to boil down to people just not having the chance to play said cards to understand why legacy decks run them. Ignorance due to lack of availability is hardly a reason to point towards when looking to deny any further availability.
They literally could have solved the dual land problem in commander by making the battlebond land cycle typed, but they still avoid typing non basics as often as possible for fear they create a land to replace ABU's. We'll definitely never see anything in standard better than or equivocal to shocks because of the fragile balance that is modern.
A couple things here:
What I think you are missing is many players don't care if there decks are super optimized and don't like super optimized efficient play because it's too fast and consistent. Hell, most players don't goldfish their decks on TappedOut or MTG Salvation. There are tons of Magic players that like the game but aren't on MTGS or reddit and in the know of the community. There are tons of players that don't play at LGS's and only play with their friends. You can call it ignorance, although I think that's a bit pretentious, but regardless of the reason, players like you that are eager to play with reprinted cards on the reserved list are in a small minority of players.
If they made the battlebond basically lands typed, they would literally function as original duals in Commander which is too powerful for cards Wizards wants to print today. It isn't even necessary because there are plenty of dual lands in the format so you don't need another dual land that has to be perfect.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
My point is that those players will play with what they have. They typically have commander precons and such that leave them with guild gates, evolving wilds/terramorphic expanses, etc. These types of players that do finally visit an LGS or hit up the internet for some suggestions find the most common suggestion is to fix their mana base and they often start looking into it (this has been a personal experience when dealing with new players that get into magic with commander). If the cards are available, people will build with them.
There actually are only 2 dual lands in commander other than ABU's and that is Shock-lands and Tango-lands (you may or may not count Murmuring Bosk). I'd hardly call that dozens. There are a lot of untyped non-basics and that is fine and all, but typed land types are what we could certainly use more of (especially if they are essentially worthless to legacy and vintage players, which seems to be a driving force, to avoid crazy price inflation).
You know, I agree with many of your points... and I myself basically play draft or Commander exclusively. I have also hit a wall where there are cards I want that are out of reach.
But I do not think WOTC will ever reprint cards from the RL. Vintage and Legacy can be played for a fraction of the price on MTGO. Rather than upset collectors, rather than risk anything like Chronicles possibly happening again, they can just direct people who want to enter these formats to MTGO.
As a commander player who enjoys the social part of the game, this is a hollow solution. I have no interest in playing EDH online. In my opinion, the commander rules committee should ban cards that are unreasonably expensive. It is not the best solution (again, I would love the RL to be eliminated), but it is better than what we have now. Considering WOTC has a viable alternative to breaking their promise, I do not expect the RL to ever change.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
I played through the chronicles disaster. The problem with the reserve list is that people can only see the most immediate thing blocking the path of picking up their desirable cards. What they fail to see is that the reserve list is a big reason why the cards are desirable in the first place.
Chronicles came out in 1995. 23 years ago.
You can still see the legacy of the damage Chronicles caused today.
This is a listing of Arcades Sabboth, Chronicles version. 4 for $2.20. A playset for $2.20!
23 years ago, prior to the reprint, in 1995, Arcaddes Sabboth went for about $40. How many of you remember that?
Only now has the price of Arcaddes Sabboth English Legends recovered its price.
I used Arcaddes Sabboth as an example, but you can look at the rest of the trash here.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?page=0&set=[%22Chronicles%22]
How many of yall are clamoring to collect these?
My old magic collection is littered with junk chronicles. Prior to Chronicles, every kid coveted the elder dragon-the most powerful creatures in magic at the time. After the reprint, no one wanted it. Or perhaps more accurately, we wanted it. We got it. Elder dragons were about $5 after the reprint and then said meh. And went on to do other things in life. We quit magic, finished school, read comics, passed on magic for the dozens of other fun things mtg has always competed with.
The reserve list creates the scarcity responsible for the desirability of mtg in the first place.
Even today, the cards of chronicles are mostly junk with a few exceptions that have gained notable value--blood moon, concordant crossroads, etc.
Chronicles didn't do it alone however. That same year, 4th edition also reprinted a ton of old cards from antiquities and legends. The real issue though was that the damage was done.
After seeing some of the most coveted cards reprinted, MTG lost its desirability as a collectible.
Once mtg loses it's desirability, people wake up. They realize they don't want to spend 3 bucks a pack. They realizes it's just another game.
And if it's just another game with no collectible value, then its a ridiculously expensive form of entertainment that wont compete favorably with the thousands of other forms of entertainment.
1. The Elder Dragons were coveted because they were rare, not because they were uber powerful. Nicol Bolas is the only one who is playable. I would rather field a Shivan Dragon then pretty much any of the OG Elder Dragons.
2. Most people just want access to the good cards, so they can play eternal formats in print. No one cares about the junk rares that are only valuable due to artificial scarcity.
3. Look at Hearthstone. There is no collectivity in that game. You get cards to play cards. When they rotate out, you stop playing with them. Hearthstone makes a billion dollars a year. The argument that people only play Magic due to the investment opportunities is silly.
