I like the idea of Classes because it keeps players from moving from a cleric (not a fighter by far) to a soldier or samuri or whatever, and it will keep it from confusing people that dont quite get tis game. so my vote is for creature classes
I suppose you could say that if your level one is a "human cleric" your lvl2 must also be a human cleric. But then again that cuts a lot of older cards that are only a race and not a class....I duno...I'm still not sold on that idea..plus it would just be a limitation, as its too dificult to add other card-based restrictions...
Started in on the rulebook...any comments on the visual layout, I'm welcome to. Each of the pages will look nearly identical (short of front/back cover and index). Also each of the first pages of each chapter will look slightly different. Every other page's layout will be flipped horizontally. Comments? (The final version will be 2x as large and pdf-ed. This was resized so we dont have bandwidth issues)
Cool! um... other than the fact that pencil and scrap paper is listed twice under GM materials... OK, and it bothers me that it says "additionally, the GM needs..." and then lists things that are already on the player list. But that's just me being persnickity.
Say... would you like any little sketchy-type things? I don't have the attention span to do many full-color pictures, but I'd be glad to add any little illustrations you want me to do.
I like the choice of backgrounds. Simple, but pretty. And I like your choice of font for the headings... makes me think of old Magic cards for some reason...
*edit* I've gotten a group together, we should be testing this out this weekend. I'll try to keep notes on all the ways they break rules...
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CCGWorkshop
A way to play lots of nifty old CCG's online.
Cool! um... other than the fact that pencil and scrap paper is listed twice under GM materials... OK, and it bothers me that it says "additionally, the GM needs..." and then lists things that are already on the player list. But that's just me being persnickity.
will be fixed, thx
Quote from CateranLlama »
Say... would you like any little sketchy-type things? I don't have the attention span to do many full-color pictures, but I'd be glad to add any little illustrations you want me to do.
That would be awesome, anything you are willing to sketch would be fantastic. And don't worry about colorization or cleaning it up too much, I can always play with it in pshop.
Quote from CateranLlama »
I like the choice of backgrounds. Simple, but pretty. And I like your choice of font for the headings... makes me think of old Magic cards for some reason...
(if that isn't sarcasm) it reminds you of it, because it is. The text is all the new card face text (Plantin) and the headers are the old font from pre-8th stuff..
The background mainly echoes a similar look to the D&D 3rd ed. rulebook...
It wasn't sarcasm. I try not to do sarcasm, humor doesn't work for me some reason. And when I saw the gold border I was thinking gold=all colors=good background for something that might involve all colors of characters.
Are there characters you use to illustrate concepts? Concepts you want sketched? Or shall I just scan you whatever I doodle when we try the game out?
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Awesome-looking rulebook so far, Tidwell. I should be able to help get the rules in a more final format in about a week, once I'm done with this school business.
Quote from CateranLlama »
Are there characters you use to illustrate concepts? Concepts you want sketched? Or shall I just scan you whatever I doodle when we try the game out?
I'm thinking we could have one running example like I tried to do in the main post and others. We could use mostly the Goblin/Mountain Pass scenario to illustrate the GM rules and something like my Charm Peddler example to illustrate the player rules.
My vote goes against classes, too, I think. I'd rather not restrict the players' options that much. So, Classes: 1, No Classes: 2.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
Wow, this is really cool. I'll have to try to get some friends around to try this out.
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first turn
Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
The reason I play black according to CrovaxtheCursed:
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
with the class/ race you can go by the pic, like if it is clearly a human on an older card without a race, i think you should be able to move on to that card even if it dosent say so.
I am for classes, but I think the number should be small like 3 or 4.
Also, I am sorry to say that the online version progresses slowly due to unforseen personal matters. Never fear though it will be completed and coming this month it will be featured on mtgtools.com (site to be designed as well... no point in going there right now)
with the class/ race you can go by the pic, like if it is clearly a human on an older card without a race, i think you should be able to move on to that card even if it dosent say so.
Yeah, unfortunately, until Wizards releases errata with race/class for all those old cards, we have to go by the pic for now.
Quote from gamermk »
I am for classes, but I think the number should be small like 3 or 4.
Also, I am sorry to say that the online version progresses slowly due to unforseen personal matters. Never fear though it will be completed and coming this month it will be featured on mtgtools.com (site to be designed as well... no point in going there right now)
Not a problem, I'm just so glad you're doing it in the first place.
