The copyright laws are specific as to prevent you from just printing copies at your local Kinko's to play with. Proxies (aside from tournaments where they are legal) are not legal in any tournament environment. Thus if you wanted to print a "proxy" of Jace, the Mind Sculptor. it'd be "illegal" but not for kitchen table magic (and if you're using JTMS in your kitchen table, you're messed up anyways :P)
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In theory: yes it's illegal. Making copies of copyright protected material is illegal. (There are a few exceptions though like making copies of something you already own for personal use. You could 'abuse' this to make a playset while only owning 1 copy)
In reality: nobody really cares. I highly doubt anyone will call you out on a proxy unless you are actively selling loads of them.
Making a proxies isn't illegal. I can wallpaper my house at home with Fake $ if I want. As soon as I try and pass it off as real is where it becomes illegal.
Go ahead and make your FOIL Black Lotus for your home game!
Also, I have heard of a few shops doing Vintage events with x # of proxies allowed per deck.
"Illegal" in the sense that you can't use them in sanctioned tournaments, or "illegal" in the sense that you would go to jail?
It's not "tournament legal" to use proxies. Some Vintage touraments allow proxies due to card availability issues, but those tournaments are not sanctioned by the DCI, so it's fine.
It's not illegal to make proxies; however, it is illegal to sell them, since the cards are protected under copyright law.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Making a proxies isn't illegal. I can wallpaper my house at home with Fake $ if I want. As soon as I try and pass it off as real is where it becomes illegal.
I am not sure about US Laws but for most Commonwealth countries, that is illegal. The Forgery and Counterfeiting act covers counterfeiting currencies with or without intention of passing it off as genuine or even by merely possessing it.
On topic, it is nigh unenforceable but it remains as one of those stuff which you should probably not do in front of any Wizards' legal staff.
Making a proxies isn't illegal. I can wallpaper my house at home with Fake $ if I want. As soon as I try and pass it off as real is where it becomes illegal.
Go ahead and make your FOIL Black Lotus for your home game!
Also, I have heard of a few shops doing Vintage events with x # of proxies allowed per deck.
Actually (and this is only American money but) if you print money that is not at least half sized or double sized it is illegal. Haven't you ever wondered why play money always looks so fake and is never anywhere near "real"size?
As some have said, printing any of the magic symbols,logos, or any magic artwork does violate the copyright but it really only becomes an issue if you attempt to profit from it. If you want to print from home to use for personal use, go ahead. No place like Kinkos should print any of the cards as that would make them legally responsible for whatever those prints get used for after and could be sued as a co-defendant.
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My belief is that it becomes illegal as soon as you try and pass it off as real.
i make proxies and use them, but i try and get the cards i proxied, i dont like using proxies forever. i also use them with high money cards and i keep the cards nearby in a screw case.
I think it's only illegal if you try to sell them as the real thing. Then it becomes less about copyright infringment as it does fraud. I doubt the proxy police are going to knock down your door if you're doing it for your own use though.
i was thinking about to create my own set of basic lands to play in tournaments, i think is maybe illegal but , what about if use a normal forest card and print a different art on it, i think that's legal its like altering the art by painting to me.
i was thinking about to create my own set of basic lands to play in tournaments, i think is maybe illegal but , what about if use a normal forest card and print a different art on it, i think that's legal its like altering the art by painting to me.
Several issues but lets see if I can hit them all.
1. you are using custom printed cards that may not be the same thickness even in sleeves and may then be considered "marked" by tournament standards.
2. The artwork isn't the only thing that's copyrighted, the mana symbols and card frame are also copyrighted and owned by Wizards of the Coast.
3.If you try to sell these new basic lands then you are still violating Wizards trademarks, if not then you still have the problem pointed out in 1.
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There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
Technically, I believe it's "illegal" if you don;t own the card. Not that anything will ever come of it.
If you own the card you can photocopy as many copies as you want for personal use legally. Any card I own worth anything substantial is in a binder safe at home and I xerox off about 30 copies of it to use in decks. Someone could walk away with every deck I own (16) and they'd have maybe $20 worth of cards. I thnk my keep at home binder is approaching the $5000 mark
So, this is what I took from all the replies, let me know if I'm correct or not:
It's legal in US law to create a proxy of a card you already have, if you don't sell them.
