The vast majority of my token usage is from cheap cards with the P/T, name and creature type written on the back of the card. I would love to fully outfit my decks with the necessary tokens, but that's kind of far down my list of stuff to do with my time, heh. If anyone tried to ***** me out of a non-REL game for not having the right tokens, I will happily scoop and not play with them anymore. Semantics are not a reason to hate someone out.
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This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
I only really give a **** if it's an extremely complicated boardstate and all they're using is dice for tokens. hell, for the longest time I've carried around a few pokemon cards to use as tokens. Totodiles for general purpose, a Golem for Blade Splicer, and an Onyx and Steelix for Wurmcoil Engine.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
I played G/W tokens before DKA and I play B/W tokens now and there is no way I would play without the Tokens cards just for board state. I have one of the ultra pro magnetic large boxes that has plenty of room for my sleeved 75 and 20-30 tokens. The only token I don't have right now is a Sorin Emblem but those are like 3 bucks a pop and I didn't buy one pack of DKA just singles (yeah im one of them, just bye singles for standard (online) and have 0 trades my LSG and players love me Lol)
To bounce off of what others have said -- as long as it's clear what each thing is representing, it doesn't matter what is being used as a token.
True story -- I was judging a feature match for a SCG Open about a month ago. When the camera match ended, we were looking to see if one of the other matches could possibly get moved to camera. We determined that it wasn't possible. I stayed in the feature area and watched the end of the remaining match. One of the players asked if I'd sit down with them and watch and I obliged. Pretty soon, I realized why he asked this -- his opponent had countless tokens on the board, but they were all dice and it was next to impossible to determine what was going on. I grabbed the tokens that SCG provides for the camera match and replaced the dice with tokens, then told the player that he had to get something better than what he was using because it was too confusing.
IMO, if you spent $500 on your deck, it will NOT hurt you financially to spend two dollars on some tokens your deck uses. At 10 cents each, you get 20 tokens, which is 16 lingering souls Spirits and 4 Human tokens for Gather the Townsfolk. All of which have backsides that can be used as Sorin Emblems(Preferably under Sorin), Golem tokens, Beast Tokens, or more Human tokens.
Heck, most people would probably give you the Spirit/Human tokens, and you would only need to buy SorEmb/Golem/whatever else your deck uses.
No one is expecting you to make ExarchTwin tokens, but either get some tokens, or use something that we can clearly tell what it is and if its tapped/untapped. Its hard to tell if your coins are tapped, or your Burger King wrapper, or if the Wolf token you have is really a Wolf from Garruk or a token copy of my Frost Titan.
tl;dr: Spend $2 and get a decent amount of tokens, or make do with coreset lands and sharpies.
tl;dr: Spend $2 and get a decent amount of tokens, or make do with coreset lands and sharpies.
This. 100 times this. Like I said, I don't care if you use official WotC tokens or not, but dice and beads are not easily recognizable as tapped/untapped, and if you have multiple types of tokens then it starts to make for a very unclear gamestate. You need each "token" to say color, creature type, power/toughness, and any abilities it has. Dice might fly at the kitchen table, but at regular REL or higher, I want to know the exact gamestate. 1/1s need to be distinguishable (remember - Human Frailty is a card in AVR and I kinda need to know if its a 1/1 flying spirit or a 1/1 human).
I usually carry the tokens that are in standard around with me. Something about representing the tokens I play with actual cards makes me keep it updated.
I use golems, spirits, and a bunch more in my EDH decks and if my opponent needs em I offer em. If there are more than 1 type of token, I'd insist that we use token cards, but i haven't had any issues with it.
i love tokens and have hundreds of them. if i know my deck makes them i will have at least 2 + dice to represent tapped/untapped and the number of each. i try to have more for claritys sake but sometimes when my buddies endless ranks goes unchecked in our emperor games theres not enough room for 30 2/2 zombies so i adjust. i will loan them out to people or even give them away to new players (a new kid at my lgs was so excited to have a real token for his throne of empires deck) but i will never demand it unless someone is trying to intentionally clutter or misrepresent the board
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You need each "token" to say color, creature type, power/toughness, and any abilities it has.
I'd settle for a card-shaped object with the name written on it, unless my opponent has ways to make two different tokens with the same name, in which case the card-shaped object needs to distinguish the two somehow.
Usually, once my opponent has played a card that makes tokens, I can remember what the tokens do (or look back and read the card that made them); I'm just interested in the current state of them.
If you are playing at a FnM do you let dice slide for tokens or do you demand that your opponent use appropriate token cards for his or her deck?