That puts the vote to 3/2 in favour of having classes.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
Yeah, unfortunately, until Wizards releases errata with race/class for all those old cards, we have to go by the pic for now. Not a problem, I'm just so glad you're doing it in the first place.
That puts the vote to 3/2 in favour of having classes.
The entire thing that bugs me about classes is how to impliment them. There are a number of things against them, and the benifits aren't really seen.
Against:
1. Indeterminate creature type on older cards - guessing a type sucks and I wouldn't want to see an argument between a GM and a player, especially considering, do we apply (to cards) the chosen class, or the card as written.
2. Memory issues. Do you get to select the class at each level (like abilities) or keep it throughout the entire thing. What is the difference between a human samurai and why couldn't they become a human soldier?
3. Benifits become more rules. Some of the main reasons the game is so fun is because almost everything you need to know to play exists within the magic rules and the cards themselves. Additional rules because of classes make a bigger mess with character creation/leveling and create memory issues.
In support, we have an added level of flavor (though admitadly, its a flavor present in EVERY other RPG - and I personally think that the creature type line is enough of a "class" as is). By forcing the player to stay with their original race, I think it makes perfect sense that an elf shaman could become an elf wizard (if the GM made an elf campaign). The added flavor doesn't offset the additional limitations. Part of a successful game is giving a player a vast number of options - and considering that we are already working within a defined and limited environment (limited to the few hundred or so human characters), it would be a disadvantage to cut that down to the 50 human "wizards" if they chose that type.
My 2 cents...I have no problem recommending it within the GM section of the rules as "optional rules" but forcing players to make that decision seems a bit non-intuitive when leveling. New levels = new experiences = possibly a new trade or skill (he fought so much [ie gained xp] that the cleric is now a soldier. Or the samurai has turned to the blue-end of the color pie and is now a ninja).
All good points, Tidwell, and the same reasons I'm against them. While a cool, flavourful idea, I think people will find it just too limiting. It's not even so much that a player can't choose a knight after being a samurai (I never even said the actual class on the creature couldn't change), but that the selection of spells, say for a cleric, is much, much smaller than the whole. There is absolutely nothing, for example, that red offers the cleric. Maybe it could be that half the spells in your deck have to "be from your class," but you're still pretty much stuck in one colour, and again, there are memory issues.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
Interesting idea, though playing blue causes some problems; bounce is a very prominent effect, especially for only one mana. Essentially, Unsummon was the first spell I had thought about when you mentioned the limitations of CMC for first level.
Some thoughts:
Merchant of Secrets: player draws an extra card at the beginning of combat.
Zombies: Playable race? Cabal Interrogator would be admissable, but probably not Scathe Zombies. I'd say it's conditional depending on the card.
Land Destruction: Disrupts mana flow for everyone?
Removal: you can limit the targets, like in D&D. Spells like Horrid Wilting tend to kill weaker creatures outright, but when used on more powerful creatures, it tends to only deal damage. A lot of damage, but only fatal if they don't have enough hit points left. Problem with this is that it essentially turns Terror into a burn spell.
It's quite an effort to turn Magic into an RPG, but this isn't working out so bad. Can't wait to run around as a wizard with a Yotian Soldier in tow; artifact familiars? Why not? wizards build golems all the time.
Edit: I wasn't aware there was a controversy over classes. In that case: Yes, I believe that classes should be taken into consideration. I also believe that changing classes shouldn't be too hard: Soldier with Samurai would be an OK change, so would rouge with ninja. There should be some limitations, however. Shamen cannot change into wizards or vice versa, though they can turn into Druids. As a general rule, martial style classes cannot turn into spellcasters. Unless you level up and take a card like Shakura-Tribe scout for one level, then make a jump from scout to warrior. Kind of a stretch, but the middleman of the Scout makes it kinda balanced; I.E: you're not just grabbing all the snakes you can find regardless of their training.
THe real controversy, I think, will be over black players. Not a lot of usable black creatures for only one mana, at least not without them changing jobs. (Rag dealer to a wizard, or what have you)
Interesting idea, though playing blue causes some problems; bounce is a very prominent effect, especially for only one mana. Essentially, Unsummon was the first spell I had thought about when you mentioned the limitations of CMC for first level.