I think the main point there is the not selling them part. If you Xerox a card and put it in front of another card to use it as a proxy, even if you don't own the card, you're not going to get in trouble. If you show up to a sanctioned tournament doing this, that is against the rules and you will be penalized. I'm fairly certain America's police force has enough to deal with before they start worrying about people proxying Magic cards.
***Note: I am not a lawyer. Please do not use this as real legal advice.
Technically reproducing a card in proxy form (IE printing it, or otherwise creating) is copyright infringement. Writing "Jace The Mindsculpter" on a forest is not however. The plus side is wizards doesn't seem to care very much about it so long as you aren't trying to sell the proxy. Trying to actively sell fake cards however will probably land you in court.
That said most people make proxies of cards they don't own every so often, and in fact a number of people proxy cards to playtest before investing in them. Wizards only really cares if you're trying to make money off the fakes. So if you print up a full set of Innistrad and put it on ebay, you'll probably get a cease and desist letter at the most lenient, or more likely a lawsuit. If you're making some alternate art forests to run at FNM as long as you can't tell the card is different in anyway aside from looking at the art on the front of the card then it's fair game.
Likewise making tokens isn't copyright infringing unless you use something that they own a copyright on like mana symbols (if they want to copyright 1 they can rot because that's just retarded but I'll give them WUBRG and the hybrids and phybrids). So making your own Ooze token won't get you any flak, nor will writing "Black Lotus" on a basic land. You just can't play proxies in tournaments unless the TO specifically allows it. Which doesn't happen in anything but vintage and sometimes legacy generally.
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Though making proxies is technically illegal, it is nigh unenforceable. Just stick to personal use only and you should be fine. I own one Force of Will and use it in nine different decks, for instance.
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Technically reproducing a card in proxy form (IE printing it, or otherwise creating) is copyright infringement.
If this were the case or in any way enforced I think tcgplayer would be in trouble, but I haven't heard anything about that yet. When you search up a card, at the bottom of that card's page is a print proxy button with 1-4 proxies, however many you need.
If the question is whether or not proxying cards is legal then the answer is yes and no. no it isn't legal for most tournaments unless otherwise stated and you will get disqualified. It is Legal by law, counterfeiting would be illegal but you can't pass off a paper print out of a card as that card to anyone. Alternate art is also legal as long as it is that card.
You could probably even get away with selling proxies to your friends in the sense that you are selling someone the ink it took to print them off, but that's between you and that person and would be hard to enforce whether it's legal or not.
If this were the case or in any way enforced I think tcgplayer would be in trouble, but I haven't heard anything about that yet. When you search up a card, at the bottom of that card's page is a print proxy button with 1-4 proxies, however many you need.
If the question is whether or not proxying cards is legal then the answer is yes and no. no it isn't legal for most tournaments unless otherwise stated and you will get disqualified. It is Legal by law, counterfeiting would be illegal but you can't pass off a paper print out of a card as that card to anyone. Alternate art is also legal as long as it is that card.
You could probably even get away with selling proxies to your friends in the sense that you are selling someone the ink it took to print them off, but that's between you and that person and would be hard to enforce whether it's legal or not.
I don't mean taking it to kinkos and photo copying it or printing it onto computer paper I mean actually printing copies of the cards. Cardstock wise that is. Trying to pass them off as the real thing.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
Surprisingly, every one of you who have posted so far is wrong in some respect, or wrong entirely. Usually at least one person posts the right answer. Son, I am disappoint.
Making a proxy by copying the image of a card, etc, is INFRINGEMENT, but it may or may not be illegal. That is because an infringement is not illegal if it is done under fair use, as codified in law at 17 USC 107. The enforcement of fair use is determined as the dispute arises, with abundant case law out there to guide the court, such as Campbell v. Acuff-Rose, LA Times v. Free Republic, Kelly v. Arribasoft, MGM v. American Honda, and so on.
