You, as a result of not reporting the store, are also screwing over the players.
Daut is obviously in a tough position. he's trying to make positive changes but doesn't want to end up losing his community. There is often an abominably large cost for standing up and doing what's right. I think we should cut him some slack.
Furthermore, I'm convinced that he decided to do the right thing.
Hang in there Daut Hopefully things will change soon.
Okay, here's such a simple solution to this problem I don't even know why I didn't think of it sooner.
Daut, hire a ringer to come into the store to play FNM Magic. Offer to give him cards if you have to. He may not even be a Magic player. Doesn't matter. Give him a deck and before he goes in, give him a script to memorize.
Essentially, he will walk into the store, tell the owner he's here for FNM. He registers, starts to play and sees people are playing "non standard decks". He goes up to the store owner and complains and tells the owner he's going to report him for running a non legal FNM.
Naturally, he will need to get himself a DCI number before he goes there so it doesn't look suspicious.
Do it right and nobody will ever suspect it was you. Problem solved.
Damn, I watched too much Mission Impossible growing up.
I feel like some of you don't understand the difference between sanctioned tournaments and FNM. Vintage tournaments can be sanctioned. They cannot be sanctioned as FNM, but they can be held on Fridays. Moreover, giving promos out as prize for this tournament isn't "illegal," nor are the TOs breaking any laws for doing so. The person in question said Evolving Wilds were distributed as the FNM foil. That was an FNM foil from a few months ago; it's not this month's FNM foil. Stores can certainly give away old prizes as prize support--what would you rather do, have them keep them for themselves?
I know the guy said they're running these events as FNM, but again, I think the OP is just misinformed. They're probably just holding Vintage / Legacy tounaments on Friday Nights. If you directly ask them what is your FNM format for this week I'm fairly certain the store owner is not going to answer Legacy or Vintage. If he does, do what other people said, and just go to a different store. It sounds like you have plenty of other options (then again, I don't know what "across town" means for you Californians. For me it's a 5 minute drive...)
This is actually pretty easy to determine what it's being reported as, look up your planeswalker points with your DCI number and see what it says your Friday events are being entered as.
You can't expect change without pushing the store in the right direction. And don't complain if you aren't willing to do anything to change your situation. There's a lot of helpful advice here (6 pages of it.) If all these people are willing to try to give you their 2cents, maybe you should take the dollar and do something with it.
That, or just start playing casually with friends. I think you'd be much better off enjoying your Fridays at a store that follows the rules more strictly and bonus points for that store if they also have friendly players.
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Not playing much these days... hope all is well in the MtG community
EDH:
Zur, The Enchanter
Modern:
Burn
Legacy:
Cheeri0s
Burn
I feel like some of you don't understand the difference between sanctioned tournaments and FNM. Vintage tournaments can be sanctioned. They cannot be sanctioned as FNM, but they can be held on Fridays. Moreover, giving promos out as prize for this tournament isn't "illegal," nor are the TOs breaking any laws for doing so. The person in question said Evolving Wilds were distributed as the FNM foil. That was an FNM foil from a few months ago; it's not this month's FNM foil. Stores can certainly give away old prizes as prize support--what would you rather do, have them keep them for themselves?
I know the guy said they're running these events as FNM, but again, I think the OP is just misinformed. They're probably just holding Vintage / Legacy tounaments on Friday Nights. If you directly ask them what is your FNM format for this week I'm fairly certain the store owner is not going to answer Legacy or Vintage. If he does, do what other people said, and just go to a different store. It sounds like you have plenty of other options (then again, I don't know what "across town" means for you Californians. For me it's a 5 minute drive...)
I was given the Evolving Wilds FNM foil a few months ago. While it was supposed to be distributed. Just as they were distributing Pillar of Flame last friday.
I have asked before. They do in-fact say Vintage.
The drive is fairly long. About 15-20 minutes farther away from the store that already takes me 20 minutes to get to.
This is actually pretty easy to determine what it's being reported as, look up your planeswalker points with your DCI number and see what it says your Friday events are being entered as.
I looked it up and it is being reported as Extended.
OP, this is starting to get pants on head silly, just report it anonymously or get a friend in your place to say the store isn't following a sanctioned format. Done deal, besides YOU aren't the one cheating here. Why would you care if you "might" lose some social face?
What's the policy on naming and shaming stores on MTGSally? Heck, there sounds like enough information here that all we need is an actual town and we could work the rest out for ourselves.
By not reporting it, you're part of the problem and if as it reads to me that your friends will disapprove of you if the store gets ratted out, your friends suck. Do the right thing. Rat out the store to Wizards. If players are doing well and winning, thats tough, but something like this-to whit the false reporting of events... That sucks.
