The lack of reminder text on dies shows how this change doesn't require a long time of reminder text to affect the current status.
I would go with that. "When ~ is summoned" vs "When ~ enters the battlefield"
It's half the text, 11 characters to replace 22 characters (including spaces). And it sounds about a billion times better than "enters the battlefield"
Saurus hit the nail on the head though. Dies is a vesy specific event. It must go to the graveyard from the battlefield. As well, it hits a major flavor note which drives it home.
Enters the battlefield is generally worded because it covers many bases. As mentioned, the creature can enter by being flickered, reanimated, put into play or cast legitimately. I'm hard pressed to find a word that meets all notes while maintaining flavor.
I don;t see the difficulty. "Is summoned" means a creature enters the battlefield.
Arrive was my first thought. It has the benefit of working with non-creature permanents and reading pretty naturally.
"When Thragtusk arrives, gain 5 life."
"When Oblivion Ring arrives, exile target nonland permanent."
Alternately, simply shortening the current phrase to "enters" could work, but I feel like it's a little muddier, because things can 'enter' zones other than the battlefield. It also has the same issue as "unblockable" had; it doesn't really save much word space.
"When Thragtusk enters, gain 5 life."
"When Oblivion Ring enters, exile target nonland permanent."
I think keywording it would just make it more difficult to understand for new players. As it is, it's only a few words that are perfectly clear in their meaning (and clearly differentiate this ability from "when you cast" abilities), and it serves as a handy reminder for newer players that there's a trigger ("when/whenever/at").
Not at all, as the ability word would be it's own triggered ability, and thus prevented by Torpor Orb. And Torpor Orb would continue to shut down third-party triggers too.
Furthermore, I think this thread is confusing a "keyword" (which always acts predictably. Bushido, Flying, Haste) with an "ability word" which has different outcomes. (Sweep, Battalion, Morbid)
From the Comprehensive Rules
207.2c An ability word appears in italics at the beginning of some abilities on cards. Ability words are similar to keywords in that they tie together cards that have similar functionality, but they have no special rules meaning and no individual entries in the Comprehensive Rules. The ability words are channel, chroma, domain, fateful hour, grandeur, hellbent, imprint, join forces, kinship, landfall, metalcraft, morbid, radiance, sweep, and threshold.
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What's the big deal? You could have played multiple Righteous Avengers for years now.
Funny, I thought of that right when I clicked "Last post".
Birth doesn't make much sense, given the flavor of the game. Summon does, since you're literally summoning or creating something out the Interplanar Aether.
However, I think "When ~ enters the battlefield..." is just fine. You'd only cut out one word, going to "When ~ is summoned..." and then it just starts sounding like Yugioh.
Can we take a moment to remind you that creature cards were originally called summon cards? Magic predates yugioh.
Furthermore, I think this thread is confusing a "keyword" (which always acts predictably. Bushido, Flying, Haste) with an "ability word" which has different outcomes. (Sweep, Battalion, Morbid)
I think the thread is confusing a "keyword" with "vocabulary".
Dies is not a keyword or an ability word, its just a word. Similarly, this would just change the way things are templated without doing anything.
Too many keywords make the cards less cluttered for veterans but increases learning curve for noobs, we need to keep the noobs engaged. I say that with nothing but extreme love for noobs, I am not using it as a pejorative.
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I don't buy not being able to find the proper word is what's holding it back from becoming a keyword.
EDIT: Furthermore, the keyword shouldn't have any impact on flickering, reanimated or cheat/cast. The same action happens no matter how its worded.
Just stating one of a few reasons why keywording it would be difficult, I realize it's far from the top of the heap. And it should when the word needs to evoke the sense, and be intuitive to grasp that it occurs in any of those situations. Dies refers to one event. From battlefield to graveyard. ETB has many ways it occurs, what, four ways that were quickly recognized? There's no one word that can get you the effect you need without muddying what that effect is.
Maro answered this today, but without context, his post just adds more questions, for me, haha.
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I think the thread is confusing a "keyword" with "vocabulary".
Dies is not a keyword or an ability word, its just a word. Similarly, this would just change the way things are templated without doing anything.
Dies is a "keyword action"; it's not "just a word". Nothing with specific rules meaning ("dies" meaning "put into a graveyard from the battlefield") is just plain English.
Other keyword actions are:
activate
attach
cast
clash
counter
destroy
detain
discard
exchange
exile
fateseal
fight
play
populate
proliferate
regenerate
reveal
sacrifice
scry
search
shuffle
tap
transform
untap
The lack of reminder text on dies shows how this change doesn't require a long time of reminder text to affect the current status.
Sure, but only if I can refer to Malfegor as Red-Eyes Black Dragon.
