I was wondering, if you had dollars to blow through are you more likely to make more money buying booster packs and reselling the contents or are you more likely to win money at a slot machine. How about blackjack or craps? I am just wondering if pack opening is a legitimate form of gambling.
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Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets. (Matthew 7:12)
Make the white queen run so fast, she hasn't got time to make you wise.
Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace, like thoughts inside a dream.
Doctor, my eyes, tell me what you see. I hear their cries... just say if it's too late for me.
Doctor, my eyes...cannot see the sky. Is this the prize for having learned how not to cry?
Both of them are losing propositions. The price of cards is linked to the price of booster boxes, if you open a statistically relevant number of booster cases you'll lose money.
Same with any casino game.
If you have a lot of money that you are trying to "win" money back from, your best bet the stock market or putting it in the bank.
I was wondering, if you had dollars to blow through are you more likely to make more money buying booster packs and reselling the contents or are you more likely to win money at a slot machine. How about blackjack or craps? I am just wondering if pack opening is a legitimate form of gambling.
With a large enough sample size at bulk prices, the correct set, bought at the correct time (around/before release), and being good at pricing/selling cards, you WILL make money. How do you think there is a singles business?
A slot machine on the other hand, given a large enough sample size, everyone's a loser regardless of their skill or circumstances. And they lose much, much bigger than clueless people opening boxes that can at least get rid of their valuable rares.
Both of them are losing propositions. The price of cards is linked to the price of booster boxes, if you open a statistically relevant number of booster cases you'll lose money.
Same with any casino game.
If you have a lot of money that you are trying to "win" money back from, your best bet the stock market or putting it in the bank.
The odds are bad.
Ok say I had a 100 dollars, do you think the odds of me making money would be better buying a box of a set or using that cash for poker, blackjack or craps?
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Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets. (Matthew 7:12)
Make the white queen run so fast, she hasn't got time to make you wise.
Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace, like thoughts inside a dream.
Doctor, my eyes, tell me what you see. I hear their cries... just say if it's too late for me.
Doctor, my eyes...cannot see the sky. Is this the prize for having learned how not to cry?
The contents of a pack are usually worth less than the pack itself. If this wasn't the case, everyone would just crack packs, sell the contents for more than what they bought the pack for, then buy more packs and repeat. This happened to Ravnica (Shocklands), Morningtide (Mutavault, Vendilion Clique), Future Sight (Goyf), Worldwake (Jace TMS) - boosters from those sets are very rare now, and sell for 2-3x what a normal booster of the current set would cost.
You will always, always lose at pure-luck casino games like slots, craps or roulette. Blackjack is different, if you count cards AND play optimally AND have every rule in your favor (5 card charlie, or 3 to 2 blackjacks for example), you will turn in a profit, although your capital must be high, and you only make like $5 per hour.
First of all, people who don't know jack about gambling shouldn't talk about gambling. I learned to gamble from a professional gambler back in the 80s. You can come out ahead at Casinos. You can even earn a living gambling. It is just a real grind and extremely hard. I'm not going to post a gambling tutorial here because it's beyond the scope of answering the question. So I'll just give you the Readers' Digest version.
"You can make money gambling because there are things that you are in control of such as choice of game, bankroll, money management, etc. that can give you a small edge over a short period of time."
With Magic, you have no control over anything as far as buying boxes, packs or whatever. You have absolutely no idea what's in each pack or box and have absolutely no idea when the market is going to rise or tank on a specific card or cards.
It's a total crap shoot.
The big sellers can make money doing this because of volume of purchases and essentially controlling the market prices. The little guy can't do that. Plus, SCG gets a box of cards for a lot less than we do. This greatly helps contribute to their profit margin.
If I had to choose between making money selling Magic cards or going to a Casino and playing Blackjack, I'll take the Casino and Blackjack in a heartbeat.
Magic cards for the little guy is a losing proposition.
With such a low sampling you're probably better off playing a casino game (more fun anyway). You're still at a disadvantage but I think it would be less than if you bought a box.
If you win too much or too often in a casino they will throw you out (not always literally). Any pure chance game always favors the house, same for mtg boosters.
If you win too much or too often in a casino they will throw you out (not always literally). Any pure chance game always favors the house, same for mtg boosters.
The key to being successful at a casino is knowing when to leave ON YOUR OWN. That's something a lot of "addicted" gamblers can't do and casinos depend on that because, yes, eventually the tide will turn and the house will win.
When I go to a casino, which isn't as often as I would like, I almost always come home ahead. Why?
Did you know that, statistically, over 50% of the players who go to casinos are actually UP on the house at any given point in time. The reason they go home broke is lack of discipline.