4. The original versions of cards will ALWAYS hold better value than newer versions, especially if older versions had small print runs.
Regardless, it is probably easier for WotC to just make cards like the new Battlebond lands, which are functional reprints of Reserved List cards but limited to one type of play.
Referring to the part of the post that I put in bold. True, in my experience. Had a cousin whom I played magic a lot with almost 10 years ago.. said he doesn't like to use fetchlands.. fast forward to the present.. we met again, I lent him some of my cards. He played a deck with fetches. Another time, one of my Modern friends who used to play with evolving wilds because he was on a budget... then he saved up money to buy tarns, and of course he used those tarns the next time we played. People will build with what they have.
About the reserved list... actually cashed in already on all reserved list cards that I own. Sold 2 plateau, 2 taiga, and 1 savannah last year to various people. Well, thank you Reserved list... for giving me additional Christmas money for 2017. @_@
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The reserved list was created because a handful of collectors threw a hissy fit and WotC panicked. Most of the advocates for the reserved list have never played the game or have not played the game for years. Non-players should have zero say in whether or not a card can and should be reprinted. And lets not mince words here, Vintage and Legacy are slowly dying as formats because of the Reserved list, and that is a tragedy.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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Responding to the bold highlighted sentence:
I have been 100% behind this sentiment in the past - but I have hope now that the RL won't matter as much since seeing Battlebond - and I say the following with hope. I've made pleas to WoTC in the past and have seen the needed change I wanted, but not yet applied as expansively as I would desire.. There is legitimate pretext now for a better future in Vintage and Legacy.. A year ago I urged WoTC to expand the concept of format-bypassing cards like what we see with the 56 new cards per year in the Commander products.
I expressed that expanding the concept of format-bypassing cards can directly breathe life into every eternal format and is the necessary future for these formats. I made this proposition here: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/781415-the-rule-of-56-originals-in-commander-is-a
Since seeing WoTC take and expand on this concept seen in Commander and using it in another product, Battlebond, I believe there is reasonable hope to see the format-bypassing concept expanded upon - which is just about the best alternative to removing the RL that I can think of for injecting new content and focus on all of the eternal formats. We just have to cross our fingers that WoTC is serious about using this concept in more than just casual format-designed products.
I have hope that the next equivalent to the Masters series may use this concept for including format-bypassing cards - which would also better justify the $10 per pack price tag much more than what we currently get for such a steep price.
Take what you want from my thoughts, but I do have reasons that I think are justifiable to see a better future for eternal formats without needing to do anything to the RL.
EDIT: Also, I foresee WoTC justifying inaction on the RL if they whole-heartedly endorse the concept of format-bypassing cards in Eternal format products.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
Wizards made a promise, and I do not think under any circumstances they should break that promise, especially one as deeply embedded as the RL.
The trust Wizards has is a vital component of the market. MTG is not like bicycle playing cards. They need the faith of the secondary market to sell cardboard for 90 dollars a box. Nobody buys cardboard for 90 bucks a box for a worthless box and does it over and over again.
So here's the solution(s).
1. Wizards creates a format where they have full authority to reprint whatever they want. Modern and Standard.
2. Wizards may reprint cards "close enough" that does not count as an official reprint. ex. Twincast, Fork, and Reverberate.
3. Wizards can supercede RL cards. We all know anti-RL people dont care about getting their copies of Yare. I dont hear any of you crying that you can't find copies of Serra Aviary, Delif's Cubes, or Conch Horns, or demanding more cards with Cumulative upkeeps.
4. Wizards "reprints" online.
5. Wizards creates new formats.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
It doesn't do a very good job of it.
As someone who's recently bought into Legacy, I have a full playset of duals, LEDs, and City of Traitors, and I am still 100% on board with the abolishing of the Reserved List. It really just needs to go.
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The issue I see with Magic the Gathering is that if someone wants to play competitively, they might as well pick up another trading card game. Most other TCGs have it so that someone can build and play on a tournament level for 60-100 usd, often with good prize support.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What's affordable?
You can play standard (competitive) for $200-$400. You get to play that deck until rotation hits, and you have to buy a new one. Over, and over, and over.
You can play Modern (competitive) for $400-$1800 (Jund) while most decks are around $1000. Outside of some pretty poor choices, you get to play that deck 'forever'.
You can play Legacy, the first to be hit by the Reserve List issues, for what looks like $1200 (Death and Taxes, Mono White) to $6000+ in the case of decks that have Blue Dual Lands in them.
$6000 vs $1800, is...quite a range of 'affordable'.
(Vintage decks btw are in the $30,000.00 range...)
Modern is affordable, its in fact the most affordable competitive format.
Spirits
I can play any other TCG or online game competitively in the 60-100 dollar range, with the upper range being 150 dollars. Wizards of the Coast is literally the only company maintaining a game with such a high competitive price point that peoples eyes roll over. At least with Games Workshop and Warhammer you get something to display on a freaking shelf.