EDH, on the other hand, is more like a monster truck rally. It's more about the spectacle than the race, the games go long, and it's not usually clear who's in the lead until there's only one truck left.*
Single player EDH is like two guys smacking each other with pillows... until one of them pulls out a shotgun.
What's the policy on naming and shaming stores on MTGSally? Heck, there sounds like enough information here that all we need is an actual town and we could work the rest out for ourselves.
By not reporting it, you're part of the problem and if as it reads to me that your friends will disapprove of you if the store gets ratted out, your friends suck. Do the right thing. Rat out the store to Wizards. If players are doing well and winning, thats tough, but something like this-to whit the false reporting of events... That sucks.
Please do something about this.
My guess is:
Russo's Books & Sports Collectibles
9000 Ming Ave
Ste I-4
Bakersfield, CA 93311
United States
It's the California store with almost all Extended FNMs. Most of the other stores with Extended FNMs have other formats as well. This one doesn't.
Anyways, i wanted to bring something else up, that literally just went official about a couple hours ago. The biggest store (Paladins Gaming Castle) is now shutting down, and considering re-opening in another place. I think this will really help out in getting attendance at Russo's up and I won't be the only one saying that it isn't right that they aren't playing the correct format.
So, hopefully this works out in the end. Even if no one cares, I feel like reporting was the right thing and I hope to see a format change hit the store very quickly.
Anyways, i wanted to bring something else up, that literally just went official about a couple hours ago. The biggest store (Paladins Gaming Castle) is now shutting down, and considering re-opening in another place. I think this will really help out in getting attendance at Russo's up and I won't be the only one saying that it isn't right that they aren't playing the correct format.
So, hopefully this works out in the end. Even if no one cares, I feel like reporting was the right thing and I hope to see a format change hit the store very quickly.
Hope everything works out for the best.
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I write about cube and run cube drafts on magic online.
Hey guys, I just wanted to do a little follow-up since it's been around 17 days since our last post. (I might get yelled at for necro-ing my own thread xD)
Basically, I have addressed the problem with the person that runs the FNM's. I didn't say i was reporting, because i already had reported before even going back to the store.
But to my surprise, even though the only place that played standard in town just closed, i got the response of "There is no way that we will change to Standard."
I'm kind of upset that they wouldn't even consider it, and i'm kind of upset with how long it has taken for my report to go through with wizards. I don't know what else i can do besides sit and wait, but what do i do for the weeks until the moment wizards finally does something? Sit at home every friday night while my friends still illegally play vintage there?
It's just not fun for me anymore and i've been dying for them to say something about them getting an email from wizards or something.
It's getting tiring and I really just want a change to hit. I've emailed the correct people and everything I can do has been done, but how long is too long to wait? I don't understand why it's taking so long if wizards (like people have been saying) does not approve of people playing and essentially stealing promos. It just does not make sense.
I hate to say it, but WoTC most likely isn't going to do anything. Maybe they send a letter or something. But that's it. WoTC and Hasbro consider Hobby and Game stores their core partners. They aren't going to do anything to take action against them unless there is serious bad stuff going on.
An old LGS I played at ran Vintage as FNM and submitted the results as sanctioned, there was one guy with P9 who won every single week and was ranked the #1 standard player in our state despite not owning a single standard legal card. A couple guys got upset and reported to the DCI, the owner got a letter in the mail a few months later, but he knew nothing about Magic and didn't even know what it meant, so he tossed it, and continued on his merry way.
The only real thing you can do is run your own private tournamanet. Ask the players to buy packs to put in the prize pool, and run the pairings and standings yourself. You won't get promos, but you're not getting them now, so you aren't really losing anything. The store shouldn't care because they are still selling packs.
I had to do this in my area because every single LGS in a 25 mile radius exclusively run draft for FNM and have each told me straight up they are never going to run a constructed event cause they make no money off them. So I had to start approaching the players and find the ones who want to play constructed and we buy our own packs for the prize pool and run our own side events.
What I try and put together are $15 win a box 8 man's, either cube or constructed. Players get to play hat they want, they have a chance at getting a box for $15, and the store gets to sell a box for $120. Everyone wins.
This is entirely incorrect - The only time FNM promos can be given out is for the FNM they were sent out as prizes for. If for any reason you end up with spare promos or you have to cancel, Wizards policy is that you must return the cards to them.
This is 100% incorrect. WOTC never requests for promos to be returned to them. They simply request that you use them for future events.
After a long time of waiting I finally decided to give up on going to the store. There is a new store that is now going to start sanctioning standard this upcoming year, and i will be attending there from now on. I'm really looking forward to it and i an very excited to get to play in a format i have never played, but have wanted to play.
