So here we are, getting into the design phase of our custom set. For those who weren't here for the first few parts of this project, the set is taking place on Pyrulea (if you don't know - http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Pyrulea). There is going to be some sort of a land-matters theme *ahem* NOT landfall *ahem* and a focus on exploration. Feel free to come and go as you like, the project is open to everyone!
But before we can get into designing the actual cards, we need to do a bit of fleshing out. We need a coherent storyline, even if it's just a basic one, we need an idea of how our set is going to feel and most importantly, we need to establish what Pyrulea is like. All we know about the plane is the little bits of information we've been given here and there. Who/what lives there? What do they do? What is life like?
For an overview on what we've decided so far, you can have a look at the previous thread here.
The plot should probably focus on the legends, rather than the Gatewalkers, given the legend theme; each faction would have three legends, two at rare and one at mythic. As for worldbuilding, we could reverse my layer theory from the prior thread to create enemy-color factions, constantly trying to control or convert one another. TEXT WALL WARNING.
• The Xibal (GU), located in the roots have little mana, and rely on methodically tapping the trees for mana-rich sap. They originated as a hive-mind society of insects, but through empathic magic, others have joined the collective mind; their ranks now include human outcasts, shapeshifters, hummingbird-like aven and spirits. Legends: Tlaxi, Spirit of the Swarm(UG), a mystical embodiment of their shared consciousness; Zuvpol, the Manipulator(U), an aven who has learned to weaponized the hive-mind to brainwash his enemies and Chaal, Pariah Druid (G) a mystic who seeks to commune with the trees through their roots. Themes: Counter manipulation and lands.
• The Huavsa (GB), fierce predators that patrol the understory, camouflaging in the shifting patches of sunlight. Mana is still scarce, and the animals eat not just the meat, but the energy of their prey. They include beasts, cats, elves, snakes, lizards, demons and carnivorous plants. Legends: Chel Pax, Cunning Predator(BG), a jaguar-like creature that has attained sapience by eating the souls of his enemies; Locaha(B), the demonic embodiment of predation and Manoab the Devourer(G), a massive hydra. Themes: Dealing damage, fight, and ramp.
• The Ashna (RW), warriors who rebelled against the Oltac empire and dissolved into roving warbands. They wage a guerilla war against the Oltac and rival factions within themselves. They regard combat as a vital part of life, making it a central element of their religion and imbuing it with countless rituals. When there is no nearby enemy, they engage in gladiatorial combat and brutal bloodsport. They include humans, aquiline aven and dragons. Legends: Warlord Kal’ec(RW), a descendant of the leader of the original rebellion and ruler of the largest warband; Hakchash the Champion(R), a gladiator with the charisma of a born performer and the bloodthirst of a born brawler and Iksan(W), a priest who leads one of the other warbands and bestows powerful blessings on his favorite soldiers. Themes: Combat matters, aggro and combat tricks.
• The Oltac (BW), a decadent empire stretching across the canopy via an intricate network of rope ladders and bridges. Their palaces and cities are centered in the emergent layer, which is seen as sacred due to its proximity to the sun. They believe the sun demands daily sacrifice in order to feed its mana-production and constantly conquer and assimilate other peoples to acquire slaves and victims. The primary antagonist. They include humans, shades, gods and spirits. Legends: Solcoatl, the Eternal(WB), the god of the sun; Emperor Balakeb(W), a megalomaniacal demigod and Itzal(B), a scheming vizier and spymaster. Themes: Swarm and sacrifice
• The Yaktos(UR), chaotic sky spirits and beings of pure mana. They form around overconcentrations of magic and toy with the warring mortals. They include illusions, elementals, spirits and weirds. Legends: Vozchi, Everchanging(UR), a spirit that transfigures both magic and reality; Tezloh(U), a mage who has learned to channel the spirits through his magic and Tonauch, the Mad(R), an fire elemental that sporadically devastates swathes of the canopy. Themes: Instants and sorceries
New Mechanic: Territorial(When [This] enters the battlefield, you may put a territory counter on target land. Lands with territory counters on them are territories in addition to their other types)
Example: Spellsap Druid 2G
Creature-Human Druid C
Territorial
Territories you control have “t: add one mana of any color to your mana pool”
1/3
Returning Mechanic: Grandeur-Discard a card with the same name as [This]: [Effect]
Tlaxi, Spirit of the Swarm 2UG
Legendary creature-Insect Spirit
Tlaxi’s power and toughness are equal to the number of cards in your hand. 1U, Return a creature you control to its owner’s hand: Tlaxi gains flying until end of turn. 1G, Return a land you control to its owner’s hand: Tlaxi gains trample until end of turn.