I've seen quite a lot of crazy things used as tokens and as loyalty counters for planswalkers, from skittles, coins, pieces of paper, other food items (M&M's, Reese's Pieces, Starbursts, cookies, etc) to cigarettes, cigars, dip cans, liters, monster energy drink cans, empty or full, dice and card sleeves. Most of the time it doesn't really bother me unless they are playing some kind of token deck that has more then one type of token it produces, then I'd like them to have the appropriate token. Most that do play such decks at my LGS tend to, but don't seem to have enough of the tokens to play out which gets to me even more as they tend to put dice on top of them saying how many exist and it can get confusing from time to time in long drawn out games where you think it's one token with +1/+1 counters on it. Either way I tend to forgive as it can sometimes be hard to find enough of some tokens without cracking packs / boxes. The only one that actually gets to me is people playing Wurmcoil Engine and not just making Lifelink / Deathtouch tokens (I wouldn't pay $3-4 a piece either) instead of putting to dice in, sometimes the same color and doing a lifelink, deathtouch charade and trying to pull something.
I had fun today - I used my little pony toys as tokens. It made attacking for the win very satisfying.
I like this idea.
You need something that can tap, so dice probably aren't the best, but even using a backwards card should be fine. If you need different tokens, then make sure they're different.
Honestly, I find it kinda funny when people use pokemon cards or something else for tokens. Token cards are nice, but it's no big deal if you don't have them.
Once during a laidback Legacy tournament for a prize I don't recall, my opponent called for his brother and told him to, if I recall adequately, "Be a Goblin token." I was using a deck that involved Minion Reflector and Broodmate Dragon, so not to be outdone I convinced a young lady learning how to play Magic at another table to act as a dragon token. This continued on each side until everyone who wasn't playing stood across from each other, pretending to be a goblin or dragon, as the gamestate dictated.
It was an entertaining spectacle, but we had to go back to paper and pencil after one of his goblins became a little overzealous and the young lady/dragon token took exception by actually kicking him in the shin.
I do, and I carry 5-6 of each token in standard for tourneys. its hard to tell what color dice or rules cards is what, and "tapped" dice = no go for me
Once during a laidback Legacy tournament for a prize I don't recall, my opponent called for his brother and told him to, if I recall adequately, "Be a Goblin token." I was using a deck that involved Minion Reflector and Broodmate Dragon, so not to be outdone I convinced a young lady learning how to play Magic at another table to act as a dragon token. This continued on each side until everyone who wasn't playing stood across from each other, pretending to be a goblin or dragon, as the gamestate dictated.
It was an entertaining spectacle, but we had to go back to paper and pencil after one of his goblins became a little overzealous and the young lady/dragon token took exception by actually kicking him in the shin.
This. 100 times this. Like I said, I don't care if you use official WotC tokens or not, but dice and beads are not easily recognizable as tapped/untapped, and if you have multiple types of tokens then it starts to make for a very unclear gamestate. You need each "token" to say color, creature type, power/toughness, and any abilities it has. Dice might fly at the kitchen table, but at regular REL or higher, I want to know the exact gamestate. 1/1s need to be distinguishable (remember - Human Frailty is a card in AVR and I kinda need to know if its a 1/1 flying spirit or a 1/1 human).
No, you need each token to be distinguishable, ergo, you need to be able to tell which token has which power/toughness/color/ability. And if you want to know the exact gamestate, feel free to ask. I am in fact required to answer.
As for how I represent tokens, I normally use sleeves or upsidedown cards, and in some cases (with lots of tokens) I have a 4 die method that makes everything clear. (2 d-6 in bottom right for original P/t, a d-20 in upper left for quantity of said token, and a d-whatever is needed in the middle for +1/+1 counters). Tis useful when playing ghave edh and you have weird 3/5 tokens from some set that was played before you joined the game.
But please, require me to have 1 physical card for each of my 37 tokens, most of which has 7 +1/+1 counters, and some of which have 9...
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
And if you want to know the exact gamestate, feel free to ask. I am in fact required to answer.
This is wrong. I am ALSO required to know the gamestate. Failure to maintain gamestate is a penalty on both parties. If I can't tell what your tokens are, then I can't maintain the gamestate. Make it clear to me.
But please, require me to have 1 physical card for each of my 37 tokens, most of which has 7 +1/+1 counters, and some of which have 9...
This question was originally about FNM, not about EDH. Kitchen table, I'm playing to have fun, so do your thing and I have no issue with it. At regular REL and up, when I have paid money to enter and there are prizes on the line, it is your job to make the gamestate clear, and I will not just "take your word for it" when I want to know everything about your creatures.
