Vedalken seem like a good fit for bureaucrats in the brotherhood. Could rat-folk be the black race? Like the nezumi from kamigawa? They could be one of the lowest castes. Or maybe double agents for the brotherhood?
As for iconics. Archons as agents of the brotherhood seems to fit. With maybe one or two angels on the rebel side?
Having Dahl be a different member of the Infinite Consortium than Tezzeret looks like the perfect solution to me! Maybe they even know each other? Maybe Dahl invited him to Ormos (in disguise obviously) to help with his technology? I'm just thinking aloud too. Anyway, let's not forget Tezzeret is now an agent of Bolas, and I'm also not sure if the Consortium still exists. We'll need to check that.
I wonder where have I heard the five nation idea before... No problem, if we do that here I already have an idea to adjust my future set. I agree with Indighost that Vedalken looks like a good fit for the blue one. I could see some particular kind of Vampires on Ormos though, maybe they have some peculiarity that sets them apart from the ones from other planes. The first thing that comes into my mind is something like maybe their fangs are made of metal? Or maybe they inject chips into their victims through them? Or maybe they feed on the vital essence of their victims instead of their blood (maybe there's not enough of a difference though)? Or their minds (even though that feels similar to Zombies feeding on brains)? Again, just thinking aloud. If Vampires don't work out, I can see us making up a new race specifically (as we did with the Sandbugs in Extinctia), and that could be the humanoid rat race Indighost is talking about. It's too bad Kamigawa names are too Japanese sounding, otherwise reusing the Nezumi could have been good here.
I also see no big problems having Angels and Demons in Ormos. Anyway, to address the concern that was expressed before about a Magic world not having Elves, Angels, Demons, etc... I have the world for you: Tarkir! Of those, Tarkir only has Demons, and most are Rakshasas, there are few traditional ones (actually I remember just one: Butcher of the Horde, but there may be a few more). Look at the characteristic races: Tarkir has Humans and Goblins, but no Merfolk, Elves, Vampires, or Leonin (if you want to consider them for white, with Humans being in all colors)! And look at iconic races too: I've already mentioned Demons, while there are no Angels, Sphinxes, or Hydras in Tarkir. Dragons obviously are a different matter. So Tarkir has only 1/5 (or 2/5 if you're counting humans for white) of the usual characteristic races, and 2/5 of the iconic ones. That's not a lot! So that shouldn't be a problem in Ormos too.
I like the idea of the device used by Dahl to isolate Ormos from other planes. It immediately reminded me of the hedron network Sorin, Ugin, and Nahiri made to trap the Eldrazi on Zendikar. Maybe that device works similarly, exploiting leylines or something like that? I also like that breaking it is what makes 137's spark ignite. I think then 137 should really be the one who actually breaks it.
The color split just has to be Esper (Brotherhood) vs Naya (Rebels). I see no other real possibility that makes sense.
I agree about everything else that has been said in these lasts posts.
I'll come to making a blog post after I'm done writing a new Lion's Lair issue I've started yesterday, and Flatline should know its inspiration! Just think back of the DCC from a few days ago...
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
it feels more appropriate if Dahl is in fact manipulated by Bolas through Tezzeret
Ooh, I really think we're onto something here! Could this actually work?
I just forgot about that Hydra, I was going by memory. Ok, make it 3/5 iconic races on Tarkir, it doesn't change the point. It's still half the races total between characteristic and iconic ones.
I can see the point about green's philosophy and the Brotherhood. I mentioned something similar too in the first page. What about making both the Brotherhood and the Rebels all five colors, but centered in different ones? We need some difference to give identity to the factions, we just can't have them both all five colors and stop.
who could selectively shut down the abilities of SOME super-humans in his vicinity
This is another very good suggestion who could be a solution to one of our problems. I've never seen that tv series you mention, but I think something like this might work. Others?
The story starts with the Brotherhood already in power since a few decades. At least, that's what me and Flatline were thinking. And you may be right here too: do we really need to explain how the Brotherhood came into power? I'm not that sure anymore...
EDIT: I just finished, proofread, and published my new article (link in signature if you're interested). Honestly, I'm glad I've done it but it left me exhausted, so my blog post about Ormos won't come before tomorrow. Telling you this so that you don't have false expectations.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Man, this a lot to take in! I guess that comes with the territory of set building via computer with multiple people. I'm going to try my best to respond to these ideas.
I actually really like the idea of Rat-folk being the black race on Ormos. I agree with Lion that they would have to be called something other than Nezumi though. I'm not too sure about Vampires on the plane. Beings that can live as long as Vampires would make it very difficult for The Brotherhood to revise history, because there would be beings still around that were actually alive to remember what happened. I suppose Angels and Archons might work, but they might have the same issue I just brought up for Vampires.
I like the idea of Dahl being connected to Tezzeret in some way. Perhaps we could make it so that the planeswalker that accompanies 137 back to Ormos has had run-ins with Dahl in the past. When he arrives on Ormos, he exposes Dahl for who he really is, which helps the rebellion gain even more momentum (BTW, the rebellion wins in the end in my mind, I'm not sure we've actually said that).
Sorry Lion, I wasn't even thinking about your 5 nations idea when I suggested that. You know I always try to give credit where it is due. I was just brainstorming at the time and came up with 5 because that's how many colors there are in MTG. I’m not really sure the 5 nations idea is the way to go here anyway.
I have no real problem leaving out some traditional MTG races as long as others don't. If others do, I'm sure we could figure some way to include them. Again, any race that lives a lot longer than Humans would put a kink in the revisionist history idea, which I think is an important part of any dystopian future based idea.
I'm coming down on the isolated plane side. I really like the idea that no one can get in or out of Ormos. I think the isolated plane idea might be necessary for Dahl to have controlled the plane for so long. Please hear me out on this....What if in the first set the rebellion is headed by a planeswalker that has been stuck on Ormos due to Dahl's device. This planeswalker has managed to get some citizens of Ormos to believe him when he tells them the true story of Dahl (although he doesn't know Dahl's true identity, he does know Dahl is a planeswalker and isn't who he says he is), this is what helps start the rebellion. At the end of the first set, the rebel planeswalker manages to destroy Dahl's device, but is killed in the process. 137 is somehow involved in this exchange, and her spark ignites at that moment. I'm wondering if perhaps 137 could end up being this rebel planeswalker's daughter? But that might be crazy, at the very least, 137's backstory would have to be altered some if we think this is a good idea. BTW, if this is an idea people like, the rebel planeswalker would need to be race that lives a long time, so that it makes sense that he's been around since Dahl took power.
I'm still up in the air on the color split. Lion's split makes some sense to me, but before he suggested it, I pictured both factions using all five colors, but centered on different colors (W- Brotherhood, R- Rebels). Just because the theme of the block is white gone wrong, doesn't mean I want the other colors to be weak in the set. I guess what I’m saying is, white really has no bigger role on Ormos per se, but the fact that it is the antagonist in the block is rare enough to make it the focus of the block. Does that make sense? Tilwin’s point in his last post about needing to use color to differentiate between factions is put rather well.
I think Dahl definitely needs to have blue in his colors due the fact that he is an artificer, and he HAS to be white also. I think he also needs black because, although outwardly he is white, his motivations are black. Regardless of the circumstances, Dahl originally came to power by preaching unity and brotherly love. I've always pictured his slogan being "I am my brother's keeper", a religious saying that is meant in a positive way, but can easily be taken too far. I have at no time ever thought of Dahl as red. I picture him being very cold and calculated.
I consider this to be my most important statement in this post…I never intended technology to be the main focus of Ormos. I intended for oppressive law and order to serve as the focus (white gone wrong). The Brotherhood’s main way of controlling its citizens is through religious propaganda, and manipulation of history through re-education (basically brainwashing). The artifacts are just meant to be a part of The Brotherhood. They are there to help make sure people are obeying the law. I never meant for them to be too pervasive in the block. Somebody brought up the idea of having different bureaus within The Brotherhood. I like that idea. The artifacts would just be associated with one of those bureaus. The Party (the government) in 1984 was broken down into these 4 ministries (from Wikipedia):
• the Ministry of Peace deals with war and defence.
• the Ministry of Plenty deals with economic affairs (rationing and starvation).
• the Ministry of Love deals with law and order (torture and brainwashing).
• the Ministry of Truth deals with news, entertainment, education and art (propaganda).
This seems like a decent model to follow. I’m on vacation all next week. I intend to re-read both 1984, and Brave New World during that time. They are full of great ideas that we could mold into our own.
I’m very much looking forward to Lion’s blog post. His organizational skills far surpass mine.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Rat-folk being the black race on Ormos...
By now it looks almost a given that each new custom block has its own new race! Extinctia has Sandbugs, we have this, and I already have another one in mind for my future set! Now, seriously, I'm all for doing this. I don't have any idea for their name at the moment though.
Also, you have a good point about the different life spans of different races. I hadn't thought of that. And yes, that implies Vampires, Angels, Demons and such may be hard to do, you were right.
Dahl being connected to Tezzeret...
I can totally see this. I can even see Tezzeret coming to Ormos because Bolas sent him there for whatever reason we don't even need to know about (who knows Bolas's plans?), what matters is that he leaves and goes back to Bolas by the end of the block. If we just want the two (Dahl and Tezzeret) to be connected it might be enough to say that they both were member of the Infinite Consortium when it still existed, as already suggested.
5 nations idea
Yes, I know that, that's why that emoticon was there! Anyway, that gave me inspiration to come up for a different split for my world I might like even more, so we're definitely free to do it here if we want.
I have no real problem leaving out some traditional MTG races as long as others don't...
Neither do I. My Tarkir example was meant exactly to show that things like that have already been done in real Magic, so we can do that too.
isolated plane...
Yes, I like this story you propose. So, are we settling down with 137 being female? I have no problem with that, just wondering. The only thing that sounds strange to me is having two planeswalkers being father and daughter. Planeswalkers are supposed to be very rare in a whole plane, let alone in the same family. Still, the random nature of the spark makes that technically possible even if very very very unlikely. And from a narrative point of view, it could be quite interesting and original.
I'm still up in the air on the color split...
Actually me too since Tilwin posted. His post made me also reevaluate that, and I think he may be right that the best way to do it is, as you say yourself: both factions using all five colors, but centered on different colors (W- Brotherhood, R- Rebels)
Dahl being Esper colored is a must to me, given how you've been describing him since the beginning.
I never intended technology to be the main focus of Ormos. I intended for oppressive law and order to serve as the focus (white gone wrong).
It's good that you specified that, I think we all overestimated how technology is important to the Brotherhood. This part will certainly go straight to my blog post (coming very soon, possibly tonight).
Ministries
I like this idea very much, but I think in our case they should be five: one per color. And that would also confirm that the Brotherhood needs to be in all five colors, and then so do the Rebels too. They would of course need to be centered differently: white is obvious for the Brotherhood, and red feels like a good choice for the Rebels.
Our ministries absolutely need to be organized differently though, because of the following. I've added the main Magic colors of the different concepts in parenthesis. Notice they do NOT line up: • the Ministry of Peace (W) deals with war (R) and defence (W/U).
• the Ministry of Plenty (G) deals with economic affairs (rationing and starvation) (B).
• the Ministry of Love (R) deals with law and order (W) (torture (R/B) and brainwashing(W/B? I think.)).
• the Ministry of Truth (U) deals with news (U, it's information after all), entertainment (probably R), education (U) and art (probably R) (propaganda (W)).
I like the names very much though. Might we want to keep those rearranging their competence on the lines of Magic color pie?
EDIT: In the meantime, here is the page for my blog post. Very little info is in for now, but you'll see it grow during the evening/night.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I feel good about everything you're saying here bravelion. I think we're pretty much on the same page thus far.
I think we just need to get Tilwin's buy in on the Rat-folk idea, then we can put that in the books.
I definitely like the connection to Tezzeret idea. I still think having Dahl turn out to be Tezzeret would be doable. We would just have to make sure that Ormos is a side story for him, and then be careful not to put anything into the block that would then conflict with a potential real storyline. I'm fine with whatever the team decides on this though. I'm fine either way (or even we want no connection whatsoever).
Tilwin and Indighost, are you guys ok with leaving out many of the iconic, traditional MTG races if need be?
I'm very much into the isolated plane idea. I also am 99% sure I want 137-F to be a female at this point. I think it adds another interesting element to the block without any negative repercussions that I can think of. The father and daughter idea was a spur of the moment idea. I was just throwing that out there to see if it excited anybody. Out of curiosity, is there any instance of planeswalker having a child? I can't think of one, but I might be forgetting something. Anyway, if there is no history of this, who's to say that the child of a planeswalker couldn't potentially inherit the spark? Lets take blue eyes for example, if someone in your bloodline has blue eyes, it makes it more likely that you will have blue eyes, but there is still a good chance you won't. Conversely, just because blue eyes doesn't run in your family doesn't mean there is zero chance you'll have blue eyes. Perhaps the spark could work the same way. This may be utter hogwash though.
I think I'm with Tilwin on the color split point. It sounds like you're coming around to it too Lion. What are your thoughts Indighost?
I brought up the technology point because Tilwin seemed to glom onto it. I'm actually fine with it if the rest of the group wants to go that way, I just wanted to make it known that it wasn't my original intention.
The ministries thing was straight from 1984, I intended for us to just use it as inspiration. If we want to set something like that up, I definitely agree that there would need to be five ministries.
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(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I think we just need to get Tilwin's buy in on the Rat-folk idea, then we can put that in the books.
Having the majority could be enough, but I can see you preferring a unanimous decision. That's certainly better.
I still think having Dahl turn out to be Tezzeret would be doable...
It may be, but even if it may I'm not sure we'd want that. Notice that with Tezzeret and your rebel planeswalker that dies while breaking the yet unnamed device we have the three for the first set. I don't see a problem with Tezzeret being UB and Dahl WUB in the same set, while the rebel planeswalker is obviously red (I'd stay away from red/white, as it's what 137 will become in the second set). We just need to stay away from blue and black for all other planeswalkers in the block. Green is not represented at all, may this rebel planeswalker be red/green? In the end, we said the Rebels are centered in Naya colors, so it's still ok as their leader. This can't be a returning planeswalker either, we certainly don't want to take one of the existing planeswalkers and kill him while they can bring it back later.
In short, I'd really like to make Dahl and Tezzeret connected (with the connection being Dahl was a member of the Infinite Consortium when it still existed) but not be the same person, and I'd introduce a red/green planeswalker to be the lead of the rebellion that dies when the device breaks.
Then the planeswalker breakdown would be like this:
First set - Dahl (WUB), Tezzeret (UB), and the RG rebel planeswalker. Tezzeret and Dahl can be differentiated making Tezzeret focused on the artificer side, and Dahl on the rule imposing "I am your god" side.
Second set - No. 137 renamed (WR) and her accompaning planeswalker (who may be anything but blue or black)
There's no need for a double large block with this breakdown. And even if we still want to make a double large block (but I'm not seeing any compelling reason for that), you know what? This breakdown is still fine anyway!
Also, for better balance, might we want the RG rebel planeswalker to be female too? Or having just one female and four males in the block is still good enough?
I also am 99% sure I want 137-F to be a female at this point. I think it adds another interesting element to the block without any negative repercussions that I can think of.
I talk about this (and also about the story in depth) in my blog post too, so everyone please check it out. I agree she wants to be female by now. Let's just make her what she wants to be.
Out of curiosity, is there any instance of planeswalker having a child?
Not that I know of. Maybe something from the early days of Magic, since I practically know nothing storywise before original Mirrodin?
who's to say that the child of a planeswalker couldn't potentially inherit the spark?
Because the spark isn't connected to genes. It's not something you can inherit. But it is random, so it could potentially manifest in a parent/child couple, it's just very unlikely but not impossible. Let's say there is a 0.(a few zeros)1 % chance of it happening. I'm pretty sure this is how it works.
I think I'm with Tilwin on the color split point. It sounds like you're coming around to it too Lion.
Yes, let's make both of the factions all five colors, just centered on different ones, rather than being only in separate colors.
The ministries thing...
