@Urza- You believe that retailers think that this will be a high demand, profitable set, but you expect them not to react to that belief? I'm sorry, but that does not make any sense. To not react to that belief would be silly. Stores, both online and B&M, raise prices both to profit and to ensure that many people have product to buy. If the price you sell a box at normally has customers who normally buy 1 box buying 3, or has you pre-selling 50 boxes in the time span that you normally sell 25, then you have to react.
This price increase seems inexplicable to you, but you don't have all the information. Pre-Orders are done in part to gauge the amount of product you need to buy. My experience from wholesellers indicates that the amount of time needed to order product for a new set and get it in time for release is getting shorter. If you have already ordered from your wholeseller at this point (and for 90% of stores that I know of, they have) you may have to pay a premium to change your order. At that point you have two choices: Stop selling product, or pay the premium and get more.
Finally, a shortage comes from supply AND demand. If more people are buying than were before, but you bought the same amount, voila! Shortage.
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How the hell is that wrong? Where is their moral obligation to keep your store in business? Did you forget the fact that we live in a capitalist society? You may own or work at a store or whatever, but you frequently have no idea what you're talking about - spouting off whatever comes to your head. It seems you've got a sheltered, screwed up worldview.
And you have an idealistic, overly simplistic view of how capitalism really works.
Selling at cost is an underhanded way of setting up a monopoly. Its the same thing Wal-Mart does to towns - comes in - undercuts the price on EVERYTHING in the short term until they run everything else out of business.
Then, by the time the shoppers realize they are buying inferior goods at that lower cost (and a lot of Wal-Mart's clientele never do realize it) - it's too late - no where else to buy. The moral implication is that the behavior undercuts competition. So when Wal-Mart (SCG) drives out all your local B&M stores - you won't need any of those paper cards cause you won't have anywhere to play anyway.... (// lives less than 2 hours south of SCG tournament center.... lol)
I don't agree that small stores can't offer anyone a break though. My 'new' local store has made me a loyal fan for life by agreeing to sell me my case of Zen at $80/box if I pre-pay. I can't ask for a better deal. He also sold me Exiled for MSRP - which I in turn rewarded him by buying a second copy from him at $100. Nevermind the hundreds of dollars in singles I am buying from him every month.
For what it's worth, this is not at all true. This set has been allocated at the distributor level, and is likely already sold out (three weeks before release). We have had great difficulty ordering the number of boxes we want to order for this set, and will likely fall short of the allotment we want.
Magic is going through an unprecedented growth spurt right now, and until the printing presses catch up to demand, I'd expect these prices to be the norm, rather than the exception. I expect boxes to hit $99.99 before the presale period is over; at our current $89.99 price, this set is outselling the presales of ANY previous Magic set by a large multiple.
- Ben
I have heard that distributors (Not WoTC...who didn't print enough M10, causing a shortage) are limiting the boxes...doesn't really seem wise to me.
Whatever price you preorder at is the price you get the boxes at, correct? Even if you weren't charged yet for your order for some reason?
This thread wasn't very indicative of what I was trying to relate, that is my apologies.
I was just wondering what was going on that is causing the prices to rise over the course of only a few days.
I guess it is good to hear that magic is doing extremely well these days though.
Ben, would you happen to know if you are getting more customers or more volume lately?...or both? (IE many more people buying vs people buying much more)
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Selling at cost is an underhanded way of setting up a monopoly. Its the same thing Wal-Mart does to towns - comes in - undercuts the price on EVERYTHING in the short term until they run everything else out of business.
And you have an idealistic, overly simplistic view of how capitalism really works.
Selling at cost is an underhanded way of setting up a monopoly. Its the same thing Wal-Mart does to towns - comes in - undercuts the price on EVERYTHING in the short term until they run everything else out of business.
LOL your funny.
Do you know how much merchandise a big-box retailer like Walmart buys at a time? Its called a price break...they buy so much more merchandise from a distributor that they pay less per item. Hence they can sell that item for less..GASP!
Anyway...it sux that the retailers are raising prices, but its simply how supply/demand works.
And you have an idealistic, overly simplistic view of how capitalism really works.
Selling at cost is an underhanded way of setting up a monopoly. Its the same thing Wal-Mart does to towns - comes in - undercuts the price on EVERYTHING in the short term until they run everything else out of business.