This is wrong. I am ALSO required to know the gamestate. Failure to maintain gamestate is a penalty on both parties. If I can't tell what your tokens are, then I can't maintain the gamestate. Make it clear to me.
And if you ask, I can answer, so that gamestate is maintained. It is the same thing as asking about cards in hand. It may be unclear to you fro simply looking at my side of the board, but I can easily answer your question.
This question was originally about FNM, not about EDH. Kitchen table, I'm playing to have fun, so do your thing and I have no issue with it. At regular REL and up, when I have paid money to enter and there are prizes on the line, it is your job to make the gamestate clear, and I will not just "take your word for it" when I want to know everything about your creatures.
I've run decks that make 37+ tokens at fnms (and up) before too.
If you don't want to simply 'take my word for it' then you shouldn't be playing magic at all. There is no difference between me lying about the quantity of spirit tokens I have and simply rolling the die up or adding another token to the pile. And yes, there are people that can easily do either of those things without you noticing. I can, I don't, I'm not an ass, but I can. Sure, if you want to provide me with tokens, and you are polite about it, I might use them. But trying to call a judge on me for not maintaining clear gamestate, when to both me and the judge the gamestate is clear won't get you anywhere, and won't make me like you anymore either.
The information is considered free, and the rules state that "Players may not represent derived or free information incorrectly." That does not mean that "players must represent derived or free information in the manner that their opponent requests." As long as I am not misrepresenting information (and in all the methods I've named, I'm not), I'm not breaking the rules. If on the other hand I did tell you the wrong thing, I'm breaking a rule (the same one as if I added an extra token to the stack, and both could also receive equivalent tournament error - player communication violation and cheating - fraud infractions, depending on the circumstances).
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
tl;dr Huntmaster will see play in sideboard, rarely mainboard, and if you disagree, sig this and feel free to rub it in my face when the time comes. 'Cause I want him to be maindeckable.
I have Star Wars: Jedi Knights cards as my tokens. I have stormtroopers for my Blade Splicer Golems and a Jawa for my Batterskull
But as far as I'm concerned, if you play a serious amounts of tokens, you need to have some sort of marked tokens. They could be basic lands markered, or official tokens, or anything really, but if it says 1/1 white spirit with flying, and can be differentiated between a 2/2 green wolf, I'm fine with it
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I use glass beads of differing color, size, as well as dice to represent my tokens.
True story -- I was judging a feature match for a SCG Open about a month ago. When the camera match ended, we were looking to see if one of the other matches could possibly get moved to camera. We determined that it wasn't possible. I stayed in the feature area and watched the end of the remaining match. One of the players asked if I'd sit down with them and watch and I obliged. Pretty soon, I realized why he asked this -- his opponent had countless tokens on the board, but they were all dice and it was next to impossible to determine what was going on. I grabbed the tokens that SCG provides for the camera match and replaced the dice with tokens, then told the player that he had to get something better than what he was using because it was too confusing.
Heck, most people would probably give you the Spirit/Human tokens, and you would only need to buy SorEmb/Golem/whatever else your deck uses.
No one is expecting you to make ExarchTwin tokens, but either get some tokens, or use something that we can clearly tell what it is and if its tapped/untapped. Its hard to tell if your coins are tapped, or your Burger King wrapper, or if the Wolf token you have is really a Wolf from Garruk or a token copy of my Frost Titan.
tl;dr: Spend $2 and get a decent amount of tokens, or make do with coreset lands and sharpies.
This. 100 times this. Like I said, I don't care if you use official WotC tokens or not, but dice and beads are not easily recognizable as tapped/untapped, and if you have multiple types of tokens then it starts to make for a very unclear gamestate. You need each "token" to say color, creature type, power/toughness, and any abilities it has. Dice might fly at the kitchen table, but at regular REL or higher, I want to know the exact gamestate. 1/1s need to be distinguishable (remember - Human Frailty is a card in AVR and I kinda need to know if its a 1/1 flying spirit or a 1/1 human).
I use golems, spirits, and a bunch more in my EDH decks and if my opponent needs em I offer em. If there are more than 1 type of token, I'd insist that we use token cards, but i haven't had any issues with it.
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I'd settle for a card-shaped object with the name written on it, unless my opponent has ways to make two different tokens with the same name, in which case the card-shaped object needs to distinguish the two somehow.
Usually, once my opponent has played a card that makes tokens, I can remember what the tokens do (or look back and read the card that made them); I'm just interested in the current state of them.