I like it very much, I'll certainly elaborate something along those lines. I particularly like that the names are all apparently positive, while the things they care about are not so much... that's a wonderful example of propaganda.
IMPORTANT! Please read the following!
While writing the blog post, an idea hit me (more than one actually, but this one in particular). I mentioned the similarity between the plane-isolating device and the Hedron network that trapped the Eldrazi on Zendikar. What if the plane-isolating device was actually a plane-wide leyline network with its nodes being magical stones (or gears, or whatever) being placed each one INSIDE one of the main camps in Ormos? Obviously there would be guards guarding them and the prisoners are obviously unaware of the secret within their own camps. Somehow, the rebel planeswalker gets to know this and starts breaking them one by one. The last one remained is the one in Workcamp 78, the camp No. 137 lives in. The rebel planeswalker gets in the camp, kills the guards guarding the entrance door to the secret room where the stone is kept, while No. 137 sees him entering, quickly understanding he must be one of the Rebels, and as she always wanted to join the rebellion, she sees this as an opportunity to actively help them. So she follows the planeswalker throughout the camp, maybe helping him too fighting the guards. She follows him also as he enters the secret room so she's there right in the moment the planeswalker breaks the last stone. As it was the last one, that stone accumulated all the energy that was previously dispersed in the various nodes, so that energy was released in a HUGE explosion as the planeswalker broke it. This burst of energy was so strong that it both killed the rebel planeswalker, leaving the rebellion for now without a leader (position that will be conveniently covered later by No. 137 renamed as she comes back to Ormos, and she may claim it or be given it as she tells the Rebels she actually saw their previous leader die and tells them the story of how he died, which she knows because she was there), and almost killed No. 137 too at the same time, igniting her spark. Now that the leyline network is broken, planeswalkers are free to leave Ormos, so No. 137, whose spark just ignited, can leave without any problem (also notice she stayed within the camp all the time, so no need to rewrite her story), meet her "partner" who names her, and come back with him (if she's female I think we will want her "partner" to be male) to lead the rebellion in the second set. No contradictions, no rewriting needed, planeswalker breakdown perfectly satisfied, and it even gives us a key story moment with a very good visual effect if we had art (the explosion caused by the last stone being broken). It also gives us a RG stone(artifact)-breaking planeswalker, that makes a lot of sense in the color pie. I don't know what we could want more.
Please seriously consider this idea because I think it's very strong and ties it all together in a very nice way.
A breakdown of my proposal on the Brotherhood ministries will follow.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I was already reading it bravelion, and I have to say...It is FANTASTIC! There is no way I was ever getting around to writing something so clear and concise (well as concise as it can be. ). Thank you very much for posting it. It even made me understand a few things more clearly. Such as the fact that it was suggested Tezzeret actually be in the first set. I don't dislike that idea. I've been thinking that the easiest way to get another planeswalker on Ormos in the 1st set would be for him to be aligned with Dahl. I love the idea that the planeswalker would be the one giving Dahl his "orders", and that he would only visit the plane occasionally to relay messages (from Bolas?) to Dahl. A couple of things..
In the blog you say that Dahl's motivations are white, but I was picturing them being black. Dahl is evil, he just knows that in this particular situation, following white based laws and magic is the best way for him to rise to power. [Edit: He didn't intervene on Ormos to save the plane, he intervened because he saw an opportunity to rule it.] He preaches love and brotherhood, but only so that his citizens ("brothers and sisters") remain docile and easy to manipulate. I see the core leaders of the brotherhood as evil, but the average member of the brotherhood actually believing they are doing the right thing. Dahl is VERY charismatic. What he has done is basically build a plane-wide cult to himself.
On indignation/indignant...I think you're correct when you say that your opponent would never target your indignant creature, but I don't think that is a problem with indignation (the version that triggers when any creature you control is targeted). If you have a creature out with indignation (let's say a 1/1 w/Indignation - ....., ~ deals 2 damage to that spell or ability's controller.), plus another creature (let's a say a 3/2 flyer that has been hammering your pre-release opponent for a few turns), your opponent will have to eliminate the 3/2 flyer or die to it. If your opponent can't draw a bigger flyer, they will have to take 2 damage to remove it, and that still leaves the indignation creature on the board. I actually really like the idea, but have no problem with it if no one else does. I just wanted to say my peace on it.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Lion, we are posting at the same time (you were actually editing). I'm convinced that Bolas manipulating Dahl through Tezzeret is the way to go now. Also, I LOVE the story you're proposing!
Edit: I'd love if all decisions were unanimous. In the end, I want us all to consider this "our" set. If we do come to an impasse on something, then we can go with majority rules (if it's a 2-2 tie, we'll ask for an outside opinion, Piar for instance). Also, if nobody pipes up with any objections to an idea for a few days, we should consider that as an endorsement of the idea.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Yes, I just finished to edit a few details here and there in the previous post. It took me an additional hour, but it was definitely well spent. I'll correct the part about Dahl's motivations, but he still is a black character that is using white means. Blue is there because he's an artificer, but if we have Tezzeret, could we even make Dahl's card just WB to help differentiate it from Tezzeret's UB card even more? I think we must involve white somehow with Dahl, also because we're saying his government is us wanting to show what happens when white is taken to the extreme.
I agree on all the rest. We'll probably have to just try indignation in playtest and see how it actually plays.
I'm convinced that Bolas manipulating Dahl through Tezzeret is the way to go now.
I've got no problem with that. Who knows Bolas's plans anyway? We don't need to explain them, we just have to say "Bolas did it, for reasons only he knows".
Thanks, it all started to form in my mind while I was putting pieces together from different posts. I saw that it all made sense together in the end, we just needed the final piece of the puzzle, and I think I just found it.
Now I'll think about ministries, and then I'll add those and the corrections to Dahl's motivation in the blog. Today I'll have spent all day on Ormos, but hey, that's what planeswalkers do! And we are planeswalkers! Also, it was badly needed. We were both going crazy from the sheer quantity of our ideas.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
It's like you're reading my mind at times Lion. I was just going to edit my last post to ask if Dahl still needed to be an artificer himself, or if he should be W/B and Tezzeret be U/B. The only problem I have with this is, I see Dahl as being very intelligent and manipulative, I can see Mind Control being a Dahl associated card. Even without the artificer aspect, he still seems to want some blue to me. Perhaps just dropping the artificer idea for him would be enough to differentiate the two? Maybe Tezzeret could go back to mono-blue for the set? I'm still up in the air about some of this, but I'm thinking we drop the Dahl is an artificer thing if we end up with Tezzeret in the set.
Another fine example of your mind reading abilities is the story you posted about Dahl's device and 137-F's spark igniting. I had the same basic idea in my head, but I hadn't thought it all the way through yet. You did an excellent job of taking the lump of clay in my head and forming it into art.
Edit: We may want to pause again for a moment to give Indighost and Tilwin some time to catch up. It's hard to do that though, the more we discuss Ormos, the more excited I get about it. I feel like we're making some good headway now!
Edit2: I'm not trying to shove indignation into the set by any means, I was just hoping to change your mind on the ability. If you still don't like it, we can just think up something else.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Yes, let me sort the ministries thing and then we can (and probably should) pause again.
No problem about indignation, I'm just saying: let's test it. I want to see how it actually plays.
If Dahl is not an artificer, who made the drones, chips, and most of all the magical stone network that needs to be broken for 137's spark to ignite? Tezzeret made that all? It doesn't convince me, why would he want to do all that work? Maybe Bolas ordered him to do that? I don't know, there's something that doesn't convince me in that. What I meant is that Dahl has still a little blue in him, just as much as needed to have him build all those artifacts, but that little blue part is not represented on his card, which is more about the government aspect that is mostly W/B... Wait! Right while I'm writing this a thought came to me! Nahiri builds artifacts, she is a lithomancer (not an artificer, but close enough) and she is white! Not blue! His chips also will be Equipment for us (Implants), and white does interact a lot with Equipment. Maybe we could just say the white in him is enough to justify him building those things? Then we could actually drop blue completely from him. What do you think? Just this and the ministries, then we really get a pause!
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
As I mentioned in my previous post, I still see blue in him because of his ability to basically gain control of people's minds, even if it is through white means. The Nahiri thing actually makes sense, but I still see him as a mind manipulator, and for lack of a better term "fake white". I agree that if we have Tezzeret in the block, it would be nice to drop blue from Dahl, but I find that changes his personality greatly from what I have always envisioned. Perhaps Dahl is a student of Tezzeret's? As I said before, Tezzeret only visits the plane occasionally to check in and give direction.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Yes, the best thing is probably as I said originally, just make him Esper and not care. Let's use mechanics on their planeswalker cards to separate their identities: let's focus Tezzeret on the artificer side and Dahl on the government side, but keeping the blue in him. It now comes to my mind that if Tezzeret visits every now and then, the magical stone network has to let him pass too. Not a problem: we'll say that Dahl "programmed" it magically to only let himself and Tezzeret pass through it. Problem solved!
I changed the part about Dahl's motivations to this (the bolded part changed):
As for why did he create the Brotherhood, it has been proposed (refining a proposal originally by Indighost with additions by Flatline and myself) that Ormos is divided into five nations (one per color) that embroiled the plane in a religious war before the rise of the Brotherhood. Dahl (not yet "Father") came to Ormos and saw the horror of war as soldiers were ransacking villages for fun. As a planeswalker, he had already been to Esper and Fiora, worlds where the governing body controls the populace with fear, secrets, and magic. So he saw the perfect occasion to imitate that style of government to gain absolute power over the whole plane of Ormos, using that of ending the war as the perfect excuse. The plan worked (maybe with the help of Bolas who sends his agent Tezzeret to help? Maybe that's why Tezzeret comes every now and then on Ormos, to check that everything is still as Bolas wants?), effectively ending the war, but at the price of creating an oppressive regime in the process. The five nations still survive, but they're all controlled by the Brotherhood.
How about this version?
Also:
MINISTRIES
Names are the best I can think of, but if you have better ideas suggest them! The one I want to keep is the blue one, I just think it's perfect! I called them "Bureau" to differentiate from 1984.
WBureau of Order: it deals with making laws, maintaining public order, managing all the camps except for Correction Camps, and propaganda. UBureau of Truth: it deals with information and education, constantly making sure that all the schools and the analogue of the media spread the "right" information. BBureau of Guilt: it deals with torture and brainwashing, using them to punish the "guilty" (where the name comes from), which actually are anyone who committed even a slight infraction, no matter how small it can be. It manages the Correction Camps, using those means at full extent to "re-educate" the prisoners. RBureau of Creativity: it deals with all forms of entertainment and art, making sure that also those, like the blue one, spread the "right" word. This can be a good occasion to try to show the more creative and artistic side of red. GBureau of Nutrition: it deals with managing the food and waste systems for camps, schools, public offices and all population really.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I won't comment too much on this since we are pausing, but I will say that I like the white, black and blue bureaus, but I'm not too sure about the red an green ones. Could one of these be a bureau of defense perhaps? Maybe it could be red, and instead of Goblins, red could be Viashino, and they could act as the grunts for The Brotherhood. Also, I wouldn't mind trying to come up with something a little more religious sounding than bureau, but I'm drawing a blank right now. Ministry sounds better, but I agree we should switch it up from 1984.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I agree that we eventually need to come up with a motivation for why Dahl is doing all this, whether Tezzeret, Bolas, both, or neither are involved in the story.
I'm still not picturing all magic being dampened on Ormos, just the ability for planeswalkers to come and go from the plane (I actually think it's more important for planeswalkers not to be able to come to Ormos than it is for them not to leave. Dahl doesn't want some planeswalker showing up and ruining his plans). He (and Tezzeret if needed), could just have some other device that allows them to bypass this. I'm ok going the dampened magic route if others want to, its just not how I was originally picturing things. It would certainly make some sense since it would help Dahl stay in power, and could be justified easily (under Dahl's religion, magic could be a sin, unless of course you're a god). Still, I've always assumed that Dahl kept such tight control over his citizens that he knew all magic was being used for his benefit anyway (remember, most citizens love and worship Dahl, he is god). If we did go that route, I like the network idea there also, and that there are areas the network doesn't cover. Kind of like cell phone towers, some areas have better service than others. The big problem I see with all that is, having no/very little magic on the plane is odd enough that it kind of shifts the whole focus of the block to that. Right?
Edit: Actually, as long as he fails, do we really even need to know what Dahl's (or Bolas's?) end game was?
Edit2: Yes, we are still far from making cards. I'm excited to start that process, but this all needs to be worked out first for sure. I block can't be good without a strong foundation.
Edit3: I'm still not picturing Dahl being red. I also think he is the one to invent these devices, and they are infused with magic of his doing, but I'm fine if he now has others actually making them for him. Perhaps we need a Ministry of Artifice (Industry)? That's strictly an out of thin air thought though, I'm not sure I really support it. Again, in my mind, Dahl is outwardly white (fake-white), but his motivations are black. Maybe we could drop blue, but then he is still W/B in my mind. I kind of see anger as sin in Dahl's religion, he wants his people as docile and subservient as he can keep them. Someone that is outlawing Anger can't be red in my mind.
Edit4: His mind control could be faith based, not magic based (think Preacher), but that hasn't been done in MTG for a long time. Right? It would allow us to drop the blue though, using lion's Nahiri logic to justify his being an artificer. Still, this changes the way I see Dahl's personality. In my mind, he's a blue black walker posing as white to gain power, if he ever got reprinted outside of Ormos, he would not be white. At least that's the way I've always seen it.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Just so you know, I'm putting together a huge attempt at an overall story, even bigger than what I did yesterday. As soon as I'm done with it I'll post it here.
I agree that we eventually need to come up with a motivation for why Dahl is doing all this, whether Tezzeret, Bolas, both, or neither are involved in the story.
I think this all works, there may certainly be a few details to refine here and there, but I propose the following plot for the first set.
I like Bolas manipulating Dahl via Tezzeret for his own unknown purposes. I just think it's the perfect solution. Dahl is doing this to gain power for himself, Bolas who knows why, and Tezzeret because Bolas is ordering him to. Dahl and Tezzeret did know each other in the Infinite Consortium, of which Dahl was a member too, and Bolas knows that, so he sends Tezzeret to Dahl on Ormos because he knows they already know each other. For some of his machinations, he wants Ormos locked out of the Multiverse, so he sends Tezzeret to his old friend Dahl on Ormos to convince him to create a network of magical stones to act as a "shield" over Ormos (what about "Shield Network" as a name? I like it, I'll use that throughout this post), completely blocking planeswalkers from getting in AND out the plane of Ormos.
The eventual planeswalkers that happen to be on Ormos at the moment of the activation of the Shield Network are thus stuck on the plane (kind of like Ob Nixilis is stuck on Zendikar, but for different reasons), and as they're no longer able to 'walk away they appear as just powerful but ordinary mages to the eyes of Ormosian citizens (the five nations are in power at this time, and at war with each other). Dahl and Tezzeret both implant themselves with a chip (a way to get the implants into the story) that lets the two of them bypass the Shield Network, allowing only the two of them to planeswalk in and out of Ormos.
The Shield Newtork has a side effect, though. To work, it needs a lot of magical energy (one could maybe say mana?), so there is less available for Ormosian mages to use. This is the source of the "dampened magic" on Ormos. In fact, those mages notice that their power decreased, but as the Shield Network was built secretly, they don't yet understand why. This will come in handy later, so let's keep this in mind and go on.
Once the Shield Network is created and working, Tezzeret returns to Bolas, telling Dahl he will secretly (meaning out of the eyes of Ormosian citizens) come back every now and then to check that "everything is working". This is what he tells Dahl, but he actually means "that everything is working as my Dragon Master Bolas wants". Once Tezzeret leaves, Dahl, seeking power for himself (black motivation), realizes he's now the only one with active planeswalker powers throughout the plane, and sees this as the perfect opportunity to gain absolute power over the whole plane.