For the price of a bloody standard deck I can afford an eternally playable deck in games like Buddyfight, Force of Will, the Pokemon TCG, Hearthstone (which they broke horribly with a particular battlecry mechanic...), etc. That's not even the tip of the iceberg, either. The card quality has been going downhill since RTR, with the second wave print runs having noticeably different feel. Then we started seeing more and more mistakes and misprints in later sets like BFZ, until we got to the curling happening in Amonkhet.
And the reason for all of this? The company got saddled into a bad position. They have the RL promise causing issues, the "support the LGS" crowd pushing the responsibility of keeping small stores alive onto the shoulders of Wizards of the Coast, letting other TCG companies like Konami ride on Wizards back, and setting unreasonable restrictions on reprinting older mechanics that people use. Can anyone really blame them for just tossing their arms up and just not caring a whole lot about undoing the RL, for example? That kind of stuff just drains the passion out of making a game and turns it into being about making a profit.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Agreed on the affordability of Modern. I was able to build several tier 2 and tier 3 decks complete with sideboards.. that are good enough for FNM each week.
While other TCG's might be cheaper.. there's just something that MTG did right that keeps me coming back to the game.. even if the FNM store near my house closed, there's always people I can play magic with.. my brother, 4 cousins, 2 competitive Modern friends, and even my cosplayer friend Karen enjoy playing this game. If I switched to something like Pokemon, there's no one for me to play with.
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It isn't WOTC's fault that there are people who are, in my opinion, so crazy they will pay $100 for a copy of Engineered Explosives that could be announced for a reprint next week. The secondary market is just people offering cards for prices and other people willing to pay that price. If nobody bought an Underground Sea for six months that price would fall.
If the Reserved list would be removed and a reprint happens.. prices would drop right away. What happened to Karakas and Imperial Recruiter... prices dropped when they got reprinted, although the cards are still a bit expensive even with the price drop.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
TCGPlayer has three sellers listing LP or NM copies of the original fifth dawn printing before it hits $99.99. Again, though, prices won't fall as long as people keep buying. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the RL abolished. It just won't happen, so I basically gave up on playing with those cards.
TCGs use the desirability of a resource to drive the distribution of other resources. However, they basically bundle a lot of bulk like scrapwood and less needed resources like scrap iron in with the gold. In addition, they don't promise you even get the gold resource with a direct purchase. This has led to a secondary industry that filters the mass resource purchases and allows direct purchase of the gold.
This secondary industry is suffering the same issues as recycling centers. They end up with masses of bulk no one needs and not enough of the resources buyers actually request.
Wizards tcg model dictates they can not make old, desired resources more common. Thus the issue of supply can never be addressed.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I checked too at SCG. Explosives is indeed 100$ card. Guess I lost out on making more profit out of the explosives I got... was restless after WoTC started releasing Masters sets one after another, and then the core set revival. So I sold it the first person who offered 50$, which was it's SCG price some months ago.
About the reserved list. Well, my opinion is just plain biased because I used to own some of the original duals.. kept them for almost 10 years, then made money selling them just last year. And to be honest, I lost a friend for years because I won't sell him the duals.. someone on facebook gave me a higher offer and I sold the two taiga and two plateau to those people instead of my friend. Now, I don't have anymore duals.. and have no more plans coming back to Legacy as Modern is a better environment. I do agree that the Reserved list has to go... for Legacy to have a chance of surviving longer.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
So? There are million things I can do that are cheaper than Magic, though to be fair I am now in the position for the first time since Twin, that I spend $10-$20 on some singles with each set, and I'm good to go. Thats my 'rotation cost' as a pure Modern player. Sets are what, every 3 Months? Wow, what an expensive hobby.
Buddyfight? Force of Will? (NSFW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzoMSgBzjsI
As to Hearthstone, Wizards is idiotic for trying to fight Blizz in the digital space. They wont win that one.
The card quality, is a wait and see for me. Dom, Battlebond, and M19 are all fine to me, but lets not move the goal posts.
Is Magic affordable? Outside the reserve list formats, yes.
Spirits
Well, the game is affordable to specific groups based on factors outside of market value. There is format, available disposable income and long term goals, if they compete in tournaments and can trade to offset costs, etc.
In the raw dollar form assuming someone has nothing and wants a tier 1 modern deck, the game demands a significant up front cost and offers little flexibility and alternative use compared to other entertainment avenues.
I mean, there are people who buy sports cars and think its affordable. It's the same here at mtg salvation. It doesn't mean it is to most people interested in the game.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Bingo, on the bold parts.
Storm and Burn are competitive, Tier 1 strategies, and they are in that 400-500 range and will last for the life of the entire format. You get 2 Standard decks for that price, and thats not even counting other competitive (tier 1 is moving the goal posts again) more rogue decks that are cheaper still.
There is enough demand for Modern cards, that staples are getting excessively expensive, yet still sell. To ME that means that no, most people interested are not priced out, we just grumble about it.
Spirits