This is 100% incorrect. WOTC never requests for promos to be returned to them. They simply request that you use them for future events.
Specifically, future FNM events, after the month that the FNM was for. FNM foils for the current month may only be distributed as described on the fact sheet for FNM (1st place, 2nd place, 2 randoms). Once the month has passed, they my be given out at future FNMs.
This is 100% incorrect. WOTC never requests for promos to be returned to them. They simply request that you use them for future events.
this is correct. my friend used to own a store... we would use left over promos to give to people who didn't finish didn't get the FNM promo for the month.
he had a lot of angel/demon tokens..... like a lot
Competitive FNMs are terrible.
Unfortunatly you're not going to change the minds of the top players, since they're basically coming up every time they play in the tournament.
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What's the big deal? You could have played multiple Righteous Avengers for years now.
Why can't you just come in with your own sweet Vintage/Legacy deck, full of printed-off proxies (FOW, P9, the whole shabang). They're running an "illegal" tournament (not allowed by DCI standards) - so you might as well play by their rules. Get a group together and have several people do it.
It's not that I want to complain. I just want to change things without getting the store completely removed from having the privilege of hosting. There are some people that can't really afford to drive across town, and I don't want to be that person that screwed the store over.
But if I was to report them, I wouldn't know how to classify it, or how to fill out the form/find the form. Any help though would be appreciated.
This may be late, but by trying to fix things you aren't screwing the store over, you are helping them, even if they don't know it yet. Wizards is in the business for a long time and they know Standard is the way to go for growth of Magic.
After a long time of waiting I finally decided to give up on going to the store. There is a new store that is now going to start sanctioning standard this upcoming year, and i will be attending there from now on. I'm really looking forward to it and i an very excited to get to play in a format i have never played, but have wanted to play.
See what I meant? This store has just lost a customer, and I can safely say you aren't the only one that feels this way. They are losing money for doing as they do as it's kinda impossible to maintain new players in a toxic enviroment like this. The store will continue with just the old sharks until they slowly fade away because the way life is(marriage, jobs,kids and so on). Without new blood magic cannot survive forever.
----
What you should do is contact a judge in your area or the regional coordinator(if you don't know how, PM me and I will find it for you as I'm a judge myself), they certainly know what to do and how to help fixing things, no one is getting hurt, the store don't need to be closed, and they can still play vintage or legacy if the player base wants it (not as FNM though). Everything will be fine and better, players will be happier, the store will get more income, and the only way to go is up. Also you certainly can be your store judge even if you aren't certified, having one trustable guy to solve rules and tournament issues certainly increase players enjoyment overall, and if you are confident in your skills or accept to study a bit you can certainly become this judge.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
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Daut is obviously in a tough position. he's trying to make positive changes but doesn't want to end up losing his community. There is often an abominably large cost for standing up and doing what's right. I think we should cut him some slack.
Furthermore, I'm convinced that he decided to do the right thing.
Hang in there Daut Hopefully things will change soon.
Daut, hire a ringer to come into the store to play FNM Magic. Offer to give him cards if you have to. He may not even be a Magic player. Doesn't matter. Give him a deck and before he goes in, give him a script to memorize.
Essentially, he will walk into the store, tell the owner he's here for FNM. He registers, starts to play and sees people are playing "non standard decks". He goes up to the store owner and complains and tells the owner he's going to report him for running a non legal FNM.
Naturally, he will need to get himself a DCI number before he goes there so it doesn't look suspicious.
Do it right and nobody will ever suspect it was you. Problem solved.
Damn, I watched too much Mission Impossible growing up.
I think that's up to the players and not you.
I'm competitive when playing cube with friends.
I know the guy said they're running these events as FNM, but again, I think the OP is just misinformed. They're probably just holding Vintage / Legacy tounaments on Friday Nights. If you directly ask them what is your FNM format for this week I'm fairly certain the store owner is not going to answer Legacy or Vintage. If he does, do what other people said, and just go to a different store. It sounds like you have plenty of other options (then again, I don't know what "across town" means for you Californians. For me it's a 5 minute drive...)
That, or just start playing casually with friends. I think you'd be much better off enjoying your Fridays at a store that follows the rules more strictly and bonus points for that store if they also have friendly players.
EDH:
Zur, The Enchanter
Modern:
Burn
Legacy:
Cheeri0s
Burn
Yes. But, i don't have judge certification.
I was given the Evolving Wilds FNM foil a few months ago. While it was supposed to be distributed. Just as they were distributing Pillar of Flame last friday.
I have asked before. They do in-fact say Vintage.
The drive is fairly long. About 15-20 minutes farther away from the store that already takes me 20 minutes to get to.
I looked it up and it is being reported as Extended.
