Luckily my store does it right: all mythics, rares, and foils are put in a pot at the end of the night. People then pick what they want in order of success. So first plays picks first card, etc. Really rewards the winners, and keeps people from cutting and running with their loot.
I'm not a fan of this. I built my deck and took the cards I needed for it now you're telling me someone else gets them? Do you do it for uncommons and commons to then?
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combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
I'm not a fan of this. I built my deck and took the cards I needed for it now you're telling me someone else gets them? Do you do it for uncommons and commons to then?
Most stores don't do that, since very few people care about which commons/uncommons they get and the few money uncommons that may be in a set aren't worth a much longer redraft process. Though some places redraft any foils opened, including commons/uncommons. Yes, you took the cards you needed for your deck, but that was a limited deck. It's unlikely to translate into anything usable in constructed.
Most stores don't do that, since very few people care about which commons/uncommons they get and the few money uncommons that may be in a set aren't worth a much longer redraft process. Though some places redraft any foils opened, including commons/uncommons. Yes, you took the cards you needed for your deck, but that was a limited deck. It's unlikely to translate into anything usable in constructed.
I guess I wasn't too clear with my post but it was more of a rhetorical question. I pulled cards I wanted and having to repick them at the end of the night makes no sense unless we redo the entire booster because it makes the cards I originally pulled worthless if I'm not getting what I choose initially.
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Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
I guess I wasn't too clear with my post but it was more of a rhetorical question. I pulled cards I wanted and having to repick them at the end of the night makes no sense unless we redo the entire booster because it makes the cards I originally pulled worthless if I'm not getting what I choose initially.
It makes for a better draft because you won't pick the Temporal Mastery you opened pack 3 when you're solidly RG. Instead you'll take some other card that makes your deck better.
Not redrafting means people will be bad and take cards for their monetary value and not for their deck.
And sometimes that's ok, I do realise that not everyone wants to be good at the game.
[Candidly insert story about famous pro who passed Baneslayer Angel in a draft.]
On-topic: As long as they finish construction before leaving, then it should be fine. If they immediately take their bag and pool into the loo, then that seems a bit cheaty.
But, there is a certain amount of trust that is needed for these events to work and still be fun. That's why breaking it usually results in some sort of ban from the store.
No, statistically people losing prerelease take home about 75% of their investment (in my area you pay for 8 packs: six for you, two for the prize) - still a pretty good chace for Cavern of Souls.
Losers in draft get, like, Dread Slaver.
You can surely spot the difference.
Furthermore, had they not redrafted, the loser could have gotten the dread slaver, the griselbrand he pulled, and then traded off the temporal mastery he opened pack 1 pick one and then left unused.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
It makes for a better draft because you won't pick the Temporal Mastery you opened pack 3 when you're solidly RG. Instead you'll take some other card that makes your deck better.
Not redrafting means people will be bad and take cards for their monetary value and not for their deck.
And sometimes that's ok, I do realise that not everyone wants to be good at the game.
It rewards those who do win. There's a difference.
When you go to a pre-release, and the winner gets a ton of packs and the people at the very bottom get nothing, are they being punished for losing?
Except that taking cards so other people don't use them is a strategy to employ.
And also redistributing cards does punish those who lost because you're rewarding the winnner by taking the loser's card. Rewarding the winner would be giving them something not used outside of the tournament.
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Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
And also redistributing cards does punish those who lost because you're rewarding the winnner by taking the loser's card. Rewarding the winner would be giving them something not used outside of the tournament.
Yeah, but it isn't the loser's card in this scenario. The loser was allowed to play with it, but ownership of the rares/mythics isn't determined until the end.
This system also makes for a much better draft environment. People pass rares and mythics that they aren't going to play with.
Furthermore, had they not redrafted, the loser could have gotten the dread slaver, the griselbrand he pulled, and then traded off the temporal mastery he opened pack 1 pick one and then left unused.
Yes, and he lost, so he doesn't deserve to have better prizes than the winner. The scenario you're describing sounds horrible - somebody in last place goes home with $30 in prizes, while the winner maybe gets a couple packs as a prize?
Except that taking cards so other people don't use them is a strategy to employ.
And also redistributing cards does punish those who lost because you're rewarding the winnner by taking the loser's card. Rewarding the winner would be giving them something not used outside of the tournament.
Taking cards so other people don't use them is A) ineffective (see the starred hatedraft thread in the limited forum) and B) you can still do that with a rare redraft, you just don't get to keep the card. If you don't want to face Champion of Lambholdt, you can take it Pack 3 Pick 1, you just won't keep it at the end.