He comes up with a plan: create a fake religion (white means) with him as the god ("Father Dahl"), called the Brotherhood. He tells people and shows them that he can do things no one else can on Ormos (we know that not even other planeswalkers can because of the Shield Network being active) and justifies that to Ormosian citizen saying that he's a god and they should worship him as such. Eventually, after some years, between people spreading the word and him showing them multiple times his powers, enough people believe that he's actually a god and the plan comes to fruition. In the meantime, while the word is still spreading and his power growing, he creates a pseudo-church with many different oppressive laws, decrees, and such (including fake tales of what the Brotherhood is and how he rose to power, and also erasing all previous traces of planeswalkers and rewriting that part of history), presenting them as his word and thus the "word of a god". This pseudo-church is divided into the five "ministries" (we still need the right word for those and to define them exactly).
Always while the word is still spreading and his power growing, he realizes that now he just needs one more thing: a way to make sure people actually do what "his word" imposes them to. He needs a way to control them. So he does two things:
• As the magic is dampened by the Shield Network, he needs to recur to technological means. He creates (or has his "Ministry of Artifice" create) and puts to use a series of devices like chips (represented by the new Implant subtype), drones, and such.
• He needs to build structures to punish those that he calls the "guilty", meaning everyone who committed even a slight infraction, despite how little it may be. The law is useless if you don't enforce it. So he comes up with an idea to kill two birds with one stone: he needs punishing structures, and he needs to protect the Shield Network nodes (the magical stones) at the cost of his life, because it's what allowed him to be seen as a god in the first place, thus establishing his power. If the Network breaks (as we know it will), it's a disaster for him. So he thinks of building camps right in the places the stone nodes are. He builds two types of camps: the Workcamps (where prisoners are forced to work too many hours a day as a punishment for what they did) and the Correction Camps (where the most difficult prisoners are first tortured and then brainwashed again). The first infraction brings you to a Workcamp, while the second one, or another infraction while you're in a Workcamp, gets you to a Correction Camp. Obviously all camps have a lot of guards keeping things under control. Two birds with one stone: he gets to punish people thus enforcing his law AND he has guards protecting the stone nodes at the same time!
But he realized he might have a problem: if someone unfortunately understands he posed camps right on the stone nodes, they could find a way to destroy or gain control of the Shield Network. So he builds additional camps in places where the stone nodes are not, to confuse things. So not all camps have a stone node within, but all stone nodes are in a camp (either a Workcamp or Correction Camp). Only Dahl knows which camps have the stone node.
The system Dahl created and enforced is massive, but doesn't prevent a few of those mages I mentioned before (remember, those I said they would have come in handy later) from wanting to understand why their powers decreased. As magic is dampened but not completely out, they still can use what little magic is left to them to study the case, it will just take longer. They start reuniting as a little group of three, maybe four of them, and together they try to understand what's happening. After some years of study (say about 10 years from the activation of the Shield Network), they discover the Shield Network and understand that it is the cause their powers have decreased. They don't discover that the Shield Network blocks planeswalkers though, which actually is its main purpose with magic dampening as a side effect. They came to the conclusion that to have their full magical powers back they must destroy the Network. They don't know that doing so would also cause planeswalkers to be able to 'walk again. They just want their magical powers back. This is the start of the Rebellion. They begin spreading the word of what they found and that the Shield Network must be destroyed. Obviously they do so as secretly as they can to avoid being caught.
One day, some years later (about 15-20 years total since the activation of the Shield Network), one of those few mages meets a strange person. She is an almost mad-looking (not actually mad though, just the looks) young woman that loves smashing things just for the fun of smashing them. She looks very interested at what the Rebel mage (as they started to call themselves) tells her, much more interested than the average person. Her name is Freigh (pronounced as Fry in my mind), and she is one of those planeswalkers who got stuck on Ormos as the Shield Network was activated. That happened when she was still very young though (just a bit more than the age Domri Rade had when his spark ignited). She's not native to Ormos and she is a red/green character mechanically focused on artifact destruction. She understands that there could be something more, and that the Network might have to do with her inability to planeswalk anymore. She starts frequenting the Rebel mages and helping them, always secretly of course. Slowly but steadily during the following years (about 25-30 years total since the activation of the Shield Network), the Rebellion gains followers among common people too, not only mages. Even though no one has ever been officially declared the leader of the Rebellion, Freigh starts being seen as a point of reference by many of the Rebels, as she built a very good name for herself in the Rebellion and the mages didn't want to get too exposed for fear of being caught. Freigh quickly understands that destroying the Shield Network would bring to the fall of Dahl's Brotherhood, but she's fine with that. She understands that actually can help them gain followers. In fact, many who join are kept unaware of the Shield Network (to avoid exposing the mages to excessive risk of getting caught) and the Rebels start presenting themselves as more of a rebellion against the Brotherhood.
Another few decades pass (about 50-60 years total since the activation of the Shield Network). Dahl implanted specific chips in himself to extend his lifespan, so he's still alive in his full forces. Freigh started locating the stone nodes and destroying them, always as secretly as she can. She has always managed to avoid being caught so far. In the meantime, in Workcamp 78 an unfortunate event happens: a woman prisoner gets pregnant. As usual in these cases (a few other ones have happened in the past), the father is immediately sent to a Correction Camp, while the mother stays in the Workcamp until the end of her pregnancy. When the baby is born, she is sent to a Correction Camp too (a different one of course), and the baby is given a number and stays in the Workcamp, passing there all their life. This baby is a female and has been assigned the number 137-F, where the F stands for "female". She grows in Workcamp 78 while being exposed to different prisoners that come and go from the camp. Some of those prisoners tell her of the starting Rebellion against the Brotherhood, and as she always wondered how it was like to live on the outside, she becomes fascinated by those tales and starts developing a desire to possibly join the Rebellion one day.
When she's about 20 (so 70-80 years total since the activation of the Shield Network), one day in the camp she sees an aged but still agile lady entering the camp while the guards were distracted. She immediately understands she must be one of the Rebels. She thinks that may be the perfect occasion to finally be able to help the Rebellion and who knows, maybe even join them! So she starts following the lady throughout the camp without being seen by the guards until she's able to reach her. As the lady sees herself reached by a girl dressing as a prisoner, at first she feared an ambush of the guards, and went hiding behind a wall, in a repaired place. The girl follows her and when they're safe asks her: "Are you a Rebel?". She understood such a young girl in a prisoner dress couldn't possibly be a guard and asks her back: "Are you a prisoner?"
"I've been born here. I've been told of what you're doing. Let me help you. I know this place perfectly, all the corridors, the rooms, the places... this is where I've grown up after all, but I've always dreamed of a free life. I can only imagine what it's like!"
"Good girl! My name is Freigh, and yes, I am a Rebel."
"I wish I had a name to tell you, but I've just got a number..."
"Don't worry, I know how things work around here. I think I could use your help. Do you know of any room here that is kept constantly under guard, maybe called "secret room" or something like that?"
"Yes, actually I've heard some guards talk about a "forbidden room" sometimes..."
"And do you know where it is?"
"I'm not sure, as they don't normally allow us to arrive there, but I have a guess..."
"Good enough. Take me there!"
And so the two women, after having to kill some guards, reach the "forbidden room".
"So you wanted to join us, didn't you?"
"Yes!"
"Well, here's your moment. Are you ready, girl? We're about to destroy the single thing the Brotherhood cares the most about! The last stone node of the Shield Network!"
They enter the room and the stone is there, right at the center of the room. Freigh takes her sword, empowered with what little magic the Rebel mages could put in it, and hits the stone node, destroying it. It was the last one: it had within itself all the magical energy of the whole Network. That energy bursts out in a huge explosion that kills Freigh and blinds 137-F, almost killing her too. She just has the time to take Freigh's magical sword in her hand before feeling like passing out.
She finds herself somewhere unknown. This is her first planeswalk, and her spark just ignited, and there was no Shield Network anymore to keep her on Ormos, but she doesn't know all of that yet. She looks around herself and finds some people. She tries to tell them what just happened to her, but they seem to not understand. One of them proposes to bring her to one of their mages, maybe he would understand her. They bring her to her village, where she's brought to XYZ (insert male returning planeswalker here, possibly white). She explains to him what happened and he immediately understands. He tells her about the spark, the Multiverse, and introduces her to what planeswalking means. Her mind is blown away by all of this, she wanted to experience what freedom was like, but this was even more than all she could ever have hoped for! XYZ invites her to stay with him at least for a few days, as long as she needed to recover. She agrees. In those days, she tells him all about Ormos, the Brotherhood, the camps, the Rebellion, and asks him for his help. He gladly agrees. During those days, they also start feeling something for each other. One day, she tells him that she has no name except for a number. XYZ is horrified at the thought of people being just numbers and offers to give her himself a name. She loves the idea, and maybe loves him too. He names her Ziarn, which means "seed", as in both this being just the "seed" of her journey as a planeswalker, and her being hopefully the "seed" of the Rebellion on Ormos. As soon as she recovers her strength, she asks him to come with her back to Ormos and help the Rebellion. He agrees, and they both planeswalk to Ormos.
As they arrive on Ormos, Ziarn's attention is caught by a small group of Rebels talking to each other and wondering what happened to Freigh, who has disappeared since a few days ago. She walks to them and explains them what happened and that Freigh is dead and she was there. They immediately bring her in a hideout, where all the highest ranked Rebels were meeting to decide what to do after Freigh's sudden disappearance. They stop the meeting, asking them to listen to what this woman has to say. She tells everything to them too, bringing Freigh's sword, which she still had with herself, as proof. They believe her and they tell her that Freigh was actually their leader, and as she helped her and was there during the heroic (from their point of view) act that caused Freigh's death, they ask her to become the new leader of the Rebellion. She enthusiastically accepts and leads the Rebellion to victory. How that victory is exactly achieved will be the focus of the second set.
PLANESWALKER BREAKDOWN
First set:
• Father Dahl (WUB focusing on the "I bring/am the rules" side, I can't really see the red in him in the way Flatline talks about him)
• Tezzeret (UB, focusing on the artificer side)
• Freigh (RG, focusing on artifact destruction)
• 137-F, Camp Worker as a monowhite mythic rare Human Rebel legendary creature.
Second set:
• Ziarn (ex 137-F) (RW, focusing on building an army of small creatures and then pumping them, which I envision being her leading the Rebels to battle)
• XYZ (at least W, maybe mono W, as I've not yet included a monocolored planeswalker. Again, Gideon would probably fit perfectly, but we'll have to see BFZ's storyline)
Also note that this way we have two female planeswalker (of which one represented in two cards) and three male ones. It looks like an acceptable balance. It's also quite nice that except for XYZ (whoever he'll be, he must be male), all the females are on the Rebels side and all the males are on the Brotherhood side. For a government that treats women as second class citizen, this fits perfectly!
NAME NOTES
I took the liberty to name our two female characters, as I needed it to tell the story properly.
• Freigh (I imagine it pronounced like "fry" in English) comes from an alteration of the word "Freiheit" that means "freedom" in German. Freedom is what red wants, and what she wants is just the freedom to smash anything she likes whenever she likes.
• "Ziarn" is the actual word for "seed" in Polish (you can hear the pronunciation here, it's easy enough to me, and I guess to native English speakers too). At least, that's what Google Translator tells me in both cases. I used German and Polish as inspiration because the Nazi camps were there, and they are the clear inspiration for the Brotherhood camps. Even if fascism was in Italy, there were very few camps, if any, in Italy, and most of the prisoners were sent to German camps.
Actually, as long as he fails, do we really even need to know what Dahl's (or Bolas's?) end game was?
No, I don't think we need to know why Bolas wants Ormos locked out of the Multiverse in this version. We do know Dahl's motivation though (gaining power).
Yes, we are still far from making cards.
Once we have a story we all like, I'd say to work out the number breakdown and then build the design skeleton. Then we can start designing cards to fill the skeleton.
I'm still not picturing Dahl being red...
Neither do I, as I mention above.
His mind control could be faith based, not magic based (think Preacher), but that hasn't been done in MTG for a long time. Right?
Last time I remember was in Time Spiral (Evangelize), so yes, it was quite a while ago and in a set/block that is not the best source for precedents.
It would allow us to drop the blue though, using lion's Nahiri logic to justify his being an artificer. Still, this changes Dahl's personality in my mind. He's a blue black walker in my mind, if he ever got reprinted outside of Ormos, he would not be white. At least that's the way I've always seen it.
I propose to use mechanical identity to separate Dahl from Tezzeret, as I also mentioned above. That's the only problem in my opinion: the color overlap between them. That's also why I don't want any more blue or black planeswalkers in the block.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I have no internet where I am, except in my car. I'll try to respond to this asap.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
1. No one is faking a color here. We agree on Dahl having black motivations and white means, and I'd say this is pretty established by now. The blue in him comes from him being an artificer. It's certainly the less important color of the three, and I and Flatline went back and forth multiple times about dropping it. Having Dahl be just WB with his artificer side being justified by white (I brought up the Nahiri example) was a thing we were indeed discussing. I can see us going both ways and I'd really like to hear what Flatline's opinion on this is now.
2. Bolas did get his immortality back? I thought Alara was just a failed attempt. I'm just honestly wondering here...
Anyway, why Dahl is so attached to Ormos is a real point, and one I've been thinking about since yesterday. Possible solutions I thought of:
• Dahl is actually native to Ormos (only Ziarn in my breakdown is native to Ormos so far, we can have two, in Ravnica there are even more), so he's attached to Ormos because it's his home plane. Gaining power above all his home plane has always been his dream since his childhood. His spark somehow ignited during the war before the Brotherhood, maybe he was almost killed in battle and the threat of being killed made his spark ignite? Anyway, his spark ignites and sends him to either Esper or Fiora. Maybe Fiora is better as Esper doesn't exist anymore as a single plane after the Conflux, but Esper could be better because we could say Tezzeret was still there at that time and the two get to know there, with no need for Dahl to be a member of the Infinite Consortium anymore. Anyway, he sees the way government rules there and that gives him the idea of using similar means on his home plane of Ormos to make his lifelong dream a reality. So he comes back to Ormos and begins wondering how to do such a thing there. Then Tezzeret (who in the meantime has become an agent of Bolas) arrives, tells him Bolas wants to lock Ormos, etc...
• Dahl is still not native to Ormos and a member of the Infinite Consortium, but there may be something he badly wants on that plane. Maybe it's a powerful artifact (not the Chain Veil of course, which we can safely assume Dahl knows nothing about), or anything, and that's what brings him to Ormos. While he's there Tezzeret arrives, etc...
• Dahl is again not native to Ormos and a member of the Infinite Consortium, but in his planar travels he saw that there are indeed much more powerful beings than him. Wanting to achieve such power himself too, he saw gaining control of a whole plane as step 1. If he isn't even able to get control of just a single plane, how can he pretend to be able to achieve interplanar power? So he uses the plane of Ormos as a test for his ability to gain power on a single plane ("let's see if I'm able to do this here..."). Why Ormos? Because it just happens to be the plane where he was when he came up with that idea, so he might as well just use the plane he happens to be on for his "test".
• Dahl is native to Ormos, but he doesn't even have the spark, so the most he can do as a black character is gain control over his whole plane. This has huge implications though, both on the story and on the planeswaker breakdown. I'd really really avoid this. Also, I think that Dahl being a planeswalker is a very important part of Flatline's original idea. Am I correct, Flatline?
These are my ideas until now. The one I like the most is the first, but I'd have no big problem to go with another one. I agree this is probably the weakest point in my version of the story.
3. About the Network: I like Shield Network exactly because it sounds more technological than magical, but I can see the objection that it's quite magical as it's absorbing most of the plane's magic and it's the cause of the dampened magic on Ormos. Can "Leyline Network" be a good compromise? I think the word "Network" is necessary, both as a single noun for the whole, well, network, and because it's what it actually is in my mind: a network of leylines guided by the stone nodes.
About XYZ: No, XYZ is NOT trapped on the plane when the Network is activated. He's not there at the time, so he's actually locked OUT of Ormos then. We don't even mention him in the first set. He only enters the story at the moment the Network is broken and Ziarn's spark ignites. So if we have him in the block, it needs to be in the second set (which in my mind is everything after the Network gets broken). If we have him being trapped on Ormos and being the one who attempts to liberate Ormos, that invalidates the whole Ziarn's storyline. We have no need for a 137 anymore, whose mission is meant to be exactly that of liberating Ormos, and that has both even bigger implications than Dahl not being a planeswalker and is a fundamental change to Flatline's original vision. Again, am I correct Flatline?