Grandeur-Discard a card with the same name as Tlaxi, Spirit of the Swarm: Return all other creatures to their owner’s hands.
*/*
Egomania 2B
Sorcery
Search your library for any number of cards that share a name with a legendary creature you control. Reveal them and put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
EDIT: Added my flavour/mechanic ideas
So what is the design goal here? That seems like an important thing to establish. What I mean is, what are the priorities?
An important thing I see here I keeping an eye on how similar this is to Zendikar. A question I think we should answer sooner rather than later: what are fundamental things that makes this world different to Zendikar? And how will the set feel different to Zendikar?
I would say mechanically focusing on messing with existing lands, rather than playing new ones and thematically, showcasing the dark side of exploration: conquest, colonization and exploitation.
That's a start I think. Just needs to be expanded on and be given more direction. Perhaps something of a "barbarians at the gates" or barbarians vs civilization type of theme in there? More broadly, nature vs. technology could play into things. Gypsies/nomads also work well as a theme for exploration. Maybe some reasonable way to implement DFC lands?
I'm basically just brainstorming. The little bit of description I read from the link on Pyrulea indicates that it's a very plant-heavy, jungle like plane. It's basically a plane that's representative of nature. That does make it fitting as it's a place with lots of natural land to explore (or colonize/conquer) - and maybe the natives of the plane are protective about that? There does need to be at least a little bit of a plot here, and there has to be something interesting to do mechanically with the land theme.
Each faction has a 'barbaric' counterpart, the Hauvsa to the Xibal and the Ashna to the Oltac. The Yaktos are the ultimate force of chaos, countered by the mages trying to channel them. The set could be about the fall of civilization to the wilderness after overexpansion. The relevance of the land theme is that mana is the oil of this world, the vital resource all factions seek. Territorial(very much a placeholder name) can reflect both the plane's denizens trying to make the most of their mana and the ideas of conquest and expansion.
While some bits of it are kind of rough, and will definitely need to be tweaked and adjusted and such, I think poison counter is really onto something good here. I have a few ideas floating around in my head at the moment, I'll post a bit later today when I've gotten them a little more sorted out.
One thing I feel is important is that in a limited environment, all ten two-colour combinations should feel viable. While there can be an emphasis on the five major factions, there still needs to be some support for the allied colour pairs as well.
Here is a rough storyline I've come up with for the first set (assuming a two-set block) based on poison counter's ideas. Not sure yet how we are going to incorporate the whole "exploration" theme.
Anyways, here goes:
There are severe tensions between the three major factions - Oltac, Ashna, and Xibal. An accident ignites the situation and small skirmishes begin to break out between the Xibal and Oltac.
A solar flare, amplified by the presence of dozens of Yaktos elementals, extends towards the Oltac capital. The flare is orchestrated in conjunction between the Oltac Vizier Itzal (secretly a devoted worshiper of Locaha) and a powerful Yaktos sorceress seeking revenge against the Oltac warriors who enslaved her family. Emperor Balakeb tries to channel the energy of thousands of sacrifices combined with the flare in an attempt to destroy the Xibal, but the burst of mana is too much for the royal mages, and everyone present is destroyed. Itzal lures Locaha out of the depths, who feeds on the souls of the victims and grows large enough to block out the sun. A massive Huavsa swarm emerges from the canopy and, moving with her vast shadow, proceeds to devour everything in sight.
Itzal takes control of the Oltac and allies himself with the elves of the Huavsa. He convinces the empire into thinking Locaha's appearance is a result of the anger of Solcoatl and takes about preaching the "holy cleansing" of the world - to annihilate the opposing factions.