It's not the loser's card until the end of the draft. The loser is using it in a deck, but it isn't their card in a redraft system. If I lend you my Legacy deck for a tournament, are you going to complain at the end that I'm taking your cards when I take it back?
Yes, and he lost, so he doesn't deserve to have better prizes than the winner. The scenario you're describing sounds horrible - somebody in last place goes home with $30 in prizes, while the winner maybe gets a couple packs as a prize?
which generates more interest, since everyone can get something good, which means more people can play (more pods), which means better prize support, which means first place can go home with more packs. Good for everyone.
And I've never come in behind 2nd place in a draft. Redrafting is bad.
Taking cards so other people don't use them is A) ineffective (see the starred hatedraft thread in the limited forum) and B) you can still do that with a rare redraft, you just don't get to keep the card. If you don't want to face Champion of Lambholdt, you can take it Pack 3 Pick 1, you just won't keep it at the end.
in most cases yes, but even ignoring that, what if I'm playing blue and should pick the temporal mastery, but I still can't keep it if I get 2nd place?
It's not the loser's card until the end of the draft. The loser is using it in a deck, but it isn't their card in a redraft system. If I lend you my Legacy deck for a tournament, are you going to complain at the end that I'm taking your cards when I take it back?
No, but then I didn't pay money for your deck. I did however pay money for 3 packs of cards. When the prizes I end up getting are akin to getting ****ty repacks, (since that is what they are), I'm going to complain..
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Wow that's all OT. Redrafting I find actually increases the competitiveness of the draft and actually makes the problem that the OP put forward...cheating..more common. I don't mind redrafting myself, but you can't deny that for a lot of players it results in it being a lot more unfun.
My LGS simply does pack per win for drafts. It seems to make the most people happy and as such result in the most drafts.
The truth is that if you have cheaters in your midst then it's up to the store to try and suss it out..possibly have people who leave put their deck up front. See if you get a reaction from them. That's a good way to find out.
which generates more interest, since everyone can get something good, which means more people can play (more pods), which means better prize support, which means first place can go home with more packs. Good for everyone.
And I've never come in behind 2nd place in a draft. Redrafting is bad.
in most cases yes, but even ignoring that, what if I'm playing blue and should pick the temporal mastery, but I still can't keep it if I get 2nd place?
No, but then I didn't pay money for your deck. I did however pay money for 3 packs of cards. When the prizes I end up getting are akin to getting ****ty repacks, (since that is what they are), I'm going to complain..
So you've never come in lower than 2nd place, but your prizes are akin to "****ty repacks"? I don't think you're being honest here, as second place in any draft I've seen will get you a high-quality money rare as your first pick (not to mention the unlikelihood of consistently doing that well).
What if I never open a Temporal Mastery and win every draft and Joe Q. Scrub opens one every draft, picks it no matter what color he's in, and goes 0-3? Does he really deserve all of those?
I don't think redrafting drives away new players either, because both stores I draft at use redrafting and neither has any trouble getting a large number of players every week. The kind of players redrafting would drive away aren't the kind you want to play against anyway.
So you've never come in lower than 2nd place, but your prizes are akin to "****ty repacks"? I don't think you're being honest here, as second place in any draft I've seen will get you a high-quality money rare as your first pick (not to mention the unlikelihood of consistently doing that well).
We don't redraft, we get pack winnings, I was speaking hypothetically. I generally get 4 packs for first, 2 for second in an 8 man pod, in some cases we do 6/3, depends on the store owner's mood.
Also, I'm en exactly that position. During the AVR prerelease, I went 4/0 in the sealed prerelease, and in our top 8 draft I went 3/0/1 (split final round), went home with 6 packs from sealed, 3 from draft, 10 from winning the draft, 4 from going 4/0 (we had a pack per win for the sealed, but no real prize pool unless you drafted), and 2 from a misc giveaway, so 25 packs in total (fro 25 dollars no less!) and I opened exactly 0 mythics. My best pull was arguably a terminus. Was I still happy? Yes, because I went home witha lot more value than the guy who opened temporal mastery in sealed and proceeded to go 0/4, simply because I got SO MUCH MORE product. (3x in fact)
What if I never open a Temporal Mastery and win every draft and Joe Q. Scrub opens one every draft, picks it no matter what color he's in, and goes 0-3? Does he really deserve all of those?
