Most of the replies in this topic are just depressing. Do people seriously not understand that institutional/structural sexism and male privledge exist? That marginalizing a marginalized group because they are marginalized already is a tautology? That no one actually called you yourself sexist, so there's no need to get personally defensive?
DAILY EFFECTS OF MALE PRIVILEDGE WHEN PLAYING MAGIC:*
I can, if I wish, play a game of Magic against someone of my own gender most of the time if not all of the time.
I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my gender.
I can go to a Magic-related event alone and feel well-assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
I can read a tournament report and see people of my gender widely represented.
When I am told about the history of the game, I am shown that people of my gender made it what it is.
I can be pretty sure of having my opinions respected among a group in which I am the only member of my gender.
I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which she is the only member of her gender.
I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic sexism for their own protection.
I can speak to a predominantly male group without putting my gender on trial.
I can play well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my gender.
I am never asked to speak for all the people of my gender.
I can remain oblivious of the language, thought, sign systems, history, and customs of individuals who are not my own gender without specific negative consequences.
I can criticize someone or ask basic questions without fear of reprisal based on my gender or fear of being seen as an outsider.
I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my gender.
I can go home from a tournament or Magic event feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another gender, or a program centering on gender, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting even if my colleagues disagree with me.
If I declare there is a gender issue at hand, or there isn't a gender issue at hand, my gender will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of another gender will have.
I can choose to ignore developments in activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
My gender gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other gender.
I am not made acutely aware that my physical fitness or hygene will be taken as a reflection on my gender.
I can worry about sexism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had sexist overtones.
Should I want to further develop my skills, I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps.
I can do poorly in a tournament without having my placing reflect on my gender.
If I have low credibility as a Magic theorist, I can be sure that my gender is not the problem.
If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for my thoughts on male privilege.
*If only I could take credit for this. It is based on a piece regarding institutional racism by Peggy Macintosh, available here.
Totally done trying to inject sense into this topic, but this post was excellent.
Also, aside from the quoted post, anyone trying to 'define' what 'actually is' sexist should go down the above checklist and ask, "hrm, does this statement actually make sense or am I just being contrarian?"
This thread, moreso than any other in the history of the site, has just plain disgusted me. Who cares about the art, the art is a dead issue because WoTC already said their peace on it. What I do care about is about certain posts made here showcasing how members 'really feel' about women.
Yes, some are troll accounts, some people are saying things for shock value, but some people actually believe what they are saying.
Thank you people trying to keep the discussion civil, but this thread is just too ridiculous for words.
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Yes, some are troll accounts, some people are saying things for shock value, but some people actually believe what they are saying.
It's frightening on some level that in 2012 some males can't see that male privilege exists.
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88-352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) was a landmark piece of legislation in the United States that outlawed major forms of discrimination against African Americans and women, including racial segregation.
"Why do women and African Americans get their own act? Totally unfair!"
This thread is full of males defending male privilege. Empathy, anyone?
As a white male who has never really experienced a lifetime of discrimination, I feel that political correctness has run amok!
How dare anyone try to stifle my right to say what I want, watch what I want, and do what I want.
This the essence of privilege. Someone trying to disrupt and say, "
hey don't say sexist/racist things. This thing is sexist/racist to me as a woman / person of color /etc." .
WHOA WHOA WHOA. Buddy. Ever heard of the First Amendment? Stop trying to stifle free speech! You're just so obsessed with political correctness!
Totally done trying to inject sense into this topic, but this post was excellent.
Also, aside from the quoted post, anyone trying to 'define' what 'actually is' sexist should go down the above checklist and ask, "hrm, does this statement actually make sense or am I just being contrarian?"
This thread, moreso than any other in the history of the site, has just plain disgusted me. Who cares about the art, the art is a dead issue because WoTC already said their peace on it. What I do care about is about certain posts made here showcasing how members 'really feel' about women.
Yes, some are troll accounts, some people are saying things for shock value, but some people actually believe what they are saying.
Thank you people trying to keep the discussion civil, but this thread is just too ridiculous for words.
At what point does someone decide that everything is equal. Is some omnipresent, god-like being going to split the heaven and earth and decree that now all people, regardless of race, age, gender and any other characteristic are now equal. That is the problem I have with this checklist and the whole movement at this point in general.
