Fog Bank does feel a little out of place in a blue scheme, yet does fit into the "illusion" mold. I don't know why they would make it a wall AND give it defender...
Because all walls have defender now. The creature subtype wall no longer carries a "cannot attack" rider; that bit was moved into the defender ability.
Because all walls have defender now. The creature subtype wall no longer carries a "cannot attack" rider; that bit was moved into the defender ability.
Fair enough I suppose. How many people play walls anyways? haha
That fog bank is a pretty solid card though, I could do to have a couple of them in my b/u lol
you're right but at the same time beast within doesn't actually remove a creature. i mean yes, it destroys a creature, but replacing it with a 3/3 green beast is no different than a card that turns creatures into 3/3 green beasts. i think most people would find that mechanic to be green.
Beast Within can deal effectively with anything that does not have hexproof, that's what MaRo does not like: it's an unconditional permanent removal in green. New Phyrixia was a colour bleeding set sure but that doesn't mean that everything goes: polymorphing is Blue's share of the colour pie and Beast Within is an overpowered polymorph in green; it's too much.
The 3/3 beast obtained afterwards does not matter because let's be honest, if I destroy your awesome creature/enchantment/land/artifact that has a bunch of abilities, you getting a vanilla 3/3 isn't going to be worrisome.
Beast Within was just too damn good to be in green: if it only targeted a specific type of permanent then it would be a much better design.
Going to M12 or M11 (or M10 or Xth or 8th or 7th or 6th or 5th or 4th or 3rd or A/B/U), Birds of Paradise is ridiculously out of color just for having flying. Outside of Birds of Paradise, the last set to have a mono-green flyer was Planar Chaos.
As a matter of fact, the first and second creature with fight are green, namely Tracker from The Dark and Gargantuan Gorilla from Alliance. Green had the ability to remove flyers directly, and other creatures indirectly though combat, and fight is the epitome of green removal.
My only gripe with this (because i agree with you on everything else) is that people regularly say "Desert Twister is too old to count!" and so if that is the argument, alliances and the dark are certainly older than masques.
Beast Within can deal effectively with anything that does not have hexproof, that's what MaRo does not like: it's an unconditional permanent removal in green. New Phyrixia was a colour bleeding set sure but that doesn't mean that everything goes: polymorphing is Blue's share of the colour pie and Beast Within is an overpowered polymorph in green; it's too much.
The 3/3 beast obtained afterwards does not matter because let's be honest, if I destroy your awesome creature/enchantment/land/artifact that has a bunch of abilities, you getting a vanilla 3/3 isn't going to be worrisome.
You're right, but getting a vanilla 3/3 is still significantly better than not having anything. In fact, i would venture that there are a large number of cases where giving them a 3/3 green beast would cost you the game. Creature modification isn't always that great. The reason beast is good is because it can hit everything whereas Pongify can only hit creatures.
It's almost strictly worse than Lignify when used against creatures.
Going to M12 or M11 (or M10 or Xth or 8th or 7th or 6th or 5th or 4th or 3rd or A/B/U), Birds of Paradise is ridiculously out of color just for having flying.
Can't argue with you there. Birds is just such an iconic card though, and since it's a mere 0/1, I think they've decided that it's allowed to be an exception.
plus it's not in a core set which it's what MaRo referred to
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Going to M12 or M11 (or M10 or Xth or 8th or 7th or 6th or 5th or 4th or 3rd or A/B/U), Birds of Paradise is ridiculously out of color just for having flying. Outside of Birds of Paradise, the last set to have a mono-green flyer was Planar Chaos.
But Itty-bitty fliers are historically part of Green's color pie; Green just isn't supposed to get big fliers.
That said, the overall theme of Green is efficient creatures and ramp. Mechanically, big Green creatures having flying wouldn't change Green's gameplay much at all. It'd be a violation of the Flavor color wheel, not the Mechanical color wheel.
I really like what they're doing to the color wheel. Threaten-effects are common in Red now, as are looting effects, particularly Discard-then-Draw looting effects. I love the expansion of Red's abilities those two things represents.
Green getting haste, hexproof, creature-based card draw and now Fight-removal has been mechanical God-sends. Green's growing up from the "stupid newb color with no answer to control" that it has been historically.
Blue is getting stripped of its historical power, I'd argue rightfully-so, but it still has a very big chunk of the flavor color pie. It just doesn't have half the color pie like it originally had. It isn't getting hosed on a color pie basis, it's getting nailed on an "overall power level" basis.
Flavorfully, black has been the color that has lost the most, flavorfully and mechanically. Black's design motto should be "can do anything, but must pay dearly for it". In other words, black should have tons of power, but with great power should come great downsides. Wizards stopped putting downsides on cards a while ago, and black has suffered since. Black has gotten hyper-efficient Vampires to make it competitive and has been given Rogues and Exalted as a way to just make it relevant. Mechanically, they're turning it into "white-with-discard-based-control", because they think cards with downsides turn off new players, which is sick. New players have never understood what made the great black decks great, it used to be the "Dark Side", now its just mediocre.