Well, you are opening 2-3x the packs he is, so you should end up making the same amount of money in the long run. Now look at it from his point of view, if you do repacks. Every time you play he opens a money rare, but can never keep them. He stops coming, now you don't have enough people to play.
I don't think redrafting drives away new players either, because both stores I draft at use redrafting and neither has any trouble getting a large number of players every week. The kind of players redrafting would drive away aren't the kind you want to play against anyway.
Then you are lucky, the vast majority of people I talk to here and irl are vehemently against redrafting, as it takes away what is (or seems to be) rightfully mine, and gives it to someone else.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Since this thread is wildly off topic anyway...I was soooo hoping to read about alien abductions related to MTG drafts as the thread name suggested. All I can say is I am disappointed. You all should be ashamed...I'm going to bed now
And also, redrafting sucks...tried it a while back and my LGS lost a lot of customers. They stopped doing it and now the number of players are back up to what they once were. I look at it like this: if a player in RG drafts a Temporal Mastery, fine by me! That's one less relevant card in their 40 I'll have to worry about.
In my store, for a draft, they'll just put all the suspected cheaters in one pod and the rest of us in other pods. It gets really funny because people aren't aware they actually set it up this way, and the cheaters never complain about other cheaters because they themselves are cheaters.
The above few sentences are about as serious as the dude who referenced the bubble bath with home grown loofah sponges. Who knew loofahs grew on trees? How unreal is that?
Honestly, if a player is suspected of cheating, there are enough people around where we can have someone (perhaps the TO, judge, worker, w.e.) "watch" their draft and just make sure everything goes smoothly.
I used to draft at a place where I believe the store owner thought I was cheating. He would always "randomly" check each person's deck boxes and make us put our belongings in our cars before starting the Draft. It seemed like it was when I played usually.
The funny part is that I didn't cheat at all. To me, there's no point in cheating in Draft because if you cheat and lose, that would really suck. Cheating wouldn't guarantee anything unless you did something so obvious. Most of the time, the cards I would get were passed. I did happen to open an interesting number of Vampire Nighthawks and Day of Judgments. However, the role players in my decks were mostly passed to me.
It seems like the owner thought that I really wasn't a good player. Even when he knew that I top 8'd PTQs and other big tournaments, he still thought I was cheating. He never came out and said it, but I just had the feeling.
I just honestly think it was a case of being on fire at that time and understanding the format. My rating went to 1950 during that time, but after that time, it settled closer to 1850, so admittedly I didn't do too well in other Limited formats. I just felt like he was discounting my skill as a player simply because I beat a few players that he considers to be really good (admittedly they are).
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
AVR Release, we have 11 people. During the draft I get a hold of Entreat the Angels, Cavern of Souls, and 5 other not notable rares/holos. I did kinda poopy (like somewhere near 6-9th) and the best card I got was Killing Wave because our pool was so bad. The best cards were Entreat, Cavern, and Bonfire.
So it becomes the fact that the 30-year-old overweight neckbeards who live in their mom's basement eating Hot Pockets and playing WoW all day get the good cards cause they have no life outside Magic, whereas the people who can't catch a break get utter crap and end up wasting money on a bad draft. If anything, I could have kept Entreat and gotten some money out of the draft (Cavern was passed).
Breaking news.
There will be no Tibalt, Tamiyo, Tezzeret, Garruk, Chandra, Liliana, mini-Jace, big-Jace, Garruk again, or Sarkhan in Theros either.
There will also be no Black Lotus.
AVR Release, we have 11 people. During the draft I get a hold of Entreat the Angels, Cavern of Souls, and 5 other not notable rares/holos. I did kinda poopy (like somewhere near 6-9th) and the best card I got was Killing Wave because our pool was so bad. The best cards were Entreat, Cavern, and Bonfire.
So it becomes the fact that the 30-year-old overweight neckbeards who live in their mom's basement eating Hot Pockets and playing WoW all day get the good cards cause they have no life outside Magic, whereas the people who can't catch a break get utter crap and end up wasting money on a bad draft. If anything, I could have kept Entreat and gotten some money out of the draft (Cavern was passed).
You can make the same point without sounding like a judgmental ass. I don't even like redrafts, but why SHOULD you get to play poorly and get a better prize then someone who didn't? You sound like you have some serious entitlement issues. You knew you were playing in a redraft when you signed up, so either don't sign up, play better, or deal with it.
You can make the same point without sounding like a judgmental ass. I don't even like redrafts, but why SHOULD you get to play poorly and get a better prize then someone who didn't? You sound like you have some serious entitlement issues. You knew you were playing in a redraft when you signed up, so either don't sign up, play better, or deal with it.