Then, by the time the shoppers realize they are buying inferior goods at that lower cost (and a lot of Wal-Mart's clientele never do realize it) - it's too late - no where else to buy. The moral implication is that the behavior undercuts competition. So when Wal-Mart (SCG) drives out all your local B&M stores - you won't need any of those paper cards cause you won't have anywhere to play anyway.... (// lives less than 2 hours south of SCG tournament center.... lol)
I don't agree that small stores can't offer anyone a break though. My 'new' local store has made me a loyal fan for life by agreeing to sell me my case of Zen at $80/box if I pre-pay. I can't ask for a better deal. He also sold me Exiled for MSRP - which I in turn rewarded him by buying a second copy from him at $100. Nevermind the hundreds of dollars in singles I am buying from him every month.
Competition is not the objective of capitalism. Companies are under no obligation to play nice and give their competition room to breathe when cornering the market makes them more money.
Do you know how much merchandise a big-box retailer like Walmart buys at a time? Its called a price break...they buy so much more merchandise from a distributor that they pay less per item. Hence they can sell that item for less..GASP!
Anyway...it sux that the retailers are raising prices, but its simply how supply/demand works.
Thats why I pre-ordered early
I'm not disagreeing that they deal in volume - but they do sell inferior junk for less money - but in the states - thats what the unwashed masses want - so who am I to argue? I loathe Wal-Mart and wish they'd stay away from where I live.
I don't get why people are down on the online sites for trying to make a buck all of a sudden when they see a set that looks like it will sell well - if the local places meet or beat their prices - thats a good thing overall for B&M stores no?
Competition is not the objective of capitalism. Companies are under no obligation to play nice and give their competition room to breathe when cornering the market makes them more money.
lol? Really? So without competition the market truely sets what they are willing to pay? We actually have a whole slew of anti-trust laws that cover what you claim doesn't happen. Wierd we'd make all those laws for nothing.
I have heard that distributors (Not WoTC...who didn't print enough M10, causing a shortage) are limiting the boxes...doesn't really seem wise to me.
Whatever price you preorder at is the price you get the boxes at, correct? Even if you weren't charged yet for your order for some reason?
I guess it is good to hear that magic is doing extremely well these days though.
Ben, would you happen to know if you are getting more customers or more volume lately?...or both? (IE many more people buying vs people buying much more)
Hey Urza:
I'd be happy to answer both of these questions:
1) Distributors are limiting people to make sure that they can get some quantity of boxes to everyone. This is to make sure that every store can get a supply of Zendikar - otherwise, some distributors would be sold out long before the mom and pop stores got ANY allocation of Zendikar (or M10). However, AFAIK most (if not all) distributors are sold out at this point. This is based on our own experiences trying to get Zendikar.
2) Magic is going through a huge growth spurt. This is a combination of factors - bad economy (making Magic Gaming nights more attractive to people looking for week-long group activities), WOTC's focus on player acquisitions, the Duels of the Planeswalkers game (bringing a lot of new players into Magic), a working MTGO (making more people want to play Magic), a return to flavor (IE: M10, top-down design, which brought a lot of flavor people back into the game), and generally very good set design. In the mass-market, Magic's sales have been a small fraction of the best selling games (Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, Chaotic, and others). There is a HUGE amount of room for Magic's growth (Magic has mainly been supported at the specialty-shop level), and I believe we're starting to see Magic take bites into the mass-market shares of other games.
To be honest, I'd expect to see a lot of mass-market Magic-branded items over the next few years (action figures, potentially a cartoon/TV show, more video games), because that's been the greatest road for success for other TCGs. Hasbro has the experience to make this happen (Think GI Joe or Transformers cartoons), and Magic has been moving towards having more identifiable figures (Planeswalkers) that could be built-around for marketing reasons. Personally, as long as the core gameplay remains intact, I'd be thrilled by Magic going in this direction.
Even if this doesn't happen - long story short is that Magic sales and interested and playing are climbing up, up up! GP's that were getting 400-600 people two years ago are getting 1,000-1,500 people. Single-slot PTQs this year topped 300 players - an unimaginable number two years ago. FNM attendance, prerelease attendance - all attendance is up across the board! All of this translates into increased volume, at the business level. It also is a sign of a very, very healthy game - it's not just a high-priced secondary market, but a very notable increase in people playing the game.