The Xibal attempt to defend themselves within their root-fortresses. The Ashna, due to both their love of warfare and their borderline-obsessive grudge against the Oltac, heedlessly throw themselves into battle, and the Oltac declare outright war against their enemy.
The blue-aligned Yaktos mages hold counsel in their sky palaces to plan how they can prevent the entirety of the plane from falling into ruin. Meanwhile, the red mages don't care and are using the chaos as an excuse to wreak more chaos.
Sorry, I have been busy with RL the past two days, your story ideas sound great. On limited, we can have small ally subthemes, akin to the enemy subthemes in SOI.
Story and factions so far sound good, but I'm not so much a fan of Territorial as it is right now.
Counters getting put on hard to deal permanents by other cards doesn't feel good. A mechanic like level up for lands would be more sensible, since you have to invest mana into it to get a reward later. Also, it could fit thematically in the exploitation of mana for profit theme.
I would find it interesting on lands, similar to the level up mechanic someone already had in a set where lands became cities, although we would need it with a different focus.
Sacrificing lands for a huge burst/ability would also be a way of exploitation, like Abandoned Outpost, Ancient Spring or Archaeological Dig. I personally find it better if cards have their own mechanic as well as an interaction with each other. Like giving such Sacrifice Lands an additional type like Lair/Territory as well as give creatures a way to interact with Lairs/Territories.
That would force you to be wary of when you sacrifice the land, since you might weaken your creatures.
The land type could be Dominion, as that hasn't been used in a keyword before and isn't associated with any "type" of land. I think a main issue will be making the land theme matter at common without increasing the complexity of the set too much. I'm not against having a common cycle of utility lands, but we have to avoid the potential pitfalls of introducing such a mechanic.
The problem is there is less 'space' for a mechanic in lands as even a land-themed set has far fewer nonbasic lands than it does creatures or spells. Limited also makes this more difficult as lands are not considered to take up deck slots during drafting. We can have a land mechanic as you suggest, but it will be difficult to have as our central mechanic unless we do something like Dragons Maze.
I don't think Land matters should be the central mechanical theme. I'm absolutely fine with, and support, it being a major thing, but I think making it the main focus will make the set too close to Zendikar even if we if take in a different direction given that's more what we would expect from another Zendikar block. Comparable to how clues and Investigate were a big thing in SOI, but not the main thing.
As for what I think the main thing should be, library matters is the area I would look at first. It fits with the exploration theme and world and plays well with the land theme.
Library matters seems like a good idea, but most applications of it thus far have been extremely fiddly and counting-heavy, like everything wrong with threshold amplified for little benefit. I would love to see exploration for that theme that was not so clunky, if you have any ideas.
What about a mechanic that reveals the top n cards of your library, and then you get an effect based on what's there? Something a bit like Riddle of Lightning, or Judge Unworthy.
A set a few people and I are working on has a mechanic that cares for the number of basic lands you control: If you control seven basic lands/As long as you control seven basic lands
Basically Threshold for basic lands.
Library matters is a cool theme too, but the problem can be that not all colours do something with the library except for scry.
That is an interesting idea, a bit chaotic for a central mechanic but it could work for the Yaktos. @ Gusto, Scute Mob mechanic is definitely a space worth exploring, but would rule out a land-sac theme. We should probably start deciding which direction to go in.
Why does it rule out land sacrificing? It may led to feel bad moments cause you have to choose between the two, but it kinda symbolizes the importance of resource management.
Having two mechanics in direct opposition within the same block is bad design. It muddies the set's theme, makes it uncomfortable for many players and makes drafting more awkward.
I agree, however, I think there is room for a few utility lands that sacrifice themselves (like Horizon Canopy) if the land matters mechanic is based on the number of basics you have in play, as they won't count towards that anyways. They should not both be major themes though, as that would be too complicated.
Uncover N (Put the bottom N cards of your library into your graveyard, then you may put a card from your graveyard on top of your library)
Uncover N (alt) (Look at the bottom N cards of your library, then put any number of them on top of your library and the rest into your graveyard)
Accord- Reveal the top card of your library. If it shares a card type with this, (effect).
