Hi, I'm currently working on a tribal set and was looking to get some advice, pointers, and hopefully ideas on making it work.
For this set I wanted to use tribes that don't really get used and try to make them interesting or at the very least playable in their own limited format.
I don't have every tribe figured out but the two I do want to use are Hags for black and Cyclops for red.
For hags I wanted the mechanic to fit in with stories of hags where they form a coven of three. Because hags are prideful and envious having exactly three members means that there will always be someone to break the tie. So therefore, the hag mechanic I came up with is:
Coven -- If you control exactly three hags, [effect].
Hags will focus more on casting spells and enchantments but if you happen to have exactly three hags they will have powerful abilities that can synergize with each other.
Rot-Spewer2B
Creature — Zombie Hag {U}
Deathtouch
Coven -- If you control exactly three hags, then whenever you draw a card, target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
1/2
Sinister Strategist4B
Creature — Hag {U}
Coven -- If you control exactly three hags, then at the beginning of your upkeep you draw a card and lose 1 life.
1/3
For cyclops, I'm not sure what to do. I was thinking of using rampage but it seemed too stale.
But thats what I've got so far, I still need to come up with the other colors and what the cyclops mechanic is but hopefully someone here can help.
For drafting, it's good to have each tribe present in at least two colors. This also gives you a more range in the kinds of effects and creatures you can make.
Hags are definitely an unusual tribe. I like your "Power of Three" concept, though its exactness might be difficult to get it to play well in limited. The best comparison would be the artifact density of 33% in Scars of Mirrodin to support metalcraft. Your deck does nothing when you draw too few hags or your opponent saves removal to keep you off three. If your deck is full of hags and you draw a bunch, most of will sit dead in your hand (though your coven on the board should be winning you the game).
As is, I'd recommend making the hags better at baseline and reducing the potency of the coven effects to reduce the swingy-ness of the mechanic.
It might be better to have effects scale up to a limit of three hags. For example "Put a +1/+1 counter on up to three target hags." or "Draw a card and lose 1 life for each hag you control up to three." This wording might be a little confusing on some effects.
What if hags had a keyword "Toil" (Tap this and two other creatures you control to toil), and then an additional rider "When this toils [do something]." So a hag can tap with any two other creatures to trigger its effect, but if the other creatures are hags, their toil effects will also trigger. You could have assembly-line synergies among effects: "Create a 1/1 frog creature token" -> "Opponents lose 1 life for each hag and frog you control" -> "Sacrifice a creature. Draw a card."
As for cyclops, their main challenge is that they are medium-to-large creatures, which means they must be handled differently from smaller tribes like goblins more elves.
Because cyclops are associated with the Izzet there are several existing cyclops cards that care about instants and sorceries. You could try doing cyclops and in red and blue, with mechanics built around counting instants and sorceries in the graveyard. The play pattern of the deck would be to cast cheap instant and sorcery spells in the early turns, which strengthens the cyclops that you play in the mid and late game. The explicitly tribal effects could go on some of the instants and sorceries, maybe asking you to reveal a cyclops from your hand (like dragon tribal in Dragons of Tarkir).
Thanks for the feedback, eventually I plan to make the tribes dual-color I just want to get all the tribes and their primary color figured out first.
I really like the Toil mechanic you came up with. It does exactly what I was imagining but better because of all the reasons you stated.
I was thinking for cyclops, that they don't all have to be big powerful creatures so if I do Izzet Cyclops (Cyclopes? Cyclopses? Cyclopi?), I figured it could work if there were some smaller cyclops. Something like:
Cyclopean Diviner1U
Creature — Cyclops {C}
When Cyclopean Diviner enters the battlefield, you may reveal a cyclops from your hand. If you do, scry 2.
1/2
Could this work? Of course there would still be big aggressive red cyclops possibly with something like "when this attacks you may exile an instant or sorcery from your graveyard. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature."
The beauty of custom sets is you can do what you want
Wizards has never printed a cyclops smaller than a 3/3 because they have always adhered to the mythological depiction of cyclopes as a type of giants. Making smaller cyclopes would make things a lot easier. You just say on this plane that some cyclops are smaller, or some are big but defensive (2U 1/4) or they are big but have drawbacks like "can't attack or block alone." The important thing for a tribal deck is that is that it's mana curve isn't too skewed.
The other challenge is the popular conception of cyclops that stems from the Odyssey. The "community" of cyclopes in the Odyssey were totally unhelpful when Polyphemus gets his eye poked out. But now that I think about it, there is another other depiction of cyclopes in Greek mythology–Arges, Brontes, and Steropes–who worked for Hephaestus and forged thunderbolts for Zeus. That depiction would fit well with a blue-red instants and sorceries theme or maybe a white-red equipment smithing theme.
The only other thing I can think of is that Polyphemus kept goats and sheep. I've always found dual-tribe themes interesting (Ogres and Demons in Kamigawa), so how about Goat/Cyclops mutualism.
Thanks, good to hear the idea doesn't seem too farfetched.
I've been tinkering with the idea of doing boros goats for this set so that greek mythos fact seems like the perfect excuse to make them.
So far it seems like im stuck into enemy color tribes with some inter-tribal synergies, now to figure out the other tribes.
Izzet Cyclopes (Focused on instants and sorceries.)
Boros Goats (I'm thinking they get some kind of bonus for being tapped, that way they can be aggressive for splashing in the cyclopes deck and they can get benefits from Toiling in the Hags deck.)
Golgari Plants (Something to do with lands? +1/+1 counters? Tokens? Not sure yet.)