Well, you are correct that if you know what you're playing is a redraft and you choose to play in it you sort of forfeited rights to complain all shocked about what happened...
BUT:
Most draft tournaments you literally are paying for the packs that you open, which is why redrafts are kinda crappy. So basically I'm paying for three packs and someone else gets to grab any money I get unless I win? That's completely unfair since draft is pretty much a lottery anyway (though not as bad as sealed).
BUT (again):
Since I feel this way I don't go playing in redraft tournaments, because if I did I really wouldn't have any leg to stand on, since I entered knowing what it was.
Luckily my store does it right: all mythics, rares, and foils are put in a pot at the end of the night. People then pick what they want in order of success. So first plays picks first card, etc. Really rewards the winners, and keeps people from cutting and running with their loot.
I'm not sure that addresses the cheating problem of adding cards from outside the draft. In fact, it might encourage it.
I used to host events with redrafting, and I don't think I'd do it.
It makes booster opening less exciting for people that like to rare draft.
If a skilled player can rare draft and still win, good for them.
If a less skilled player can get some good rares, good for them. It encourages them to return.
People have different handling habits. Getting a gummy chase at the end of the night isn't ideal.
Really, the only time redrafting has a benefit is if there are no other prizes. I think it's generally better for the LGS and attracting new players if people ante up a couple bucks and get some real prizes.
You can make the same point without sounding like a judgmental ass. I don't even like redrafts, but why SHOULD you get to play poorly and get a better prize then someone who didn't? You sound like you have some serious entitlement issues. You knew you were playing in a redraft when you signed up, so either don't sign up, play better, or deal with it.
And I'm sure you can make a good counterpoint without sounding judgemental as well.
I would love to just say no to redrafts, but the only two LGS' both redraft, and there really is no other choice if I want to draft, so it's either deal with it or don't draft, which I would not prefer, as it's my main gametype I like to play.
Breaking news.
There will be no Tibalt, Tamiyo, Tezzeret, Garruk, Chandra, Liliana, mini-Jace, big-Jace, Garruk again, or Sarkhan in Theros either.
There will also be no Black Lotus.
To be on topic, i work on fridays and drink a lot of water from the hard work. I get off at 6:40 and rush to my LGS for my FNM at 7:00. They start on the dot so i draft right when i get to the store. After drafting, what do you know, i have to take a piss.
Maybe you should think that people actually have to go to the bathroom? I wouldnt mind leaving my bag at the counter if someone has done this in the past but you shouldnt assume things of other people, especially something that drastic. I wouldnt want people to think im cheating when all i did was have a long day at work.
You can make the same point without sounding like a judgmental ass. I don't even like redrafts, but why SHOULD you get to play poorly and get a better prize then someone who didn't? You sound like you have some serious entitlement issues. You knew you were playing in a redraft when you signed up, so either don't sign up, play better, or deal with it.
1) because the cards you draft are not a prize. They are your deck.
2) Not everyone knows ahead of time that they will be redrafting. If the store doesn't explicitly announce ahead of time (say because its the standard practice at that store) than a new player who shows up to draft won't know.
Suffice to say if I am ever in a sanctioned draft where I find out there is a redraft after I have drafted the cards, I'm dropping and leaving with what I drafted. If I find out beforehand I'm asking for my money back, and leaving.
Redrafting is great for drafting with friends if you want to have some sort of prize and not pay more. Redrafting is terrible for actual tournaments.
Well, now that we're sufficiently miles away from the original topic, I'll shutter it. No need to devolve this into a "rights and wrongs of redrafting" thread.
I'm not a fan of this. I built my deck and took the cards I needed for it now you're telling me someone else gets them? Do you do it for uncommons and commons to then?
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Most stores don't do that, since very few people care about which commons/uncommons they get and the few money uncommons that may be in a set aren't worth a much longer redraft process. Though some places redraft any foils opened, including commons/uncommons. Yes, you took the cards you needed for your deck, but that was a limited deck. It's unlikely to translate into anything usable in constructed.
I guess I wasn't too clear with my post but it was more of a rhetorical question. I pulled cards I wanted and having to repick them at the end of the night makes no sense unless we redo the entire booster because it makes the cards I originally pulled worthless if I'm not getting what I choose initially.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
It does not punish those who don't win.
It rewards those who do win. There's a difference.
When you go to a pre-release, and the winner gets a ton of packs and the people at the very bottom get nothing, are they being punished for losing?