Revelation- If you have fifteen or more cards in your library less than your starting library total, (effect)
(would come with a reminder token you can put underneath the top fifteen to make it easier to track)
Ascend [cost] (You may pay [cost] and put this creature on top of your library.)
When (this creature) ascends, (effect)
Having two mechanics in direct opposition within the same block is bad design. It muddies the set's theme, makes it uncomfortable for many players and makes drafting more awkward.
True that. I'm more for the land sacrificing myself, since it fits to the only land of Pyrulea so far, Horizon Canopy. A reprint/new combination of the Sacrifice-for-Power lands would be fitting, since every colour can use more mana. Designing a land like Horizon Canopy probably ends up like roided up Blighted Lands for every colour combination.
I agree, however, I think there is room for a few utility lands that sacrifice themselves (like Horizon Canopy) if the land matters mechanic is based on the number of basics you have in play, as they won't count towards that anyways. They should not both be major themes though, as that would be too complicated.
Yes, but there lies the problem as poison counter said, it opposes each other since you (most of the time) have to either play a utility land or a basic land, so you are hurting yourself a bit with both mechanics in a deck.
Uncover N (Put the bottom N cards of your library into your graveyard, then you may put a card from your graveyard on top of your library)
Interesting, but could a mechanic like this be in all colours?
Uncover N (alt) (Look at the bottom N cards of your library, then put any number of them on top of your library and the rest into your graveyard)
Bottom scry +mill? Sounds fun, although a graveyard filler mechanic probably needs a graveyard theme too to not make it too much "feel bad". Land recursion could be a thing in the set.
Accord- Reveal the top card of your library. If it shares a card type with this, (effect).
That's kinship for all cards, could be nice if there is lots of scry in the set.
Revelation- If you have fifteen or more cards in your library less than your starting library total, (effect)
(would come with a reminder token you can put underneath the top fifteen to make it easier to track)
Rather not for me, of all the things to count, cards in your library are the worst since there is so much potential to cheat, especially if it's a low number.
Ascend [cost] (You may pay [cost] and put this creature on top of your library.)
When (this creature) ascends, (effect)
Ui, that sounds like fun, should probably be sorcery speed to not be too easy to dodge every removal, but could have strong effects since you slow yourself down.
On another note, what is the "feeling" people should have when playing the set? Apart from Innistrad I never really got too much what the feel of a set should have been in Limited, but there should still be one direction for the set to go.
Personally I like the exploit flavour of the Land theme through sacrifice lands, since it could lead to interesting plays and can be used on any rarity. Also, it fits to Horizon Canopy.
What about Horizon Boughs though? That also gives us a direction for the whole plane, untap all permanents and ramp. Should we include this?
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But before we can get into designing the actual cards, we need to do a bit of fleshing out. We need a coherent storyline, even if it's just a basic one, we need an idea of how our set is going to feel and most importantly, we need to establish what Pyrulea is like. All we know about the plane is the little bits of information we've been given here and there. Who/what lives there? What do they do? What is life like?
For an overview on what we've decided so far, you can have a look at the previous thread here.
• The Xibal (GU), located in the roots have little mana, and rely on methodically tapping the trees for mana-rich sap. They originated as a hive-mind society of insects, but through empathic magic, others have joined the collective mind; their ranks now include human outcasts, shapeshifters, hummingbird-like aven and spirits. Legends: Tlaxi, Spirit of the Swarm(UG), a mystical embodiment of their shared consciousness; Zuvpol, the Manipulator(U), an aven who has learned to weaponized the hive-mind to brainwash his enemies and Chaal, Pariah Druid (G) a mystic who seeks to commune with the trees through their roots. Themes: Counter manipulation and lands.
• The Huavsa (GB), fierce predators that patrol the understory, camouflaging in the shifting patches of sunlight. Mana is still scarce, and the animals eat not just the meat, but the energy of their prey. They include beasts, cats, elves, snakes, lizards, demons and carnivorous plants. Legends: Chel Pax, Cunning Predator(BG), a jaguar-like creature that has attained sapience by eating the souls of his enemies; Locaha(B), the demonic embodiment of predation and Manoab the Devourer(G), a massive hydra. Themes: Dealing damage, fight, and ramp.