Simic (Still not sure what to do here. Debating between trolls, mutants, or trying to bring back alchemists.)
Orzhov Hags (Toiling and enchantments.)
Also for this set I was thinking of using Eye Gouge as a reprint:
Eye-GougeB
Instant {C}
Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. If it's a Cyclops, destroy it.
Would that be too good of a hoser in a set like this? Would a cycle of cards like this (one for each tribe, although with differing effects) be too powerful?
For example:
Burn at the Stake1R
Sorcery {C}
Burn at the Stake deals 3 damage to target creature. If its a hag, it deals 5 damage instead.
•Izzet Cyclops
- Small blue cyclops provide card draw and copy effects for spells.
- Big red cyclops are threats, deal damage, and can be revealed to spells for a benefit.
•Boros Goats
- Keyword: Graze "When this creature becomes tapped, you may either gain 1 life or have it deal 1 damage to target creature.".
- White goats care more about having lots of creatures and life gain.
- Red goats care about attacking and being tapped.
•Orzhov Hags
- Keyword: Toil "Tap this and two other creatures you control.".
- White hags care about life gain, damage prevention, token making, etc.
- Black hags care about toiling, discard, and creature destruction.
• Simic Trolls
- Green trolls care about pumping creatures and damage prevention.
- Blue trolls care about preventing things (countering spells, giving themselves hexproof, etc.).
• Golgari Plants
- Keyword: Sprout X "This enters the battlefield with X sprout counters on it. Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, remove a sprout counter from it."
-Black plants care about slowing down the game and getting late term value.
- Green plants care about speeding up the game and getting short term value.
--------------------------------
Here's a card for each tribe and color:
Volumyr, See-Grah's Seer1U
Legendary Creature — Cyclops Advisor{R}
Whenever you reveal a Cyclops as part of casting a spell, copy that spell. 2U: Draw a card for each spell cast this turn. See-Grah's trusted advisor, Volumyr, was unknowingly her greatest enemy.
0/2
Torch-Eater3R
Creature — Cyclops {U}
Whenever Torch-Eater attacks, exile a card from your graveyard. If you exile an instant or sorcery this way, put a +1/+1 counter on Torch-Eater.
3/3
Bolting KidR
Creature — Goat {C}
Haste
Graze (When this creature becomes tapped, you may either gain 1 life or have this creature deal 1 damage to target creature.) The goats of Bolgrath are known not to be hostile but rather just looking for something fun to hit
1/1
Stubborn Horn3W
Creature — Goat {U}
Stubborn Horn enters the battlefield tapped.
As long as Stubborn Horn is tapped only one creature can attack each combat.
3/3
Grismela, Coven Crafter3B
Legendary Creature — Hag {R}
Toil
Whenever Grismela, Coven Crafter toils, untap all other hags you control.
Other hags you control get +1/+1.
3/4
Medlan, Lady of the Field1WW
Legendary Creature — Hag {R}
Whenever you gain life, create a 1/1 white goat creature token.
Sacrifice a goat: Target creature gains lifelink until end of turn.
1/3
Troll-kin SeerU
Creature — Troll {C}
Remove a +1/+1 counter from a creature you control: Scry 1. "The Troll-kin follow what they believe to be the path to perfection, but how exactly do they know where that path lies?" -- Volumyr, See-Grah's Seer
1/1
Bark-Skin Druid2G
Creature — Troll Druid {U} 3G: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
Remove a +1/+1 counter from Bark-Skin Druid: Target creature gets +0/+4 until end of turn.
3/3
Divining BlossomG
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 1 (This creature enters the battlefield with a sprout counter on it. Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, remove a sprout counter from it.)
When the last sprout counter is removed from Divining Blossom, draw a card. Ograpaum, leader of the troll-kin believes that these small blossoms could contain the cure for Jarris' illness.
1/1
Hadon, Blooming Infestation4BB
Legendary Creature — Plant Horror {R}
Sprout 6
Whenever a sprout counter is removed from Hadon, Blooming Infestation, create a 1/1 black insect creature token with deathrouch.
Whenever a nontoken creature dies, put a sprout counter on Hadon, Blooming Infestation.
5/5
--------------------------------
Theorized limited archetypes: UR: Cyclops Spells UG: +1/+1 counters GB: Sprout Tempo RW: Go Wide Aggro WB: Toil Tempo RB: Burn RG: Go Tall Aggro UB: Control WU: Weenie WG: Ramp
--------------------------------
Since I had fun coming up with the tribes, I've decided that I'm going to make this into a two set block. With this set focusing on half of the guild color combos and the next one (once im done with this one.) will focus on the other half.
As for lore stuff, (I'm not much of a writer.):
"Have you ever felt unwanted? Unneeded? Felt like there were others who did something better than you? If so, then be careful that you are not called to the plane of Bolgrath.
The plane of Bolgrath seeks out those with problems of feeling lost or unwanted and sucks them in. On this plane, the main residents are the Cyclopes of the Sea-Brisk Cliffs, the Troll-kin of the Waterlogged Weald, the Hags of the Sun-Baked Mire, the sentient Plants in the Moonlit Bogs, and the Goat farmers of the Searing Fields.
While Bolgrath seeks out the lonely and disparate, it doesnt seem to be able to contain them all. The plane of Bolgrath is not very large and thus conflicts between the residents are ever-present.
However, See-Grah, leader of the cyclopes has discovered that the Troll-kin hold something that can show the predetermined path of fate and with it, she aims to conquer Bolgrath."
Yeah, I built a pauper cube a few years ago and I put Eye Gouge + a bunch of cyclops in it.