White is turning into the new blue. Hyper-efficient creatures that rival or beat Green's, the most tribal support, the best removal of almost everything, taxing effects, THE premier color for "hate bears" and creature-based control, self-bounce, direct damage to creatures, combat tricks that also rival green, best sweepers, et cetera... All it needs is a form of card advantage and it'd have everything. I expect White's limits to be explored and solidified soon.
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
Going to M12 or M11 (or M10 or Xth or 8th or 7th or 6th or 5th or 4th or 3rd or A/B/U), Birds of Paradise is ridiculously out of color just for having flying. Outside of Birds of Paradise, the last set to have a mono-green flyer was Planar Chaos.
Green has more 0/1 fliers for 1 mana than any other color (as of the last time I saw the argument you are making, a few months back).
EDIT:
Wait, nope. Black has 4, green has 2, white, blue, and red each have 1.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Vampire nighthawk feels very black and vampire-y to me, and black has often gotten aggressively costed creatures that have a heavy black requirement (see phyrexian obliterator)
Angelic arbiter feels completely white. See orim's chant, silence, rule of law
Benalish veteran is clearly an homage to infantry veteran, and bonuses when attacking certainly fall within white's color pie (see http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&color=+[W]&text=+[whenever]+[attacks]+[+] )
For prowler the exalted is fine (as it got moved to black in m13, and it makes sense there with black's focus on the one as opposed to the many), but I agree haste is odd.
Elderscale wurm is a weird one, but mythics are kind of allowed to break the color pie. Would have made more color pie sense as a simple lifegain though, I agree (like "at the beginning of your end step, gain 7 life) since that is easily green
Entangling vines is just a continuation of the snakes from Kamigawa
Excommunicate says hello to oust and condemn
Gem is colorless, and is little different than Armillary Sphere
Three of those represent exactly what Green card draw is. Green is allowed to draw cards related to the power of creatures it has in play, which is actually a significant drawback compared to Blue's unconditional ability to draw cards.
Harmonize is the weird one but it's from Planar Chaos so it doesn't really count, and at the time it was printed I'm not sure they had the details hammered out of how Green card draw was going to work yet, only that it was definitely going to be a thing.
Green is the number 2 color for card draw, greens card draw is restricted in that it has to be done through or involving creatures. Harmonize is the exception because it was from planar chaos and a timeshifted version of Concentrate
Green is the number 2 color for card draw, greens card draw is restricted in that it has to be done through or involving creatures. Harmonize is the exception because it was from planar chaos and a timeshifted version of Concentrate
I'd argue that with you... Black is the #2 option for card draw... Green is killer at mana acceleration, I will never deny it that. But overall, Black has always had the best tutors, and Sign in Blood remains an iconic black card to this very day.
Blue is arguably getting weaker, WotC has stopped giving Black Carnophages, now giving us Diregraf Ghoul and card draw is getting better in Black (Harrowing Journey, Sign In Blood, Underworld Connections, Bloodgift Demon)
I like how they are shaping Black giving it more control elements (Removal, Discard, CA) while giving it more efficient creatures
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Green is the number 2 color for card draw, greens card draw is restricted in that it has to be done through or involving creatures. Harmonize is the exception because it was from planar chaos and a timeshifted version of Concentrate
Right but that is not iconic for green in any way. It is really a recent thing. I mean Sylvan Library took almost half of your starting life total for a couple of extra cards. Now it's like do-dee-do-do-do think I'll draw 6. Crazy.
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There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't.
Because all walls have defender now. The creature subtype wall no longer carries a "cannot attack" rider; that bit was moved into the defender ability.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Fair enough I suppose. How many people play walls anyways? haha
That fog bank is a pretty solid card though, I could do to have a couple of them in my b/u lol
Bouncing your own stuff is something White does all the time. Blinking Spirit, Narrow Escape.
Beast Within can deal effectively with anything that does not have hexproof, that's what MaRo does not like: it's an unconditional permanent removal in green. New Phyrixia was a colour bleeding set sure but that doesn't mean that everything goes: polymorphing is Blue's share of the colour pie and Beast Within is an overpowered polymorph in green; it's too much.
The 3/3 beast obtained afterwards does not matter because let's be honest, if I destroy your awesome creature/enchantment/land/artifact that has a bunch of abilities, you getting a vanilla 3/3 isn't going to be worrisome.
Beast Within was just too damn good to be in green: if it only targeted a specific type of permanent then it would be a much better design.
My only gripe with this (because i agree with you on everything else) is that people regularly say "Desert Twister is too old to count!" and so if that is the argument, alliances and the dark are certainly older than masques.
You're right, but getting a vanilla 3/3 is still significantly better than not having anything. In fact, i would venture that there are a large number of cases where giving them a 3/3 green beast would cost you the game. Creature modification isn't always that great. The reason beast is good is because it can hit everything whereas Pongify can only hit creatures.