I really should teach a course on gambling. A lot of casinos would go out of business if everybody played like I did. For one thing, I don't play long enough for them to make anything off of me. For another, once I'm ahead, that's it. They can't catch me because I play pocket and excess the rest of the day.
For example, I go up $50. I take $25 and put it in my pocket and play with the other $25. If I lose it, that's it...I go home up $25. If I win, I split my winnings up. I pocket half and add the other half to the excess.
On long runs, which you WILL have, it adds up.
I just wish I lived closer to Atlantic City. I could make a nice part time living as a gambler with no problem.
I agree with you on all of that. Im a poker guy, and knowing when to stand up and go home is the difference between going home a winner or not. Im more talking about slots and roulette where youre just guessing numbers is a losing decision.
One thing LBS didnt mention, of the 3 games King Pun listed, blackjack, craps and poker, craps is a game of chance played against the house, blackjack YOU have control over the game as in choice you can make to come out ahead with basic strategy, poker is not played against the house, but against the other players at the table. The house takes a cut of the pot.
Ripping a pack is a game of chance, you have no control over anything. Its alot like craps, not so much poker or blackjack.
One thing LBS didnt mention, of the 3 games King Pun listed, blackjack, craps and poker, craps is a game of chance played against the house, blackjack YOU have control over the game as in choice you can make to come out ahead with basic strategy, poker is not played against the house, but against the other players at the table. The house takes a cut of the pot.
Ripping a pack is a game of chance, you have no control over anything. Its alot like craps, not so much poker or blackjack.
This advice is actually very poor. Craps is THE game to play if you are a novice-semi experienced gambler. Take the double odds and give the house the edge of .6%. PERFECT fundamental strategy in black jack reduces the house favor to .8%. Then its about being finding a place with some solid "house rules" and a lower number of decks and being very very skilled. If all that comes together in your favor you still risk getting thrown out, blacklisted, or hell even bodily harm.
You will never come near that with cracking boosters. Retail stores have wholesale prices, much more efficient supply,storage, and shipment arrangements and are able to sell all the sets of "draft trash" and even for them there are only so many boxes they crack. With all of that in their favor they will keep cracking crates if the ev and sealed vs singles demand necessitates it.
One thing LBS didnt mention, of the 3 games King Pun listed, blackjack, craps and poker, craps is a game of chance played against the house, blackjack YOU have control over the game as in choice you can make to come out ahead with basic strategy, poker is not played against the house, but against the other players at the table. The house takes a cut of the pot.
Ripping a pack is a game of chance, you have no control over anything. Its alot like craps, not so much poker or blackjack.
This goes without saying. There are some casino games, like roulette (about a 5.55% vig) that you don't go anywhere near if you're a serious gambler.
If I go to the casinos, which again is very rare these days, I'll play craps or blackjack and that's it. I'll only play poker if it's hold 'em. But the buy ins are so high usually that I just don't care to risk it.
And in response to the member saying that you'll get "thrown out" that all depends on the establishment, how obvious you are that you're counting cards, and how much money you try to take them for. I've yet to be thrown out of a casino simply because I've never walked away from a table with more than a couple of hundred bucks.
Be smart, don't be stupid, and you won't get thrown out.
I don't understand how everybody thx this is normal. A thing that is allowed to throw you out if you take their money, but is allowed to rip you off for everything you have. If you are not using anything that does the counting for you, they should never be allowed to throw you out.
Unfortunately, that's the reality of this business. If they catch you, or even suspect you of counting, they WILL throw you out.
But trust me, more counters get away with it than those that actually DO get tossed out on their ear.
I've had a dealer actually help a friend and me count, the dude was pretty cool and we tipped well. Another night after going up almost 1500$ they came in with a new dealer and new cards, I left the table and went to a new one and they pulled the same crap. I ended up losing like 10 in a row. Real ridiculous stuff to like being on 19 or 20 and the dealer flipping 21. I haven't gone back to a casino since, I'm convinced they're cheating thieves.
I was wondering, if you had dollars to blow through are you more likely to make more money buying booster packs and reselling the contents or are you more likely to win money at a slot machine. How about blackjack or craps? I am just wondering if pack opening is a legitimate form of gambling.
I'm not sure what you mean by "legitimate". Either way, the EV of packs can be calculated just as the EV of gambling can be calculated. Perhaps the simplest baseline valuation would be what the person opening packs can sell all the individual cards for, and averaging based on the probabilities would give the EV of any given pack. Note that the valuation might change somewhat depending on the individual (e.g., if the person opening the packs actually wants to keep certain cards so the value would resemble something closer to market value, etc.)
Because there are a significant number of people who engage in activities that require sealed booster packs (Limited formats, people who are simply obsessed with the feeling of cracking packs, etc.), it naturally follows that a booster pack will have a higher market value than the EV of the individual cards.