I think the bounce problem was solved by changing it to "rfgueot" instead (remove from game until end of turn) and then having anything that's still removed when the other enemies are defeated only count half experience.
Quote from Darkshooter »
Some thoughts:
Merchant of Secrets: player draws an extra card at the beginning of combat.
That'll be what it does, yes. Basically, CIP abilities will "reset" and trigger @ the start of each battle/combat.
Quote from Darkshooter »
Zombies: Playable race? Cabal Interrogator would be admissable, but probably not Scathe Zombies. I'd say it's conditional depending on the card.
I'm sticking with a firm NO on zombies as a playable race. They're dumb (with the exception of a few, but I'm trying not to make too many rules that only apply to one or two cards) and far too undead, IMO.
Quote from Darkshooter »
Land Destruction: Disrupts mana flow for everyone?
LD will simply be used to "destroy" the lands the GM puts out and turn them into basic lands. Disrupting mana flow for everyone is too dissimilar to what they normally do, IMO, as everyone uses mana instead of land.
Quote from Darkshooter »
Removal: you can limit the targets, like in D&D. Spells like Horrid Wilting tend to kill weaker creatures outright, but when used on more powerful creatures, it tends to only deal damage. A lot of damage, but only fatal if they don't have enough hit points left. Problem with this is that it essentially turns Terror into a burn spell.
The friend I had first played this with suggested the same thing (he knows more about D&D than I do), but again, I think this was fixed by making targets killed this way count half experience, and bosses and players untargetable by these spells/effects.
Quote from Darkshooter »
It's quite an effort to turn Magic into an RPG, but this isn't working out so bad. Can't wait to run around as a wizard with a Yotian Soldier in tow; artifact familiars? Why not? wizards build golems all the time.
Artifact familiars? I don't see why not.
Quote from Darkshooter »
Edit: I wasn't aware there was a controversy over classes. In that case: Yes, I believe that classes should be taken into consideration. I also believe that changing classes shouldn't be too hard: Soldier with Samurai would be an OK change, so would rouge with ninja. There should be some limitations, however. Shamen cannot change into wizards or vice versa, though they can turn into Druids. As a general rule, martial style classes cannot turn into spellcasters. Unless you level up and take a card like Shakura-Tribe scout for one level, then make a jump from scout to warrior. Kind of a stretch, but the middleman of the Scout makes it kinda balanced; I.E: you're not just grabbing all the snakes you can find regardless of their training.
With the exception of martial vs spellcaster, I think way too many lines have to be drawn to say who can and can't turn into what. And a simple martial vs spellcaster setup doesn't really add enough flavour to be worth it, IMO.
Quote from Darkshooter »
THe real controversy, I think, will be over black players.
Racism? Lol, I know that's not what you meant. I don't see a problem with black having very few playable level 1 characters. I noticed this, too, but I guess that just means fewer people will choose to start in black.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
Not to worry, Tidwell, now that I'm home for break, I'll be devoting some of my time to rule-book-making, as well as playtesting. Maybe we can compare notes!
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
I thought about finding random artifacts as an interesting idea. Say you walk into a room find something. Do you pick it up yes or no? Roll the dice, you may find something useful like a Fellwar Stone or something bad like Jinxed Idol that you must find away to get rid of. As for black there are a few 1 drops but not many, best I can think of right now is Blood Celebrant. Still the better black creatures come latter, only problem is with class you would be stuck on cleric not many of those around.
first turn
Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
The reason I play black according to CrovaxtheCursed:
Wow, i now read the whole threat and everything sounds really cool and kinda funny to me. I hope there will be many people who start play this kind of game in the future, would be really funny to have different possipilities when you meet with your play group.
Ok, after reading the discussion about classes i thought it might be ok to put classes wich aren't very different together like: solider, knight, warrior, mercenary, paladin, samurai and so on, so all meele fighters count as one class.
With this "logic" you can limit the number of classes to a very few while fixing the problem with the number of existing cards.
And I also think there is really NO problem to figure out the class/race on older cards because there are so many things you can look after like the name, ability, picture and so on.
If there are really a few very complicated cards you just can start making a list of these and GMs can carry them with them, so where is the problem?