FULL TIME FAERIES
Selvala
By not reporting it, you're part of the problem and if as it reads to me that your friends will disapprove of you if the store gets ratted out, your friends suck. Do the right thing. Rat out the store to Wizards. If players are doing well and winning, thats tough, but something like this-to whit the false reporting of events... That sucks.
Please do something about this.
On building a Celestial Kirin Stax EDH:
My guess is:
Russo's Books & Sports Collectibles
9000 Ming Ave
Ste I-4
Bakersfield, CA 93311
United States
It's the California store with almost all Extended FNMs. Most of the other stores with Extended FNMs have other formats as well. This one doesn't.
Anyways, i wanted to bring something else up, that literally just went official about a couple hours ago. The biggest store (Paladins Gaming Castle) is now shutting down, and considering re-opening in another place. I think this will really help out in getting attendance at Russo's up and I won't be the only one saying that it isn't right that they aren't playing the correct format.
So, hopefully this works out in the end. Even if no one cares, I feel like reporting was the right thing and I hope to see a format change hit the store very quickly.
FULL TIME FAERIES
Selvala
Hope everything works out for the best.
peasantcube.blogspot.com
Basically, I have addressed the problem with the person that runs the FNM's. I didn't say i was reporting, because i already had reported before even going back to the store.
But to my surprise, even though the only place that played standard in town just closed, i got the response of "There is no way that we will change to Standard."
I'm kind of upset that they wouldn't even consider it, and i'm kind of upset with how long it has taken for my report to go through with wizards. I don't know what else i can do besides sit and wait, but what do i do for the weeks until the moment wizards finally does something? Sit at home every friday night while my friends still illegally play vintage there?
It's just not fun for me anymore and i've been dying for them to say something about them getting an email from wizards or something.
It's getting tiring and I really just want a change to hit. I've emailed the correct people and everything I can do has been done, but how long is too long to wait? I don't understand why it's taking so long if wizards (like people have been saying) does not approve of people playing and essentially stealing promos. It just does not make sense.
FULL TIME FAERIES
Selvala
An old LGS I played at ran Vintage as FNM and submitted the results as sanctioned, there was one guy with P9 who won every single week and was ranked the #1 standard player in our state despite not owning a single standard legal card. A couple guys got upset and reported to the DCI, the owner got a letter in the mail a few months later, but he knew nothing about Magic and didn't even know what it meant, so he tossed it, and continued on his merry way.
The only real thing you can do is run your own private tournamanet. Ask the players to buy packs to put in the prize pool, and run the pairings and standings yourself. You won't get promos, but you're not getting them now, so you aren't really losing anything. The store shouldn't care because they are still selling packs.
I had to do this in my area because every single LGS in a 25 mile radius exclusively run draft for FNM and have each told me straight up they are never going to run a constructed event cause they make no money off them. So I had to start approaching the players and find the ones who want to play constructed and we buy our own packs for the prize pool and run our own side events.
What I try and put together are $15 win a box 8 man's, either cube or constructed. Players get to play hat they want, they have a chance at getting a box for $15, and the store gets to sell a box for $120. Everyone wins.
This is 100% incorrect. WOTC never requests for promos to be returned to them. They simply request that you use them for future events.
FULL TIME FAERIES
Selvala
Specifically, future FNM events, after the month that the FNM was for. FNM foils for the current month may only be distributed as described on the fact sheet for FNM (1st place, 2nd place, 2 randoms). Once the month has passed, they my be given out at future FNMs.
High Number Death Game
20 Questions (with Magic Cards)
this is correct. my friend used to own a store... we would use left over promos to give to people who didn't finish didn't get the FNM promo for the month.
he had a lot of angel/demon tokens..... like a lot
Kirin's Skyfire Help Desk
Trading Post
Unfortunatly you're not going to change the minds of the top players, since they're basically coming up every time they play in the tournament.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
See what I meant? This store has just lost a customer, and I can safely say you aren't the only one that feels this way. They are losing money for doing as they do as it's kinda impossible to maintain new players in a toxic enviroment like this. The store will continue with just the old sharks until they slowly fade away because the way life is(marriage, jobs,kids and so on). Without new blood magic cannot survive forever.
----
What you should do is contact a judge in your area or the regional coordinator(if you don't know how, PM me and I will find it for you as I'm a judge myself), they certainly know what to do and how to help fixing things, no one is getting hurt, the store don't need to be closed, and they can still play vintage or legacy if the player base wants it (not as FNM though). Everything will be fine and better, players will be happier, the store will get more income, and the only way to go is up. Also you certainly can be your store judge even if you aren't certified, having one trustable guy to solve rules and tournament issues certainly increase players enjoyment overall, and if you are confident in your skills or accept to study a bit you can certainly become this judge.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.