About Dahl: getting killed? I've never thought he got killed at the end of the block. I just pictured him planeswalking away when the rebellion wins to escape.
About Liliana: I actually don't see any reason to involve her. She has other things (namely, her Demons) to take care of. And if she uses the Chain Veil to suppress the Network, there's no need for the Freigh storyline. It looks to me like a completely different story, not a revision of my version. I'm not saying my version is perfect, of course, I'm just saying this is a completely different thing. It may worse or even better, but it's something different and uncompatible. I'm just acknowledging that.
About Gideon and BFZ: I was actually playing with the idea that if Zendikar gets saved at the end of BFZ and Gideon doesn't planeswalk away, Ziarn's first walk could be to Zendikar. The group of people she meets there would be a group of Zendikari people and they bring her to their home village, where Gideon is, etc... But if either Zendikar gets completely destroyed at the end of BFZ and/or Gideon planeswalks away, that is not viable. And to know that we'll have to wait for BFZ. If we find a way to ignore Zendikar we won't have to wait for BFZ, but then XYZ can't be Gideon, as he's quite linked to Zendikar right now.
4. In fact the main character for the Rebellion, who is Ziarn that will lead it to victory, will be RW as a planeswalker by the time she becomes its leader. If you mean Freigh, I admit I was also looking for a way to get a green planeswalker in the block (there are no green planeswalkers otherwise). That's why I made her green (in addition to red) at first, then I realized that perfectly fits with the flavor of her being an artifact smasher. White gets to destroy artifacts too, so if we want we could make her Naya colored, but we already have Dahl (which blue or not, will be white anyway), Ziarn for sure, and XYZ if he's Gideon (and probably anyway). Do we really need FOUR white planeswalkers out of five in the block? I thought about that and my answer was "no, we don't need it, three is enough of a focus for white" (I don't think there are three planeswalkers in the same block sharing a color in real Magic, or if there are that happens rarely), and I made Freigh just RG, which by the way I think is the best color combination given her flavor. Anyway, the Rebellion is mainly Naya colors: red and white for the reasons you say, green because we can't cut it from the block and being the ally of both, it makes sense.
5. The second set focuses on the Rebellion winning, so it might make sense to have both planeswalkers in it be from that side. The alternative is having Ziarn and the fallen Dahl, as Flatline mentioned sometime ago, but in that case it would be better for XYZ to not come to Ormos at all. He serves as Ziarn's guide but when she asks to follow her to Ormos he says "no, excuse me, but I already have enough things to take care of, maybe I'll come one day in the future, but not now", which may or may not fit Gideon: he has indeed many things to take care of in both Ravnica and Zendikar, so many that he already deprives himself of sleep, but I can't really see him turning down a request for help. Or, if the block is indeed double large (and there should be a reason for it, I'm not sure the Rebellion winning is enough of a reason), than we can have three planeswalkers in the second set too, them being Ziarn (RW), XYZ (certainly W, but mono W? We lack monocolored planeswalkers), and the fallen Dahl (mono B now that his white means have failed?).
But on Ormos we have pretty much "three" sides: Brotherhood, Resistance & Planeswalking travelers (stuck on Ormos). We just need to find the right split here.
I see this differently. I see two sides (the Brotherhood and the Rebellion), with the planeswalkers stuck on Ormos being 1- not that many and anyway we only see one (Freigh), and 2- not necessarily on the Rebellion side (Freigh is but we don't see any others). I just picture most of them to either not understand what it is that is blocking them or be indifferent in the Brotherhood/Rebellion conflict. Also, I don't see them being an organized group, as both the Brotherhood and the Rebellion are.
I'd like to hear Flatline's opinion on these points. I know he has troubles with the internet where he is now, so take your time.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I apologize for not responding to the last couple of posts yet. It has been a lot more difficult to find time for card making while I'm vacation than I anticipated (plus I have no internet, except in the car). I have copied the last few posts into a local word doc. on my computer, and I hope to find the time to write up my response at some point this evening. I can't make any guarantees though. Again, I apologize for holding things up, I'm as eager to keep things moving as anybody.
Edit: Also, I've been re-reading 1984, which I just finished last night. Reading that was taking up a lot of my free time, although I consider it research for the block.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
What if in the first set, the brotherhood (Which, at that time, controls the plane) is centered in WUB and the upstart rebellion is centered in RG (which can help reinforce the "white gone bad" theme), and in the second set, with the victory of the rebels, they "conquer" a color (most likely black) from the brotherhood, as they are now the dominant faction and have a higher percentage of cards?
The problem, of course, is that 137 is white, and wants to be in a central color of the rebellion, but again, this is just a cool idea I thought of.
Here's my response, finally! I hope it doesn't just make things more confusing, taking a one week break is tough, it was not my intention to do so, it's just how it ended up working out. I'll reply to scrad's and civmaster's posts separately later. Thanks for the taking an interest guys, I don't want you to feel ignored, all on-topic comments are certainly welcome.
I apologize for the delayed response. As I said before, I didn’t think finding time and posting from vacation was going to be so difficult. Also, I intended to post this last night (I got back from vacay Sun morning), but then I was stung by a bee and ended up in the hospital all night (which is weord because I’ve never had a problem with bee stings before). Anyway, here’s my attempt at a response to the last few posts from lion and Tilwin. Although I’m not necessarily responding to people’s thoughts directly, hopefully this post expresses my thoughts, and answers people’s questions well enough. If not, please post them again. It was difficult for me to take in all that has been said in the last few posts, and it’s possible that I haven’t completely clarified where I would like to see things go in my post below. Overall, I agree with lion’s basic layout. Generally, if I my comments below are not addressing all that was said, it’s most likely because I agree with much of what lion has laid out in his last few threads (although I could be overlooking something). In the rest of this post, I’m mostly trying to address those things that I am seeing differently, or have changed my thoughts on.
I’m starting to wonder if having Tezzeret in the story is more trouble than it’s worth. He is somewhat redundant with Dahl, and he adds complication to the story. I’m fine if we still include him, but I’m not sure it’s necessary. How about this instead….
Dahl served in the government on his homeplane. He was caught developing some device that he planned to use to take the plane from the ruling party. He was then sentenced to death. During his execution, his spark ignites and he escapes with his life. The government of his homeplane then sends out few planeswalkers (Freigh being one of them) to find him and bring him back so that justice can be served.
After a bit of time on the run, Dahl eventually finds Ormos. Ormos is a young and fairly undeveloped plane on the outskirts of the multiverse (ie: it is a remote and somewhat inconsequential plane and therefore it is not visited by planeswalkers very much. Hopefully this concept works in Magic, I’m not posititve). The citizens of Ormos are somewhat primitive when compared to citizens from other planes, and have been locked in a planewide holy war for times untold. The sides of this holywar are divided as such:
: Clerics, who believe in a single god that is the absolute ruler of all things. (Main race: Humans)
: Atheists, who believe in no “superstitions”. They consider themselves to be scientific people, and would prefer the “religious zealots” not stand in the way of progress. (Main race: Vadelken)
: Worshipers of the underworld that believe in a religion that is basically the worship of death. They believe that only in death can one be set free, and that the body is just a vessel to be used. (Main race: Ratillions (Rat-Folk))
: The Shamans believe in a mysticism that is dependent upon personal growth through individual experience. (Main race: Viashino or Goblins)
: Druids that believe in the ultimate power of nature. (Main race: Elves?)
Each of these sects believed that their philosophy was the only correct philosophy, which caused the five sects to be at constant war. Also, although, I’m mentioning a “main race” for each sect, I think we can have sects include some members of the other races as well. The plane is divided along philosophical lines more so than racial ones.
Dahl immediately sets about exploiting the religious chaos that is the plane of Ormos. He aligns himself with the cleric faction of the war, and claims to be a messenger from their God. The clerics don’t have a hard time buying because of Dahls charisma and power (they haven’t seen a lot of planeswalkers). Also, they clearly see that the powerful Dahl may be just the advantage they need to win the war. With Dahl on their side, the clerics quickly gain an advantage over the rest of the factions on the plane, and eventually establish their own religion as the one true religion, with Dahl as its leader. Once this happens, Dahl begins to preach unity and brotherhood for all of the Ormosian citizens. In order to appease the remaining factions, Dahl appoints each its own division within the governing body. (I’m using lion’s proposal here, which may need some tweaking at some point, but is certainly a good starting point. I’ve tried to think of something better than ministry, but it is just the best thing to call them. It could just be our homage to 1984?)
WMinistry of Order: it deals with making laws, maintaining public order, managing all the camps except for Correction Camps, and propaganda. UMinistry of Truth (or maybe artifice): it deals with information and education, constantly making sure that all the schools and the analogue of the media spread the "right" information. BMinistry of Guilt: it deals with torture and brainwashing, using them to punish the "guilty" (where the name comes from), which actually are anyone who committed even a slight infraction, no matter how small it can be. It manages the Correction Camps, using those means at full extent to "re-educate" the prisoners. RMinistry of Creativity: it deals with all forms of entertainment and art, making sure that also those, like the blue one, spread the "right" word. This can be a good occasion to try to show the more creative and artistic side of red. (I’m almost wondering if this could be the Ministry of Industry, and Dahl has them slaving away on his drones and whatnot. If the main race of red is Goblins or Viashino, I have a hard time seeing them in art and entertainment.) GMinistry of Agriculture: it deals with managing the food and waste systems for camps, schools, public offices and all population really.
After Dahl after Dahl is firmly entrenched as the ruler of Ormos, he quickly puts the Ministry of Truth to work rewriting history and “teaching” (brainwashing) the population the orthodoxy of the newfound Brotherhood. While doing so, he eventually transforms himself from a disciple of God, to God himself. He also begins work on a network of devices that would isolate Ormos from the rest of the multiverse, thus allowing no other planeswalker to enter or leave the plane. This traps Freigh, who had finally tracked Dahl to Ormos (say after 10 or so years). Realizing she can’t defeat Dahl herself (he now has the entire plane under his command), she sets about recruiting help. This is the beginning of the rebellion, which begins quite slowly at first due to Dahl’s complete influence over the minds of the Ormosians. Meanwhile, Freigh is finding and destroying the isolation network. She is caught, while attempting to destroy the last one, and is sent to a deathcamp (probably need to rename this, deathcamp brings up a touchy image, also the Brotherhood would give them a positive sounding name. It’s possible that death sentences could just be carried out in the correction camps).
In the meantime, 137-F attempts to escape her workcamp and is caught. This lands her in the same deathcamp as Freigh. In this deathcamp, they then meet, become friends and eventually escape. Together they again attempt to destroy the final stone in the network. This time successfully. Destroying the final stone sets off an explosion that kills Friegh and ignites 137-F’s spark, causing her to planeswalk away from Ormos. This is the end of the first set. The first set starts with the Brotherhood already firmly entrenched, the Isolation Network already in place, and the rebellion starting to enter its middle stages.
This would bring us back to only two planeswalkers in the first set (Dahl , and Friegh ), but I still feel like the block needs to be large-large (since the rebellion doesn’t get going in earnest until the second set), which would allow us to have 3 planeswalkers in the 2nd set (137-F, Gideon?, and whoever (with the isolation network destroyed, anyone can show up.) Notice that I am not including anything about dampened magic in my story. I think we have enough things going on in this block already that we don’t need to add a weakened-magic theme. I am still willing to go forward with one, but we’d have to think of some way to represent it that doesn’t step on Zendikar’s toes (I know the ideas aren’t exactly alike, but they seem somewhat similar to me). We are already trying to fit in white as the main antagonist, rebels, oppressive government/religion, and a minor artifact theme, I’m not sure there’s room for something as big as magic-dampening as well. I could be wrong.
Again, I’m not going to into more detail in my story because I agree with many of the details of lion’s story, I just wanted to touch on the things I am seeing a little differently. To recap:
- There is no dampened magic, and the set is not technology focused. The artifacts in the set are similar to artifacts we’ve seen in past magic sets, and are magic based.
- No Tezzeret. The block is large-large, and planeswalkers are dispersed: 2-3. Although, we could still include Tezzeret if others want, which would flip the planewalker distribution (but I still think the block needs to be large-large, and I think Tezzeret complicates things unnecessarily. Without him, we just need to know Dahl’s motivation, which is basically just power. The reason he chooses Ormos is because he belives it to be the best place to hide from the planeswalkers seeking him).
- Freigh doesn’t break into the camp, she and 137-F breakout. (BTW, maybe pronounced Fray?)
- Dahl doesn’t create a fake religion, he takes over an already existing one, then writes himself into it as the god of it over time.
- Instead of five nations, the plane is split into five philosophy based sects. These sects end up being transformed into the various Ministries that have been setup by the Brotherhood, although any adherence to their old teachings is strictly forbidden as blasphemy. The Brotherhood also makes it difficult to adhere to the old ways by erasing all history of them from media and textbooks.
- I definitely see this block as Brotherhood vs Rebels. The rest of the story is just there to help set up the block. If we end up liking Dahl enough at the end of this block, perhaps we could revisit his backstory in a different prequel type block later.
-I'm not sure that the Brotherhood really needs to be in power for quite as long as I was originally thinking to change the way people remember history. In 1984, the Party does it in something like 45 years. BTW, if anybody wants to read that it would be awesome! It would go along way towards helping me to explain what I'm thinking (same with A Handmaid's Tale). I just re-read 1984 while on vacation and it only took me 2 days, so it's not a long read (although I am a rather fast reader). BTW, A Handmaid's Tale is also a pretty fast read.
One last note of importance…. Although Dahl has built a system of strict laws, surveillance and punishment, he still mostly controls his people through religion and re-education. When someone is caught doing wrong on Ormos, most of the citizens think this person should be punished. This often includes the person being punished. A couple themes that are common to both 1984 and A Handmaid’s Tale (as well as numerous other dystopian novels) are paranoia and distrust. People are generally afraid to express their feelings of discontent because they are never sure if the person they are talking to will blow them in for what they are saying, whether the person is a Brotherhood agent, or just an average citizen. It takes a long time to trust anybody on Ormos under the Dahl regime, even your own family might turn you in to the authorities in order to “save” you. In 1984, children are encouraged to join a group called the Spies, and are rewarded for turning in their own parents for infractions as minor as speaking out against the Party in their sleep (the Party is akin to our Brotherhood, in 1984 the Brotherhood is actually a fictitious group of rebels that have been created by the Party in order to help ferret out thoughtcriminals).
Edit: Perhaps it may be better to address some of the more complicated issues we're facing individually for a bit instead of posting these long posts that try to cover everything?
Edit2:
Isolation Stone
Artifact (R)
Planeswalkers your opponents control lose all types and abilities, and become creatures with base power and toughness each equal to their converted mana cost.
, : Put a loyalty counter on target planeswalker you control
Edit3: As far as faking a color is concerned, that is my fault, I've been suggesting that Dahl is fake-white. Is that not something that's possible? What I mean is, Dahl was (and still is philosophically) B/U, he has only recently adopted white because he realizes it would be the easiest way to advance his agenda on Ormos. In his mind, he is not white. Does that make sense? BTW, this is also one of the reasons I always pictured Dahl as blue (as well as the fact that he's is an artificer in my mind), because it is generally the color that copies other people's ideas.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Wow, this really starts to make sense! I like just about everything of that, and I think inserting bits from my version into yours where they are missing (I feel justified doing that by the fact that you said you liked my version of the story where you didn't mention anything) will give us a very coherent and solid story to finally start designing cards on. I'll try that later tonight. I'd like to come up with a final version that hopefully everyone likes so that we won't touch it anymore unless for very serious reasons.
A few small notes:
• In my mind Freigh is pronounced like "Fry" because I took it from German and one of the very few pronunciation rules I know of it is that "ei" is pronounced like the "y" in "Fry", which would be "ai" in Italian. Anyway, this is a very minor point and doesn't cause any real trouble. Think of how people differently pronounce "Garruk" for example. I'd say let everyone pronounce it as they naturally do and don't worry about it.