If you do make two sets, I'd recommend trying out a bunch of tribes (10+), before narrowing it down to the ten that interest you the most and dividing them into two color-balanced sets of 5. That way you can pair tribes together that best compliment and contrast each other.
I'd think about how each tribe works together as a deck. The plants having a split aggro/control focus seems like it might discourage you from putting green and black plants together. I like the way you described the cyclopes better, where red and blue cyclopes contribute their colors effects to a unified game plan. This is more something to do on the level of individual rare cards that push a tribal archetype in a specific direction.
Plants are another tricky tribe because it is hard to distinguish them thematically from treefolk, elementals, and fungus. If you wanted a weird take on plants, what about moving them to green/red? You know how some forest ecosystems are adapted to burn down periodically and then regrow rapidly? The plant people use their own dead leaves and twigs to power their pyromancy. See Creeping Trailblazer from the M2020 spoiler.
Not a big fan of Graze mechanic for goats. For one thing, it let's mono-red and mono-white cards do things they are not supposed to. I wouldn't worry about finding a keyword mechanic for each tribe, and I'd be careful about defining each tribe too narrowly around a mechanic, because it limits the types of creature card you can make (For example, its hard to do tribal with subtypes that by convention are expected to have flying, deathtouch, or some other keyword).
Will let you know if I think of any more ideas/solutions.
So for the cycle of creature type hate cards i decided to make them higher costed with cost reductions based on the target.
Blinding Darkness2B
Instant {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Cyclops.
Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
-----------------------------------
With the plants I'm not sure I could move them to RG (at least in this set) cause then I'd have to change some of the other tribes colors so that way there are an equal distribution of tribes to colors.
W: Goats and Hags U: Trolls and Cyclops B: Hags and Plants R: Cyclops and Goats G: Plants and Trolls
I think if I were to do the second set I'd just expand off this one and help the tribes bleed into a third color, that way the tribes could more easily meld.
I was also considering doing artifact creatures or changelings as a buffer between tribes.
As for the Graze mechanic, I'll admit I was focusing more on the boros aspect and the fact that it worked with the toil mechanic than what the colors individually should/shouldn't do, I'm probably going to change it to random pumps and abilities that trigger when they become tapped instead.
Ok so here are the commons as I currently have them, if any stand out or seem out of place be sure to let me know (also if someone could tell me an easier way to divy these up on here without making such a huge list that'd be helpful):
][WHITE][
Wandering HealerW
Creature — Hag {C}
Toil
Whenever ~ toils, you gain 2 life.
1/1
Goat-Rider Hag1W
Creature — Hag {C}
Tap a Goat you control: ~ gains haste and first strike until end of turn.
2/2
Coven Keeper1W
Creature — Hag {C}
Toil
Whenever ~ toils, target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
1/1
Departed Shepherd2W
Creature — Spirit {C}
Flying
Sacrifice ~: Untap each Goat you control.
2/2
Playful Ram2W
Creature — Goat {C}
When ~ becomes untapped it gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
2/3
Grizzled Protector3W
Creature — Goat {C}
~ has first strike as long as its blocking.
3/2
Foretell SanctityW
Sorcery {C}
Target creature gains indestructible until end of turn. Scry 1.
Herbivore's Hunger2W
Instant {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Plant.
~ deals 4 damage to target attacking or blocking creature.
Battering Horns2W
Enchantment — Aura {C}
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains first strike, if enchanted creature is a Goat it also gets +1/+1.
][BLUE][
Troll-kin SeerU
Creature — Troll {C}
Remove a +1/+1 counter from a creature you control: Scry 1.
1/1
Cyclopean Diviner1U
Creature — Cyclops {C}
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may reveal a Cyclops from your hand. If you do, draw a card.
1/2
River Watcher1U
Creature — Troll Druid {C}
When ~ enters the battlefield choose one:
•Put a +1/+1 counter on target troll.
• Scry 2.
2/2
Initiate of Fate1UU
Creature — Troll Druid {C}
Flash
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may counter target noncreature spell.
2/2
Arcane Intruder3U
Creature — Cyclops {C} 4U: Creatures can't be blocked this turn, this ability costs 1 less to activate for each Cyclops you've revealed this turn.
1/4
Mutated Skulker4UU
Creature — Troll Mutant {C}
When ~ deals combat damage to a player put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Remove a +1/+1 counter from ~: ~ can't be blocked this turn.
2/4
BeholdU
Instant {C}
Look at the top two cards of target player's library, then draw a card.
Cyclopean Schematics1U
Instant {C}
Reveal the top three cards of your library, you may put an instant, sorcery, or artifact from among them into your hand. Shuffle the rest into your library.
Predicted Outcome1UU
Instant {C}
Counter target spell. You may return a creature you control to its owner's hand.
Foretell InnovationU
Sorcery {C}
Target creature gains flying until end of turn. Scry 1.
Wash Out2U
Sorcery {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Hag.
Tap target creature, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
Dispelling Flesh1U
Enchantment — Aura {C}
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains hexproof, if enchanted creature is a Troll also put a +1/+1 counter on it.
][BLACK][
Wicked WitchB
Creature — Hag {C}
When ~ becomes tapped, target opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
1/1
Bog Creeper1B
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 1 [i](This enters the battlefield with a sprout counter on it. Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, remove a sprout counter from it.)
When the last sprout counter is removed from ~, target player discards a card.
1/2
Rot-Fruit Tree1B
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 3
Whenever a sprout counter is removed from ~, remove a counter from target creature an opponent controls.