• The Ashna (RW), warriors who rebelled against the Oltac empire and dissolved into roving warbands. They wage a guerilla war against the Oltac and rival factions within themselves. They regard combat as a vital part of life, making it a central element of their religion and imbuing it with countless rituals. When there is no nearby enemy, they engage in gladiatorial combat and brutal bloodsport. They include humans, aquiline aven and dragons. Legends: Warlord Kal’ec(RW), a descendant of the leader of the original rebellion and ruler of the largest warband; Hakchash the Champion(R), a gladiator with the charisma of a born performer and the bloodthirst of a born brawler and Iksan(W), a priest who leads one of the other warbands and bestows powerful blessings on his favorite soldiers. Themes: Combat matters, aggro and combat tricks.
• The Oltac (BW), a decadent empire stretching across the canopy via an intricate network of rope ladders and bridges. Their palaces and cities are centered in the emergent layer, which is seen as sacred due to its proximity to the sun. They believe the sun demands daily sacrifice in order to feed its mana-production and constantly conquer and assimilate other peoples to acquire slaves and victims. The primary antagonist. They include humans, shades, gods and spirits. Legends: Solcoatl, the Eternal(WB), the god of the sun; Emperor Balakeb(W), a megalomaniacal demigod and Itzal(B), a scheming vizier and spymaster. Themes: Swarm and sacrifice
• The Yaktos(UR), chaotic sky spirits and beings of pure mana. They form around overconcentrations of magic and toy with the warring mortals. They include illusions, elementals, spirits and weirds. Legends: Vozchi, Everchanging(UR), a spirit that transfigures both magic and reality; Tezloh(U), a mage who has learned to channel the spirits through his magic and Tonauch, the Mad(R), an fire elemental that sporadically devastates swathes of the canopy. Themes: Instants and sorceries
New Mechanic: Territorial(When [This] enters the battlefield, you may put a territory counter on target land. Lands with territory counters on them are territories in addition to their other types)
Example: Spellsap Druid 2G
Creature-Human Druid C
Territorial
Territories you control have “t: add one mana of any color to your mana pool”
1/3
Returning Mechanic: Grandeur-Discard a card with the same name as [This]: [Effect]
Tlaxi, Spirit of the Swarm 2UG
Legendary creature-Insect Spirit
Tlaxi’s power and toughness are equal to the number of cards in your hand.
1U, Return a creature you control to its owner’s hand: Tlaxi gains flying until end of turn.
1G, Return a land you control to its owner’s hand: Tlaxi gains trample until end of turn.
Grandeur-Discard a card with the same name as Tlaxi, Spirit of the Swarm: Return all other creatures to their owner’s hands.
*/*
Egomania 2B
Sorcery
Search your library for any number of cards that share a name with a legendary creature you control. Reveal them and put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
EDIT: Added my flavour/mechanic ideas
An important thing I see here I keeping an eye on how similar this is to Zendikar. A question I think we should answer sooner rather than later: what are fundamental things that makes this world different to Zendikar? And how will the set feel different to Zendikar?
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I'm basically just brainstorming. The little bit of description I read from the link on Pyrulea indicates that it's a very plant-heavy, jungle like plane. It's basically a plane that's representative of nature. That does make it fitting as it's a place with lots of natural land to explore (or colonize/conquer) - and maybe the natives of the plane are protective about that? There does need to be at least a little bit of a plot here, and there has to be something interesting to do mechanically with the land theme.
Here is a rough storyline I've come up with for the first set (assuming a two-set block) based on poison counter's ideas. Not sure yet how we are going to incorporate the whole "exploration" theme.
Anyways, here goes:
There are severe tensions between the three major factions - Oltac, Ashna, and Xibal. An accident ignites the situation and small skirmishes begin to break out between the Xibal and Oltac.