If a white person cries fowl about something in the same realm, due to something like Affirmative Action/Title IX/Racial Quotas, it is being they are just trying to blame the institution. The double standard has become wildly outrageous. White people can face discrimination and it is considered okay due to the past or people throw this "White Privilege" term out. When is equality going to be about equality and not about super-equality?
Don't get me wrong, if you find me something that infringes on a persons rights, be them white/black/man/woman/etc I will be there to defend them. Isn't that where we should be at, instead of selecting our "pet" group and defending that?
As a white male who has never really experienced a lifetime of discrimination, I feel that political correctness has run amok!
How dare anyone try to stifle my right to say what I want, watch what I want, and do what I want.
This the essence of privilege. Someone trying to disrupt and say, "
hey don't say sexist/racist things. This thing is sexist/racist to me as a woman / person of color /etc." .
WHOA WHOA WHOA. Buddy. Ever heard of the First Amendment? Stop trying to stifle free speech! You're just so obsessed with political correctness!
This sums up your position pretty well. You are unwilling to consider the needs or concerns of others and hide behind the first amendment as a way to spout your own bull**** without having to listen to others' opinions.
No one is stifling your right to say what you want, just like you damn well better not stifle my right to tell you what a bigoted, ignorant moron you're coming across as in most of this thread.
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This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
Your privilege blinds you to what is actual, legitimate, emotionally scarring discrimination. Strictly speaking going to aschool that didn't have a Men's lacrosse team is miles apart from being raped and living in a culture where the mental duress placed on you by society makes it so that only 16 percent of the time, you will even be able to muster the courage to report it, let alone get a conviction for the S.O.B.
This sums up your position pretty well. You are unwilling to consider the needs or concerns of others and hide behind the first amendment as a way to spout your own bull**** without having to listen to others' opinions.
No one is stifling your right to say what you want, just like you damn well better not stifle my right to tell you what a bigoted, ignorant moron you're coming across as in most of this thread.
I.. a.. who what now? Who is directed at? Who is bigoted against who now? If this is another one of this flip-around-you're-the-real-racist-sexist against white males again, I'm thoroughly tired of that bullcrap, honestly.
I'm a white male, just fyi... I just recognize the problems I have to deal with in my own life come mostly from internal struggles rather than external, societal struggles. I recognize that there are a number of things that my friends have had to go through in their lives that I never did, and this experience makes their perceptions of life vastly different from mine, so my perspective on the ways things are for some people is often one of , well, sheer ignorance.
At what point does someone decide that everything is equal. Is some omnipresent, god-like being going to split the heaven and earth and decree that now all people, regardless of race, age, gender and any other characteristic are now equal. That is the problem I have with this checklist and the whole movement at this point in general.
If a white person cries fowl about something in the same realm, due to something like Affirmative Action/Title IX/Racial Quotas, it is being they are just trying to blame the institution. The double standard has become wildly outrageous. White people can face discrimination and it is considered okay due to the past or people throw this "White Privilege" term out. When is equality going to be about equality and not about super-equality?
Don't get me wrong, if you find me something that infringes on a persons rights, be them white/black/man/woman/etc I will be there to defend them. Isn't that where we should be at, instead of selecting our "pet" group and defending that?
The external issues are you bring up are red herring, though to be sure others have brought them up as well. It's true that white males can be discriminated against (though I would say that it's far less of a problem than it is for other groups) in certain situations, but what about in the context of MTG? When it comes to this game specifically, I think it's quite clear that there is indeed prejudice against women that makes it more difficult for them to enjoy or even get into the game.
e: Before someone tries to twist what I say (again) "less of a problem" does not mean that individual cases of something are not as bad, it means that something is not as been of a problem when taken in an aggregate sense.
The external issues are you bring up are red herring, though to be sure others have brought them up as well. It's true that white males can be discriminated against (though I would say that it's far less of a problem than it is for other groups) in certain situations, but what about in the context of MTG? When it comes to this game specifically, I think it's quite clear that there is indeed prejudice against women that makes it more difficult for them to enjoy or even get into the game.
Gotta agree with this. We have about 25 people play at our FNM. We have 3 or 4 girls tops. I don't know why this game appeals more to guys or makes women feel that they can't play it. My wife, who I'd love to come down to FNM with me, has no interest in the game. My daughter, who played when she was like 8, has totally lost interest in the game.