0/3
Tangled MessBB
Creature — Plant Horror {C}
Sprout 6
When the last sprout counter is removed from ~, put six +1/+1 counters on it.
2/2
Mold-Chew Witch2B
Creature — Hag {C}
When ~ enters the battlefield, target opponent sacrifices a Plant they control.
3/3
Grave Tiller3B
Creature — Hag Druid {C}
When ~ becomes untapped, you may put the top card of your library into your graveyard.
3/4
Cursing Mother2BB
Creature — Hag {C}
4/4
Foretell TragedyB
Sorcery {C}
Target creature gains deathtouch until end of turn. Scry 1.
Blind Strike2B
Instant {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Cyclops.
Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
Cut the Thread3BB
Sorcery {C}
~ costs 1 less to cast for each Hag you control.
Destroy target creature or planeswalker.
Lifting Shadows1B
Enchantment — Aura {C}
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1, if enchanted creature is a Hag it also gains flying.
][RED][
Bolting KidR
Creature — Goat {C}
Haste
1/1
Barbed Charger1R
Creature — Goat {C}
Haste
When ~ becomes tapped, it deals 1 damage target creature.
2/2
Clifftop Hurler3R
Creature — Cyclops {C}
When ~ enters the battlefield, it deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is the number of instants and sorceries cast this turn.
4/4
One-Eyed Thrasher3R
Creature — Cyclops {C}
Whenever you reveal ~, target creature gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
3/3
See-Grah's Berserker3RR
Creature — Cyclops Berserker {C}
When ~ attacks, target creature must block it if able.
If you cast an instant or sorcery this turn, ~ gets +3/+0 until end of turn.
4/4
See-Grah's Breaker4RR
Creature — Cyclops Juggernaut {C}
~ attacks each turn if able.
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery, untap ~.
6/5
Shocking SurpriseR
Instant {C}
As an additional cost to cast ~, pay 2 or reveal a Cyclops from your hand.
~ deals 3 damage to any target.
Butcher2R
Instant {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Goat.
~ deals 4 damage to target creature.
Pull the Reins3R
Sorcery {C}
Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap it and it gains haste.
Foretell DisasterR
Sorcery {C}
Target creature gains haste until end of turn. Scry 1.
Blind Rage2R
Enchantment — Aura {C}
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature attacks each turn if able, if enchanted creature is a Cyclops it gets +1/+1.
][GREEN][
Divining BlossomG
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 1
When the last sprout counter is removed from ~, draw a card.
1/1
Beast Tamer TrollGG
Creature — Troll Shaman {C}
~ enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it.
Remove a +1/+1 counter from ~: Target creature you control fights another target creature.
1/1
Savage Troll-kin1GG
Creature — Troll {C} XXG: Put X +1/+1 counters on ~.
Remove a +1/+1 counter from ~: Prevent all damage that would be dealt to ~ this turn.
2/3
Warden of the Wilds2G
Creature — Troll Druid {C}
Remove a +1/+1 counter from a creature you control: create a 1/1 green plant creature token.
3/3
Expanding Troll-kin3G
Creature — Troll Mutant {C}
Sacrifice a land: Put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
3/3
Carnivorous Conifer2GG
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 3
When the last sprout counter is removed from ~, it gets +3/+3 and trample until end of turn.
3/4
Walking Woodland5GG
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 1
When the last sprout counter is removed from ~, it gains defender.
7/7
Assert Dominance2G
Instant {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Troll.
Remove all counters from target creature an opponent controls.
Foretell DestinyG
Sorcery {C}
Target creature gains trample until end of turn. Scry 1.
Florescent Foliage3G
Enchantment — Aura {C}
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature has reach, if enchanted creature is a Plant it also gets +1/+1.
Two favorite cards. Wash Out and Cut the Thread. Cut is perfect. Wash Out is just the right hosing effect for hags, but it's weak. It needs to be cheaper, tap two creatures, or come with a body. Maybe a creature that taps a target, and the target stays tapped for a turn if its a hag.
Besides that there are plenty of little balance and color-pie issues. Some of the cards would not normally see print at common if that is something you want to worry about it. Don't worry about it too much at this point.
The cyclopes cards seem to have variations on the reveal mechanic: When this cyclops is revealed, reveal another cyclops, count how many cyclops are revealed, etc... This is good for testing. Eventually you may want to make them work more consistently, especially at common.
It can be iffy to have both +1/+1 counters and sprout counters in the same set since players can get confused about what the counters on a creature represent (although in this set there is generally a creature type delineation). I had an idea for elemental tribal a while back that might apply well to plants. Put most off the tribal support for plants on lands, then give some of the plants effects that dig for lands.
Planning to test? You almost have enough to throw together some rough limited decks.
Glad ssome of the cards are good, I was considering putting Wash Out as tap two target creatures but the cost reduction seemed like it could be weird (target two hags and it costs 2 less?) But i can just remove the cost reduction in favor of tapping an additional target.
I was worried some of these cards might be a bit strong for common, but I'll worry about it later.
I like the plants and lands idea, but would that mean I'd have to design a bunch of black green lands to give them decent support? I don't want one tribe to have more lands than another.
Yeah, I'd really like to playtest what I have (I don't have any decklists made yet though.). Unfortunately, I don't have much of a way to do so out side of using index cards as proxies.
For play-testing, have you heard of Magic Set Editor? It can format custom magic cards and print sheets of proxies. It's a windows program, but there are ways to get it to run on mac.
Cyclopses have one eye, Homunculi have one eye, and then Eyes are, well, an Eye. You could make a historic-like batch word that cares about all three creature types or just some cards that specifically care about them.