Well and after reading this I guess you mentioned that I am clearly PRO Classes. ^^
/edit
I btw very dislike the idea of forcing players to switch colors after the first change to a different color. That is much more cutting the possibilities and the "free planning" than classes would do.
/edit #2
While browing through magiccards.info I mentioned that there are some "problems" with cards which have sacrifice abilities or something which let you interact with a creature card in your grave/lib or hand.
THs a problem we should think about because it cuts some interesting cards from beeing used.
Sacrifice you maybe could replace with manacosts equal to lvl x2 (but usable at your current level)
So that's what, 4 pro-classes, 2 against? I think what people are missing is that if they are to be done, it should be closer to my original idea, where it doesn't matter what class you have on your character card, but what class you choose. For example, if you choose Necromancer, you could start as a Devoted Retainer, but have access to graveyard-interacting cards. This way classes could be implemented without limiting a player's choice of what creature cards they can use for their character.
@ Your first edit: Players aren't forced to switch colours. First, the choice is optional. Second, they're adding colours, i.e. they keep their old one, but get a new one, too.
@ Your second edit: That is an interesting idea. I think maybe it should be worded as "Instead of sacrificing a creature, you may pay this spell's mana cost." That was it's playable at your current level and you have the option of sacrifing a creature (familiar, or if you're a Summoner, a token). I encourage everyone to playtest this, as well as classes. This game is still in the development stages, after all.
Other notes: I hope to have a page of rules done later tonight (some of the character creation stuff).
And here are a few rules that I like that my brother (Karl the Wolfman) and I came up with:
1) When a player dies, he/she can be ressurected at a nearby town. It's up to the GM how long it takes the remaining players to find a town, i.e. they'll have to travel a bit and get in a few more fights along the way, i.e. the dead player misses out on experience opportunities (penalty #1). The dead player should also lose half their gold, rounded up (penalty #2).
2) In said towns, artifacts are for sale. The GM rolls a d6 to see how many are available, then places that many random (well, random from a larger selection of useful items) artifacts for the players to buy. Also, players may buy food @ 25gp a meal (one per player) to heal 3 health (food found in the wild heals 2 health). Meals can also be fed to familiars.
3) After defeating a boss, the normal "search to find things" rolls are doubled, i.e. each player gets 2 rolls. Additionally, if gold is found, that number could be doubled as well (50gp for a little 150gp for a lot).
EDIT: This experience curve has worked well for me: Level 2 - 75exp
Level 3 - 225exp
Level 4 - 625exp
Level 5 - 1325exp
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
Well, your spell restriction idea instead of classes is cool, too. I must have missed the part where you wrote it. ^^
That could maybe just do a better job then classes, because on this way you can limit the spellaccess to stop too strong combinations..reallys sounds cool.
I think I didn't explain it right what I don't like with the colorsetting.
I meant that I quite don't like that you have to follow the color wheel.
Maybe a player just wants to stay WG the whole time.
What about adding a restriction to the spell level, too which would mean if you reach lvl 5, started as a white char and each level up you selected another white one, you can use level 1 - lvl 5 white spells but if you choose 3 white chars and 2 green ones you just can use white spells up to lvl3 and green up to lvl 2.
So you can master your "job" or be an allrounder but without doing anything perfectly.
I think if you like it it might be an idea which players may test. Atm I have no idea if this way would be too weak at the late game.
I think my spell-restriction idea was really only mentioned in the first post about classes. After that we kept toying with the idea of classes based on creature cards. And again, you don't have to follow the wheel, you can stop at any time, pick it up again whenever you want, or not even begin in the first place. Personally, I don't like the idea of restricting spells based on level, I think it would be too weak. Plus, with the goal being players only reach about level 5 by the end of the game, I think players would want to explore as many spells as possible. But, it is an idea, so please feel free to playtest it and let us know what you think after that.
Btw, I'm honoured that half your posts are on my thread
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
SRy been doing alot of playtesting lately and had to put this project aside for a few weeks.....I agree i'm defeintly pro-classes as thats they way we play anyway...I'll post some more games-rules after the break my friends and me may be able to get a few games in...