I don't know what it is. I'm not going to stereotype because I don't want to be looked at as "that kind of person" but something about this game is making it so that women, for the most part, don't want anything to do with it.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Your privilege blinds you to what is actual, legitimate, emotionally scarring discrimination. Strictly speaking going to aschool that didn't have a Men's lacrosse team is miles apart from being raped and living in a culture where the mental duress placed on you by society makes it so that only 16 percent of the time, you will even be able to muster the courage to report it, let alone get a conviction for the S.O.B.
I.. a.. who what now? Who is directed at? Who is bigoted against who now? If this is another one of this flip-around-you're-the-real-racist-sexist against white males again, I'm thoroughly tired of that bullcrap, honestly.
I'm a white male, just fyi... I just recognize the problems I have to deal with in my own life come mostly from internal struggles rather than external, societal struggles. I recognize that there are a number of things that my friends have had to go through in their lives that I never did, and this experience makes their perceptions of life vastly different from mine, so my perspective on the ways things are for some people is often one of , well, sheer ignorance.
Yeah, I think I had you confused with someone else earlier in the thread? (I blame those of you without avatars, haha) Was the post I quoted supposed to be satirical? Because it felt like it was further proding the coals with more antagonism. Maybe I misinterpreted, and I guess I'm projecting a little, because I feel like I've seen almost that exact post, but coming from the ****heads more often than the good guys.
Because equality in modern times doesn't start out on a fair and balanced playing field, and being cognizant of how we can make others lives more comfortable in regards to bigotry and hatred is a constantly shifting tapestry of difficult conversations and open-minded exchanges.
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Quote from slipknot72102 »
This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
But can you also assure us that it never happens to men(man on man, woman on man see "Girl with the dragon tatoo")? are you then going to expect the same treatment for men? Until you do your argument is self defeating, hypocritical and divisive.
Until you stand against all social injustice you shouldn't stand against any of it?
Really?
So until Native Americans also decry patriarchy, or African Americans decry the killing of Vincent Chin they just need to shut the hell up for "being divisive"?
That is one of the most asinine positions I've ever heard. ESPECIALLY since you're talking in hypotheticals. You have created a hypothetical situation in which you believe the other person would not be outraged and then called them a hypocrite based upon something you invented and could be completely wrong about.
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Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
Yeah, I think I had you confused with someone else earlier in the thread? (I blame those of you without avatars, haha) Was the post I quoted supposed to be satirical? Because it felt like it was further proding the coals with more antagonism. Maybe I misinterpreted, and I guess I'm projecting a little, because I feel like I've seen almost that exact post, but coming from the ****heads more often than the good guys.
It was sarcasm, the kind that can be misinterpreted over the internet because it's much easier to do in real life. It was meant to encapsulate/mock the mindset of people who consider human decency to be "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS RUN AMOK STIFLIN' MAH FREE SPEECH!!" So yeah we're cool. Matter of fact I should go get an avatar.
It was sarcasm, the kind that can be misinterpreted over the internet because it's much easier to do in real life. It was meant to encapsulate/mock the mindset of people who consider human decency to be "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS RUN AMOK STIFLIN' MAH FREE SPEECH!!" So yeah we're cool. Matter of fact I should go get an avatar.
The internet totally needs a <sarcasm> tag of some kind, I tell you whut. The second I saw your response I was like, "Damn, pretty sure he was being sarcastic," haha.
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Quote from Mark Rosewater »
In response to your Lightning Blast, I'll eat this burrito.
Quote from slipknot72102 »
This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
At what point does someone decide that everything is equal. Is some omnipresent, god-like being going to split the heaven and earth and decree that now all people, regardless of race, age, gender and any other characteristic are now equal. That is the problem I have with this checklist and the whole movement at this point in general.
If a white person cries fowl about something in the same realm, due to something like Affirmative Action/Title IX/Racial Quotas, it is being they are just trying to blame the institution. The double standard has become wildly outrageous. White people can face discrimination and it is considered okay due to the past or people throw this "White Privilege" term out. When is equality going to be about equality and not about super-equality?
They're equal when no one, anywhere, ever has to worry about them being equal. When men and women can look at that series of statements and their answers are identical. But that will never happen so long as people are ignorant or willfully obtuse about these things.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Until you stand against all social injustice you shouldn't stand against any of it?