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For this set I wanted to use tribes that don't really get used and try to make them interesting or at the very least playable in their own limited format.
I don't have every tribe figured out but the two I do want to use are Hags for black and Cyclops for red.
For hags I wanted the mechanic to fit in with stories of hags where they form a coven of three. Because hags are prideful and envious having exactly three members means that there will always be someone to break the tie. So therefore, the hag mechanic I came up with is:
Coven -- If you control exactly three hags, [effect].
Hags will focus more on casting spells and enchantments but if you happen to have exactly three hags they will have powerful abilities that can synergize with each other.
Rot-Spewer 2B
Creature — Zombie Hag {U}
Deathtouch
Coven -- If you control exactly three hags, then whenever you draw a card, target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
1/2
Sinister Strategist 4B
Creature — Hag {U}
Coven -- If you control exactly three hags, then at the beginning of your upkeep you draw a card and lose 1 life.
1/3
For cyclops, I'm not sure what to do. I was thinking of using rampage but it seemed too stale.
But thats what I've got so far, I still need to come up with the other colors and what the cyclops mechanic is but hopefully someone here can help.
Hags are definitely an unusual tribe. I like your "Power of Three" concept, though its exactness might be difficult to get it to play well in limited. The best comparison would be the artifact density of 33% in Scars of Mirrodin to support metalcraft. Your deck does nothing when you draw too few hags or your opponent saves removal to keep you off three. If your deck is full of hags and you draw a bunch, most of will sit dead in your hand (though your coven on the board should be winning you the game).
As is, I'd recommend making the hags better at baseline and reducing the potency of the coven effects to reduce the swingy-ness of the mechanic.
It might be better to have effects scale up to a limit of three hags. For example "Put a +1/+1 counter on up to three target hags." or "Draw a card and lose 1 life for each hag you control up to three." This wording might be a little confusing on some effects.
What if hags had a keyword "Toil" (Tap this and two other creatures you control to toil), and then an additional rider "When this toils [do something]." So a hag can tap with any two other creatures to trigger its effect, but if the other creatures are hags, their toil effects will also trigger. You could have assembly-line synergies among effects: "Create a 1/1 frog creature token" -> "Opponents lose 1 life for each hag and frog you control" -> "Sacrifice a creature. Draw a card."
As for cyclops, their main challenge is that they are medium-to-large creatures, which means they must be handled differently from smaller tribes like goblins more elves.
Because cyclops are associated with the Izzet there are several existing cyclops cards that care about instants and sorceries. You could try doing cyclops and in red and blue, with mechanics built around counting instants and sorceries in the graveyard. The play pattern of the deck would be to cast cheap instant and sorcery spells in the early turns, which strengthens the cyclops that you play in the mid and late game. The explicitly tribal effects could go on some of the instants and sorceries, maybe asking you to reveal a cyclops from your hand (like dragon tribal in Dragons of Tarkir).
Tribal suggestions/requests: Centaur, Clamfolk, Egg, Eye, Gamer, Goat, Hatificer, Kangaroo, Salamander, Weird.
I really like the Toil mechanic you came up with. It does exactly what I was imagining but better because of all the reasons you stated.
I was thinking for cyclops, that they don't all have to be big powerful creatures so if I do Izzet Cyclops (Cyclopes? Cyclopses? Cyclopi?), I figured it could work if there were some smaller cyclops. Something like:
Cyclopean Diviner 1U
Creature — Cyclops {C}
When Cyclopean Diviner enters the battlefield, you may reveal a cyclops from your hand. If you do, scry 2.
1/2
Could this work? Of course there would still be big aggressive red cyclops possibly with something like "when this attacks you may exile an instant or sorcery from your graveyard. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature."
Wizards has never printed a cyclops smaller than a 3/3 because they have always adhered to the mythological depiction of cyclopes as a type of giants. Making smaller cyclopes would make things a lot easier. You just say on this plane that some cyclops are smaller, or some are big but defensive (2U 1/4) or they are big but have drawbacks like "can't attack or block alone." The important thing for a tribal deck is that is that it's mana curve isn't too skewed.
The other challenge is the popular conception of cyclops that stems from the Odyssey. The "community" of cyclopes in the Odyssey were totally unhelpful when Polyphemus gets his eye poked out. But now that I think about it, there is another other depiction of cyclopes in Greek mythology–Arges, Brontes, and Steropes–who worked for Hephaestus and forged thunderbolts for Zeus. That depiction would fit well with a blue-red instants and sorceries theme or maybe a white-red equipment smithing theme.
The only other thing I can think of is that Polyphemus kept goats and sheep. I've always found dual-tribe themes interesting (Ogres and Demons in Kamigawa), so how about Goat/Cyclops mutualism.
I've been tinkering with the idea of doing boros goats for this set so that greek mythos fact seems like the perfect excuse to make them.
So far it seems like im stuck into enemy color tribes with some inter-tribal synergies, now to figure out the other tribes.
Izzet Cyclopes (Focused on instants and sorceries.)
Boros Goats (I'm thinking they get some kind of bonus for being tapped, that way they can be aggressive for splashing in the cyclopes deck and they can get benefits from Toiling in the Hags deck.)
Golgari Plants (Something to do with lands? +1/+1 counters? Tokens? Not sure yet.)
Simic (Still not sure what to do here. Debating between trolls, mutants, or trying to bring back alchemists.)
Orzhov Hags (Toiling and enchantments.)
Also for this set I was thinking of using Eye Gouge as a reprint:
Eye-Gouge B
Instant {C}
Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. If it's a Cyclops, destroy it.