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
It makes for a better draft because you won't pick the Temporal Mastery you opened pack 3 when you're solidly RG. Instead you'll take some other card that makes your deck better.
Not redrafting means people will be bad and take cards for their monetary value and not for their deck.
And sometimes that's ok, I do realise that not everyone wants to be good at the game.
[Candidly insert story about famous pro who passed Baneslayer Angel in a draft.]
On-topic: As long as they finish construction before leaving, then it should be fine. If they immediately take their bag and pool into the loo, then that seems a bit cheaty.
But, there is a certain amount of trust that is needed for these events to work and still be fun. That's why breaking it usually results in some sort of ban from the store.
Furthermore, had they not redrafted, the loser could have gotten the dread slaver, the griselbrand he pulled, and then traded off the temporal mastery he opened pack 1 pick one and then left unused.
Except that taking cards so other people don't use them is a strategy to employ.
And also redistributing cards does punish those who lost because you're rewarding the winnner by taking the loser's card. Rewarding the winner would be giving them something not used outside of the tournament.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Yeah, but it isn't the loser's card in this scenario. The loser was allowed to play with it, but ownership of the rares/mythics isn't determined until the end.
This system also makes for a much better draft environment. People pass rares and mythics that they aren't going to play with.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Yes, and he lost, so he doesn't deserve to have better prizes than the winner. The scenario you're describing sounds horrible - somebody in last place goes home with $30 in prizes, while the winner maybe gets a couple packs as a prize?
Taking cards so other people don't use them is A) ineffective (see the starred hatedraft thread in the limited forum) and B) you can still do that with a rare redraft, you just don't get to keep the card. If you don't want to face Champion of Lambholdt, you can take it Pack 3 Pick 1, you just won't keep it at the end.
It's not the loser's card until the end of the draft. The loser is using it in a deck, but it isn't their card in a redraft system. If I lend you my Legacy deck for a tournament, are you going to complain at the end that I'm taking your cards when I take it back?
which generates more interest, since everyone can get something good, which means more people can play (more pods), which means better prize support, which means first place can go home with more packs. Good for everyone.
And I've never come in behind 2nd place in a draft. Redrafting is bad.
in most cases yes, but even ignoring that, what if I'm playing blue and should pick the temporal mastery, but I still can't keep it if I get 2nd place?
No, but then I didn't pay money for your deck. I did however pay money for 3 packs of cards. When the prizes I end up getting are akin to getting ****ty repacks, (since that is what they are), I'm going to complain..
My LGS simply does pack per win for drafts. It seems to make the most people happy and as such result in the most drafts.
The truth is that if you have cheaters in your midst then it's up to the store to try and suss it out..possibly have people who leave put their deck up front. See if you get a reaction from them. That's a good way to find out.
So you've never come in lower than 2nd place, but your prizes are akin to "****ty repacks"? I don't think you're being honest here, as second place in any draft I've seen will get you a high-quality money rare as your first pick (not to mention the unlikelihood of consistently doing that well).
What if I never open a Temporal Mastery and win every draft and Joe Q. Scrub opens one every draft, picks it no matter what color he's in, and goes 0-3? Does he really deserve all of those?
I don't think redrafting drives away new players either, because both stores I draft at use redrafting and neither has any trouble getting a large number of players every week. The kind of players redrafting would drive away aren't the kind you want to play against anyway.
We don't redraft, we get pack winnings, I was speaking hypothetically. I generally get 4 packs for first, 2 for second in an 8 man pod, in some cases we do 6/3, depends on the store owner's mood.
Also, I'm en exactly that position. During the AVR prerelease, I went 4/0 in the sealed prerelease, and in our top 8 draft I went 3/0/1 (split final round), went home with 6 packs from sealed, 3 from draft, 10 from winning the draft, 4 from going 4/0 (we had a pack per win for the sealed, but no real prize pool unless you drafted), and 2 from a misc giveaway, so 25 packs in total (fro 25 dollars no less!) and I opened exactly 0 mythics. My best pull was arguably a terminus. Was I still happy? Yes, because I went home witha lot more value than the guy who opened temporal mastery in sealed and proceeded to go 0/4, simply because I got SO MUCH MORE product. (3x in fact)
Well, you are opening 2-3x the packs he is, so you should end up making the same amount of money in the long run. Now look at it from his point of view, if you do repacks. Every time you play he opens a money rare, but can never keep them. He stops coming, now you don't have enough people to play.
Then you are lucky, the vast majority of people I talk to here and irl are vehemently against redrafting, as it takes away what is (or seems to be) rightfully mine, and gives it to someone else.