Not what i'm saying at all. What i'm say if you stand up against one "social injustice" you can't ignore another one when its brought to your attention. A lot of people in this thread seem to think that it is ok.
Because equality in modern times doesn't start out on a fair and balanced playing field, and being cognizant of how we can make others lives more comfortable in regards to bigotry and hatred is a constantly shifting tapestry of difficult conversations and open-minded exchanges.
So i'm supposed to pay for crimes i didn't commit. If my father murdered someone and got away with it does that mean that i should have to pay for the murder he committed? Besides what your describing can't be done. Because instead of the black or women "have nots" getting the short end of the stick the poor/mid class white males get the short end of the stick, through no fault of their own. Not the "privledge white males".
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Please explain yourself very carefully and very slowly because what you just asked was "Why is it okay to sometimes give marginalized minorities special treatment in order to help them get closer to social equality?" and that is a very serious can of worms.
Not what i'm saying at all. What i'm say if you stand up against one "social injustice" you can't ignore another one when its brought to your attention. A lot of people in this thread seem to think that it is ok.
No, a lot of people in your fictional hypothetical seem to think it is okay. Cute that you invented strawpersons to argue against. Must have been an easy fight!
Also, hilariously you just said exactly what I accused you of saying. You think if someone thinks social injustice is wrong they must call it out everywhere all the time or they're hypocritical. Rather than isolating instances for incremental gain. Your argument is literally 'you must always be against all social inequality or you're just a hypocrite. MLK was a hypocrite because he wasn't a feminist marxist.'
So i'm supposed to pay for crimes i didn't commit. If my father murdered someone and got away with it does that mean that i should have to pay for the murder he committed? Besides what your describing can't be done. Because instead of people being the black or women "have nots" getting the short end of the stick the poor/mid class white males get the short end of the stick, through no fault of their own. Not the "privledge white males".
First of all, privilege. There's no d. Second of all, equalizing the playing fields is NOT disadvantaging "white males [getting] the short end of the stick]. To think this is to presume that we already have a level playing field and we're intentionally disadvantaging whites for simply being white. Not what it really is, which is recognizing that whites ALREADY have a structural advantage that needs to be fixed. To prevent someone from accessing their privilege is NOT racism, it is NOT discrimination, and it most certainly is NOT bigotry.
The fact that white people cry "(reverse) racism" when their access to structural advantages is limited astounds me.
Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
So i'm supposed to pay for crimes i didn't commit. If my father murdered someone and got away with it does that mean that i should have to pay for the murder he committed? Besides what your describing can't be done. Because instead of people being the black or women "have nots" getting the short end of the stick the poor/mid class white males get the short end of the stick, through no fault of their own. Not the "privledge white males".
Yes, God forbid, some people might have to give up privilege for equality, and you clearly don't know what you're talking about - equality at the cost of another group is not equality.
Bardo suggested I stop quoting you, and he's right, and I'll be staying away from this thread now, because you're doing nothing but strawman baiting. You're choosing willful ignorance over a legitimate conversation, so that's your own stupid loss.
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Quote from Mark Rosewater »
In response to your Lightning Blast, I'll eat this burrito.
Quote from slipknot72102 »
This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
They're equal when no one, anywhere, ever has to worry about them being equal. When men and women can look at that series of statements and their answers are identical. But that will never happen so long as people are ignorant or willfully obtuse about these things.
With global social structure, is this goal even possible, and I mean realistically possible? So basically men's rights takes the backseat to female's right until this date which is, in all practicality, impossible to achieve?
I didn't quote the guy that said "less of a problem". I am pretty sure that same posted posted a defense that included "we can do multiple things at the same time", why not defend all problems equally, isn't that what equality is?
Yes, God forbid, some people might have to give up privilege for equality, and you clearly don't know what you're talking about - equality at the cost of another group is not equality.
Bardo suggested I stop quoting you, and he's right, and I'll be staying away from this thread now, because you're doing nothing but strawman baiting. You're choosing willful ignorance over a legitimate conversation, so that's your own stupid loss.
There is no point in arguing with him. He literally just constructs some sort of straw simulacrum of you that holds the opinions he wants you to have, so he can argue against it.
Please explain yourself very carefully and very slowly because what you just asked was "Why is it okay to sometimes give marginalized minorities special treatment in order to help them get closer to social equality?" and that is a very serious can of worms.