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I don't see why it needs to be. It could only be an ability word. And it would only add MORE text. Its only four words and the cardname to be saved, in exchange for adding a bunch of reminder text to every card for a loooong time. Plus, this effect is used on a ton of cards, and once it loses reminder text, its just a brand new word for new players to remember - all for the sake of four words.
Advent - Destroy target nonblack creature (when this creature enters the battlefield, destroy target nonblack creature)
Or
When Dakmor Lancer enters the battlefield, destroy target nonblack creature.
This. It'd probably end up as an ability word anyway, so it's totally pointless. Something like:
Advent — When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher.
Ending — When Faceless Butcher leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield.
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Summon would be more for "When you cast [CARD NAME] something happens" rather than ETB.
I don't think there is a proper way to word it, not effectively. The only word I can think of is "arrive" and that's not nearly flavorful enough to be used.
After looking at the problem some more, it would probably have to be something simple like "Appears" and "Disappears" to represent entering/leaving the battlefield. It's a simple word to avoid verbosity, it's easily recognizable, and it doesn't really differentiate between effects that put them on the battlefield and casting the card from your hand and having it resolve.
Keywords come with intrinsic costs and shouldn't be used unless necessary. Even "dies" causes some confusion because people (quite reasonably) believe that a creature dies when it gets Annihilating Fired, or that undying creatures don't.
In this case, there is just no reason to use a keyword. So why should there be one?
Honestly, I'd be happy if they just stopped calling it the "battlefield" and just went with "the field"
Man those were the days. I miss the non-flavored/vampired magic.
For those people that said birth, there is no way you can go with this. Pretty sure a lot of people would not be ok with people being able to stifle a birth trigger.
My personal preference would to call it "boom" or "boom boom"
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I think it should be given the keyword treatment. Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft uses the keyword "Battlecry" for "enters the battlefield" effects. I'm sure we can find an appropriate, differentiating replacement. The extra reminder text for a while would be worth it.
I would go with that. "When ~ is summoned" vs "When ~ enters the battlefield"
It's half the text, 11 characters to replace 22 characters (including spaces). And it sounds about a billion times better than "enters the battlefield"
I don;t see the difficulty. "Is summoned" means a creature enters the battlefield.
"When Thragtusk arrives, gain 5 life."
"When Oblivion Ring arrives, exile target nonland permanent."
Alternately, simply shortening the current phrase to "enters" could work, but I feel like it's a little muddier, because things can 'enter' zones other than the battlefield. It also has the same issue as "unblockable" had; it doesn't really save much word space.
"When Thragtusk enters, gain 5 life."
"When Oblivion Ring enters, exile target nonland permanent."
Not at all, as the ability word would be it's own triggered ability, and thus prevented by Torpor Orb. And Torpor Orb would continue to shut down third-party triggers too.
Furthermore, I think this thread is confusing a "keyword" (which always acts predictably. Bushido, Flying, Haste) with an "ability word" which has different outcomes. (Sweep, Battalion, Morbid)
Can we take a moment to remind you that creature cards were originally called summon cards? Magic predates yugioh.
I think the thread is confusing a "keyword" with "vocabulary".
Dies is not a keyword or an ability word, its just a word. Similarly, this would just change the way things are templated without doing anything.
This is what I have been using on my custom cards for ages. Works in every scenario.
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Just stating one of a few reasons why keywording it would be difficult, I realize it's far from the top of the heap. And it should when the word needs to evoke the sense, and be intuitive to grasp that it occurs in any of those situations. Dies refers to one event. From battlefield to graveyard. ETB has many ways it occurs, what, four ways that were quickly recognized? There's no one word that can get you the effect you need without muddying what that effect is.
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Maro answered this today, but without context, his post just adds more questions, for me, haha.
Other keyword actions are:
activate
attach
cast
clash
counter
destroy
detain
discard
exchange
exile
fateseal
fight
play
populate
proliferate
regenerate
reveal
sacrifice
scry
search
shuffle
tap
transform
untap
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Sure, but only if I can refer to Malfegor as Red-Eyes Black Dragon.
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This. It'd probably end up as an ability word anyway, so it's totally pointless. Something like:
Advent — When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher.
Ending — When Faceless Butcher leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield.
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I don't think there is a proper way to word it, not effectively. The only word I can think of is "arrive" and that's not nearly flavorful enough to be used.
In this case, there is just no reason to use a keyword. So why should there be one?
Man those were the days. I miss the non-flavored/vampired magic.
For those people that said birth, there is no way you can go with this. Pretty sure a lot of people would not be ok with people being able to stifle a birth trigger.
My personal preference would to call it "boom" or "boom boom"
Just imagine:
Thragtusk
Boom Boom - You gain 5 Life.
Kabam - You get a 3/3 best token.
Explosive keywords would be sweet.
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