I think maybe B/G should maybe just be native creature ramp. ... B/R I could see being something like a burn/punishment archetype perhaps. As far as W/G is concerned, ... Rebel tribal? ... rebels you control get +1/+1, rebels you control have trample, etc. Does that make any sense at all?
Ok on BG.
BR: It's hard to make a pure burn archetype in limited. Maybe something like aggro/burn, using burn as finisher.
GW: It could make sense, have RG focused more on taking advantage of embolden with abilities like "if the embolden cost was paid" like that card Indighost designed not too long ago, and GW with those effects you mentioned. It can work.
Do we all agree on BG ramp, BR aggro/burn, and GW Rebel tribal?
I wouldn't like to split archetypes among us to design, I'd rather say let's all keep in mind draft archetypes when we design cards. For example, if I'm designing a white card, it should fit naturally in at least one white archetype, better multiple ones.
It's not like people can't mix cards from different archetypes together for limited, so it probably doesn't matter how many archetypes are geared towards each faction.
In fact this is what I think. Archetypes are just meant to be a guideline.
To answer one of lion's earlier questions....I have no problem leaving the name embolden in place. I still like it. But as I said before, I also have no problem changing it if others don't like the name.
I feel exactly the same. Others?
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I like those archetypes, but how exactly are we going to do black ramp? Black rituals aren't a thing anymore, and any color can search for it's corresponding basic land, so that is not something that is unique to black. an example of black ramp woul be Liliana's Shade, but then again, we have Knight of the White Orchid and landcycling.
I like those archetypes, but how exactly are we going to do black ramp? Black rituals aren't a thing anymore, and any color can search for it's corresponding basic land, so that is not something that is unique to black. an example of black ramp woul be Liliana's Shade, but then again, we have Knight of the White Orchid and landcycling.
Doesn't Black also get the ability to tap Swamps for more B, including cards like Crypt Ghast? Stuff like that could help and there's no problem with it also having some stuff not exclusively black. You could also have some B/G ramp cards (Something that ramps B and G mana when you do damage/kill stuff? Like...
Return to Soil 2BG
Sorcery (U)
Destroy target tapped creature. Add B and [/mana]G[/mana] in any combination to your mana pool equal to the destroyed creature's power.
Card not balanced or thought out but it tries to give a general idea.)
I like those archetypes, but how exactly are we going to do black ramp? Black rituals aren't a thing anymore, and any color can search for it's corresponding basic land, so that is not something that is unique to black. an example of black ramp woul be Liliana's Shade, but then again, we have Knight of the White Orchid and landcycling.
While colors are allowed to search for their own basic lands, black and green care the most about their respective basic lands. In addition to cards like Crypt Ghast mentioned above, earching gatherer for "each <land type> you control" yields far more results for BG than any other color pair. In particular, black and green are the colors that have creatures with abilities that set their stats to the number of their particular lands you control (Dungrove Elder, Kalonian Twingrove, Nightmare, Squelching Leeches).
Also, the original reason I suggested BG ramp is because of black's top end; black, to me, has cool options for excess mana at uncommon in the form of its X spells. Things like Consume Spirit, Exsanguinate, and Postmortem Lunge (and at rare, Mind Shatter and X-costed wraths like Black Sun's Zenith), combined with green's large creatures at the top of the curve, give a ramp player options for how to end a game after he's gotten to absurd amounts of mana.
I think black can make its part in a ramp archetype. It can search for Swamps, make them make additional mana, remove opposing creature while you ramp, providing itself ramp targets... I don't see many problems making it work.
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Sorry I haven't been as active over the last few days. I've had a lot going on. Anyway, the first thing that popped into my head when I thought about black ramp was , and mana sink type spells like that, as -5 below suggested. Also, as others have stated, black likes to care about Swamps quite often. If people aren't into the ramp thing, we could still do the Zombie making thing. If we did go with the Zombie thing, I'm wondering if we should come up with a different creature than Ainok for the second green race. I can't picture Ainok (or Elves for that matter) creating or caring about Zombies. A while back (lion I think you'll remember this), Groovelord posted a card with the creature type "Gnort", with an ability called "compost", in an MCC challenge. I'm not positive I know exactly how Groovelord saw these Gnorts (he only made one card for the challenge), but I saw a very vivid image of a small earthen creature with moss and warts and all. They aren't really evil, nor are they good, they just are what they are. They are B/G creatures that use decomposition to feed new life. They are farmers and are very reclusive. I picture them living in holes in the ground. Anyway, I mention this because I'm wondering if they (or something like them if Groovelord doesn't want us stealing his idea) could fit into the block to replace Ainok. To be honest, I think it seems kind of awkward to have Ainok if we are also going to have regular run of the mill hounds as well. I know it happened in Innistrad with wolves/werewolves, but I like it much less here. I'm still fine with including them, but I just wanted to put this whole idea out there, feel free to disregard it off hand if you like.
