Last week my friend and I embarked on a wacky format challenge over MWS. The format was basically Portal Block Constructed; build decks using only cards from the three Portal sets. It was a lot of fun playing with obscure cards as well as horribly worded versions of Magic's classics, all while at the same time having access to some stupidly powerful ones like Natural Order and Imperial Recruiter.
Now I already knew the portal cards, and Three Kingdoms in particular, are very hard to find in paper form and that there are some very high priced cards from them. My question is how small the print run for the Portal sets, particularly Three Kingdoms, was for them to command such insane prices. Anyone have an idea of just how few of these boosters had to have been printed for them to sell for over $100 online and for obscure, EDH only cards like Xiahou Dun, the One Eyed to be reaching the $200 mark?
Portal the 3 Kingdoms was printed and marketed to the asian market to get there product more widespread play. One step in this was 4 versions of the cards with 3 versions in asian languages Chinese: simple & traditional and Japanese and a small english run distributed mainly in New Zealand and Australia. Its my understanding that the print runs were pretty limited compared to say 6th edition and Urza Destiny which were also out at that same time frame.
It was never released in the states and therefore they are more rare/valuble, the boosters and boxes and theme decks are pretty hard to come by nowadays and that, combined with collectors demand drives up the price. Without EDH/Commander stuff lile Xiahou Dun probly wouldnt top 30 buck's but its a great general and there isnt a ton of them around so the price has gone up.
The above post explains the rarity and limited distribution. Also languages depended on the countries, which is why english is the contrary in this case and worth more than the asian languages.
Portal and Portal 2 were both released en-mass as they were designed for teaching Magic to new players. I remember my old LGS had a few packs back in 2001 so i know they were released stateside. Far as i know Portal 3 Kingdoms is the only set to have been released in a specific part of the world only.
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Currently Playing 1994 Magic The Rack Type 1: B/W Zombies Modern: Kuldotha Red Legacy: Pox, Oath Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
Portal 1 and 2 are excesively common... especially the starter decks
Yes and no. The print run was pretty large, although not as large as the core sets at the time. However, Portal cards were not tournament legal up until a few years ago, as the expansion was intented specifically for new players. As such, a lot of Portal went unsold (which is why you can find sealed product pretty easily online), and a decent chunk of what was sold has either been mothballed or thrown away.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
So, would it be easier to find P3K English cards in Australia and New Zealand? Every place in Japan that I have been to sells Japanese P3K cards, and I know the value of the Japanese cards isn't as high as the English cards (for once).
It would probably be easier to find P3K in Australia/New Zealand, but remember that the card values are very high, and this is something that will hold true worldwide, so just because it was released over there doesn't mean it's going to be a ton cheaper, it'll still command a high price, you'll just have a slightly easier time finding it :-/.
(The other factor driving the insane prices is increased demand in EDH & Legacy. Both formats are growing very quickly. Contributes to price spikes just as much as their relative scarcity.)
I stand corrected on the other portal sets and I did read about Three Kingdoms being mostly released in Asia/Oceania, but does anyone have numbers for say how many English packs were released? Or at least a comparison to the size of something like Beta.
I just have to say, Natural Order and Imperial Recruiter aren't really that powerful. Natural Order is overcosted jank and is only playable due to Progenitus. Imperial Recruiter is perfectly fair and balanced. It'll probably also tank hard one day when Wizards finally gets around to printing that straight 2G creature tutor. Afterall, 2BB buys anything, 2U buys any artifact, 2W buys any enchantment, and 1G buys any land. 2U will probably also buy instants and 2R will probably buy sorceries.
Seriously, 2GG + Sacrifice a green creature is not a good price for one green creature. They haven't actually printed many cards like it, but Summoning Trap, Tooth and Nail, and Pattern of Rebirth suggest tutoring any creature to the battlefield shouldn't cost more than 3GG.
I also wouldn't say Tinker is a totally broken card. All it's done is cheat out Memory Jar a little cheaper (garbage in the average deck) and tutor out a big creature (Darksteel, Inkwell, Battlesphere). Academy decks are a very special case because most of the nonland cards, effectively function as ritual cards. The tutoring of a big creature also happens in a format dominated by combo, where very few creatures or creature removal are played and you can easily cast it turn 1. Phyrexian Negator and Lodestone Golem are pretty awesome in vintage, too, yet would suck in standard. Hell, Juggernaut was teir 1 in eternal until Lodestone.
I'm also not saying 2G tutor a creature would be an expensive card. Infact, I don't see it breaking $5 even if it gets printed at rare. (it'll probably be uncommon) I mean it would cut the price of Recruiter.
Seriously, 2GG + Sacrifice a green creature is not a good price for one green creature. They haven't actually printed many cards like it, but Summoning Trap, Tooth and Nail, and Pattern of Rebirth suggest tutoring any creature to the battlefield shouldn't cost more than 3GG.
I also wouldn't say Tinker is a totally broken card. All it's done is cheat out Memory Jar a little cheaper (garbage in the average deck) and tutor out a big creature (Darksteel, Inkwell, Battlesphere). Academy decks are a very special case because most of the nonland cards, effectively function as ritual cards. The tutoring of a big creature also happens in a format dominated by combo, where very few creatures or creature removal are played and you can easily cast it turn 1. Phyrexian Negator and Lodestone Golem are pretty awesome in vintage, too, yet would suck in standard. Hell, Juggernaut was teir 1 in eternal until Lodestone.
I'm also not saying 2G tutor a creature would be an expensive card. Infact, I don't see it breaking $5 even if it gets printed at rare. (it'll probably be uncommon) I mean it would cut the price of Recruiter.
Your argument against it being a good card and overcosted is a card that costs 2 more or conditionally free but, is most importantly, not always going to hit; a card that costs 7-9 mana; and a card that costs the same without doing the sacrificing to the creature for you. And even if all it's done is cheat out Progenitus that is still very powerful.