• So, a few (hopefully) final names: Isolation Network, the Ministries, Freigh, Ratillions.
• About the Ministries: I'm ok with keeping the word if everyone else is too. Also, I love the red Ministry of Industry idea and I think it fits much better in our world. I'd say let's implement it immediately.
• I still don't have a clear understanding of why this block is double large, but I'll just accept it and move on.
• With accepting the block as double large, the 2/3 planeswalker split is definitely fine.
• I think our last planeswalker in the second set should also be a returning one, we are short there as we only have Gideon hypothetically (let's see what happens in BFZ first). I don't know who that could be though. I'd like it to be one of the "minor" ones like Tamiyo and such, because I really feel they deserve more time in the spotlight and they are easier to implement as they have less "real" backstory.
• I really feel the deathcamps should just be Correction Camps and death sentences are just executed in Correction Camps. They are still a form of punishment after all. It saves us the need for a new word and it's still very coherent: the Correction Camps execute all forms of punishment and reeducation.
• Is there still room for the chips/implants as means of control for Dahl to use? I don't have that very clear, and it heavily impacts our design with the related Implant artifact subtype. I hope so because I really liked the idea.
• The single devices in the Isolation Network are NOT placed in Camps anymore and we don't actually care where they are located except for the last one. Is this correct?
"Leo's story ver. 2.0" including the best from both versions will follow later.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I've included my response within lion's quote. I don't know how to break it up like lion does. My responses are in bold, and they are not actually part of lion's original quote. Sorry if this makes things more confusing.
Wow, this really starts to make sense! I like just about everything of that, and I think inserting bits from my version into yours where they are missing (I feel justified doing that by the fact that you said you liked my version of the story where you didn't mention anything) will give us a very coherent and solid story to finally start designing cards on. I'll try that later tonight. I'd like to come up with a final version that hopefully everyone likes so that we won't touch it anymore unless for very serious reasons.
I am very happy you like my changes. I was kind of nervous to bring them up since you did so much work on the story already. And yes, I like the vast majority of what you've laid out already. I eagerly anticipate your revision, and can't thank you enough for all your hard work here.
A few small notes:
• In my mind Freigh is pronounced like "Fry" because I took it from German and one of the very few pronunciation rules I know of it is that "ei" is pronounced like the "y" in "Fry", which would be "ai" in Italian. Anyway, this is a very minor point and doesn't cause any real trouble. Think of how people differently pronounce "Garruk" for example. I'd say let everyone pronounce it as they naturally do and don't worry about it.
I agree with all this.
• So, a few (hopefully) final names: Isolation Network, the Ministries, Freigh, Ratillions.
So you like the Rattillion name? I was little worried that it sounds too much like reptilian. Everything else here is settled as far as I'm concerned.
• About the Ministries: I'm ok with keeping the word if everyone else is too. Also, I love the red Ministry of Industry idea and I think it fits much better in our world. I'd say let's implement it immediately.
Yes, I can think of nothing better. Tilwin's clergy idea might be ok too, but I think ministry is the best option.
• I still don't have a clear understanding of why this block is double large, but I'll just accept it and move on.
It doesn't have to be, but I feel like the first block kind of focuses more on the Brotherhood, whereas the second block focuses more on the rebels. I wouldn't mind seeing them get equal time. This might be wrong though, since its not like the rebels aren't in the first block.
• With accepting the block as double large, the 2/3 planeswalker split is definitely fine.
This is another reason for the double large in my mind. It seems difficult to jam another 'walker into the first set with the way it's setup. Especially if we aren't including Tezzeret.
• I think our last planeswalker in the second set should also be a returning one, we are short there as we only have Gideon hypothetically (let's see what happens in BFZ first). I don't know who that could be though. I'd like it to be one of the "minor" ones like Tamiyo and such, because I really feel they deserve more time in the spotlight and they are easier to implement as they have less "real" backstory.
I agree, and I love Tamiyo. She's actually my favorite planswalker for some reason. If we can work her in, I'm all for it. It would definitely be harder to justify why one of the major walkers would be there.
• I really feel the deathcamps should just be Correction Camps and death sentences are just executed in Correction Camps. They are still a form of punishment after all. It saves us the need for a new word and it's still very coherent: the Correction Camps execute all forms of punishment and reeducation.
Agreed. I don't want anything called Death Camps either. They can both end up at the same Correction Camp then, with Freigh awaiting "final enlightenment" (execution) for attempting to destroy the Isolation Network, which is a major infraction. 137-F is just there for a "re-education retreat" (or something like that, I think all Brotherhood related things should have positive names, even if they are quite negative, even Ministry of Guilt seems a bit harsh to me).
• Is there still room for the chips/implants as means of control for Dahl to use? I don't have that very clear, and it heavily impacts our design with the related Implant artifact subtype. I hope so because I really liked the idea.
Yes, I still think the chips work. The Brotherhood wants people to see that people can be reformed, even the ones that actually can't. With so many people disappearing to the camps (or final enlightenment), the Brotherhood wants people to hold out hope that their loved ones may yet be "saved" (or at least rendered harmless) and then return to them. BTW ,the Brotherhood tries to never takes people away in broad daylight, and they never inform any of their survivors as to where they've gone, people are just left wondering.
• The single devices in the Isolation Network are NOT placed in Camps anymore and we don't actually care where they are located except for the last one. Is this correct?
As long as everyone else is cool with it. I'm actually fine they're still located in the camps (your logic is sound), but I like the idea of Freigh and 137-F ending up in the same correction camp and breaking out together. I'm not sure the two ideas jive, but they could be made to if you feel strongly about it.
"Leo's story ver. 2.0" including the best from both versions will follow later.
Some quick questions for clarity's sake...
So your ok with leaving Tezzeret out? As I said, at this point, I think he's an unnecessary complication.
Are you also ok with Dahl taking over an already existing religion, then slowly making himself the God of it, as opposed to him making his own religion that he is already the God of? I definitely think him taking over an already existing religion is the way to go.
So you like the five philosophies idea over the five nations one? This would allow you to use the five nations one as you intended in a later block.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
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As for iconics. Archons as agents of the brotherhood seems to fit. With maybe one or two angels on the rebel side?
I wonder where have I heard the five nation idea before... No problem, if we do that here I already have an idea to adjust my future set. I agree with Indighost that Vedalken looks like a good fit for the blue one. I could see some particular kind of Vampires on Ormos though, maybe they have some peculiarity that sets them apart from the ones from other planes. The first thing that comes into my mind is something like maybe their fangs are made of metal? Or maybe they inject chips into their victims through them? Or maybe they feed on the vital essence of their victims instead of their blood (maybe there's not enough of a difference though)? Or their minds (even though that feels similar to Zombies feeding on brains)? Again, just thinking aloud. If Vampires don't work out, I can see us making up a new race specifically (as we did with the Sandbugs in Extinctia), and that could be the humanoid rat race Indighost is talking about. It's too bad Kamigawa names are too Japanese sounding, otherwise reusing the Nezumi could have been good here.
I also see no big problems having Angels and Demons in Ormos. Anyway, to address the concern that was expressed before about a Magic world not having Elves, Angels, Demons, etc... I have the world for you: Tarkir! Of those, Tarkir only has Demons, and most are Rakshasas, there are few traditional ones (actually I remember just one: Butcher of the Horde, but there may be a few more). Look at the characteristic races: Tarkir has Humans and Goblins, but no Merfolk, Elves, Vampires, or Leonin (if you want to consider them for white, with Humans being in all colors)! And look at iconic races too: I've already mentioned Demons, while there are no Angels, Sphinxes, or Hydras in Tarkir. Dragons obviously are a different matter. So Tarkir has only 1/5 (or 2/5 if you're counting humans for white) of the usual characteristic races, and 2/5 of the iconic ones. That's not a lot! So that shouldn't be a problem in Ormos too.
I like the idea of the device used by Dahl to isolate Ormos from other planes. It immediately reminded me of the hedron network Sorin, Ugin, and Nahiri made to trap the Eldrazi on Zendikar. Maybe that device works similarly, exploiting leylines or something like that? I also like that breaking it is what makes 137's spark ignite. I think then 137 should really be the one who actually breaks it.
The color split just has to be Esper (Brotherhood) vs Naya (Rebels). I see no other real possibility that makes sense.
I agree about everything else that has been said in these lasts posts.
I'll come to making a blog post after I'm done writing a new Lion's Lair issue I've started yesterday, and Flatline should know its inspiration! Just think back of the DCC from a few days ago...
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Ooh, I really think we're onto something here! Could this actually work?
I just forgot about that Hydra, I was going by memory. Ok, make it 3/5 iconic races on Tarkir, it doesn't change the point. It's still half the races total between characteristic and iconic ones.
I can see the point about green's philosophy and the Brotherhood. I mentioned something similar too in the first page. What about making both the Brotherhood and the Rebels all five colors, but centered in different ones? We need some difference to give identity to the factions, we just can't have them both all five colors and stop.
This is another very good suggestion who could be a solution to one of our problems. I've never seen that tv series you mention, but I think something like this might work. Others?
The story starts with the Brotherhood already in power since a few decades. At least, that's what me and Flatline were thinking. And you may be right here too: do we really need to explain how the Brotherhood came into power? I'm not that sure anymore...
EDIT: I just finished, proofread, and published my new article (link in signature if you're interested). Honestly, I'm glad I've done it but it left me exhausted, so my blog post about Ormos won't come before tomorrow. Telling you this so that you don't have false expectations.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I actually really like the idea of Rat-folk being the black race on Ormos. I agree with Lion that they would have to be called something other than Nezumi though. I'm not too sure about Vampires on the plane. Beings that can live as long as Vampires would make it very difficult for The Brotherhood to revise history, because there would be beings still around that were actually alive to remember what happened. I suppose Angels and Archons might work, but they might have the same issue I just brought up for Vampires.
I like the idea of Dahl being connected to Tezzeret in some way. Perhaps we could make it so that the planeswalker that accompanies 137 back to Ormos has had run-ins with Dahl in the past. When he arrives on Ormos, he exposes Dahl for who he really is, which helps the rebellion gain even more momentum (BTW, the rebellion wins in the end in my mind, I'm not sure we've actually said that).
Sorry Lion, I wasn't even thinking about your 5 nations idea when I suggested that. You know I always try to give credit where it is due. I was just brainstorming at the time and came up with 5 because that's how many colors there are in MTG. I’m not really sure the 5 nations idea is the way to go here anyway.
I have no real problem leaving out some traditional MTG races as long as others don't. If others do, I'm sure we could figure some way to include them. Again, any race that lives a lot longer than Humans would put a kink in the revisionist history idea, which I think is an important part of any dystopian future based idea.
I'm coming down on the isolated plane side. I really like the idea that no one can get in or out of Ormos. I think the isolated plane idea might be necessary for Dahl to have controlled the plane for so long. Please hear me out on this....What if in the first set the rebellion is headed by a planeswalker that has been stuck on Ormos due to Dahl's device. This planeswalker has managed to get some citizens of Ormos to believe him when he tells them the true story of Dahl (although he doesn't know Dahl's true identity, he does know Dahl is a planeswalker and isn't who he says he is), this is what helps start the rebellion. At the end of the first set, the rebel planeswalker manages to destroy Dahl's device, but is killed in the process. 137 is somehow involved in this exchange, and her spark ignites at that moment. I'm wondering if perhaps 137 could end up being this rebel planeswalker's daughter? But that might be crazy, at the very least, 137's backstory would have to be altered some if we think this is a good idea. BTW, if this is an idea people like, the rebel planeswalker would need to be race that lives a long time, so that it makes sense that he's been around since Dahl took power.
I'm still up in the air on the color split. Lion's split makes some sense to me, but before he suggested it, I pictured both factions using all five colors, but centered on different colors (W- Brotherhood, R- Rebels). Just because the theme of the block is white gone wrong, doesn't mean I want the other colors to be weak in the set. I guess what I’m saying is, white really has no bigger role on Ormos per se, but the fact that it is the antagonist in the block is rare enough to make it the focus of the block. Does that make sense? Tilwin’s point in his last post about needing to use color to differentiate between factions is put rather well.
I think Dahl definitely needs to have blue in his colors due the fact that he is an artificer, and he HAS to be white also. I think he also needs black because, although outwardly he is white, his motivations are black. Regardless of the circumstances, Dahl originally came to power by preaching unity and brotherly love. I've always pictured his slogan being "I am my brother's keeper", a religious saying that is meant in a positive way, but can easily be taken too far. I have at no time ever thought of Dahl as red. I picture him being very cold and calculated.
I consider this to be my most important statement in this post…I never intended technology to be the main focus of Ormos. I intended for oppressive law and order to serve as the focus (white gone wrong). The Brotherhood’s main way of controlling its citizens is through religious propaganda, and manipulation of history through re-education (basically brainwashing). The artifacts are just meant to be a part of The Brotherhood. They are there to help make sure people are obeying the law. I never meant for them to be too pervasive in the block. Somebody brought up the idea of having different bureaus within The Brotherhood. I like that idea. The artifacts would just be associated with one of those bureaus. The Party (the government) in 1984 was broken down into these 4 ministries (from Wikipedia):
• the Ministry of Peace deals with war and defence.
• the Ministry of Plenty deals with economic affairs (rationing and starvation).
• the Ministry of Love deals with law and order (torture and brainwashing).
• the Ministry of Truth deals with news, entertainment, education and art (propaganda).
This seems like a decent model to follow. I’m on vacation all next week. I intend to re-read both 1984, and Brave New World during that time. They are full of great ideas that we could mold into our own.
I’m very much looking forward to Lion’s blog post. His organizational skills far surpass mine.
By now it looks almost a given that each new custom block has its own new race! Extinctia has Sandbugs, we have this, and I already have another one in mind for my future set! Now, seriously, I'm all for doing this. I don't have any idea for their name at the moment though.
Also, you have a good point about the different life spans of different races. I hadn't thought of that. And yes, that implies Vampires, Angels, Demons and such may be hard to do, you were right.
Dahl being connected to Tezzeret...
I can totally see this. I can even see Tezzeret coming to Ormos because Bolas sent him there for whatever reason we don't even need to know about (who knows Bolas's plans?), what matters is that he leaves and goes back to Bolas by the end of the block. If we just want the two (Dahl and Tezzeret) to be connected it might be enough to say that they both were member of the Infinite Consortium when it still existed, as already suggested.
5 nations idea
Yes, I know that, that's why that emoticon was there! Anyway, that gave me inspiration to come up for a different split for my world I might like even more, so we're definitely free to do it here if we want.
I have no real problem leaving out some traditional MTG races as long as others don't...
Neither do I. My Tarkir example was meant exactly to show that things like that have already been done in real Magic, so we can do that too.
isolated plane...
Yes, I like this story you propose. So, are we settling down with 137 being female? I have no problem with that, just wondering. The only thing that sounds strange to me is having two planeswalkers being father and daughter. Planeswalkers are supposed to be very rare in a whole plane, let alone in the same family. Still, the random nature of the spark makes that technically possible even if very very very unlikely. And from a narrative point of view, it could be quite interesting and original.
I'm still up in the air on the color split...
Actually me too since Tilwin posted. His post made me also reevaluate that, and I think he may be right that the best way to do it is, as you say yourself:
both factions using all five colors, but centered on different colors (W- Brotherhood, R- Rebels)
Dahl being Esper colored is a must to me, given how you've been describing him since the beginning.
I never intended technology to be the main focus of Ormos. I intended for oppressive law and order to serve as the focus (white gone wrong).
It's good that you specified that, I think we all overestimated how technology is important to the Brotherhood. This part will certainly go straight to my blog post (coming very soon, possibly tonight).
Ministries
I like this idea very much, but I think in our case they should be five: one per color. And that would also confirm that the Brotherhood needs to be in all five colors, and then so do the Rebels too. They would of course need to be centered differently: white is obvious for the Brotherhood, and red feels like a good choice for the Rebels.