Would that be too good of a hoser in a set like this? Would a cycle of cards like this (one for each tribe, although with differing effects) be too powerful?
For example:
Burn at the Stake 1R
Sorcery {C}
Burn at the Stake deals 3 damage to target creature. If its a hag, it deals 5 damage instead.
•Izzet Cyclops
- Small blue cyclops provide card draw and copy effects for spells.
- Big red cyclops are threats, deal damage, and can be revealed to spells for a benefit.
•Boros Goats
- Keyword: Graze "When this creature becomes tapped, you may either gain 1 life or have it deal 1 damage to target creature.".
- White goats care more about having lots of creatures and life gain.
- Red goats care about attacking and being tapped.
•Orzhov Hags
- Keyword: Toil "Tap this and two other creatures you control.".
- White hags care about life gain, damage prevention, token making, etc.
- Black hags care about toiling, discard, and creature destruction.
• Simic Trolls
- Green trolls care about pumping creatures and damage prevention.
- Blue trolls care about preventing things (countering spells, giving themselves hexproof, etc.).
• Golgari Plants
- Keyword: Sprout X "This enters the battlefield with X sprout counters on it. Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, remove a sprout counter from it."
-Black plants care about slowing down the game and getting late term value.
- Green plants care about speeding up the game and getting short term value.
--------------------------------
Here's a card for each tribe and color:
Volumyr, See-Grah's Seer 1U
Legendary Creature — Cyclops Advisor{R}
Whenever you reveal a Cyclops as part of casting a spell, copy that spell.
2U: Draw a card for each spell cast this turn.
See-Grah's trusted advisor, Volumyr, was unknowingly her greatest enemy.
0/2
Torch-Eater 3R
Creature — Cyclops {U}
Whenever Torch-Eater attacks, exile a card from your graveyard. If you exile an instant or sorcery this way, put a +1/+1 counter on Torch-Eater.
3/3
Bolting Kid R
Creature — Goat {C}
Haste
Graze (When this creature becomes tapped, you may either gain 1 life or have this creature deal 1 damage to target creature.)
The goats of Bolgrath are known not to be hostile but rather just looking for something fun to hit
1/1
Stubborn Horn 3W
Creature — Goat {U}
Stubborn Horn enters the battlefield tapped.
As long as Stubborn Horn is tapped only one creature can attack each combat.
3/3
Grismela, Coven Crafter 3B
Legendary Creature — Hag {R}
Toil
Whenever Grismela, Coven Crafter toils, untap all other hags you control.
Other hags you control get +1/+1.
3/4
Medlan, Lady of the Field 1WW
Legendary Creature — Hag {R}
Whenever you gain life, create a 1/1 white goat creature token.
Sacrifice a goat: Target creature gains lifelink until end of turn.
1/3
Troll-kin Seer U
Creature — Troll {C}
Remove a +1/+1 counter from a creature you control: Scry 1.
"The Troll-kin follow what they believe to be the path to perfection, but how exactly do they know where that path lies?" -- Volumyr, See-Grah's Seer
1/1
Bark-Skin Druid 2G
Creature — Troll Druid {U}
3G: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
Remove a +1/+1 counter from Bark-Skin Druid: Target creature gets +0/+4 until end of turn.
3/3
Divining Blossom G
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 1 (This creature enters the battlefield with a sprout counter on it. Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, remove a sprout counter from it.)
When the last sprout counter is removed from Divining Blossom, draw a card.
Ograpaum, leader of the troll-kin believes that these small blossoms could contain the cure for Jarris' illness.
1/1
Hadon, Blooming Infestation 4BB
Legendary Creature — Plant Horror {R}
Sprout 6
Whenever a sprout counter is removed from Hadon, Blooming Infestation, create a 1/1 black insect creature token with deathrouch.
Whenever a nontoken creature dies, put a sprout counter on Hadon, Blooming Infestation.
5/5
--------------------------------
Theorized limited archetypes:
UR: Cyclops Spells
UG: +1/+1 counters
GB: Sprout Tempo
RW: Go Wide Aggro
WB: Toil Tempo
RB: Burn
RG: Go Tall Aggro
UB: Control
WU: Weenie
WG: Ramp
--------------------------------
Since I had fun coming up with the tribes, I've decided that I'm going to make this into a two set block. With this set focusing on half of the guild color combos and the next one (once im done with this one.) will focus on the other half.
As for lore stuff, (I'm not much of a writer.):
"Have you ever felt unwanted? Unneeded? Felt like there were others who did something better than you? If so, then be careful that you are not called to the plane of Bolgrath.
The plane of Bolgrath seeks out those with problems of feeling lost or unwanted and sucks them in. On this plane, the main residents are the Cyclopes of the Sea-Brisk Cliffs, the Troll-kin of the Waterlogged Weald, the Hags of the Sun-Baked Mire, the sentient Plants in the Moonlit Bogs, and the Goat farmers of the Searing Fields.
While Bolgrath seeks out the lonely and disparate, it doesnt seem to be able to contain them all. The plane of Bolgrath is not very large and thus conflicts between the residents are ever-present.
However, See-Grah, leader of the cyclopes has discovered that the Troll-kin hold something that can show the predetermined path of fate and with it, she aims to conquer Bolgrath."
If you do make two sets, I'd recommend trying out a bunch of tribes (10+), before narrowing it down to the ten that interest you the most and dividing them into two color-balanced sets of 5. That way you can pair tribes together that best compliment and contrast each other.