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Standard Mono-Green Aggro Modern :symb::0mana: Dark Affinity | :symu::symr: UR Breach | :symb::symr: Dark Burn Casual :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Bruna Reanimator (Standard) My LGS is Asgard Games in Houston, TX.
The key to being successful at a casino is knowing when to leave ON YOUR OWN. That's something a lot of "addicted" gamblers can't do and casinos depend on that because, yes, eventually the tide will turn and the house will win.
When I go to a casino, which isn't as often as I would like, I almost always come home ahead. Why?
Did you know that, statistically, over 50% of the players who go to casinos are actually UP on the house at any given point in time. The reason they go home broke is lack of discipline.
I really should teach a course on gambling. A lot of casinos would go out of business if everybody played like I did. For one thing, I don't play long enough for them to make anything off of me. For another, once I'm ahead, that's it. They can't catch me because I play pocket and excess the rest of the day.
For example, I go up $50. I take $25 and put it in my pocket and play with the other $25. If I lose it, that's it...I go home up $25. If I win, I split my winnings up. I pocket half and add the other half to the excess.
On long runs, which you WILL have, it adds up.
I just wish I lived closer to Atlantic City. I could make a nice part time living as a gambler with no problem.
I sat down with a client who wanted to invest his retirement like this...
I told him if he wanted to use casino strategies, just take it to the casino.
I'd akin opening packs to more like scratch offs. You pay $3, sometimes you win $50, a few times you win $10. You break even quite a bit with a ticket and the rest of the time you scratch out.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
This advice is actually very poor. Craps is THE game to play if you are a novice-semi experienced gambler. Take the double odds and give the house the edge of .6%. PERFECT fundamental strategy in black jack reduces the house favor to .8%. Then its about being finding a place with some solid "house rules" and a lower number of decks and being very very skilled. If all that comes together in your favor you still risk getting thrown out, blacklisted, or hell even bodily harm.
You will never come near that with cracking boosters. Retail stores have wholesale prices, much more efficient supply,storage, and shipment arrangements and are able to sell all the sets of "draft trash" and even for them there are only so many boxes they crack. With all of that in their favor they will keep cracking crates if the ev and sealed vs singles demand necessitates it.
You are correct if its someone just going to kill time with a few extra bucks. But, if you play basic strategy blackjack, which really isnt hard to learn, you can come away with an edge against the house. The only hard thing is having the willpower to get up at the right time.
As for counting cards, I have been in many casinos across the country and heard pit bosses talk about how good some of their regulars can count. Its not illegal to count, if you can do it in your head, its when people start using devices to help them.
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Make the white queen run so fast, she hasn't got time to make you wise.
Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace, like thoughts inside a dream.
Doctor, my eyes, tell me what you see. I hear their cries... just say if it's too late for me.
Doctor, my eyes...cannot see the sky. Is this the prize for having learned how not to cry?
Same with any casino game.
If you have a lot of money that you are trying to "win" money back from, your best bet the stock market or putting it in the bank.
The odds are bad.
With a large enough sample size at bulk prices, the correct set, bought at the correct time (around/before release), and being good at pricing/selling cards, you WILL make money. How do you think there is a singles business?
A slot machine on the other hand, given a large enough sample size, everyone's a loser regardless of their skill or circumstances. And they lose much, much bigger than clueless people opening boxes that can at least get rid of their valuable rares.
Ok say I had a 100 dollars, do you think the odds of me making money would be better buying a box of a set or using that cash for poker, blackjack or craps?
Make the white queen run so fast, she hasn't got time to make you wise.
Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace, like thoughts inside a dream.
Doctor, my eyes, tell me what you see. I hear their cries... just say if it's too late for me.
Doctor, my eyes...cannot see the sky. Is this the prize for having learned how not to cry?
The contents of a pack are usually worth less than the pack itself. If this wasn't the case, everyone would just crack packs, sell the contents for more than what they bought the pack for, then buy more packs and repeat. This happened to Ravnica (Shocklands), Morningtide (Mutavault, Vendilion Clique), Future Sight (Goyf), Worldwake (Jace TMS) - boosters from those sets are very rare now, and sell for 2-3x what a normal booster of the current set would cost.
You will always, always lose at pure-luck casino games like slots, craps or roulette. Blackjack is different, if you count cards AND play optimally AND have every rule in your favor (5 card charlie, or 3 to 2 blackjacks for example), you will turn in a profit, although your capital must be high, and you only make like $5 per hour.
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Big Johnny.
"You can make money gambling because there are things that you are in control of such as choice of game, bankroll, money management, etc. that can give you a small edge over a short period of time."