Our ministries absolutely need to be organized differently though, because of the following. I've added the main Magic colors of the different concepts in parenthesis. Notice they do NOT line up:
• the Ministry of Peace (W) deals with war (R) and defence (W/U).
• the Ministry of Plenty (G) deals with economic affairs (rationing and starvation) (B).
• the Ministry of Love (R) deals with law and order (W) (torture (R/B) and brainwashing(W/B? I think.)).
• the Ministry of Truth (U) deals with news (U, it's information after all), entertainment (probably R), education (U) and art (probably R) (propaganda (W)).
I like the names very much though. Might we want to keep those rearranging their competence on the lines of Magic color pie?
EDIT: In the meantime, here is the page for my blog post. Very little info is in for now, but you'll see it grow during the evening/night.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I think we just need to get Tilwin's buy in on the Rat-folk idea, then we can put that in the books.
I definitely like the connection to Tezzeret idea. I still think having Dahl turn out to be Tezzeret would be doable. We would just have to make sure that Ormos is a side story for him, and then be careful not to put anything into the block that would then conflict with a potential real storyline. I'm fine with whatever the team decides on this though. I'm fine either way (or even we want no connection whatsoever).
Tilwin and Indighost, are you guys ok with leaving out many of the iconic, traditional MTG races if need be?
I'm very much into the isolated plane idea. I also am 99% sure I want 137-F to be a female at this point. I think it adds another interesting element to the block without any negative repercussions that I can think of. The father and daughter idea was a spur of the moment idea. I was just throwing that out there to see if it excited anybody. Out of curiosity, is there any instance of planeswalker having a child? I can't think of one, but I might be forgetting something. Anyway, if there is no history of this, who's to say that the child of a planeswalker couldn't potentially inherit the spark? Lets take blue eyes for example, if someone in your bloodline has blue eyes, it makes it more likely that you will have blue eyes, but there is still a good chance you won't. Conversely, just because blue eyes doesn't run in your family doesn't mean there is zero chance you'll have blue eyes. Perhaps the spark could work the same way. This may be utter hogwash though.
I think I'm with Tilwin on the color split point. It sounds like you're coming around to it too Lion. What are your thoughts Indighost?
I brought up the technology point because Tilwin seemed to glom onto it. I'm actually fine with it if the rest of the group wants to go that way, I just wanted to make it known that it wasn't my original intention.
The ministries thing was straight from 1984, I intended for us to just use it as inspiration. If we want to set something like that up, I definitely agree that there would need to be five ministries.
BLOG POST!!!
Warning: it's updated until post #34 for now and it's very long, so take your time to read it all.
Having the majority could be enough, but I can see you preferring a unanimous decision. That's certainly better.
It may be, but even if it may I'm not sure we'd want that. Notice that with Tezzeret and your rebel planeswalker that dies while breaking the yet unnamed device we have the three for the first set. I don't see a problem with Tezzeret being UB and Dahl WUB in the same set, while the rebel planeswalker is obviously red (I'd stay away from red/white, as it's what 137 will become in the second set). We just need to stay away from blue and black for all other planeswalkers in the block. Green is not represented at all, may this rebel planeswalker be red/green? In the end, we said the Rebels are centered in Naya colors, so it's still ok as their leader. This can't be a returning planeswalker either, we certainly don't want to take one of the existing planeswalkers and kill him while they can bring it back later.
In short, I'd really like to make Dahl and Tezzeret connected (with the connection being Dahl was a member of the Infinite Consortium when it still existed) but not be the same person, and I'd introduce a red/green planeswalker to be the lead of the rebellion that dies when the device breaks.
Then the planeswalker breakdown would be like this:
First set - Dahl (WUB), Tezzeret (UB), and the RG rebel planeswalker. Tezzeret and Dahl can be differentiated making Tezzeret focused on the artificer side, and Dahl on the rule imposing "I am your god" side.
Second set - No. 137 renamed (WR) and her accompaning planeswalker (who may be anything but blue or black)
There's no need for a double large block with this breakdown. And even if we still want to make a double large block (but I'm not seeing any compelling reason for that), you know what? This breakdown is still fine anyway!
Also, for better balance, might we want the RG rebel planeswalker to be female too? Or having just one female and four males in the block is still good enough?
I talk about this (and also about the story in depth) in my blog post too, so everyone please check it out. I agree she wants to be female by now. Let's just make her what she wants to be.
Not that I know of. Maybe something from the early days of Magic, since I practically know nothing storywise before original Mirrodin?
Because the spark isn't connected to genes. It's not something you can inherit. But it is random, so it could potentially manifest in a parent/child couple, it's just very unlikely but not impossible. Let's say there is a 0.(a few zeros)1 % chance of it happening. I'm pretty sure this is how it works.
Yes, let's make both of the factions all five colors, just centered on different ones, rather than being only in separate colors.
I like it very much, I'll certainly elaborate something along those lines. I particularly like that the names are all apparently positive, while the things they care about are not so much... that's a wonderful example of propaganda.
IMPORTANT! Please read the following!
While writing the blog post, an idea hit me (more than one actually, but this one in particular). I mentioned the similarity between the plane-isolating device and the Hedron network that trapped the Eldrazi on Zendikar. What if the plane-isolating device was actually a plane-wide leyline network with its nodes being magical stones (or gears, or whatever) being placed each one INSIDE one of the main camps in Ormos? Obviously there would be guards guarding them and the prisoners are obviously unaware of the secret within their own camps. Somehow, the rebel planeswalker gets to know this and starts breaking them one by one. The last one remained is the one in Workcamp 78, the camp No. 137 lives in. The rebel planeswalker gets in the camp, kills the guards guarding the entrance door to the secret room where the stone is kept, while No. 137 sees him entering, quickly understanding he must be one of the Rebels, and as she always wanted to join the rebellion, she sees this as an opportunity to actively help them. So she follows the planeswalker throughout the camp, maybe helping him too fighting the guards. She follows him also as he enters the secret room so she's there right in the moment the planeswalker breaks the last stone. As it was the last one, that stone accumulated all the energy that was previously dispersed in the various nodes, so that energy was released in a HUGE explosion as the planeswalker broke it. This burst of energy was so strong that it both killed the rebel planeswalker, leaving the rebellion for now without a leader (position that will be conveniently covered later by No. 137 renamed as she comes back to Ormos, and she may claim it or be given it as she tells the Rebels she actually saw their previous leader die and tells them the story of how he died, which she knows because she was there), and almost killed No. 137 too at the same time, igniting her spark. Now that the leyline network is broken, planeswalkers are free to leave Ormos, so No. 137, whose spark just ignited, can leave without any problem (also notice she stayed within the camp all the time, so no need to rewrite her story), meet her "partner" who names her, and come back with him (if she's female I think we will want her "partner" to be male) to lead the rebellion in the second set. No contradictions, no rewriting needed, planeswalker breakdown perfectly satisfied, and it even gives us a key story moment with a very good visual effect if we had art (the explosion caused by the last stone being broken). It also gives us a RG stone(artifact)-breaking planeswalker, that makes a lot of sense in the color pie. I don't know what we could want more.
Please seriously consider this idea because I think it's very strong and ties it all together in a very nice way.
A breakdown of my proposal on the Brotherhood ministries will follow.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
In the blog you say that Dahl's motivations are white, but I was picturing them being black. Dahl is evil, he just knows that in this particular situation, following white based laws and magic is the best way for him to rise to power. [Edit: He didn't intervene on Ormos to save the plane, he intervened because he saw an opportunity to rule it.] He preaches love and brotherhood, but only so that his citizens ("brothers and sisters") remain docile and easy to manipulate. I see the core leaders of the brotherhood as evil, but the average member of the brotherhood actually believing they are doing the right thing. Dahl is VERY charismatic. What he has done is basically build a plane-wide cult to himself.
On indignation/indignant...I think you're correct when you say that your opponent would never target your indignant creature, but I don't think that is a problem with indignation (the version that triggers when any creature you control is targeted). If you have a creature out with indignation (let's say a 1/1 w/Indignation - ....., ~ deals 2 damage to that spell or ability's controller.), plus another creature (let's a say a 3/2 flyer that has been hammering your pre-release opponent for a few turns), your opponent will have to eliminate the 3/2 flyer or die to it. If your opponent can't draw a bigger flyer, they will have to take 2 damage to remove it, and that still leaves the indignation creature on the board. I actually really like the idea, but have no problem with it if no one else does. I just wanted to say my peace on it.
Edit: I'd love if all decisions were unanimous. In the end, I want us all to consider this "our" set. If we do come to an impasse on something, then we can go with majority rules (if it's a 2-2 tie, we'll ask for an outside opinion, Piar for instance). Also, if nobody pipes up with any objections to an idea for a few days, we should consider that as an endorsement of the idea.
I agree on all the rest. We'll probably have to just try indignation in playtest and see how it actually plays.
I've got no problem with that. Who knows Bolas's plans anyway? We don't need to explain them, we just have to say "Bolas did it, for reasons only he knows".
Thanks, it all started to form in my mind while I was putting pieces together from different posts. I saw that it all made sense together in the end, we just needed the final piece of the puzzle, and I think I just found it.
Now I'll think about ministries, and then I'll add those and the corrections to Dahl's motivation in the blog. Today I'll have spent all day on Ormos, but hey, that's what planeswalkers do! And we are planeswalkers! Also, it was badly needed. We were both going crazy from the sheer quantity of our ideas.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Another fine example of your mind reading abilities is the story you posted about Dahl's device and 137-F's spark igniting. I had the same basic idea in my head, but I hadn't thought it all the way through yet. You did an excellent job of taking the lump of clay in my head and forming it into art.
Edit: We may want to pause again for a moment to give Indighost and Tilwin some time to catch up. It's hard to do that though, the more we discuss Ormos, the more excited I get about it. I feel like we're making some good headway now!
Edit2: I'm not trying to shove indignation into the set by any means, I was just hoping to change your mind on the ability. If you still don't like it, we can just think up something else.
No problem about indignation, I'm just saying: let's test it. I want to see how it actually plays.
If Dahl is not an artificer, who made the drones, chips, and most of all the magical stone network that needs to be broken for 137's spark to ignite? Tezzeret made that all? It doesn't convince me, why would he want to do all that work? Maybe Bolas ordered him to do that? I don't know, there's something that doesn't convince me in that. What I meant is that Dahl has still a little blue in him, just as much as needed to have him build all those artifacts, but that little blue part is not represented on his card, which is more about the government aspect that is mostly W/B... Wait! Right while I'm writing this a thought came to me! Nahiri builds artifacts, she is a lithomancer (not an artificer, but close enough) and she is white! Not blue! His chips also will be Equipment for us (Implants), and white does interact a lot with Equipment. Maybe we could just say the white in him is enough to justify him building those things? Then we could actually drop blue completely from him. What do you think? Just this and the ministries, then we really get a pause!
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I changed the part about Dahl's motivations to this (the bolded part changed):
How about this version?
Also:
MINISTRIES
Names are the best I can think of, but if you have better ideas suggest them! The one I want to keep is the blue one, I just think it's perfect! I called them "Bureau" to differentiate from 1984.
W Bureau of Order: it deals with making laws, maintaining public order, managing all the camps except for Correction Camps, and propaganda.
U Bureau of Truth: it deals with information and education, constantly making sure that all the schools and the analogue of the media spread the "right" information.
B Bureau of Guilt: it deals with torture and brainwashing, using them to punish the "guilty" (where the name comes from), which actually are anyone who committed even a slight infraction, no matter how small it can be. It manages the Correction Camps, using those means at full extent to "re-educate" the prisoners.
R Bureau of Creativity: it deals with all forms of entertainment and art, making sure that also those, like the blue one, spread the "right" word. This can be a good occasion to try to show the more creative and artistic side of red.
G Bureau of Nutrition: it deals with managing the food and waste systems for camps, schools, public offices and all population really.
Ok, I'm done! *Entering pause mode*
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I'm still not picturing all magic being dampened on Ormos, just the ability for planeswalkers to come and go from the plane (I actually think it's more important for planeswalkers not to be able to come to Ormos than it is for them not to leave. Dahl doesn't want some planeswalker showing up and ruining his plans). He (and Tezzeret if needed), could just have some other device that allows them to bypass this. I'm ok going the dampened magic route if others want to, its just not how I was originally picturing things. It would certainly make some sense since it would help Dahl stay in power, and could be justified easily (under Dahl's religion, magic could be a sin, unless of course you're a god). Still, I've always assumed that Dahl kept such tight control over his citizens that he knew all magic was being used for his benefit anyway (remember, most citizens love and worship Dahl, he is god). If we did go that route, I like the network idea there also, and that there are areas the network doesn't cover. Kind of like cell phone towers, some areas have better service than others. The big problem I see with all that is, having no/very little magic on the plane is odd enough that it kind of shifts the whole focus of the block to that. Right?
Edit: Actually, as long as he fails, do we really even need to know what Dahl's (or Bolas's?) end game was?
Edit2: Yes, we are still far from making cards. I'm excited to start that process, but this all needs to be worked out first for sure. I block can't be good without a strong foundation.
Edit3: I'm still not picturing Dahl being red. I also think he is the one to invent these devices, and they are infused with magic of his doing, but I'm fine if he now has others actually making them for him. Perhaps we need a Ministry of Artifice (Industry)? That's strictly an out of thin air thought though, I'm not sure I really support it. Again, in my mind, Dahl is outwardly white (fake-white), but his motivations are black. Maybe we could drop blue, but then he is still W/B in my mind. I kind of see anger as sin in Dahl's religion, he wants his people as docile and subservient as he can keep them. Someone that is outlawing Anger can't be red in my mind.
Edit4: His mind control could be faith based, not magic based (think Preacher), but that hasn't been done in MTG for a long time. Right? It would allow us to drop the blue though, using lion's Nahiri logic to justify his being an artificer. Still, this changes the way I see Dahl's personality. In my mind, he's a blue black walker posing as white to gain power, if he ever got reprinted outside of Ormos, he would not be white. At least that's the way I've always seen it.
EDIT - So here we go:
Huge story post!
I think this all works, there may certainly be a few details to refine here and there, but I propose the following plot for the first set.
I like Bolas manipulating Dahl via Tezzeret for his own unknown purposes. I just think it's the perfect solution. Dahl is doing this to gain power for himself, Bolas who knows why, and Tezzeret because Bolas is ordering him to. Dahl and Tezzeret did know each other in the Infinite Consortium, of which Dahl was a member too, and Bolas knows that, so he sends Tezzeret to Dahl on Ormos because he knows they already know each other. For some of his machinations, he wants Ormos locked out of the Multiverse, so he sends Tezzeret to his old friend Dahl on Ormos to convince him to create a network of magical stones to act as a "shield" over Ormos (what about "Shield Network" as a name? I like it, I'll use that throughout this post), completely blocking planeswalkers from getting in AND out the plane of Ormos.
The eventual planeswalkers that happen to be on Ormos at the moment of the activation of the Shield Network are thus stuck on the plane (kind of like Ob Nixilis is stuck on Zendikar, but for different reasons), and as they're no longer able to 'walk away they appear as just powerful but ordinary mages to the eyes of Ormosian citizens (the five nations are in power at this time, and at war with each other). Dahl and Tezzeret both implant themselves with a chip (a way to get the implants into the story) that lets the two of them bypass the Shield Network, allowing only the two of them to planeswalk in and out of Ormos.
The Shield Newtork has a side effect, though. To work, it needs a lot of magical energy (one could maybe say mana?), so there is less available for Ormosian mages to use. This is the source of the "dampened magic" on Ormos. In fact, those mages notice that their power decreased, but as the Shield Network was built secretly, they don't yet understand why. This will come in handy later, so let's keep this in mind and go on.
Once the Shield Network is created and working, Tezzeret returns to Bolas, telling Dahl he will secretly (meaning out of the eyes of Ormosian citizens) come back every now and then to check that "everything is working". This is what he tells Dahl, but he actually means "that everything is working as my Dragon Master Bolas wants". Once Tezzeret leaves, Dahl, seeking power for himself (black motivation), realizes he's now the only one with active planeswalker powers throughout the plane, and sees this as the perfect opportunity to gain absolute power over the whole plane.