I'd think about how each tribe works together as a deck. The plants having a split aggro/control focus seems like it might discourage you from putting green and black plants together. I like the way you described the cyclopes better, where red and blue cyclopes contribute their colors effects to a unified game plan. This is more something to do on the level of individual rare cards that push a tribal archetype in a specific direction.
Plants are another tricky tribe because it is hard to distinguish them thematically from treefolk, elementals, and fungus. If you wanted a weird take on plants, what about moving them to green/red? You know how some forest ecosystems are adapted to burn down periodically and then regrow rapidly? The plant people use their own dead leaves and twigs to power their pyromancy. See Creeping Trailblazer from the M2020 spoiler.
Not a big fan of Graze mechanic for goats. For one thing, it let's mono-red and mono-white cards do things they are not supposed to. I wouldn't worry about finding a keyword mechanic for each tribe, and I'd be careful about defining each tribe too narrowly around a mechanic, because it limits the types of creature card you can make (For example, its hard to do tribal with subtypes that by convention are expected to have flying, deathtouch, or some other keyword).
Will let you know if I think of any more ideas/solutions.
Blinding Darkness 2B
Instant {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Cyclops.
Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
-----------------------------------
With the plants I'm not sure I could move them to RG (at least in this set) cause then I'd have to change some of the other tribes colors so that way there are an equal distribution of tribes to colors.
W: Goats and Hags
U: Trolls and Cyclops
B: Hags and Plants
R: Cyclops and Goats
G: Plants and Trolls
I think if I were to do the second set I'd just expand off this one and help the tribes bleed into a third color, that way the tribes could more easily meld.
Something like:
URB Cyclops
WRG Goats
UGW Trolls
WBU Hags
GBR Plants
Or:
URW Cyclops
WRB Goats
UGR Trolls
WBG Hags
GBU Plants
I was also considering doing artifact creatures or changelings as a buffer between tribes.
As for the Graze mechanic, I'll admit I was focusing more on the boros aspect and the fact that it worked with the toil mechanic than what the colors individually should/shouldn't do, I'm probably going to change it to random pumps and abilities that trigger when they become tapped instead.
][WHITE][
Wandering Healer W
Creature — Hag {C}
Toil
Whenever ~ toils, you gain 2 life.
1/1
Goat-Rider Hag 1W
Creature — Hag {C}
Tap a Goat you control: ~ gains haste and first strike until end of turn.
2/2
Coven Keeper 1W
Creature — Hag {C}
Toil
Whenever ~ toils, target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
1/1
Departed Shepherd 2W
Creature — Spirit {C}
Flying
Sacrifice ~: Untap each Goat you control.
2/2
Playful Ram 2W
Creature — Goat {C}
When ~ becomes untapped it gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
2/3
Grizzled Protector 3W
Creature — Goat {C}
~ has first strike as long as its blocking.
3/2
Grazing Guardian 2WW
Creature — Goat {C}
Vigilance
4/4
Foretell Sanctity W
Sorcery {C}
Target creature gains indestructible until end of turn. Scry 1.
Herbivore's Hunger 2W
Instant {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Plant.
~ deals 4 damage to target attacking or blocking creature.
Battering Horns 2W
Enchantment — Aura {C}
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains first strike, if enchanted creature is a Goat it also gets +1/+1.
][BLUE][
Troll-kin Seer U
Creature — Troll {C}
Remove a +1/+1 counter from a creature you control: Scry 1.
1/1
Cyclopean Diviner 1U
Creature — Cyclops {C}
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may reveal a Cyclops from your hand. If you do, draw a card.
1/2
River Watcher 1U
Creature — Troll Druid {C}
When ~ enters the battlefield choose one:
•Put a +1/+1 counter on target troll.
• Scry 2.
2/2
Initiate of Fate 1UU
Creature — Troll Druid {C}
Flash
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may counter target noncreature spell.
2/2
Arcane Intruder 3U
Creature — Cyclops {C}
4U: Creatures can't be blocked this turn, this ability costs 1 less to activate for each Cyclops you've revealed this turn.
1/4
Mutated Skulker 4UU
Creature — Troll Mutant {C}
When ~ deals combat damage to a player put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Remove a +1/+1 counter from ~: ~ can't be blocked this turn.
2/4
Behold U
Instant {C}
Look at the top two cards of target player's library, then draw a card.
Cyclopean Schematics 1U
Instant {C}
Reveal the top three cards of your library, you may put an instant, sorcery, or artifact from among them into your hand. Shuffle the rest into your library.
Predicted Outcome 1UU
Instant {C}
Counter target spell. You may return a creature you control to its owner's hand.
Foretell Innovation U
Sorcery {C}
Target creature gains flying until end of turn. Scry 1.
Wash Out 2U
Sorcery {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Hag.
Tap target creature, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
Dispelling Flesh 1U
Enchantment — Aura {C}
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains hexproof, if enchanted creature is a Troll also put a +1/+1 counter on it.
][BLACK][
Wicked Witch B
Creature — Hag {C}
When ~ becomes tapped, target opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
1/1
Bog Creeper 1B
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 1 [i](This enters the battlefield with a sprout counter on it. Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, remove a sprout counter from it.)
When the last sprout counter is removed from ~, target player discards a card.
1/2
Rot-Fruit Tree 1B
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 3
Whenever a sprout counter is removed from ~, remove a counter from target creature an opponent controls.
0/3
Tangled Mess BB
Creature — Plant Horror {C}
Sprout 6
When the last sprout counter is removed from ~, put six +1/+1 counters on it.
2/2
Mold-Chew Witch 2B
Creature — Hag {C}
When ~ enters the battlefield, target opponent sacrifices a Plant they control.