Lovely as it may be to argue about capitalism and the like, I suggest everyone cut it out with the insinuations to each other. This thread was designed for discussion about online Zendikar box prices, not for you to take pot-shots at each other about one's failing knowledge of economics.
For the record, I haven't yet pre-ordered, but I intend to buy a box (whether online or B&M remains to be seen). The last set I cracked a full box for was Shards of Alara, and I had won enough product at the PR to cover my M10 selection. I probably wouldn't want to spend more than $90 altogether, though...
I'm not disagreeing that they deal in volume - but they do sell inferior junk for less money - but in the states - thats what the unwashed masses want - so who am I to argue? I loathe Wal-Mart and wish they'd stay away from where I live.
I don't get why people are down on the online sites for trying to make a buck all of a sudden when they see a set that looks like it will sell well - if the local places meet or beat their prices - thats a good thing overall for B&M stores no?
Vatechguy is right on the money. If you don't believe it wait until the christmas sale flyers come out and look at TV's. Stores like Best Buy will have one model and Walmart will have a slightly different model for cheeper. They aren't selling the same TV, but when you only look at the resolution they are both 10,000:1 so people pay $15 less to get it from walmart and because walmart bullies the manufacturers to produce a TV that costs $50 less and they get thier way and make more profit than Best Buy.
Walmart is WAY above the volume discount. They abuse thier manufacturers, and their employees. Thier stores are dirty and unfriendly. I feel like I need to take a shower every time I walk out of the place. Needless to say I don't shop there.
Be glad that WoTC doesn't sell these kinds of products to big box stores directly. Otherwise you'd be getting booster packs for $1.99 that might not have a rare in it...
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Actually, I'm not at all surprised Magic is growing during a recession. Conventional wisdom says that people will cut back on game and hobby spending in a recession, but in fact the opposite is true - people who are under stress will spend more to cling to something good that's become a regular, constant part of their lives, than let it go.
One lesson you can learn from this is that perhaps it's better to wait until the print supply can catch up with demand, than go out and try to haggle for a box right now, when there's a known or suspected shortage.
In North America, you will probably be able to get boxes for the "usual" prices within a month of release.
At worst, it means you'll have to be selective about your new singles acquisitions. Pay $30 for an enemy fetch land you need now, or wait a month and get it for $12, while you play other decks/cards. You may have to pay more to draft Zendikar - or you can suggest a different set or block until things cool down.
You might do your LGS a favor by letting them know well in advance that you want X boxes of Zen when he or she can get an order in. Prepay might also be nice, if you trust him or her to keep all the preorder requests organized. From what Ben said, it sounds like the first run is already allocated out, and it's too late for that. You'll still get a box on preorder but you'll have to wait til the next run.
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Just think - if the physical card printing isn't done on schedule, rushing it or farming it out to smaller firms is not really the way to go. Think of the errors in collating. Ever open a box where most of the packs were missing a rare, or had crinkles or damage? It takes time and money to sort those types of issues out. There might not be enough stock on hand to honor your request for replacement Zendikar packs. I got a box of Mirrodin once, where half the packs had no rare, but an extra common. I sent the packs in, but there was not enough Mirrodin packs to honor the replacement request, so they sent Onslaught instead - I was pretty hacked off, but not much I could do about it. Or when you open a box and expect at least one mythic rare, but instead get SIX copies of Mayael's Aria and an equally skewed distribution of the uncommon run. You got "a rare" in each pack - you don't qualify for a replacement - but it sure does grind your gears, doesn't it?
In those cases, I'm perfectly content to wait my turn until the proper printings can be done with the proper oversight and quality controls.
I would really like to see Magic start getting more popular. I never understood how the other games sold more. Even when I played Pokemon, I barely spent any money on it and got bored of it quickly. I wouldn't touch the mess that is YGO with a 10 foot pole either.
The main thing I still want to see is a 'sequel' to Shandalar. They should work on at least one other game besides DotP (which was the name of a Shandalar expansion!) to diversify. (I like the game, but there are many ways they can go about making a M:TG game...) A DS game could be interesting, and something to really try to take a bite out of the countless YGO handheld garbage games.
Back on the initial topic, so increased demand causes the distributors to worry about satisfying all of their customers, and therefore they limit the amount that their customers can order...for now at least.
And so by the time the set is released the pricepoint for a box of the set will be the same as the scarce M10...99.99.