He comes up with a plan: create a fake religion (white means) with him as the god ("Father Dahl"), called the Brotherhood. He tells people and shows them that he can do things no one else can on Ormos (we know that not even other planeswalkers can because of the Shield Network being active) and justifies that to Ormosian citizen saying that he's a god and they should worship him as such. Eventually, after some years, between people spreading the word and him showing them multiple times his powers, enough people believe that he's actually a god and the plan comes to fruition. In the meantime, while the word is still spreading and his power growing, he creates a pseudo-church with many different oppressive laws, decrees, and such (including fake tales of what the Brotherhood is and how he rose to power, and also erasing all previous traces of planeswalkers and rewriting that part of history), presenting them as his word and thus the "word of a god". This pseudo-church is divided into the five "ministries" (we still need the right word for those and to define them exactly).
Always while the word is still spreading and his power growing, he realizes that now he just needs one more thing: a way to make sure people actually do what "his word" imposes them to. He needs a way to control them. So he does two things:
• As the magic is dampened by the Shield Network, he needs to recur to technological means. He creates (or has his "Ministry of Artifice" create) and puts to use a series of devices like chips (represented by the new Implant subtype), drones, and such.
• He needs to build structures to punish those that he calls the "guilty", meaning everyone who committed even a slight infraction, despite how little it may be. The law is useless if you don't enforce it. So he comes up with an idea to kill two birds with one stone: he needs punishing structures, and he needs to protect the Shield Network nodes (the magical stones) at the cost of his life, because it's what allowed him to be seen as a god in the first place, thus establishing his power. If the Network breaks (as we know it will), it's a disaster for him. So he thinks of building camps right in the places the stone nodes are. He builds two types of camps: the Workcamps (where prisoners are forced to work too many hours a day as a punishment for what they did) and the Correction Camps (where the most difficult prisoners are first tortured and then brainwashed again). The first infraction brings you to a Workcamp, while the second one, or another infraction while you're in a Workcamp, gets you to a Correction Camp. Obviously all camps have a lot of guards keeping things under control. Two birds with one stone: he gets to punish people thus enforcing his law AND he has guards protecting the stone nodes at the same time!
But he realized he might have a problem: if someone unfortunately understands he posed camps right on the stone nodes, they could find a way to destroy or gain control of the Shield Network. So he builds additional camps in places where the stone nodes are not, to confuse things. So not all camps have a stone node within, but all stone nodes are in a camp (either a Workcamp or Correction Camp). Only Dahl knows which camps have the stone node.
The system Dahl created and enforced is massive, but doesn't prevent a few of those mages I mentioned before (remember, those I said they would have come in handy later) from wanting to understand why their powers decreased. As magic is dampened but not completely out, they still can use what little magic is left to them to study the case, it will just take longer. They start reuniting as a little group of three, maybe four of them, and together they try to understand what's happening. After some years of study (say about 10 years from the activation of the Shield Network), they discover the Shield Network and understand that it is the cause their powers have decreased. They don't discover that the Shield Network blocks planeswalkers though, which actually is its main purpose with magic dampening as a side effect. They came to the conclusion that to have their full magical powers back they must destroy the Network. They don't know that doing so would also cause planeswalkers to be able to 'walk again. They just want their magical powers back. This is the start of the Rebellion. They begin spreading the word of what they found and that the Shield Network must be destroyed. Obviously they do so as secretly as they can to avoid being caught.
One day, some years later (about 15-20 years total since the activation of the Shield Network), one of those few mages meets a strange person. She is an almost mad-looking (not actually mad though, just the looks) young woman that loves smashing things just for the fun of smashing them. She looks very interested at what the Rebel mage (as they started to call themselves) tells her, much more interested than the average person. Her name is Freigh (pronounced as Fry in my mind), and she is one of those planeswalkers who got stuck on Ormos as the Shield Network was activated. That happened when she was still very young though (just a bit more than the age Domri Rade had when his spark ignited). She's not native to Ormos and she is a red/green character mechanically focused on artifact destruction. She understands that there could be something more, and that the Network might have to do with her inability to planeswalk anymore. She starts frequenting the Rebel mages and helping them, always secretly of course. Slowly but steadily during the following years (about 25-30 years total since the activation of the Shield Network), the Rebellion gains followers among common people too, not only mages. Even though no one has ever been officially declared the leader of the Rebellion, Freigh starts being seen as a point of reference by many of the Rebels, as she built a very good name for herself in the Rebellion and the mages didn't want to get too exposed for fear of being caught. Freigh quickly understands that destroying the Shield Network would bring to the fall of Dahl's Brotherhood, but she's fine with that. She understands that actually can help them gain followers. In fact, many who join are kept unaware of the Shield Network (to avoid exposing the mages to excessive risk of getting caught) and the Rebels start presenting themselves as more of a rebellion against the Brotherhood.
Another few decades pass (about 50-60 years total since the activation of the Shield Network). Dahl implanted specific chips in himself to extend his lifespan, so he's still alive in his full forces. Freigh started locating the stone nodes and destroying them, always as secretly as she can. She has always managed to avoid being caught so far. In the meantime, in Workcamp 78 an unfortunate event happens: a woman prisoner gets pregnant. As usual in these cases (a few other ones have happened in the past), the father is immediately sent to a Correction Camp, while the mother stays in the Workcamp until the end of her pregnancy. When the baby is born, she is sent to a Correction Camp too (a different one of course), and the baby is given a number and stays in the Workcamp, passing there all their life. This baby is a female and has been assigned the number 137-F, where the F stands for "female". She grows in Workcamp 78 while being exposed to different prisoners that come and go from the camp. Some of those prisoners tell her of the starting Rebellion against the Brotherhood, and as she always wondered how it was like to live on the outside, she becomes fascinated by those tales and starts developing a desire to possibly join the Rebellion one day.
When she's about 20 (so 70-80 years total since the activation of the Shield Network), one day in the camp she sees an aged but still agile lady entering the camp while the guards were distracted. She immediately understands she must be one of the Rebels. She thinks that may be the perfect occasion to finally be able to help the Rebellion and who knows, maybe even join them! So she starts following the lady throughout the camp without being seen by the guards until she's able to reach her. As the lady sees herself reached by a girl dressing as a prisoner, at first she feared an ambush of the guards, and went hiding behind a wall, in a repaired place. The girl follows her and when they're safe asks her: "Are you a Rebel?". She understood such a young girl in a prisoner dress couldn't possibly be a guard and asks her back: "Are you a prisoner?"
"I've been born here. I've been told of what you're doing. Let me help you. I know this place perfectly, all the corridors, the rooms, the places... this is where I've grown up after all, but I've always dreamed of a free life. I can only imagine what it's like!"
"Good girl! My name is Freigh, and yes, I am a Rebel."
"I wish I had a name to tell you, but I've just got a number..."
"Don't worry, I know how things work around here. I think I could use your help. Do you know of any room here that is kept constantly under guard, maybe called "secret room" or something like that?"
"Yes, actually I've heard some guards talk about a "forbidden room" sometimes..."
"And do you know where it is?"
"I'm not sure, as they don't normally allow us to arrive there, but I have a guess..."
"Good enough. Take me there!"
And so the two women, after having to kill some guards, reach the "forbidden room".
"So you wanted to join us, didn't you?"
"Yes!"
"Well, here's your moment. Are you ready, girl? We're about to destroy the single thing the Brotherhood cares the most about! The last stone node of the Shield Network!"
They enter the room and the stone is there, right at the center of the room. Freigh takes her sword, empowered with what little magic the Rebel mages could put in it, and hits the stone node, destroying it. It was the last one: it had within itself all the magical energy of the whole Network. That energy bursts out in a huge explosion that kills Freigh and blinds 137-F, almost killing her too. She just has the time to take Freigh's magical sword in her hand before feeling like passing out.
She finds herself somewhere unknown. This is her first planeswalk, and her spark just ignited, and there was no Shield Network anymore to keep her on Ormos, but she doesn't know all of that yet. She looks around herself and finds some people. She tries to tell them what just happened to her, but they seem to not understand. One of them proposes to bring her to one of their mages, maybe he would understand her. They bring her to her village, where she's brought to XYZ (insert male returning planeswalker here, possibly white). She explains to him what happened and he immediately understands. He tells her about the spark, the Multiverse, and introduces her to what planeswalking means. Her mind is blown away by all of this, she wanted to experience what freedom was like, but this was even more than all she could ever have hoped for! XYZ invites her to stay with him at least for a few days, as long as she needed to recover. She agrees. In those days, she tells him all about Ormos, the Brotherhood, the camps, the Rebellion, and asks him for his help. He gladly agrees. During those days, they also start feeling something for each other. One day, she tells him that she has no name except for a number. XYZ is horrified at the thought of people being just numbers and offers to give her himself a name. She loves the idea, and maybe loves him too. He names her Ziarn, which means "seed", as in both this being just the "seed" of her journey as a planeswalker, and her being hopefully the "seed" of the Rebellion on Ormos. As soon as she recovers her strength, she asks him to come with her back to Ormos and help the Rebellion. He agrees, and they both planeswalk to Ormos.
As they arrive on Ormos, Ziarn's attention is caught by a small group of Rebels talking to each other and wondering what happened to Freigh, who has disappeared since a few days ago. She walks to them and explains them what happened and that Freigh is dead and she was there. They immediately bring her in a hideout, where all the highest ranked Rebels were meeting to decide what to do after Freigh's sudden disappearance. They stop the meeting, asking them to listen to what this woman has to say. She tells everything to them too, bringing Freigh's sword, which she still had with herself, as proof. They believe her and they tell her that Freigh was actually their leader, and as she helped her and was there during the heroic (from their point of view) act that caused Freigh's death, they ask her to become the new leader of the Rebellion. She enthusiastically accepts and leads the Rebellion to victory. How that victory is exactly achieved will be the focus of the second set.
PLANESWALKER BREAKDOWN
First set:
• Father Dahl (WUB focusing on the "I bring/am the rules" side, I can't really see the red in him in the way Flatline talks about him)
• Tezzeret (UB, focusing on the artificer side)
• Freigh (RG, focusing on artifact destruction)
• 137-F, Camp Worker as a monowhite mythic rare Human Rebel legendary creature.
Second set:
• Ziarn (ex 137-F) (RW, focusing on building an army of small creatures and then pumping them, which I envision being her leading the Rebels to battle)
• XYZ (at least W, maybe mono W, as I've not yet included a monocolored planeswalker. Again, Gideon would probably fit perfectly, but we'll have to see BFZ's storyline)
Also note that this way we have two female planeswalker (of which one represented in two cards) and three male ones. It looks like an acceptable balance. It's also quite nice that except for XYZ (whoever he'll be, he must be male), all the females are on the Rebels side and all the males are on the Brotherhood side. For a government that treats women as second class citizen, this fits perfectly!
NAME NOTES
I took the liberty to name our two female characters, as I needed it to tell the story properly.
• Freigh (I imagine it pronounced like "fry" in English) comes from an alteration of the word "Freiheit" that means "freedom" in German. Freedom is what red wants, and what she wants is just the freedom to smash anything she likes whenever she likes.
• "Ziarn" is the actual word for "seed" in Polish (you can hear the pronunciation here, it's easy enough to me, and I guess to native English speakers too). At least, that's what Google Translator tells me in both cases. I used German and Polish as inspiration because the Nazi camps were there, and they are the clear inspiration for the Brotherhood camps. Even if fascism was in Italy, there were very few camps, if any, in Italy, and most of the prisoners were sent to German camps.
No, I don't think we need to know why Bolas wants Ormos locked out of the Multiverse in this version. We do know Dahl's motivation though (gaining power).
Once we have a story we all like, I'd say to work out the number breakdown and then build the design skeleton. Then we can start designing cards to fill the skeleton.
Neither do I, as I mention above.
Last time I remember was in Time Spiral (Evangelize), so yes, it was quite a while ago and in a set/block that is not the best source for precedents.
I propose to use mechanical identity to separate Dahl from Tezzeret, as I also mentioned above. That's the only problem in my opinion: the color overlap between them. That's also why I don't want any more blue or black planeswalkers in the block.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
2. Bolas did get his immortality back? I thought Alara was just a failed attempt. I'm just honestly wondering here...
Anyway, why Dahl is so attached to Ormos is a real point, and one I've been thinking about since yesterday. Possible solutions I thought of:
• Dahl is actually native to Ormos (only Ziarn in my breakdown is native to Ormos so far, we can have two, in Ravnica there are even more), so he's attached to Ormos because it's his home plane. Gaining power above all his home plane has always been his dream since his childhood. His spark somehow ignited during the war before the Brotherhood, maybe he was almost killed in battle and the threat of being killed made his spark ignite? Anyway, his spark ignites and sends him to either Esper or Fiora. Maybe Fiora is better as Esper doesn't exist anymore as a single plane after the Conflux, but Esper could be better because we could say Tezzeret was still there at that time and the two get to know there, with no need for Dahl to be a member of the Infinite Consortium anymore. Anyway, he sees the way government rules there and that gives him the idea of using similar means on his home plane of Ormos to make his lifelong dream a reality. So he comes back to Ormos and begins wondering how to do such a thing there. Then Tezzeret (who in the meantime has become an agent of Bolas) arrives, tells him Bolas wants to lock Ormos, etc...
• Dahl is still not native to Ormos and a member of the Infinite Consortium, but there may be something he badly wants on that plane. Maybe it's a powerful artifact (not the Chain Veil of course, which we can safely assume Dahl knows nothing about), or anything, and that's what brings him to Ormos. While he's there Tezzeret arrives, etc...
• Dahl is again not native to Ormos and a member of the Infinite Consortium, but in his planar travels he saw that there are indeed much more powerful beings than him. Wanting to achieve such power himself too, he saw gaining control of a whole plane as step 1. If he isn't even able to get control of just a single plane, how can he pretend to be able to achieve interplanar power? So he uses the plane of Ormos as a test for his ability to gain power on a single plane ("let's see if I'm able to do this here..."). Why Ormos? Because it just happens to be the plane where he was when he came up with that idea, so he might as well just use the plane he happens to be on for his "test".
• Dahl is native to Ormos, but he doesn't even have the spark, so the most he can do as a black character is gain control over his whole plane. This has huge implications though, both on the story and on the planeswaker breakdown. I'd really really avoid this. Also, I think that Dahl being a planeswalker is a very important part of Flatline's original idea. Am I correct, Flatline?
These are my ideas until now. The one I like the most is the first, but I'd have no big problem to go with another one. I agree this is probably the weakest point in my version of the story.
3. About the Network: I like Shield Network exactly because it sounds more technological than magical, but I can see the objection that it's quite magical as it's absorbing most of the plane's magic and it's the cause of the dampened magic on Ormos. Can "Leyline Network" be a good compromise? I think the word "Network" is necessary, both as a single noun for the whole, well, network, and because it's what it actually is in my mind: a network of leylines guided by the stone nodes.
About XYZ: No, XYZ is NOT trapped on the plane when the Network is activated. He's not there at the time, so he's actually locked OUT of Ormos then. We don't even mention him in the first set. He only enters the story at the moment the Network is broken and Ziarn's spark ignites. So if we have him in the block, it needs to be in the second set (which in my mind is everything after the Network gets broken). If we have him being trapped on Ormos and being the one who attempts to liberate Ormos, that invalidates the whole Ziarn's storyline. We have no need for a 137 anymore, whose mission is meant to be exactly that of liberating Ormos, and that has both even bigger implications than Dahl not being a planeswalker and is a fundamental change to Flatline's original vision. Again, am I correct Flatline?
About Dahl: getting killed? I've never thought he got killed at the end of the block. I just pictured him planeswalking away when the rebellion wins to escape.
About Liliana: I actually don't see any reason to involve her. She has other things (namely, her Demons) to take care of. And if she uses the Chain Veil to suppress the Network, there's no need for the Freigh storyline. It looks to me like a completely different story, not a revision of my version. I'm not saying my version is perfect, of course, I'm just saying this is a completely different thing. It may worse or even better, but it's something different and uncompatible. I'm just acknowledging that.