To the extent that it affects any of you, your use is likely, but not guaranteed, to be fair use if you are making and using the proxies for your own, personal, recreational use, and not distributing them either freely or by sale. Instances where people sell custom-painted proxies alongside ballast (a legitimate card, whether the real card the proxy is based on or not) are much less certain to be fair use, and in fact might not be, depending on a given court's assessment using the four-point balancing test from the statute. It is wisest NOT to get yourself into a situation where you might have to find out at the business end of a gavel whether your infringement was fair use or not!
EDIT: Whether you are trying to "pass it off as the real thing" could be evidence toward one of the elements in the four-point balancing test, but it is not the central element of a fair use determination. In practice, doing that falls under the criminal conduct category known as "uttering," which encompasses concepts such as forgery, counterfeiting, and other forms of fraud. Copyright is a civil issue, while uttering, being fraud, is a criminal issue. Create an obvious proxy and sell it, and Wizards of the Coast LLC may have a civil claim against you. Create a proxy that is intended to counterfeit the real thing, and WOTC doesn't even enter the picture -- the STATE may have a criminal CHARGE to lay against you. The More You Know (Tm).
Hope this helps!
/I am not your attorney. For legal advice get yourself an attorney, don't base a potentially life-changing decision on what you read on an internet message board.
As long as you dont try to pass them off as real, or try to sell them, there shouldnt be any problems with the law.
And the guy with the fake foil jace, I'd say it depends on your playgroup. I myself dont mind proxies as long as they look good and dont give them any ingame advantage. It's pretty much the same with my friends and we have an unspoken rule with it.
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In reality: nobody really cares. I highly doubt anyone will call you out on a proxy unless you are actively selling loads of them.
Go ahead and make your FOIL Black Lotus for your home game!
Also, I have heard of a few shops doing Vintage events with x # of proxies allowed per deck.
It's not "tournament legal" to use proxies. Some Vintage touraments allow proxies due to card availability issues, but those tournaments are not sanctioned by the DCI, so it's fine.
It's not illegal to make proxies; however, it is illegal to sell them, since the cards are protected under copyright law.
I am not sure about US Laws but for most Commonwealth countries, that is illegal. The Forgery and Counterfeiting act covers counterfeiting currencies with or without intention of passing it off as genuine or even by merely possessing it.
On topic, it is nigh unenforceable but it remains as one of those stuff which you should probably not do in front of any Wizards' legal staff.
Actually (and this is only American money but) if you print money that is not at least half sized or double sized it is illegal. Haven't you ever wondered why play money always looks so fake and is never anywhere near "real"size?
As some have said, printing any of the magic symbols,logos, or any magic artwork does violate the copyright but it really only becomes an issue if you attempt to profit from it. If you want to print from home to use for personal use, go ahead. No place like Kinkos should print any of the cards as that would make them legally responsible for whatever those prints get used for after and could be sued as a co-defendant.
There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
i make proxies and use them, but i try and get the cards i proxied, i dont like using proxies forever. i also use them with high money cards and i keep the cards nearby in a screw case.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyWriting a few words down on card or printing a copy out to use for lol's = Legal
LOL
Casual - Aura Nightmare WU
Modern - Acid Prison GW
Several issues but lets see if I can hit them all.
1. you are using custom printed cards that may not be the same thickness even in sleeves and may then be considered "marked" by tournament standards.
2. The artwork isn't the only thing that's copyrighted, the mana symbols and card frame are also copyrighted and owned by Wizards of the Coast.
3.If you try to sell these new basic lands then you are still violating Wizards trademarks, if not then you still have the problem pointed out in 1.
There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
If you own the card you can photocopy as many copies as you want for personal use legally. Any card I own worth anything substantial is in a binder safe at home and I xerox off about 30 copies of it to use in decks. Someone could walk away with every deck I own (16) and they'd have maybe $20 worth of cards. I thnk my keep at home binder is approaching the $5000 mark
It's legal in US law to create a proxy of a card you already have, if you don't sell them.