The Magic Party this weekend was quite the spectacle, and I was really impressed with all of the things WoTC did to promote the set. (Through the play by play on twitter)
Do you forsee the general base price (currently 79.99) of a booster box bought online raising by the time the next set comes out? (I guess we are due)
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I have heard that distributors (Not WoTC...who didn't print enough M10, causing a shortage) are limiting the boxes...doesn't really seem wise to me.
Whatever price you preorder at is the price you get the boxes at, correct? Even if you weren't charged yet for your order for some reason?
This thread wasn't very indicative of what I was trying to relate, that is my apologies.
I was just wondering what was going on that is causing the prices to rise over the course of only a few days.
I guess it is good to hear that magic is doing extremely well these days though.
Ben, would you happen to know if you are getting more customers or more volume lately?...or both? (IE many more people buying vs people buying much more)
Its Wizards doing cost controlls, you can tell they are def tightening the belt on costs. I was told this 9/11 Printing is already 80% sold of M10. What they seem to be doing is lowering print runs in order to get the base need of supply. Sure they might know they will sell 10mil boxes, but why not print 1mil at a time over weeks instead of sitting on product for months.
Wal-Mart has recently done massive inventory controls which saved them a ton of money.
I also think this cutback has created a false demand for product.
As for Zend I see a sellout happening, allocation doesn't help either. Along with the next 2-3 printings now the fetchlands are in.
I buy a decent amount and as soon as I knew allocation was happening I placed orders right away along with extra then I was planning.
I'd love to buy from a B&M store to support it, personally, as well as get the promo.
The main problem is, my Local Shop is over three hours away. I either pay a good 50 dollars on gas to get there and pick it up, or I pay 20-ish to get it shipped to me. And that's on top of the box costing 115 dollars after tax, and after the "special discount" for buying early. Most of the people who buy from the shop of a frequent buyer discount that drops it well beneath 100 dollars, but I sadly do not.
I just placed a preorder at Cardkingdom, where the price is (last I saw) 84.99. I haven't ever really preordered in bulk, so I have no clue if that price is what they charge because that's the price when I ordered, or if they charge more if their prices go up. Either way, I don't mind paying 90 dollars for a box, since it's still less than I'd pay buying them pack by pack, like we usually do since there's no B&M stores nearby.
I also recently found out I can sanction booster drafts without an actual DCI sanctioned judge, so I bought two boxes for me and I'll get a third one for drafting if I can drum up the support this week. Would I like to pay 80 dollars a box? Yes. But I don't buy enough at once to get that price. I don't have a 'distributor', or even a shop. I'll pay 2.50 a pack with a smile on my face, because it's half the price I'd pay from Wal-Mart. Plus, look at this set! Enemy fetches, a new Wrath, at least two goblins that are absolutely insanely efficient, beautiful full-art land, and god knows what else we have to see with the remaining 178 cards. Kamigawa sells for dirt cheap because it's an awful set, this sells for a little higher than average because of how 'profitable' it is.
For the record, I feel it's worth noting that the MSRP on a booster box of Magic cards is $143.64. Everyone felt like they were entitled to get FTV: Exiled at MSRP, and yet paying even 62% ($90) of MSRP for a booster box is absolutely aggregious. Either you want stores to charge MSRP or you don't; you shouldn't feel entitled to get all the Magic product you want for exactly what you think is a "fair" price.
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I'm gonna go ahead and say it: You sound like a whiny *****. You CERTAINLY wouldn't buy a $90 booster box? I thought you knew how much boxes cost stores to get, but expecting them at $80 is asinine and any store (Star City, looking in your direction) that sells them at that price is just trying to create a monopoly via total douchebaggery. I'm sorry that for all the trouble it takes to run a store and keep it stocked that you somehow don't feel we deserve to make more than $5 off something that we had to put out $75 to get. There is nothing ridiculous about paying $90 for a box; that's $2.50 per pack that has an MSRP of $3.99. I didn't realize that a 38% discount was ridiculous.
took the words out of my mouth. sometimes i love you Jeebus.
the cheapest i can get them is 100$ a pop. and yeah, that's really a bargain.
For what it's worth, this is not at all true. This set has been allocated at the distributor level, and is likely already sold out (three weeks before release). We have had great difficulty ordering the number of boxes we want to order for this set, and will likely fall short of the allotment we want.