And also, redrafting sucks...tried it a while back and my LGS lost a lot of customers. They stopped doing it and now the number of players are back up to what they once were. I look at it like this: if a player in RG drafts a Temporal Mastery, fine by me! That's one less relevant card in their 40 I'll have to worry about.
The above few sentences are about as serious as the dude who referenced the bubble bath with home grown loofah sponges. Who knew loofahs grew on trees? How unreal is that?
Honestly, if a player is suspected of cheating, there are enough people around where we can have someone (perhaps the TO, judge, worker, w.e.) "watch" their draft and just make sure everything goes smoothly.
The funny part is that I didn't cheat at all. To me, there's no point in cheating in Draft because if you cheat and lose, that would really suck. Cheating wouldn't guarantee anything unless you did something so obvious. Most of the time, the cards I would get were passed. I did happen to open an interesting number of Vampire Nighthawks and Day of Judgments. However, the role players in my decks were mostly passed to me.
It seems like the owner thought that I really wasn't a good player. Even when he knew that I top 8'd PTQs and other big tournaments, he still thought I was cheating. He never came out and said it, but I just had the feeling.
I just honestly think it was a case of being on fire at that time and understanding the format. My rating went to 1950 during that time, but after that time, it settled closer to 1850, so admittedly I didn't do too well in other Limited formats. I just felt like he was discounting my skill as a player simply because I beat a few players that he considers to be really good (admittedly they are).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)AVR Release, we have 11 people. During the draft I get a hold of Entreat the Angels, Cavern of Souls, and 5 other not notable rares/holos. I did kinda poopy (like somewhere near 6-9th) and the best card I got was Killing Wave because our pool was so bad. The best cards were Entreat, Cavern, and Bonfire.
So it becomes the fact that the 30-year-old overweight neckbeards who live in their mom's basement eating Hot Pockets and playing WoW all day get the good cards cause they have no life outside Magic, whereas the people who can't catch a break get utter crap and end up wasting money on a bad draft. If anything, I could have kept Entreat and gotten some money out of the draft (Cavern was passed).
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(W/B) Teysa, Orzhov Scion (W/B)
G Devoted G
(U/R) Scramblefun (U/R)
(W/U) Heh, Birbs (W/U)
You can make the same point without sounding like a judgmental ass. I don't even like redrafts, but why SHOULD you get to play poorly and get a better prize then someone who didn't? You sound like you have some serious entitlement issues. You knew you were playing in a redraft when you signed up, so either don't sign up, play better, or deal with it.
Well, you are correct that if you know what you're playing is a redraft and you choose to play in it you sort of forfeited rights to complain all shocked about what happened...
BUT:
Most draft tournaments you literally are paying for the packs that you open, which is why redrafts are kinda crappy. So basically I'm paying for three packs and someone else gets to grab any money I get unless I win? That's completely unfair since draft is pretty much a lottery anyway (though not as bad as sealed).
BUT (again):
Since I feel this way I don't go playing in redraft tournaments, because if I did I really wouldn't have any leg to stand on, since I entered knowing what it was.
I'm not sure that addresses the cheating problem of adding cards from outside the draft. In fact, it might encourage it.
I used to host events with redrafting, and I don't think I'd do it.
And I'm sure you can make a good counterpoint without sounding judgemental as well.
I would love to just say no to redrafts, but the only two LGS' both redraft, and there really is no other choice if I want to draft, so it's either deal with it or don't draft, which I would not prefer, as it's my main gametype I like to play.
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(W/B) Teysa, Orzhov Scion (W/B)
G Devoted G
(U/R) Scramblefun (U/R)
(W/U) Heh, Birbs (W/U)
Maybe you should think that people actually have to go to the bathroom? I wouldnt mind leaving my bag at the counter if someone has done this in the past but you shouldnt assume things of other people, especially something that drastic. I wouldnt want people to think im cheating when all i did was have a long day at work.
1) because the cards you draft are not a prize. They are your deck.
2) Not everyone knows ahead of time that they will be redrafting. If the store doesn't explicitly announce ahead of time (say because its the standard practice at that store) than a new player who shows up to draft won't know.
Suffice to say if I am ever in a sanctioned draft where I find out there is a redraft after I have drafted the cards, I'm dropping and leaving with what I drafted. If I find out beforehand I'm asking for my money back, and leaving.
Redrafting is great for drafting with friends if you want to have some sort of prize and not pay more. Redrafting is terrible for actual tournaments.
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)