With Magic, you have no control over anything as far as buying boxes, packs or whatever. You have absolutely no idea what's in each pack or box and have absolutely no idea when the market is going to rise or tank on a specific card or cards.
It's a total crap shoot.
The big sellers can make money doing this because of volume of purchases and essentially controlling the market prices. The little guy can't do that. Plus, SCG gets a box of cards for a lot less than we do. This greatly helps contribute to their profit margin.
If I had to choose between making money selling Magic cards or going to a Casino and playing Blackjack, I'll take the Casino and Blackjack in a heartbeat.
Magic cards for the little guy is a losing proposition.
The key to being successful at a casino is knowing when to leave ON YOUR OWN. That's something a lot of "addicted" gamblers can't do and casinos depend on that because, yes, eventually the tide will turn and the house will win.
When I go to a casino, which isn't as often as I would like, I almost always come home ahead. Why?
Did you know that, statistically, over 50% of the players who go to casinos are actually UP on the house at any given point in time. The reason they go home broke is lack of discipline.
I really should teach a course on gambling. A lot of casinos would go out of business if everybody played like I did. For one thing, I don't play long enough for them to make anything off of me. For another, once I'm ahead, that's it. They can't catch me because I play pocket and excess the rest of the day.
For example, I go up $50. I take $25 and put it in my pocket and play with the other $25. If I lose it, that's it...I go home up $25. If I win, I split my winnings up. I pocket half and add the other half to the excess.
On long runs, which you WILL have, it adds up.
I just wish I lived closer to Atlantic City. I could make a nice part time living as a gambler with no problem.
Ripping a pack is a game of chance, you have no control over anything. Its alot like craps, not so much poker or blackjack.
This advice is actually very poor. Craps is THE game to play if you are a novice-semi experienced gambler. Take the double odds and give the house the edge of .6%. PERFECT fundamental strategy in black jack reduces the house favor to .8%. Then its about being finding a place with some solid "house rules" and a lower number of decks and being very very skilled. If all that comes together in your favor you still risk getting thrown out, blacklisted, or hell even bodily harm.
You will never come near that with cracking boosters. Retail stores have wholesale prices, much more efficient supply,storage, and shipment arrangements and are able to sell all the sets of "draft trash" and even for them there are only so many boxes they crack. With all of that in their favor they will keep cracking crates if the ev and sealed vs singles demand necessitates it.
Magic players have made it abundantly clear that their time is worth $0/hour in their opinion, so no sympathy there. -DR jeebus or something
This goes without saying. There are some casino games, like roulette (about a 5.55% vig) that you don't go anywhere near if you're a serious gambler.
If I go to the casinos, which again is very rare these days, I'll play craps or blackjack and that's it. I'll only play poker if it's hold 'em. But the buy ins are so high usually that I just don't care to risk it.
And in response to the member saying that you'll get "thrown out" that all depends on the establishment, how obvious you are that you're counting cards, and how much money you try to take them for. I've yet to be thrown out of a casino simply because I've never walked away from a table with more than a couple of hundred bucks.
Be smart, don't be stupid, and you won't get thrown out.
Unfortunately, that's the reality of this business. If they catch you, or even suspect you of counting, they WILL throw you out.
But trust me, more counters get away with it than those that actually DO get tossed out on their ear.
I'm not sure what you mean by "legitimate". Either way, the EV of packs can be calculated just as the EV of gambling can be calculated. Perhaps the simplest baseline valuation would be what the person opening packs can sell all the individual cards for, and averaging based on the probabilities would give the EV of any given pack. Note that the valuation might change somewhat depending on the individual (e.g., if the person opening the packs actually wants to keep certain cards so the value would resemble something closer to market value, etc.)
Because there are a significant number of people who engage in activities that require sealed booster packs (Limited formats, people who are simply obsessed with the feeling of cracking packs, etc.), it naturally follows that a booster pack will have a higher market value than the EV of the individual cards.
Modern :symb::0mana: Dark Affinity | :symu::symr: UR Breach | :symb::symr: Dark Burn
Casual :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Bruna Reanimator (Standard)
My LGS is Asgard Games in Houston, TX.
I sat down with a client who wanted to invest his retirement like this...
I told him if he wanted to use casino strategies, just take it to the casino.
I'd akin opening packs to more like scratch offs. You pay $3, sometimes you win $50, a few times you win $10. You break even quite a bit with a ticket and the rest of the time you scratch out.
You are correct if its someone just going to kill time with a few extra bucks. But, if you play basic strategy blackjack, which really isnt hard to learn, you can come away with an edge against the house. The only hard thing is having the willpower to get up at the right time.
As for counting cards, I have been in many casinos across the country and heard pit bosses talk about how good some of their regulars can count. Its not illegal to count, if you can do it in your head, its when people start using devices to help them.