Because that isn't equal treatment. Because when does it stop. Because that is making me pay for crimes i did not commit. Because that only further exacerbates the problem, by creating more resentment and animosity. Because it violate the same law in the constitution that things like the end of women's suffrage violate. Pic one.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
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Because being sensitive of minority groups is such a problem.
It is when you have to give them special treatment, more so than the majority. Equality does not mean some groups get treated differently.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Sometimes you need to give groups special treatment to get them to the point of equality. Civil Rights, broheim.
Totally done trying to inject sense into this topic, but this post was excellent.
Also, aside from the quoted post, anyone trying to 'define' what 'actually is' sexist should go down the above checklist and ask, "hrm, does this statement actually make sense or am I just being contrarian?"
This thread, moreso than any other in the history of the site, has just plain disgusted me. Who cares about the art, the art is a dead issue because WoTC already said their peace on it. What I do care about is about certain posts made here showcasing how members 'really feel' about women.
Yes, some are troll accounts, some people are saying things for shock value, but some people actually believe what they are saying.
Thank you people trying to keep the discussion civil, but this thread is just too ridiculous for words.
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It's frightening on some level that in 2012 some males can't see that male privilege exists.
"Why do women and African Americans get their own act? Totally unfair!"
This thread is full of males defending male privilege. Empathy, anyone?
How dare anyone try to stifle my right to say what I want, watch what I want, and do what I want.
This the essence of privilege. Someone trying to disrupt and say, "
hey don't say sexist/racist things. This thing is sexist/racist to me as a woman / person of color /etc." .
WHOA WHOA WHOA. Buddy. Ever heard of the First Amendment? Stop trying to stifle free speech! You're just so obsessed with political correctness!
At what point does someone decide that everything is equal. Is some omnipresent, god-like being going to split the heaven and earth and decree that now all people, regardless of race, age, gender and any other characteristic are now equal. That is the problem I have with this checklist and the whole movement at this point in general.
If a white person cries fowl about something in the same realm, due to something like Affirmative Action/Title IX/Racial Quotas, it is being they are just trying to blame the institution. The double standard has become wildly outrageous. White people can face discrimination and it is considered okay due to the past or people throw this "White Privilege" term out. When is equality going to be about equality and not about super-equality?
Don't get me wrong, if you find me something that infringes on a persons rights, be them white/black/man/woman/etc I will be there to defend them. Isn't that where we should be at, instead of selecting our "pet" group and defending that?
This sums up your position pretty well. You are unwilling to consider the needs or concerns of others and hide behind the first amendment as a way to spout your own bull**** without having to listen to others' opinions.
No one is stifling your right to say what you want, just like you damn well better not stifle my right to tell you what a bigoted, ignorant moron you're coming across as in most of this thread.
I.. a.. who what now? Who is directed at? Who is bigoted against who now? If this is another one of this flip-around-you're-the-real-racist-sexist against white males again, I'm thoroughly tired of that bullcrap, honestly.
I'm a white male, just fyi... I just recognize the problems I have to deal with in my own life come mostly from internal struggles rather than external, societal struggles. I recognize that there are a number of things that my friends have had to go through in their lives that I never did, and this experience makes their perceptions of life vastly different from mine, so my perspective on the ways things are for some people is often one of , well, sheer ignorance.
The external issues are you bring up are red herring, though to be sure others have brought them up as well. It's true that white males can be discriminated against (though I would say that it's far less of a problem than it is for other groups) in certain situations, but what about in the context of MTG? When it comes to this game specifically, I think it's quite clear that there is indeed prejudice against women that makes it more difficult for them to enjoy or even get into the game.
e: Before someone tries to twist what I say (again) "less of a problem" does not mean that individual cases of something are not as bad, it means that something is not as been of a problem when taken in an aggregate sense.
Gotta agree with this. We have about 25 people play at our FNM. We have 3 or 4 girls tops. I don't know why this game appeals more to guys or makes women feel that they can't play it. My wife, who I'd love to come down to FNM with me, has no interest in the game. My daughter, who played when she was like 8, has totally lost interest in the game.
I don't know what it is. I'm not going to stereotype because I don't want to be looked at as "that kind of person" but something about this game is making it so that women, for the most part, don't want anything to do with it.
Why?