Magic is going through an unprecedented growth spurt right now, and until the printing presses catch up to demand, I'd expect these prices to be the norm, rather than the exception. I expect boxes to hit $99.99 before the presale period is over; at our current $89.99 price, this set is outselling the presales of ANY previous Magic set by a large multiple.
- Ben
Hey Urza:
I'd be happy to answer both of these questions:
1) Distributors are limiting people to make sure that they can get some quantity of boxes to everyone. This is to make sure that every store can get a supply of Zendikar - otherwise, some distributors would be sold out long before the mom and pop stores got ANY allocation of Zendikar (or M10). However, AFAIK most (if not all) distributors are sold out at this point. This is based on our own experiences trying to get Zendikar.
2) Magic is going through a huge growth spurt. This is a combination of factors - bad economy (making Magic Gaming nights more attractive to people looking for week-long group activities), WOTC's focus on player acquisitions, the Duels of the Planeswalkers game (bringing a lot of new players into Magic), a working MTGO (making more people want to play Magic), a return to flavor (IE: M10, top-down design, which brought a lot of flavor people back into the game), and generally very good set design. In the mass-market, Magic's sales have been a small fraction of the best selling games (Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, Chaotic, and others). There is a HUGE amount of room for Magic's growth (Magic has mainly been supported at the specialty-shop level), and I believe we're starting to see Magic take bites into the mass-market shares of other games.
To be honest, I'd expect to see a lot of mass-market Magic-branded items over the next few years (action figures, potentially a cartoon/TV show, more video games), because that's been the greatest road for success for other TCGs. Hasbro has the experience to make this happen (Think GI Joe or Transformers cartoons), and Magic has been moving towards having more identifiable figures (Planeswalkers) that could be built-around for marketing reasons. Personally, as long as the core gameplay remains intact, I'd be thrilled by Magic going in this direction.
Even if this doesn't happen - long story short is that Magic sales and interested and playing are climbing up, up up! GP's that were getting 400-600 people two years ago are getting 1,000-1,500 people. Single-slot PTQs this year topped 300 players - an unimaginable number two years ago. FNM attendance, prerelease attendance - all attendance is up across the board! All of this translates into increased volume, at the business level. It also is a sign of a very, very healthy game - it's not just a high-priced secondary market, but a very notable increase in people playing the game.
- Ben
Thanks for stopping by Ben (I used to love your BoaB articles).
This information is very distressing to me. I have been on a sabbatical from Magic for a long time, but getting a foil Garruk stirred my urge to trade and build some decks that were shelved for a while and one of my friends expressed interest so I have started teaching him how to play. We couldn't find any M10 a couple weeks after it was out and finally split a box for $110 (after taxes).
I've already told him about the Zendikar set and its promotion, and we both plan on getting a box from a store when it is released (for the promotional card) and one more box each around christmas time, with a fatpack and a prerelease topping off the ZEN spendings. However, this news of shortages is slightly alarming. Hopefully Wizards will move to react in time so that we won't have a shortage during december (or before!).
I think they may have underestimated M10, but it was the first time I enjoyed opening the core set since Revised! With the news that enemy fetches are coming out, I hope they prepare for some large print runs - I'd rather crack some fetchlands for legacy decks than trade for them, that's for sure!
Any word on why fatpacks are going for so much (a google search shows starcity raised the price from $29.99 to $34.99).
Any word on why fatpacks are going for so much (a google search shows starcity raised the price from $29.99 to $34.99).
Fat Packs have a one-time printing as a rule - once they are gone, they are gone. Each Fat Pack for Zendikar comes with a 30-land pack of the full art lands. Our presales at $29.99 were going to far outpace our supply - people want to get their hands on the full-art lands. Combine this with the fact that first-set-of-a-block Fat Packs are traditionally strong sellers, we bumped the price $5. While I don't think (and don't hold me to this!) that the price will jump again before release, I do think that these Fat Packs will be hitting $40-$50 around Christmas (since there is no second printing on Fat Packs).
I was going to pre-order a couple of boxes from Troll and Toad over the weekend. I saw that there were about 79 boxes left at $75 each when I first checked, so I was in no hurry so I ran a few errands. When I got back they were sold-out. I had to order from another website for $84 a box, the same day! What the hell.:-/
I put a box on reserve at the local shop and it'll run me about $100. However, I'd rather pay that price to get it ASAP, then to wait until supply meets up with demand a few months later.