It's almost strictly worse than Lignify when used against creatures.
Can't argue with you there. Birds is just such an iconic card though, and since it's a mere 0/1, I think they've decided that it's allowed to be an exception.
Mutagenic Growth is on target for Green.
Gut Shot is on target for Red.
It's the "mechanic" of the Phyrexian Mana blurring lines of flexibility and Casting Costs allowing cards to be played in off-color decks.
plus it's not in a core set which it's what MaRo referred to
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But Itty-bitty fliers are historically part of Green's color pie; Green just isn't supposed to get big fliers.
And, of course, Birds of Paradise.
That said, the overall theme of Green is efficient creatures and ramp. Mechanically, big Green creatures having flying wouldn't change Green's gameplay much at all. It'd be a violation of the Flavor color wheel, not the Mechanical color wheel.
I really like what they're doing to the color wheel. Threaten-effects are common in Red now, as are looting effects, particularly Discard-then-Draw looting effects. I love the expansion of Red's abilities those two things represents.
Green getting haste, hexproof, creature-based card draw and now Fight-removal has been mechanical God-sends. Green's growing up from the "stupid newb color with no answer to control" that it has been historically.
Blue is getting stripped of its historical power, I'd argue rightfully-so, but it still has a very big chunk of the flavor color pie. It just doesn't have half the color pie like it originally had. It isn't getting hosed on a color pie basis, it's getting nailed on an "overall power level" basis.
Flavorfully, black has been the color that has lost the most, flavorfully and mechanically. Black's design motto should be "can do anything, but must pay dearly for it". In other words, black should have tons of power, but with great power should come great downsides. Wizards stopped putting downsides on cards a while ago, and black has suffered since. Black has gotten hyper-efficient Vampires to make it competitive and has been given Rogues and Exalted as a way to just make it relevant. Mechanically, they're turning it into "white-with-discard-based-control", because they think cards with downsides turn off new players, which is sick. New players have never understood what made the great black decks great, it used to be the "Dark Side", now its just mediocre.
White is turning into the new blue. Hyper-efficient creatures that rival or beat Green's, the most tribal support, the best removal of almost everything, taxing effects, THE premier color for "hate bears" and creature-based control, self-bounce, direct damage to creatures, combat tricks that also rival green, best sweepers, et cetera... All it needs is a form of card advantage and it'd have everything. I expect White's limits to be explored and solidified soon.
I like baby fowl.
Green has more 0/1 fliers for 1 mana than any other color (as of the last time I saw the argument you are making, a few months back).
EDIT:
Wait, nope. Black has 4, green has 2, white, blue, and red each have 1.
Vampire nighthawk feels very black and vampire-y to me, and black has often gotten aggressively costed creatures that have a heavy black requirement (see phyrexian obliterator)
Angelic arbiter feels completely white. See orim's chant, silence, rule of law
Benalish veteran is clearly an homage to infantry veteran, and bonuses when attacking certainly fall within white's color pie (see http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&color=+[W]&text=+[whenever]+[attacks]+[+] )
For prowler the exalted is fine (as it got moved to black in m13, and it makes sense there with black's focus on the one as opposed to the many), but I agree haste is odd.
Elderscale wurm is a weird one, but mythics are kind of allowed to break the color pie. Would have made more color pie sense as a simple lifegain though, I agree (like "at the beginning of your end step, gain 7 life) since that is easily green
Entangling vines is just a continuation of the snakes from Kamigawa
Excommunicate says hello to oust and condemn
Gem is colorless, and is little different than Armillary Sphere
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[+1] Sit on Nicol Bolas
[+0] Wait for him to beg for mercy, rule the multiverse.
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Three of those represent exactly what Green card draw is. Green is allowed to draw cards related to the power of creatures it has in play, which is actually a significant drawback compared to Blue's unconditional ability to draw cards.
Harmonize is the weird one but it's from Planar Chaos so it doesn't really count, and at the time it was printed I'm not sure they had the details hammered out of how Green card draw was going to work yet, only that it was definitely going to be a thing.
Green is the number 2 color for card draw, greens card draw is restricted in that it has to be done through or involving creatures. Harmonize is the exception because it was from planar chaos and a timeshifted version of Concentrate
Way to completely miss the point
I'd argue that with you... Black is the #2 option for card draw... Green is killer at mana acceleration, I will never deny it that. But overall, Black has always had the best tutors, and Sign in Blood remains an iconic black card to this very day.
I like how they are shaping Black giving it more control elements (Removal, Discard, CA) while giving it more efficient creatures
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Right but that is not iconic for green in any way. It is really a recent thing. I mean Sylvan Library took almost half of your starting life total for a couple of extra cards. Now it's like do-dee-do-do-do think I'll draw 6. Crazy.
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[+0] Wait for him to beg for mercy, rule the multiverse.
[-7] Not necessary, she is the ultimate.
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