Recruiter is good because of the amount of other powerful cards and/or combo pieces it can get while being a body while you need it. I shouldn't have to go on about how many powerful 2 power or less creatures there are to fetch.
I just have to say, Natural Order and Imperial Recruiter aren't really that powerful. Natural Order is overcosted jank and is only playable due to Progenitus. Imperial Recruiter is perfectly fair and balanced. It'll probably also tank hard one day when Wizards finally gets around to printing that straight 2G creature tutor. Afterall, 2BB buys anything, 2U buys any artifact, 2W buys any enchantment, and 1G buys any land. 2U will probably also buy instants and 2R will probably buy sorceries.
I'm not even going to touch the Natural Order thing, but Imperial Recruiter is just an excellent card and I don't see how you can say it's 'not really that powerful.' As a combo enabler it's just incredibly good and has created some great decks. It's $200 for a reason. Part of that reason is his rarity, most of that reason is his completely absurd power level.
Maybe your standard of 'powerful' is something like Necropotence, and in that case it's a null argument because we just have different frameworks of what it means to be 'powerful' relatively. But to call cards that have enabled entire competitive decks in the past 'not powerful' is just... nonsensical.
Your argument against it being a good card and overcosted is a card that costs 2 more or conditionally free but, is most importantly, not always going to hit; a card that costs 7-9 mana; and a card that costs the same without doing the sacrificing to the creature for you. And even if all it's done is cheat out Progenitus that is still very powerful.
The point here is that NO is only playable because Progenitus exists. Before Progenitus, who played NO? What did they search for that was so good that it was worth risking the 3-to-1?
I mean, people make good decks from combos with bad cards all the time. No one would ever play Sword of the Meek without Thopter Foundry, nor Painter's Servant without Grindstone, etc.
Now I already knew the portal cards, and Three Kingdoms in particular, are very hard to find in paper form and that there are some very high priced cards from them. My question is how small the print run for the Portal sets, particularly Three Kingdoms, was for them to command such insane prices. Anyone have an idea of just how few of these boosters had to have been printed for them to sell for over $100 online and for obscure, EDH only cards like Xiahou Dun, the One Eyed to be reaching the $200 mark?
It was never released in the states and therefore they are more rare/valuble, the boosters and boxes and theme decks are pretty hard to come by nowadays and that, combined with collectors demand drives up the price. Without EDH/Commander stuff lile Xiahou Dun probly wouldnt top 30 buck's but its a great general and there isnt a ton of them around so the price has gone up.
Currently Playing
1994 Magic The Rack
Type 1: B/W Zombies
Modern: Kuldotha Red
Legacy: Pox, Oath
Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk
Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold
EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
Currently Playing
1994 Magic The Rack
Type 1: B/W Zombies
Modern: Kuldotha Red
Legacy: Pox, Oath
Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk
Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold
EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
Yes and no. The print run was pretty large, although not as large as the core sets at the time. However, Portal cards were not tournament legal up until a few years ago, as the expansion was intented specifically for new players. As such, a lot of Portal went unsold (which is why you can find sealed product pretty easily online), and a decent chunk of what was sold has either been mothballed or thrown away.
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I just have to say, Natural Order and Imperial Recruiter aren't really that powerful. Natural Order is overcosted jank and is only playable due to Progenitus. Imperial Recruiter is perfectly fair and balanced. It'll probably also tank hard one day when Wizards finally gets around to printing that straight 2G creature tutor. Afterall, 2BB buys anything, 2U buys any artifact, 2W buys any enchantment, and 1G buys any land. 2U will probably also buy instants and 2R will probably buy sorceries.
I also wouldn't say Tinker is a totally broken card. All it's done is cheat out Memory Jar a little cheaper (garbage in the average deck) and tutor out a big creature (Darksteel, Inkwell, Battlesphere). Academy decks are a very special case because most of the nonland cards, effectively function as ritual cards. The tutoring of a big creature also happens in a format dominated by combo, where very few creatures or creature removal are played and you can easily cast it turn 1. Phyrexian Negator and Lodestone Golem are pretty awesome in vintage, too, yet would suck in standard. Hell, Juggernaut was teir 1 in eternal until Lodestone.
I'm also not saying 2G tutor a creature would be an expensive card. Infact, I don't see it breaking $5 even if it gets printed at rare. (it'll probably be uncommon) I mean it would cut the price of Recruiter.
Your argument against it being a good card and overcosted is a card that costs 2 more or conditionally free but, is most importantly, not always going to hit; a card that costs 7-9 mana; and a card that costs the same without doing the sacrificing to the creature for you. And even if all it's done is cheat out Progenitus that is still very powerful.
Recruiter is good because of the amount of other powerful cards and/or combo pieces it can get while being a body while you need it. I shouldn't have to go on about how many powerful 2 power or less creatures there are to fetch.
I'm not even going to touch the Natural Order thing, but Imperial Recruiter is just an excellent card and I don't see how you can say it's 'not really that powerful.' As a combo enabler it's just incredibly good and has created some great decks. It's $200 for a reason. Part of that reason is his rarity, most of that reason is his completely absurd power level.
Maybe your standard of 'powerful' is something like Necropotence, and in that case it's a null argument because we just have different frameworks of what it means to be 'powerful' relatively. But to call cards that have enabled entire competitive decks in the past 'not powerful' is just... nonsensical.
The point here is that NO is only playable because Progenitus exists. Before Progenitus, who played NO? What did they search for that was so good that it was worth risking the 3-to-1?
I mean, people make good decks from combos with bad cards all the time. No one would ever play Sword of the Meek without Thopter Foundry, nor Painter's Servant without Grindstone, etc.