I've seen quite a lot of crazy things used as tokens and as loyalty counters for planswalkers, from skittles, coins, pieces of paper, other food items (M&M's, Reese's Pieces, Starbursts, cookies, etc) to cigarettes, cigars, dip cans, liters, monster energy drink cans, empty or full, dice and card sleeves. Most of the time it doesn't really bother me unless they are playing some kind of token deck that has more then one type of token it produces, then I'd like them to have the appropriate token. Most that do play such decks at my LGS tend to, but don't seem to have enough of the tokens to play out which gets to me even more as they tend to put dice on top of them saying how many exist and it can get confusing from time to time in long drawn out games where you think it's one token with +1/+1 counters on it. Either way I tend to forgive as it can sometimes be hard to find enough of some tokens without cracking packs / boxes. The only one that actually gets to me is people playing Wurmcoil Engine and not just making Lifelink / Deathtouch tokens (I wouldn't pay $3-4 a piece either) instead of putting to dice in, sometimes the same color and doing a lifelink, deathtouch charade and trying to pull something.
I like this idea.
You need something that can tap, so dice probably aren't the best, but even using a backwards card should be fine. If you need different tokens, then make sure they're different.
Honestly, I find it kinda funny when people use pokemon cards or something else for tokens. Token cards are nice, but it's no big deal if you don't have them.
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It was an entertaining spectacle, but we had to go back to paper and pencil after one of his goblins became a little overzealous and the young lady/dragon token took exception by actually kicking him in the shin.
I lost that game, but no regrets.
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No, you need each token to be distinguishable, ergo, you need to be able to tell which token has which power/toughness/color/ability. And if you want to know the exact gamestate, feel free to ask. I am in fact required to answer.
As for how I represent tokens, I normally use sleeves or upsidedown cards, and in some cases (with lots of tokens) I have a 4 die method that makes everything clear. (2 d-6 in bottom right for original P/t, a d-20 in upper left for quantity of said token, and a d-whatever is needed in the middle for +1/+1 counters). Tis useful when playing ghave edh and you have weird 3/5 tokens from some set that was played before you joined the game.
But please, require me to have 1 physical card for each of my 37 tokens, most of which has 7 +1/+1 counters, and some of which have 9...
This is wrong. I am ALSO required to know the gamestate. Failure to maintain gamestate is a penalty on both parties. If I can't tell what your tokens are, then I can't maintain the gamestate. Make it clear to me.
This question was originally about FNM, not about EDH. Kitchen table, I'm playing to have fun, so do your thing and I have no issue with it. At regular REL and up, when I have paid money to enter and there are prizes on the line, it is your job to make the gamestate clear, and I will not just "take your word for it" when I want to know everything about your creatures.
And if you ask, I can answer, so that gamestate is maintained. It is the same thing as asking about cards in hand. It may be unclear to you fro simply looking at my side of the board, but I can easily answer your question.
I've run decks that make 37+ tokens at fnms (and up) before too.
If you don't want to simply 'take my word for it' then you shouldn't be playing magic at all. There is no difference between me lying about the quantity of spirit tokens I have and simply rolling the die up or adding another token to the pile. And yes, there are people that can easily do either of those things without you noticing. I can, I don't, I'm not an ass, but I can. Sure, if you want to provide me with tokens, and you are polite about it, I might use them. But trying to call a judge on me for not maintaining clear gamestate, when to both me and the judge the gamestate is clear won't get you anywhere, and won't make me like you anymore either.
The information is considered free, and the rules state that "Players may not represent derived or free information incorrectly." That does not mean that "players must represent derived or free information in the manner that their opponent requests." As long as I am not misrepresenting information (and in all the methods I've named, I'm not), I'm not breaking the rules. If on the other hand I did tell you the wrong thing, I'm breaking a rule (the same one as if I added an extra token to the stack, and both could also receive equivalent tournament error - player communication violation and cheating - fraud infractions, depending on the circumstances).
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I either use Justin Bieber trading cards for tokens or Pokemon cards, people generally get a kick out of it.
This is MUCH worse - you should never use sideboard cards, or other magic cards as tokens, unless maybe if you put them in different sleeves
But even then - a half-eaten grape >>>>> a magic card
But as far as I'm concerned, if you play a serious amounts of tokens, you need to have some sort of marked tokens. They could be basic lands markered, or official tokens, or anything really, but if it says 1/1 white spirit with flying, and can be differentiated between a 2/2 green wolf, I'm fine with it
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