Me and my friend just preordered 3 boxes at 102 CAD in a B&M store (this means an actual store right, like not an online one?). given that we usually have to pay around 125 CAD for them, I think we made a good deal.
This price increase seems inexplicable to you, but you don't have all the information. Pre-Orders are done in part to gauge the amount of product you need to buy. My experience from wholesellers indicates that the amount of time needed to order product for a new set and get it in time for release is getting shorter. If you have already ordered from your wholeseller at this point (and for 90% of stores that I know of, they have) you may have to pay a premium to change your order. At that point you have two choices: Stop selling product, or pay the premium and get more.
Finally, a shortage comes from supply AND demand. If more people are buying than were before, but you bought the same amount, voila! Shortage.
Selling at cost is an underhanded way of setting up a monopoly. Its the same thing Wal-Mart does to towns - comes in - undercuts the price on EVERYTHING in the short term until they run everything else out of business.
Then, by the time the shoppers realize they are buying inferior goods at that lower cost (and a lot of Wal-Mart's clientele never do realize it) - it's too late - no where else to buy. The moral implication is that the behavior undercuts competition. So when Wal-Mart (SCG) drives out all your local B&M stores - you won't need any of those paper cards cause you won't have anywhere to play anyway.... (// lives less than 2 hours south of SCG tournament center.... lol)
I don't agree that small stores can't offer anyone a break though. My 'new' local store has made me a loyal fan for life by agreeing to sell me my case of Zen at $80/box if I pre-pay. I can't ask for a better deal. He also sold me Exiled for MSRP - which I in turn rewarded him by buying a second copy from him at $100. Nevermind the hundreds of dollars in singles I am buying from him every month.
I have heard that distributors (Not WoTC...who didn't print enough M10, causing a shortage) are limiting the boxes...doesn't really seem wise to me.
Whatever price you preorder at is the price you get the boxes at, correct? Even if you weren't charged yet for your order for some reason?
This thread wasn't very indicative of what I was trying to relate, that is my apologies.
I was just wondering what was going on that is causing the prices to rise over the course of only a few days.
I guess it is good to hear that magic is doing extremely well these days though.
Ben, would you happen to know if you are getting more customers or more volume lately?...or both? (IE many more people buying vs people buying much more)
Twitter
Nobody was selling at cost. Analogy fails.
LOL your funny.
Do you know how much merchandise a big-box retailer like Walmart buys at a time? Its called a price break...they buy so much more merchandise from a distributor that they pay less per item. Hence they can sell that item for less..GASP!
Anyway...it sux that the retailers are raising prices, but its simply how supply/demand works.
Thats why I pre-ordered early
Competition is not the objective of capitalism. Companies are under no obligation to play nice and give their competition room to breathe when cornering the market makes them more money.
I'm not disagreeing that they deal in volume - but they do sell inferior junk for less money - but in the states - thats what the unwashed masses want - so who am I to argue? I loathe Wal-Mart and wish they'd stay away from where I live.
I don't get why people are down on the online sites for trying to make a buck all of a sudden when they see a set that looks like it will sell well - if the local places meet or beat their prices - thats a good thing overall for B&M stores no?
lol? Really? So without competition the market truely sets what they are willing to pay? We actually have a whole slew of anti-trust laws that cover what you claim doesn't happen. Wierd we'd make all those laws for nothing.
Hey Urza:
I'd be happy to answer both of these questions:
1) Distributors are limiting people to make sure that they can get some quantity of boxes to everyone. This is to make sure that every store can get a supply of Zendikar - otherwise, some distributors would be sold out long before the mom and pop stores got ANY allocation of Zendikar (or M10). However, AFAIK most (if not all) distributors are sold out at this point. This is based on our own experiences trying to get Zendikar.
2) Magic is going through a huge growth spurt. This is a combination of factors - bad economy (making Magic Gaming nights more attractive to people looking for week-long group activities), WOTC's focus on player acquisitions, the Duels of the Planeswalkers game (bringing a lot of new players into Magic), a working MTGO (making more people want to play Magic), a return to flavor (IE: M10, top-down design, which brought a lot of flavor people back into the game), and generally very good set design. In the mass-market, Magic's sales have been a small fraction of the best selling games (Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, Chaotic, and others). There is a HUGE amount of room for Magic's growth (Magic has mainly been supported at the specialty-shop level), and I believe we're starting to see Magic take bites into the mass-market shares of other games.