I think the main point there is the not selling them part. If you Xerox a card and put it in front of another card to use it as a proxy, even if you don't own the card, you're not going to get in trouble. If you show up to a sanctioned tournament doing this, that is against the rules and you will be penalized. I'm fairly certain America's police force has enough to deal with before they start worrying about people proxying Magic cards.
***Note: I am not a lawyer. Please do not use this as real legal advice.
That said most people make proxies of cards they don't own every so often, and in fact a number of people proxy cards to playtest before investing in them. Wizards only really cares if you're trying to make money off the fakes. So if you print up a full set of Innistrad and put it on ebay, you'll probably get a cease and desist letter at the most lenient, or more likely a lawsuit. If you're making some alternate art forests to run at FNM as long as you can't tell the card is different in anyway aside from looking at the art on the front of the card then it's fair game.
Likewise making tokens isn't copyright infringing unless you use something that they own a copyright on like mana symbols (if they want to copyright 1 they can rot because that's just retarded but I'll give them WUBRG and the hybrids and phybrids). So making your own Ooze token won't get you any flak, nor will writing "Black Lotus" on a basic land. You just can't play proxies in tournaments unless the TO specifically allows it. Which doesn't happen in anything but vintage and sometimes legacy generally.
Emille, Seven-Sting Dancer Shalin Nariya
To make counterfeit cards and sell them as real cards would be illegal.
If this were the case or in any way enforced I think tcgplayer would be in trouble, but I haven't heard anything about that yet. When you search up a card, at the bottom of that card's page is a print proxy button with 1-4 proxies, however many you need.
If the question is whether or not proxying cards is legal then the answer is yes and no. no it isn't legal for most tournaments unless otherwise stated and you will get disqualified. It is Legal by law, counterfeiting would be illegal but you can't pass off a paper print out of a card as that card to anyone. Alternate art is also legal as long as it is that card.
You could probably even get away with selling proxies to your friends in the sense that you are selling someone the ink it took to print them off, but that's between you and that person and would be hard to enforce whether it's legal or not.
I don't mean taking it to kinkos and photo copying it or printing it onto computer paper I mean actually printing copies of the cards. Cardstock wise that is. Trying to pass them off as the real thing.
Making a proxy by copying the image of a card, etc, is INFRINGEMENT, but it may or may not be illegal. That is because an infringement is not illegal if it is done under fair use, as codified in law at 17 USC 107. The enforcement of fair use is determined as the dispute arises, with abundant case law out there to guide the court, such as Campbell v. Acuff-Rose, LA Times v. Free Republic, Kelly v. Arribasoft, MGM v. American Honda, and so on.
To the extent that it affects any of you, your use is likely, but not guaranteed, to be fair use if you are making and using the proxies for your own, personal, recreational use, and not distributing them either freely or by sale. Instances where people sell custom-painted proxies alongside ballast (a legitimate card, whether the real card the proxy is based on or not) are much less certain to be fair use, and in fact might not be, depending on a given court's assessment using the four-point balancing test from the statute. It is wisest NOT to get yourself into a situation where you might have to find out at the business end of a gavel whether your infringement was fair use or not!
EDIT: Whether you are trying to "pass it off as the real thing" could be evidence toward one of the elements in the four-point balancing test, but it is not the central element of a fair use determination. In practice, doing that falls under the criminal conduct category known as "uttering," which encompasses concepts such as forgery, counterfeiting, and other forms of fraud. Copyright is a civil issue, while uttering, being fraud, is a criminal issue. Create an obvious proxy and sell it, and Wizards of the Coast LLC may have a civil claim against you. Create a proxy that is intended to counterfeit the real thing, and WOTC doesn't even enter the picture -- the STATE may have a criminal CHARGE to lay against you. The More You Know (Tm).
Hope this helps!
/I am not your attorney. For legal advice get yourself an attorney, don't base a potentially life-changing decision on what you read on an internet message board.
And the guy with the fake foil jace, I'd say it depends on your playgroup. I myself dont mind proxies as long as they look good and dont give them any ingame advantage. It's pretty much the same with my friends and we have an unspoken rule with it.