A solar flare, amplified by the presence of dozens of Yaktos elementals, extends towards the Oltac capital. The flare is orchestrated in conjunction between the Oltac Vizier Itzal (secretly a devoted worshiper of Locaha) and a powerful Yaktos sorceress seeking revenge against the Oltac warriors who enslaved her family. Emperor Balakeb tries to channel the energy of thousands of sacrifices combined with the flare in an attempt to destroy the Xibal, but the burst of mana is too much for the royal mages, and everyone present is destroyed. Itzal lures Locaha out of the depths, who feeds on the souls of the victims and grows large enough to block out the sun. A massive Huavsa swarm emerges from the canopy and, moving with her vast shadow, proceeds to devour everything in sight.
Itzal takes control of the Oltac and allies himself with the elves of the Huavsa. He convinces the empire into thinking Locaha's appearance is a result of the anger of Solcoatl and takes about preaching the "holy cleansing" of the world - to annihilate the opposing factions.
The Xibal attempt to defend themselves within their root-fortresses. The Ashna, due to both their love of warfare and their borderline-obsessive grudge against the Oltac, heedlessly throw themselves into battle, and the Oltac declare outright war against their enemy.
The blue-aligned Yaktos mages hold counsel in their sky palaces to plan how they can prevent the entirety of the plane from falling into ruin. Meanwhile, the red mages don't care and are using the chaos as an excuse to wreak more chaos.
Counters getting put on hard to deal permanents by other cards doesn't feel good. A mechanic like level up for lands would be more sensible, since you have to invest mana into it to get a reward later. Also, it could fit thematically in the exploitation of mana for profit theme.
Sacrificing lands for a huge burst/ability would also be a way of exploitation, like Abandoned Outpost, Ancient Spring or Archaeological Dig. I personally find it better if cards have their own mechanic as well as an interaction with each other. Like giving such Sacrifice Lands an additional type like Lair/Territory as well as give creatures a way to interact with Lairs/Territories.
That would force you to be wary of when you sacrifice the land, since you might weaken your creatures.
As for what I think the main thing should be, library matters is the area I would look at first. It fits with the exploration theme and world and plays well with the land theme.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Basically Threshold for basic lands.
Library matters is a cool theme too, but the problem can be that not all colours do something with the library except for scry.
Uncover N (Put the bottom N cards of your library into your graveyard, then you may put a card from your graveyard on top of your library)
Uncover N (alt) (Look at the bottom N cards of your library, then put any number of them on top of your library and the rest into your graveyard)
Accord- Reveal the top card of your library. If it shares a card type with this, (effect).
Revelation- If you have fifteen or more cards in your library less than your starting library total, (effect)
(would come with a reminder token you can put underneath the top fifteen to make it easier to track)
Ascend [cost] (You may pay [cost] and put this creature on top of your library.)
When (this creature) ascends, (effect)
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
True that. I'm more for the land sacrificing myself, since it fits to the only land of Pyrulea so far, Horizon Canopy. A reprint/new combination of the Sacrifice-for-Power lands would be fitting, since every colour can use more mana. Designing a land like Horizon Canopy probably ends up like roided up Blighted Lands for every colour combination.
Yes, but there lies the problem as poison counter said, it opposes each other since you (most of the time) have to either play a utility land or a basic land, so you are hurting yourself a bit with both mechanics in a deck.
Interesting, but could a mechanic like this be in all colours?
Bottom scry +mill? Sounds fun, although a graveyard filler mechanic probably needs a graveyard theme too to not make it too much "feel bad". Land recursion could be a thing in the set.
That's kinship for all cards, could be nice if there is lots of scry in the set.
Rather not for me, of all the things to count, cards in your library are the worst since there is so much potential to cheat, especially if it's a low number.
Ui, that sounds like fun, should probably be sorcery speed to not be too easy to dodge every removal, but could have strong effects since you slow yourself down.
On another note, what is the "feeling" people should have when playing the set? Apart from Innistrad I never really got too much what the feel of a set should have been in Limited, but there should still be one direction for the set to go.
Personally I like the exploit flavour of the Land theme through sacrifice lands, since it could lead to interesting plays and can be used on any rarity. Also, it fits to Horizon Canopy.
What about Horizon Boughs though? That also gives us a direction for the whole plane, untap all permanents and ramp. Should we include this?