You shouldn't be afraid of giving penalties when they are required. I DQed two players in 7 years of judging. None were for outside assistance, but outside assistance is considered a serious offense (short of physical aggression and actual cheating). Non-players should keep themselves out of the game.
Was the penalty for Outside Assistance a DQ at one point?
Judges shouldn't give a DQ for outside assistance, as the penalty provided for in the IPG is currently a Match Loss (which can be applied to the spectator as appropriate, and can also be applied to the next round if the individual in question has already finished the current round.) If this is at Regular, the IPG isn't in effect, but this definitely falls under the auspices of "General Unwanted Behavior" [Note that "Asking for, or providing, strategy advice during a tournament match or booster draft" is explicitly listed in this section] that comes with a stern talking-to and possibility for a game loss if the behavior continues.
But yes, anyone not in a match should not interfere, except to ask to stop the match and call a judge if something seems amiss.
On topic: I would absolutely accept the concession and then point out where the win was. You don't do them any favors by not making them find and play out the win, and you teach them about good tactics - something that will benefit them greatly if they go on to Competitive events where those mistakes will cost games and matches, and players are more cutthroat and will not allow for take-backs.
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Former Level 2 Judge (Retired / Renounced)
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
I accept the win and teach him what he did wrong. The jerk thing to do would be to take the win and tell him nothing.
If they're very new, though, you kind of have to help them. I was playing someone yesterday and they Tragic Slip before combat damage had been dealt. I could have shrugged and said, "Ok, -1/-1, what now" but instead I pointed out his mistake and let him have the morbid Tragic Slip. He needed to wait until damage resolved and my dudes had dealt damage and his dudes had regenerated. Looking back, I probably should have been a rules lawyer and made the lesson stick. I'm not sure he thought I was being all that nice, and in fact probably thought I was a douche for pointing out his mistake.
the boundaries of where I can kick spectators out of saying things in games I'm playing.
I think you're talking about serious play - and enviroment with a prize and a judge. In this kind of situation, spectators should say NOTHING about the game.
In a friendly game, without any prize or consequence, I would have told my friend about his mistake before so he could enjoy the win. But even if a single booster was in line I'd do what you did.
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Alea iacta est
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
Yeah that's an awfully awkward situation. I think you made the right call. Your opponent learned something important regardless of the fact that they lose the game. I imagine you weren't condescending with your explanation and it could have led to a result of him feeling insulted that you played the game for him by telling him how to win the game.
I was talking with some friends last night and they told me a story of a pretty strange judge call (if someone could find the article that'd be great as I'm not 100% sure on the details and it's like a 3rd hand story deal).
Middle of a game a player has out Garruk Wildspeaker goes to use his +1 to Untap 2 Lands but only has 1 Land untapped. That player doesn't realize he can just tap a land in response and have floating mana or even just use it on a tapped land. That player calls a judge and says hey what can I do I only have 1 untapped land. The judge can't give him strategic advice and just tells him that to activate an ability with targets he has to choose the relevant number of targets. The player asks basically the same question in which they get the same reply. The opponent decides to say "hey you can target one of my lands". The judge then disqualified the opponent for outside assistance. This was a competitive event of some type.
I'd say that it doesn't qualify as giving strategic advice to tell the guy that it is legal to target any lands regardless of whether or not they're tapped.
As a game, some of us also consider it a test of character and sportsmanship. And some of us value those things than tournamanet winnings. Just because you value the dollar over everything else doesn't mean everyone else does.
Some us also consider winning due to an opponent forgetting a trigger as not winning due to our skill. If I'm going to win, I want to win on my own merits. Not benefit from someone else forgetting a trigger.
That's not the "best" way to handle it, it's the way you chose to handle it. I consider what you did the worst way to handle it, because I value friendly play and sportsmanship over taking advantage of people mistakes.
I've found that the greater magic community very much has a Playing To Win mentality, and i whole-heartedly support that.
You took the win and kindly told the guy what his play error was, and he took it well. You sound like a model player, honestly.
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UUU Talrand, Sky Summoner // (W/U)(W/U)(W/U) Grand Arbiter Augustin IV // RRR Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker // (R/G)(R/G)(R/G) Wort, the Raidmother // URG Riku of Two Reflections // RWU Ruhan of the Fomori
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This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
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Was the penalty for Outside Assistance a DQ at one point?
Judges shouldn't give a DQ for outside assistance, as the penalty provided for in the IPG is currently a Match Loss (which can be applied to the spectator as appropriate, and can also be applied to the next round if the individual in question has already finished the current round.) If this is at Regular, the IPG isn't in effect, but this definitely falls under the auspices of "General Unwanted Behavior" [Note that "Asking for, or providing, strategy advice during a tournament match or booster draft" is explicitly listed in this section] that comes with a stern talking-to and possibility for a game loss if the behavior continues.
But yes, anyone not in a match should not interfere, except to ask to stop the match and call a judge if something seems amiss.
On topic: I would absolutely accept the concession and then point out where the win was. You don't do them any favors by not making them find and play out the win, and you teach them about good tactics - something that will benefit them greatly if they go on to Competitive events where those mistakes will cost games and matches, and players are more cutthroat and will not allow for take-backs.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
If they're very new, though, you kind of have to help them. I was playing someone yesterday and they Tragic Slip before combat damage had been dealt. I could have shrugged and said, "Ok, -1/-1, what now" but instead I pointed out his mistake and let him have the morbid Tragic Slip. He needed to wait until damage resolved and my dudes had dealt damage and his dudes had regenerated. Looking back, I probably should have been a rules lawyer and made the lesson stick. I'm not sure he thought I was being all that nice, and in fact probably thought I was a douche for pointing out his mistake.
EDH decks:
Spellslinging Riku, Omnath, Locus of Facebeating, Soraya the Falconer, Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
I think you're talking about serious play - and enviroment with a prize and a judge. In this kind of situation, spectators should say NOTHING about the game.
In a friendly game, without any prize or consequence, I would have told my friend about his mistake before so he could enjoy the win. But even if a single booster was in line I'd do what you did.
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
I'd say that it doesn't qualify as giving strategic advice to tell the guy that it is legal to target any lands regardless of whether or not they're tapped.
I've found that the greater magic community very much has a Playing To Win mentality, and i whole-heartedly support that.