To be honest, I'd expect to see a lot of mass-market Magic-branded items over the next few years (action figures, potentially a cartoon/TV show, more video games), because that's been the greatest road for success for other TCGs. Hasbro has the experience to make this happen (Think GI Joe or Transformers cartoons), and Magic has been moving towards having more identifiable figures (Planeswalkers) that could be built-around for marketing reasons. Personally, as long as the core gameplay remains intact, I'd be thrilled by Magic going in this direction.
Even if this doesn't happen - long story short is that Magic sales and interested and playing are climbing up, up up! GP's that were getting 400-600 people two years ago are getting 1,000-1,500 people. Single-slot PTQs this year topped 300 players - an unimaginable number two years ago. FNM attendance, prerelease attendance - all attendance is up across the board! All of this translates into increased volume, at the business level. It also is a sign of a very, very healthy game - it's not just a high-priced secondary market, but a very notable increase in people playing the game.
- Ben
For the record, I haven't yet pre-ordered, but I intend to buy a box (whether online or B&M remains to be seen). The last set I cracked a full box for was Shards of Alara, and I had won enough product at the PR to cover my M10 selection. I probably wouldn't want to spend more than $90 altogether, though...
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
Vatechguy is right on the money. If you don't believe it wait until the christmas sale flyers come out and look at TV's. Stores like Best Buy will have one model and Walmart will have a slightly different model for cheeper. They aren't selling the same TV, but when you only look at the resolution they are both 10,000:1 so people pay $15 less to get it from walmart and because walmart bullies the manufacturers to produce a TV that costs $50 less and they get thier way and make more profit than Best Buy.
Walmart is WAY above the volume discount. They abuse thier manufacturers, and their employees. Thier stores are dirty and unfriendly. I feel like I need to take a shower every time I walk out of the place. Needless to say I don't shop there.
Be glad that WoTC doesn't sell these kinds of products to big box stores directly. Otherwise you'd be getting booster packs for $1.99 that might not have a rare in it...
One lesson you can learn from this is that perhaps it's better to wait until the print supply can catch up with demand, than go out and try to haggle for a box right now, when there's a known or suspected shortage.
In North America, you will probably be able to get boxes for the "usual" prices within a month of release.
At worst, it means you'll have to be selective about your new singles acquisitions. Pay $30 for an enemy fetch land you need now, or wait a month and get it for $12, while you play other decks/cards. You may have to pay more to draft Zendikar - or you can suggest a different set or block until things cool down.
You might do your LGS a favor by letting them know well in advance that you want X boxes of Zen when he or she can get an order in. Prepay might also be nice, if you trust him or her to keep all the preorder requests organized. From what Ben said, it sounds like the first run is already allocated out, and it's too late for that. You'll still get a box on preorder but you'll have to wait til the next run.
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Just think - if the physical card printing isn't done on schedule, rushing it or farming it out to smaller firms is not really the way to go. Think of the errors in collating. Ever open a box where most of the packs were missing a rare, or had crinkles or damage? It takes time and money to sort those types of issues out. There might not be enough stock on hand to honor your request for replacement Zendikar packs. I got a box of Mirrodin once, where half the packs had no rare, but an extra common. I sent the packs in, but there was not enough Mirrodin packs to honor the replacement request, so they sent Onslaught instead - I was pretty hacked off, but not much I could do about it. Or when you open a box and expect at least one mythic rare, but instead get SIX copies of Mayael's Aria and an equally skewed distribution of the uncommon run. You got "a rare" in each pack - you don't qualify for a replacement - but it sure does grind your gears, doesn't it?
In those cases, I'm perfectly content to wait my turn until the proper printings can be done with the proper oversight and quality controls.
The main thing I still want to see is a 'sequel' to Shandalar. They should work on at least one other game besides DotP (which was the name of a Shandalar expansion!) to diversify. (I like the game, but there are many ways they can go about making a M:TG game...) A DS game could be interesting, and something to really try to take a bite out of the countless YGO handheld garbage games.
Back on the initial topic, so increased demand causes the distributors to worry about satisfying all of their customers, and therefore they limit the amount that their customers can order...for now at least.
And so by the time the set is released the pricepoint for a box of the set will be the same as the scarce M10...99.99.