3/3
Grave Tiller 3B
Creature — Hag Druid {C}
When ~ becomes untapped, you may put the top card of your library into your graveyard.
3/4
Cursing Mother 2BB
Creature — Hag {C}
4/4
Foretell Tragedy B
Sorcery {C}
Target creature gains deathtouch until end of turn. Scry 1.
Blind Strike 2B
Instant {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Cyclops.
Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
Cut the Thread 3BB
Sorcery {C}
~ costs 1 less to cast for each Hag you control.
Destroy target creature or planeswalker.
Lifting Shadows 1B
Enchantment — Aura {C}
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1, if enchanted creature is a Hag it also gains flying.
][RED][
Bolting Kid R
Creature — Goat {C}
Haste
1/1
Barbed Charger 1R
Creature — Goat {C}
Haste
When ~ becomes tapped, it deals 1 damage target creature.
2/2
Clifftop Hurler 3R
Creature — Cyclops {C}
When ~ enters the battlefield, it deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is the number of instants and sorceries cast this turn.
4/4
One-Eyed Thrasher 3R
Creature — Cyclops {C}
Whenever you reveal ~, target creature gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
3/3
See-Grah's Berserker 3RR
Creature — Cyclops Berserker {C}
When ~ attacks, target creature must block it if able.
If you cast an instant or sorcery this turn, ~ gets +3/+0 until end of turn.
4/4
See-Grah's Breaker 4RR
Creature — Cyclops Juggernaut {C}
~ attacks each turn if able.
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery, untap ~.
6/5
Shocking Surprise R
Instant {C}
As an additional cost to cast ~, pay 2 or reveal a Cyclops from your hand.
~ deals 3 damage to any target.
Butcher 2R
Instant {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Goat.
~ deals 4 damage to target creature.
Pull the Reins 3R
Sorcery {C}
Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap it and it gains haste.
Foretell Disaster R
Sorcery {C}
Target creature gains haste until end of turn. Scry 1.
Blind Rage 2R
Enchantment — Aura {C}
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature attacks each turn if able, if enchanted creature is a Cyclops it gets +1/+1.
][GREEN][
Divining Blossom G
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 1
When the last sprout counter is removed from ~, draw a card.
1/1
Beast Tamer Troll GG
Creature — Troll Shaman {C}
~ enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it.
Remove a +1/+1 counter from ~: Target creature you control fights another target creature.
1/1
Savage Troll-kin 1GG
Creature — Troll {C}
XXG: Put X +1/+1 counters on ~.
Remove a +1/+1 counter from ~: Prevent all damage that would be dealt to ~ this turn.
2/3
Warden of the Wilds 2G
Creature — Troll Druid {C}
Remove a +1/+1 counter from a creature you control: create a 1/1 green plant creature token.
3/3
Expanding Troll-kin 3G
Creature — Troll Mutant {C}
Sacrifice a land: Put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
3/3
Carnivorous Conifer 2GG
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 3
When the last sprout counter is removed from ~, it gets +3/+3 and trample until end of turn.
3/4
Walking Woodland 5GG
Creature — Plant {C}
Sprout 1
When the last sprout counter is removed from ~, it gains defender.
7/7
Assert Dominance 2G
Instant {C}
This spell costs 1 less to cast if it targets a Troll.
Remove all counters from target creature an opponent controls.
Foretell Destiny G
Sorcery {C}
Target creature gains trample until end of turn. Scry 1.
Florescent Foliage 3G
Enchantment — Aura {C}
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature has reach, if enchanted creature is a Plant it also gets +1/+1.
][Colorless][
Redirecting Map 1
Artifact {C}
Sacrifice ~: Untap target land.
Forgotten Golem 2
Artifact Creature — Golem {C}
Defender
1/3
Seer's Stone 2
Artifact {C}
2, T: Scry 1.
Volatile Golem 4
Artifact Creature — Golem {C}
When ~ dies, it deals 2 damage to you.
Sacrifice ~: Each player draws a card.
3/3
Shepherd's Crook 2
Artifact — Equipment {C}
Equipped creature has +1/+1 and "1: Tap target Goat."
Equip 2
Besides that there are plenty of little balance and color-pie issues. Some of the cards would not normally see print at common if that is something you want to worry about it. Don't worry about it too much at this point.
The cyclopes cards seem to have variations on the reveal mechanic: When this cyclops is revealed, reveal another cyclops, count how many cyclops are revealed, etc... This is good for testing. Eventually you may want to make them work more consistently, especially at common.
It can be iffy to have both +1/+1 counters and sprout counters in the same set since players can get confused about what the counters on a creature represent (although in this set there is generally a creature type delineation). I had an idea for elemental tribal a while back that might apply well to plants. Put most off the tribal support for plants on lands, then give some of the plants effects that dig for lands.
Planning to test? You almost have enough to throw together some rough limited decks.
I was worried some of these cards might be a bit strong for common, but I'll worry about it later.
I like the plants and lands idea, but would that mean I'd have to design a bunch of black green lands to give them decent support? I don't want one tribe to have more lands than another.
Yeah, I'd really like to playtest what I have (I don't have any decklists made yet though.). Unfortunately, I don't have much of a way to do so out side of using index cards as proxies.
http://magicseteditor.boards.net/page/downloads
It makes testing a lot easier. Use generic core set cards to fill holes in your mana curve and just throw some decks together to see how things play.
Cyclopses have one eye, Homunculi have one eye, and then Eyes are, well, an Eye. You could make a historic-like batch word that cares about all three creature types or just some cards that specifically care about them.