-TotT
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Quote from mastab3690 »
yes turning of the tide that was a nice, props on breaking the deck
Ok, the following is an attempt at the "character creation" chapter:
Character Creation
Each player in the Magic: Legends world controls his or her own character. Like traditional RPGs, these characters start at Level One and fight monsters to gain experience, thus increasing their level, options, skills, and power. First, however, each player must choose the colour and spells his or her character will have at his or her disposal in the beginning. Characters are represented by creature cards from the Magic: the Gathering card game. Character level corresponds to the converted mana cost of the creature card. Therefore, to choose a card to represent his or her Level One character, each player must choose a creature with converted mana cost equal to one. Other restrictions apply, too, because it wouldn’t make much sense for a Myr Mindservant be questing for gold, glory, and to save the world. The two rules to follow when selecting your Level 1 character (or character card of any level, for that matter, but more on that later) are 1) No legendary creatures. The goal of the game is to turn your character into a legend through your adventures, not be one (or be able to become a specific one) from the start. Sorry, Bushi Tenderfoot. And 2) The creature chosen must be of a humanoid sentient race. Again, it doesn’t make sense for an Alabaster Leech to be out to slay dragons and collect riches. (We’d also like to take this moment to doubly apologize to Isamaru, Hound of Konda.) Abiding by these rules, Charm Peddler (whom we’ll use throughout the examples) is a perfectly solid choice for Level One character. It is recommended that players read through the rest of these rules before selecting a character and especially before starting a game. There are other rules interactions and banned cards (see Chapter 8) that will certainly help players make up – and indeed maybe even change – their mind about their character choice. Once each player has chosen his or her starting character, it is time for each to make their own spell deck. Spell decks consist of exactly fifteen non-creature cards. The rest of the rules for creating spell decks are as follows. First, each player must take note of the colour of his or her character. This is the onlycolour he or she will be using to create the initial spell deck. All fifteen cards much match the colour of the player’s character and onlythat colour. Second, spells may be no higher in level than the character. Thus, in the initial spell deck every spell will be Level One, following the same rule as character level. For all creatures, spells, and abilities in the game, level is equal to converted mana cost. (More later on levels with respect to abilities, as they are somewhat of a special case.) Third, no more than two copies of each spell may be in any one player’s spell deck. This is to keep spell decks from using only four different cards, thus being boring and possibly broken. Following these three rules, our Charm Peddler could use one or two (but no more) copies of Ethereal Haze, Stand Firm, etc.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
I suppose you could say that if your level one is a "human cleric" your lvl2 must also be a human cleric. But then again that cuts a lot of older cards that are only a race and not a class....I duno...I'm still not sold on that idea..plus it would just be a limitation, as its too dificult to add other card-based restrictions...
Say... would you like any little sketchy-type things? I don't have the attention span to do many full-color pictures, but I'd be glad to add any little illustrations you want me to do.
I like the choice of backgrounds. Simple, but pretty. And I like your choice of font for the headings... makes me think of old Magic cards for some reason...
*edit* I've gotten a group together, we should be testing this out this weekend. I'll try to keep notes on all the ways they break rules...
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will be fixed, thx
That would be awesome, anything you are willing to sketch would be fantastic. And don't worry about colorization or cleaning it up too much, I can always play with it in pshop.
(if that isn't sarcasm) it reminds you of it, because it is. The text is all the new card face text (Plantin) and the headers are the old font from pre-8th stuff..
The background mainly echoes a similar look to the D&D 3rd ed. rulebook...
Are there characters you use to illustrate concepts? Concepts you want sketched? Or shall I just scan you whatever I doodle when we try the game out?
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A way to play lots of nifty old CCG's online.
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I'm thinking we could have one running example like I tried to do in the main post and others. We could use mostly the Goblin/Mountain Pass scenario to illustrate the GM rules and something like my Charm Peddler example to illustrate the player rules.
My vote goes against classes, too, I think. I'd rather not restrict the players' options that much. So, Classes: 1, No Classes: 2.
Guildmaster Jarad
Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
The reason I play black according to CrovaxtheCursed:
And as an edit to my previous post:
For classes: 2
Against classes: 2
Guildmaster Jarad
Thanks for the awesome sig Topher!
My Trades
MOTL
Also, I am sorry to say that the online version progresses slowly due to unforseen personal matters. Never fear though it will be completed and coming this month it will be featured on mtgtools.com (site to be designed as well... no point in going there right now)
Not a problem, I'm just so glad you're doing it in the first place.