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Yeah, I think I had you confused with someone else earlier in the thread? (I blame those of you without avatars, haha) Was the post I quoted supposed to be satirical? Because it felt like it was further proding the coals with more antagonism. Maybe I misinterpreted, and I guess I'm projecting a little, because I feel like I've seen almost that exact post, but coming from the ****heads more often than the good guys.
Because equality in modern times doesn't start out on a fair and balanced playing field, and being cognizant of how we can make others lives more comfortable in regards to bigotry and hatred is a constantly shifting tapestry of difficult conversations and open-minded exchanges.
Until you stand against all social injustice you shouldn't stand against any of it?
Really?
So until Native Americans also decry patriarchy, or African Americans decry the killing of Vincent Chin they just need to shut the hell up for "being divisive"?
That is one of the most asinine positions I've ever heard. ESPECIALLY since you're talking in hypotheticals. You have created a hypothetical situation in which you believe the other person would not be outraged and then called them a hypocrite based upon something you invented and could be completely wrong about.
It was sarcasm, the kind that can be misinterpreted over the internet because it's much easier to do in real life. It was meant to encapsulate/mock the mindset of people who consider human decency to be "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS RUN AMOK STIFLIN' MAH FREE SPEECH!!" So yeah we're cool. Matter of fact I should go get an avatar.
The internet totally needs a <sarcasm> tag of some kind, I tell you whut. The second I saw your response I was like, "Damn, pretty sure he was being sarcastic," haha.
They're equal when no one, anywhere, ever has to worry about them being equal. When men and women can look at that series of statements and their answers are identical. But that will never happen so long as people are ignorant or willfully obtuse about these things.
Not what i'm saying at all. What i'm say if you stand up against one "social injustice" you can't ignore another one when its brought to your attention. A lot of people in this thread seem to think that it is ok.
So i'm supposed to pay for crimes i didn't commit. If my father murdered someone and got away with it does that mean that i should have to pay for the murder he committed? Besides what your describing can't be done. Because instead of the black or women "have nots" getting the short end of the stick the poor/mid class white males get the short end of the stick, through no fault of their own. Not the "privledge white males".
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Please explain yourself very carefully and very slowly because what you just asked was "Why is it okay to sometimes give marginalized minorities special treatment in order to help them get closer to social equality?" and that is a very serious can of worms.
ETA: Sorry, Bardo.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
No, a lot of people in your fictional hypothetical seem to think it is okay. Cute that you invented strawpersons to argue against. Must have been an easy fight!
Also, hilariously you just said exactly what I accused you of saying. You think if someone thinks social injustice is wrong they must call it out everywhere all the time or they're hypocritical. Rather than isolating instances for incremental gain. Your argument is literally 'you must always be against all social inequality or you're just a hypocrite. MLK was a hypocrite because he wasn't a feminist marxist.'
First of all, privilege. There's no d. Second of all, equalizing the playing fields is NOT disadvantaging "white males [getting] the short end of the stick]. To think this is to presume that we already have a level playing field and we're intentionally disadvantaging whites for simply being white. Not what it really is, which is recognizing that whites ALREADY have a structural advantage that needs to be fixed. To prevent someone from accessing their privilege is NOT racism, it is NOT discrimination, and it most certainly is NOT bigotry.
The fact that white people cry "(reverse) racism" when their access to structural advantages is limited astounds me.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/reverseracism.png/
Yes, God forbid, some people might have to give up privilege for equality, and you clearly don't know what you're talking about - equality at the cost of another group is not equality.
Bardo suggested I stop quoting you, and he's right, and I'll be staying away from this thread now, because you're doing nothing but strawman baiting. You're choosing willful ignorance over a legitimate conversation, so that's your own stupid loss.
With global social structure, is this goal even possible, and I mean realistically possible? So basically men's rights takes the backseat to female's right until this date which is, in all practicality, impossible to achieve?
I didn't quote the guy that said "less of a problem". I am pretty sure that same posted posted a defense that included "we can do multiple things at the same time", why not defend all problems equally, isn't that what equality is?
There is no point in arguing with him. He literally just constructs some sort of straw simulacrum of you that holds the opinions he wants you to have, so he can argue against it.
Because that isn't equal treatment. Because when does it stop. Because that is making me pay for crimes i did not commit. Because that only further exacerbates the problem, by creating more resentment and animosity. Because it violate the same law in the constitution that things like the end of women's suffrage violate. Pic one.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.