The Magic Party this weekend was quite the spectacle, and I was really impressed with all of the things WoTC did to promote the set. (Through the play by play on twitter)
Do you forsee the general base price (currently 79.99) of a booster box bought online raising by the time the next set comes out? (I guess we are due)
Twitter
Its Wizards doing cost controlls, you can tell they are def tightening the belt on costs. I was told this 9/11 Printing is already 80% sold of M10. What they seem to be doing is lowering print runs in order to get the base need of supply. Sure they might know they will sell 10mil boxes, but why not print 1mil at a time over weeks instead of sitting on product for months.
Wal-Mart has recently done massive inventory controls which saved them a ton of money.
I also think this cutback has created a false demand for product.
As for Zend I see a sellout happening, allocation doesn't help either. Along with the next 2-3 printings now the fetchlands are in.
I buy a decent amount and as soon as I knew allocation was happening I placed orders right away along with extra then I was planning.
The main problem is, my Local Shop is over three hours away. I either pay a good 50 dollars on gas to get there and pick it up, or I pay 20-ish to get it shipped to me. And that's on top of the box costing 115 dollars after tax, and after the "special discount" for buying early. Most of the people who buy from the shop of a frequent buyer discount that drops it well beneath 100 dollars, but I sadly do not.
I just placed a preorder at Cardkingdom, where the price is (last I saw) 84.99. I haven't ever really preordered in bulk, so I have no clue if that price is what they charge because that's the price when I ordered, or if they charge more if their prices go up. Either way, I don't mind paying 90 dollars for a box, since it's still less than I'd pay buying them pack by pack, like we usually do since there's no B&M stores nearby.
I also recently found out I can sanction booster drafts without an actual DCI sanctioned judge, so I bought two boxes for me and I'll get a third one for drafting if I can drum up the support this week. Would I like to pay 80 dollars a box? Yes. But I don't buy enough at once to get that price. I don't have a 'distributor', or even a shop. I'll pay 2.50 a pack with a smile on my face, because it's half the price I'd pay from Wal-Mart. Plus, look at this set! Enemy fetches, a new Wrath, at least two goblins that are absolutely insanely efficient, beautiful full-art land, and god knows what else we have to see with the remaining 178 cards. Kamigawa sells for dirt cheap because it's an awful set, this sells for a little higher than average because of how 'profitable' it is.
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.
Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded.
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took the words out of my mouth. sometimes i love you Jeebus.
the cheapest i can get them is 100$ a pop. and yeah, that's really a bargain.
I like Turtles
Thanks for stopping by Ben (I used to love your BoaB articles).
This information is very distressing to me. I have been on a sabbatical from Magic for a long time, but getting a foil Garruk stirred my urge to trade and build some decks that were shelved for a while and one of my friends expressed interest so I have started teaching him how to play. We couldn't find any M10 a couple weeks after it was out and finally split a box for $110 (after taxes).
I've already told him about the Zendikar set and its promotion, and we both plan on getting a box from a store when it is released (for the promotional card) and one more box each around christmas time, with a fatpack and a prerelease topping off the ZEN spendings. However, this news of shortages is slightly alarming. Hopefully Wizards will move to react in time so that we won't have a shortage during december (or before!).
I think they may have underestimated M10, but it was the first time I enjoyed opening the core set since Revised! With the news that enemy fetches are coming out, I hope they prepare for some large print runs - I'd rather crack some fetchlands for legacy decks than trade for them, that's for sure!
Any word on why fatpacks are going for so much (a google search shows starcity raised the price from $29.99 to $34.99).
Fat Packs have a one-time printing as a rule - once they are gone, they are gone. Each Fat Pack for Zendikar comes with a 30-land pack of the full art lands. Our presales at $29.99 were going to far outpace our supply - people want to get their hands on the full-art lands. Combine this with the fact that first-set-of-a-block Fat Packs are traditionally strong sellers, we bumped the price $5. While I don't think (and don't hold me to this!) that the price will jump again before release, I do think that these Fat Packs will be hitting $40-$50 around Christmas (since there is no second printing on Fat Packs).
- Ben
Standard:
RURuneflare ComboRU
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WURBGGreanimator WURBG
Elder Dragon Highlander:
GUMomir VigGU
Quotes in blog.
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Commander:
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U Kami of the Crescent Moon U (Flagship Deck)
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