That puts the vote to 3/2 in favour of having classes.
Guildmaster Jarad
The entire thing that bugs me about classes is how to impliment them. There are a number of things against them, and the benifits aren't really seen.
Against:
1. Indeterminate creature type on older cards - guessing a type sucks and I wouldn't want to see an argument between a GM and a player, especially considering, do we apply (to cards) the chosen class, or the card as written.
2. Memory issues. Do you get to select the class at each level (like abilities) or keep it throughout the entire thing. What is the difference between a human samurai and why couldn't they become a human soldier?
3. Benifits become more rules. Some of the main reasons the game is so fun is because almost everything you need to know to play exists within the magic rules and the cards themselves. Additional rules because of classes make a bigger mess with character creation/leveling and create memory issues.
In support, we have an added level of flavor (though admitadly, its a flavor present in EVERY other RPG - and I personally think that the creature type line is enough of a "class" as is). By forcing the player to stay with their original race, I think it makes perfect sense that an elf shaman could become an elf wizard (if the GM made an elf campaign). The added flavor doesn't offset the additional limitations. Part of a successful game is giving a player a vast number of options - and considering that we are already working within a defined and limited environment (limited to the few hundred or so human characters), it would be a disadvantage to cut that down to the 50 human "wizards" if they chose that type.
My 2 cents...I have no problem recommending it within the GM section of the rules as "optional rules" but forcing players to make that decision seems a bit non-intuitive when leveling. New levels = new experiences = possibly a new trade or skill (he fought so much [ie gained xp] that the cleric is now a soldier. Or the samurai has turned to the blue-end of the color pie and is now a ninja).
Guildmaster Jarad
Some thoughts:
Merchant of Secrets: player draws an extra card at the beginning of combat.
Zombies: Playable race? Cabal Interrogator would be admissable, but probably not Scathe Zombies. I'd say it's conditional depending on the card.
Land Destruction: Disrupts mana flow for everyone?
Removal: you can limit the targets, like in D&D. Spells like Horrid Wilting tend to kill weaker creatures outright, but when used on more powerful creatures, it tends to only deal damage. A lot of damage, but only fatal if they don't have enough hit points left. Problem with this is that it essentially turns Terror into a burn spell.
It's quite an effort to turn Magic into an RPG, but this isn't working out so bad. Can't wait to run around as a wizard with a Yotian Soldier in tow; artifact familiars? Why not? wizards build golems all the time.
Edit: I wasn't aware there was a controversy over classes. In that case: Yes, I believe that classes should be taken into consideration. I also believe that changing classes shouldn't be too hard: Soldier with Samurai would be an OK change, so would rouge with ninja. There should be some limitations, however. Shamen cannot change into wizards or vice versa, though they can turn into Druids. As a general rule, martial style classes cannot turn into spellcasters. Unless you level up and take a card like Shakura-Tribe scout for one level, then make a jump from scout to warrior. Kind of a stretch, but the middleman of the Scout makes it kinda balanced; I.E: you're not just grabbing all the snakes you can find regardless of their training.
THe real controversy, I think, will be over black players. Not a lot of usable black creatures for only one mana, at least not without them changing jobs. (Rag dealer to a wizard, or what have you)
That'll be what it does, yes. Basically, CIP abilities will "reset" and trigger @ the start of each battle/combat.
I'm sticking with a firm NO on zombies as a playable race. They're dumb (with the exception of a few, but I'm trying not to make too many rules that only apply to one or two cards) and far too undead, IMO.
LD will simply be used to "destroy" the lands the GM puts out and turn them into basic lands. Disrupting mana flow for everyone is too dissimilar to what they normally do, IMO, as everyone uses mana instead of land.
The friend I had first played this with suggested the same thing (he knows more about D&D than I do), but again, I think this was fixed by making targets killed this way count half experience, and bosses and players untargetable by these spells/effects.
Artifact familiars? I don't see why not.
With the exception of martial vs spellcaster, I think way too many lines have to be drawn to say who can and can't turn into what. And a simple martial vs spellcaster setup doesn't really add enough flavour to be worth it, IMO.
Racism? Lol, I know that's not what you meant. I don't see a problem with black having very few playable level 1 characters. I noticed this, too, but I guess that just means fewer people will choose to start in black.