About Gideon and BFZ: I was actually playing with the idea that if Zendikar gets saved at the end of BFZ and Gideon doesn't planeswalk away, Ziarn's first walk could be to Zendikar. The group of people she meets there would be a group of Zendikari people and they bring her to their home village, where Gideon is, etc... But if either Zendikar gets completely destroyed at the end of BFZ and/or Gideon planeswalks away, that is not viable. And to know that we'll have to wait for BFZ. If we find a way to ignore Zendikar we won't have to wait for BFZ, but then XYZ can't be Gideon, as he's quite linked to Zendikar right now.
4. In fact the main character for the Rebellion, who is Ziarn that will lead it to victory, will be RW as a planeswalker by the time she becomes its leader. If you mean Freigh, I admit I was also looking for a way to get a green planeswalker in the block (there are no green planeswalkers otherwise). That's why I made her green (in addition to red) at first, then I realized that perfectly fits with the flavor of her being an artifact smasher. White gets to destroy artifacts too, so if we want we could make her Naya colored, but we already have Dahl (which blue or not, will be white anyway), Ziarn for sure, and XYZ if he's Gideon (and probably anyway). Do we really need FOUR white planeswalkers out of five in the block? I thought about that and my answer was "no, we don't need it, three is enough of a focus for white" (I don't think there are three planeswalkers in the same block sharing a color in real Magic, or if there are that happens rarely), and I made Freigh just RG, which by the way I think is the best color combination given her flavor. Anyway, the Rebellion is mainly Naya colors: red and white for the reasons you say, green because we can't cut it from the block and being the ally of both, it makes sense.
5. The second set focuses on the Rebellion winning, so it might make sense to have both planeswalkers in it be from that side. The alternative is having Ziarn and the fallen Dahl, as Flatline mentioned sometime ago, but in that case it would be better for XYZ to not come to Ormos at all. He serves as Ziarn's guide but when she asks to follow her to Ormos he says "no, excuse me, but I already have enough things to take care of, maybe I'll come one day in the future, but not now", which may or may not fit Gideon: he has indeed many things to take care of in both Ravnica and Zendikar, so many that he already deprives himself of sleep, but I can't really see him turning down a request for help. Or, if the block is indeed double large (and there should be a reason for it, I'm not sure the Rebellion winning is enough of a reason), than we can have three planeswalkers in the second set too, them being Ziarn (RW), XYZ (certainly W, but mono W? We lack monocolored planeswalkers), and the fallen Dahl (mono B now that his white means have failed?).
I see this differently. I see two sides (the Brotherhood and the Rebellion), with the planeswalkers stuck on Ormos being 1- not that many and anyway we only see one (Freigh), and 2- not necessarily on the Rebellion side (Freigh is but we don't see any others). I just picture most of them to either not understand what it is that is blocking them or be indifferent in the Brotherhood/Rebellion conflict. Also, I don't see them being an organized group, as both the Brotherhood and the Rebellion are.
I'd like to hear Flatline's opinion on these points. I know he has troubles with the internet where he is now, so take your time.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Edit: Also, I've been re-reading 1984, which I just finished last night. Reading that was taking up a lot of my free time, although I consider it research for the block.
What if in the first set, the brotherhood (Which, at that time, controls the plane) is centered in WUB and the upstart rebellion is centered in RG (which can help reinforce the "white gone bad" theme), and in the second set, with the victory of the rebels, they "conquer" a color (most likely black) from the brotherhood, as they are now the dominant faction and have a higher percentage of cards?
The problem, of course, is that 137 is white, and wants to be in a central color of the rebellion, but again, this is just a cool idea I thought of.
I apologize for the delayed response. As I said before, I didn’t think finding time and posting from vacation was going to be so difficult. Also, I intended to post this last night (I got back from vacay Sun morning), but then I was stung by a bee and ended up in the hospital all night (which is weord because I’ve never had a problem with bee stings before). Anyway, here’s my attempt at a response to the last few posts from lion and Tilwin. Although I’m not necessarily responding to people’s thoughts directly, hopefully this post expresses my thoughts, and answers people’s questions well enough. If not, please post them again. It was difficult for me to take in all that has been said in the last few posts, and it’s possible that I haven’t completely clarified where I would like to see things go in my post below. Overall, I agree with lion’s basic layout. Generally, if I my comments below are not addressing all that was said, it’s most likely because I agree with much of what lion has laid out in his last few threads (although I could be overlooking something). In the rest of this post, I’m mostly trying to address those things that I am seeing differently, or have changed my thoughts on.
I’m starting to wonder if having Tezzeret in the story is more trouble than it’s worth. He is somewhat redundant with Dahl, and he adds complication to the story. I’m fine if we still include him, but I’m not sure it’s necessary. How about this instead….
Dahl served in the government on his homeplane. He was caught developing some device that he planned to use to take the plane from the ruling party. He was then sentenced to death. During his execution, his spark ignites and he escapes with his life. The government of his homeplane then sends out few planeswalkers (Freigh being one of them) to find him and bring him back so that justice can be served.
After a bit of time on the run, Dahl eventually finds Ormos. Ormos is a young and fairly undeveloped plane on the outskirts of the multiverse (ie: it is a remote and somewhat inconsequential plane and therefore it is not visited by planeswalkers very much. Hopefully this concept works in Magic, I’m not posititve). The citizens of Ormos are somewhat primitive when compared to citizens from other planes, and have been locked in a planewide holy war for times untold. The sides of this holywar are divided as such:
: Clerics, who believe in a single god that is the absolute ruler of all things. (Main race: Humans)
: Atheists, who believe in no “superstitions”. They consider themselves to be scientific people, and would prefer the “religious zealots” not stand in the way of progress. (Main race: Vadelken)
: Worshipers of the underworld that believe in a religion that is basically the worship of death. They believe that only in death can one be set free, and that the body is just a vessel to be used. (Main race: Ratillions (Rat-Folk))
: The Shamans believe in a mysticism that is dependent upon personal growth through individual experience. (Main race: Viashino or Goblins)
: Druids that believe in the ultimate power of nature. (Main race: Elves?)
Each of these sects believed that their philosophy was the only correct philosophy, which caused the five sects to be at constant war. Also, although, I’m mentioning a “main race” for each sect, I think we can have sects include some members of the other races as well. The plane is divided along philosophical lines more so than racial ones.
Dahl immediately sets about exploiting the religious chaos that is the plane of Ormos. He aligns himself with the cleric faction of the war, and claims to be a messenger from their God. The clerics don’t have a hard time buying because of Dahls charisma and power (they haven’t seen a lot of planeswalkers). Also, they clearly see that the powerful Dahl may be just the advantage they need to win the war. With Dahl on their side, the clerics quickly gain an advantage over the rest of the factions on the plane, and eventually establish their own religion as the one true religion, with Dahl as its leader. Once this happens, Dahl begins to preach unity and brotherhood for all of the Ormosian citizens. In order to appease the remaining factions, Dahl appoints each its own division within the governing body. (I’m using lion’s proposal here, which may need some tweaking at some point, but is certainly a good starting point. I’ve tried to think of something better than ministry, but it is just the best thing to call them. It could just be our homage to 1984?)
W Ministry of Order: it deals with making laws, maintaining public order, managing all the camps except for Correction Camps, and propaganda.
U Ministry of Truth (or maybe artifice): it deals with information and education, constantly making sure that all the schools and the analogue of the media spread the "right" information.
B Ministry of Guilt: it deals with torture and brainwashing, using them to punish the "guilty" (where the name comes from), which actually are anyone who committed even a slight infraction, no matter how small it can be. It manages the Correction Camps, using those means at full extent to "re-educate" the prisoners.
R Ministry of Creativity: it deals with all forms of entertainment and art, making sure that also those, like the blue one, spread the "right" word. This can be a good occasion to try to show the more creative and artistic side of red. (I’m almost wondering if this could be the Ministry of Industry, and Dahl has them slaving away on his drones and whatnot. If the main race of red is Goblins or Viashino, I have a hard time seeing them in art and entertainment.)
G Ministry of Agriculture: it deals with managing the food and waste systems for camps, schools, public offices and all population really.
After Dahl after Dahl is firmly entrenched as the ruler of Ormos, he quickly puts the Ministry of Truth to work rewriting history and “teaching” (brainwashing) the population the orthodoxy of the newfound Brotherhood. While doing so, he eventually transforms himself from a disciple of God, to God himself. He also begins work on a network of devices that would isolate Ormos from the rest of the multiverse, thus allowing no other planeswalker to enter or leave the plane. This traps Freigh, who had finally tracked Dahl to Ormos (say after 10 or so years). Realizing she can’t defeat Dahl herself (he now has the entire plane under his command), she sets about recruiting help. This is the beginning of the rebellion, which begins quite slowly at first due to Dahl’s complete influence over the minds of the Ormosians. Meanwhile, Freigh is finding and destroying the isolation network. She is caught, while attempting to destroy the last one, and is sent to a deathcamp (probably need to rename this, deathcamp brings up a touchy image, also the Brotherhood would give them a positive sounding name. It’s possible that death sentences could just be carried out in the correction camps).
In the meantime, 137-F attempts to escape her workcamp and is caught. This lands her in the same deathcamp as Freigh. In this deathcamp, they then meet, become friends and eventually escape. Together they again attempt to destroy the final stone in the network. This time successfully. Destroying the final stone sets off an explosion that kills Friegh and ignites 137-F’s spark, causing her to planeswalk away from Ormos. This is the end of the first set. The first set starts with the Brotherhood already firmly entrenched, the Isolation Network already in place, and the rebellion starting to enter its middle stages.
This would bring us back to only two planeswalkers in the first set (Dahl , and Friegh ), but I still feel like the block needs to be large-large (since the rebellion doesn’t get going in earnest until the second set), which would allow us to have 3 planeswalkers in the 2nd set (137-F, Gideon?, and whoever (with the isolation network destroyed, anyone can show up.) Notice that I am not including anything about dampened magic in my story. I think we have enough things going on in this block already that we don’t need to add a weakened-magic theme. I am still willing to go forward with one, but we’d have to think of some way to represent it that doesn’t step on Zendikar’s toes (I know the ideas aren’t exactly alike, but they seem somewhat similar to me). We are already trying to fit in white as the main antagonist, rebels, oppressive government/religion, and a minor artifact theme, I’m not sure there’s room for something as big as magic-dampening as well. I could be wrong.
Again, I’m not going to into more detail in my story because I agree with many of the details of lion’s story, I just wanted to touch on the things I am seeing a little differently. To recap:
- There is no dampened magic, and the set is not technology focused. The artifacts in the set are similar to artifacts we’ve seen in past magic sets, and are magic based.
- No Tezzeret. The block is large-large, and planeswalkers are dispersed: 2-3. Although, we could still include Tezzeret if others want, which would flip the planewalker distribution (but I still think the block needs to be large-large, and I think Tezzeret complicates things unnecessarily. Without him, we just need to know Dahl’s motivation, which is basically just power. The reason he chooses Ormos is because he belives it to be the best place to hide from the planeswalkers seeking him).
- Freigh doesn’t break into the camp, she and 137-F breakout. (BTW, maybe pronounced Fray?)
- Dahl doesn’t create a fake religion, he takes over an already existing one, then writes himself into it as the god of it over time.
- Instead of five nations, the plane is split into five philosophy based sects. These sects end up being transformed into the various Ministries that have been setup by the Brotherhood, although any adherence to their old teachings is strictly forbidden as blasphemy. The Brotherhood also makes it difficult to adhere to the old ways by erasing all history of them from media and textbooks.
- I definitely see this block as Brotherhood vs Rebels. The rest of the story is just there to help set up the block. If we end up liking Dahl enough at the end of this block, perhaps we could revisit his backstory in a different prequel type block later.
-I'm not sure that the Brotherhood really needs to be in power for quite as long as I was originally thinking to change the way people remember history. In 1984, the Party does it in something like 45 years. BTW, if anybody wants to read that it would be awesome! It would go along way towards helping me to explain what I'm thinking (same with A Handmaid's Tale). I just re-read 1984 while on vacation and it only took me 2 days, so it's not a long read (although I am a rather fast reader). BTW, A Handmaid's Tale is also a pretty fast read.
One last note of importance…. Although Dahl has built a system of strict laws, surveillance and punishment, he still mostly controls his people through religion and re-education. When someone is caught doing wrong on Ormos, most of the citizens think this person should be punished. This often includes the person being punished. A couple themes that are common to both 1984 and A Handmaid’s Tale (as well as numerous other dystopian novels) are paranoia and distrust. People are generally afraid to express their feelings of discontent because they are never sure if the person they are talking to will blow them in for what they are saying, whether the person is a Brotherhood agent, or just an average citizen. It takes a long time to trust anybody on Ormos under the Dahl regime, even your own family might turn you in to the authorities in order to “save” you. In 1984, children are encouraged to join a group called the Spies, and are rewarded for turning in their own parents for infractions as minor as speaking out against the Party in their sleep (the Party is akin to our Brotherhood, in 1984 the Brotherhood is actually a fictitious group of rebels that have been created by the Party in order to help ferret out thoughtcriminals).
Edit: Perhaps it may be better to address some of the more complicated issues we're facing individually for a bit instead of posting these long posts that try to cover everything?
Edit2:
Artifact (R)
Planeswalkers your opponents control lose all types and abilities, and become creatures with base power and toughness each equal to their converted mana cost.
, : Put a loyalty counter on target planeswalker you control
Edit3: As far as faking a color is concerned, that is my fault, I've been suggesting that Dahl is fake-white. Is that not something that's possible? What I mean is, Dahl was (and still is philosophically) B/U, he has only recently adopted white because he realizes it would be the easiest way to advance his agenda on Ormos. In his mind, he is not white. Does that make sense? BTW, this is also one of the reasons I always pictured Dahl as blue (as well as the fact that he's is an artificer in my mind), because it is generally the color that copies other people's ideas.
A few small notes:
• In my mind Freigh is pronounced like "Fry" because I took it from German and one of the very few pronunciation rules I know of it is that "ei" is pronounced like the "y" in "Fry", which would be "ai" in Italian. Anyway, this is a very minor point and doesn't cause any real trouble. Think of how people differently pronounce "Garruk" for example. I'd say let everyone pronounce it as they naturally do and don't worry about it.
• So, a few (hopefully) final names: Isolation Network, the Ministries, Freigh, Ratillions.
• About the Ministries: I'm ok with keeping the word if everyone else is too. Also, I love the red Ministry of Industry idea and I think it fits much better in our world. I'd say let's implement it immediately.
• I still don't have a clear understanding of why this block is double large, but I'll just accept it and move on.
• With accepting the block as double large, the 2/3 planeswalker split is definitely fine.
• I think our last planeswalker in the second set should also be a returning one, we are short there as we only have Gideon hypothetically (let's see what happens in BFZ first). I don't know who that could be though. I'd like it to be one of the "minor" ones like Tamiyo and such, because I really feel they deserve more time in the spotlight and they are easier to implement as they have less "real" backstory.
• I really feel the deathcamps should just be Correction Camps and death sentences are just executed in Correction Camps. They are still a form of punishment after all. It saves us the need for a new word and it's still very coherent: the Correction Camps execute all forms of punishment and reeducation.
• Is there still room for the chips/implants as means of control for Dahl to use? I don't have that very clear, and it heavily impacts our design with the related Implant artifact subtype. I hope so because I really liked the idea.
• The single devices in the Isolation Network are NOT placed in Camps anymore and we don't actually care where they are located except for the last one. Is this correct?
"Leo's story ver. 2.0" including the best from both versions will follow later.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Some quick questions for clarity's sake...
So your ok with leaving Tezzeret out? As I said, at this point, I think he's an unnecessary complication.
Are you also ok with Dahl taking over an already existing religion, then slowly making himself the God of it, as opposed to him making his own religion that he is already the God of? I definitely think him taking over an already existing religion is the way to go.
So you like the five philosophies idea over the five nations one? This would allow you to use the five nations one as you intended in a later block.