Guildmaster Jarad
Guildmaster Jarad
Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
The reason I play black according to CrovaxtheCursed:
@ Your first edit: Players aren't forced to switch colours. First, the choice is optional. Second, they're adding colours, i.e. they keep their old one, but get a new one, too.
@ Your second edit: That is an interesting idea. I think maybe it should be worded as "Instead of sacrificing a creature, you may pay this spell's mana cost." That was it's playable at your current level and you have the option of sacrifing a creature (familiar, or if you're a Summoner, a token). I encourage everyone to playtest this, as well as classes. This game is still in the development stages, after all.
Other notes: I hope to have a page of rules done later tonight (some of the character creation stuff).
And here are a few rules that I like that my brother (Karl the Wolfman) and I came up with:
1) When a player dies, he/she can be ressurected at a nearby town. It's up to the GM how long it takes the remaining players to find a town, i.e. they'll have to travel a bit and get in a few more fights along the way, i.e. the dead player misses out on experience opportunities (penalty #1). The dead player should also lose half their gold, rounded up (penalty #2).
2) In said towns, artifacts are for sale. The GM rolls a d6 to see how many are available, then places that many random (well, random from a larger selection of useful items) artifacts for the players to buy. Also, players may buy food @ 25gp a meal (one per player) to heal 3 health (food found in the wild heals 2 health). Meals can also be fed to familiars.
3) After defeating a boss, the normal "search to find things" rolls are doubled, i.e. each player gets 2 rolls. Additionally, if gold is found, that number could be doubled as well (50gp for a little 150gp for a lot).
EDIT: This experience curve has worked well for me:
Level 2 - 75exp
Level 3 - 225exp
Level 4 - 625exp
Level 5 - 1325exp
Guildmaster Jarad
Btw, I'm honoured that half your posts are on my thread
Guildmaster Jarad
-TotT
Each player in the Magic: Legends world controls his or her own character. Like traditional RPGs, these characters start at Level One and fight monsters to gain experience, thus increasing their level, options, skills, and power. First, however, each player must choose the colour and spells his or her character will have at his or her disposal in the beginning.
Characters are represented by creature cards from the Magic: the Gathering card game. Character level corresponds to the converted mana cost of the creature card. Therefore, to choose a card to represent his or her Level One character, each player must choose a creature with converted mana cost equal to one.
Other restrictions apply, too, because it wouldn’t make much sense for a Myr Mindservant be questing for gold, glory, and to save the world. The two rules to follow when selecting your Level 1 character (or character card of any level, for that matter, but more on that later) are 1) No legendary creatures. The goal of the game is to turn your character into a legend through your adventures, not be one (or be able to become a specific one) from the start. Sorry, Bushi Tenderfoot. And 2) The creature chosen must be of a humanoid sentient race. Again, it doesn’t make sense for an Alabaster Leech to be out to slay dragons and collect riches. (We’d also like to take this moment to doubly apologize to Isamaru, Hound of Konda.) Abiding by these rules, Charm Peddler (whom we’ll use throughout the examples) is a perfectly solid choice for Level One character.
It is recommended that players read through the rest of these rules before selecting a character and especially before starting a game. There are other rules interactions and banned cards (see Chapter 8) that will certainly help players make up – and indeed maybe even change – their mind about their character choice.
Once each player has chosen his or her starting character, it is time for each to make their own spell deck. Spell decks consist of exactly fifteen non-creature cards. The rest of the rules for creating spell decks are as follows.
First, each player must take note of the colour of his or her character. This is the only colour he or she will be using to create the initial spell deck. All fifteen cards much match the colour of the player’s character and only that colour.
Second, spells may be no higher in level than the character. Thus, in the initial spell deck every spell will be Level One, following the same rule as character level. For all creatures, spells, and abilities in the game, level is equal to converted mana cost. (More later on levels with respect to abilities, as they are somewhat of a special case.)
Third, no more than two copies of each spell may be in any one player’s spell deck. This is to keep spell decks from using only four different cards, thus being boring and possibly broken. Following these three rules, our Charm Peddler could use one or two (but no more) copies of Ethereal Haze, Stand Firm, etc.
Guildmaster Jarad
Guildmaster Jarad
and wow, that is an amazing rulebook O_o