A few thoughts/questions....
What do we call the police on Ormos? In 1984 they were called the Thought Police. I feel we need something to reference on cards for this sort of thing.
I'm trying to talk a friend of mine into making some (non-card) art for our set, both how the block name is written, as well as the set symbol. Does anybody have any ideas for these?
Is everybody aware of/on-board with the idea that the Brotherhood basically believes in male Human superiority? As I said a while back, Dahl "loves" all of his subjects (creations?, disciples?), but only some of them were made in is image.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
If people aren't into the ramp thing, we could still do the Zombie making thing.
I personally like ramp much more than Zombies in BG, but who knows about others? I'd say let's try to change the question: does anybody else have something against adopting ramp for BG? If we don't hear anything in short time, we make it official.
A while back (lion I think you'll remember this), Groovelord posted a card with the creature type "Gnort", with an ability called "compost", in an MCC challenge.
I have very vague memories about this. I think I remember seeing an ability called compost, but I'd lie if I said I remember what it did. We'd have to check in case, but if we go with BG ramp (as I hope) we won't need this.
I think it seems kind of awkward to have Ainok if we are also going to have regular run of the mill hounds as well.
If you're referring to my Chip-Detecting Dog, it was just an example. It can be turned into an Ainok very easily. I'd really like the Ainok to have the role of chip-hunters in the Rebellion. I don't know why, but I see them perfectly in that role.
What do we call the police on Ormos?
I never thought about this. All I know for now is that it needs to be a positive-sounding name that hides a negative thing, according to the universal naming system of the Brotherhood.
I'm trying to talk a friend of mine into making some (non-card) art for our set, both how the block name is written, as well as the set symbol. Does anybody have any ideas for these?
Very good! One thing to think about: which word do we want the logo to be centered on? Usually it's the name of the plane, so it would be something like "Brotherhood of" written in relatively small characters and "Ormos" that takes the focus of the logo (see "Battle for / Zendikar", "Scars of / Mirrodin", "Shards of / Alara"), but maybe in our case the word "Brotherhood" is actually more important.
Is everybody aware of/on-board with the idea that the Brotherhood basically believes in male Human superiority?
I am, and anyway two women bringing the Rebellion to victory will balance that.
Have we settled on a B/R archetype?
Unfortunately, not yet. And that brings me back to my original point.
Let's come to a point. I'd say to give some time (hopefully not more than a few days) for everyone to recheck everything and possibly answer to the question:
Does anybody on the team have anything against any of the following? If you have concerns, please bring them up now!
• Story (as written in my blog post)
• Map / Worldbuilding (as written in my blog post)
• Adopting ramp as the BG limited archetype.
• Adopting punishment/burn as the BR limited archetype as explained by Flatline in his last posts.
• Adopting traditional Rebel tribal as the GW limited archetype (as opposed to RG which is based on embolden).
• Adopting embolden as the official name for the prowl-variant mechanic.
• Adopting legged Merfolk as the missing blue race.
• Not having Vampires on Ormos.
• Adopting the color/race split Flatline proposed in post #155 on this page, with each color having one race only in that color and the other one shared with one of its ally colors.
• Adopting the name "Ministries", dividing them as written in my blog post, and calling the black one "of Guilt" and the green one "of Agriculture".
• Adopting the three mechanics per color split I proposed.
I think these are all the things we still have hanging. I'd really like to close all these questions before moving any further. I'd adopt a principle of silent consent: if we don't hear anything in a reasonable time, we assume that all of the above is good and move on to... the cards! Finally!
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Just for the record, I'm fine with everything you have listed above. Thanks for the post lion, you're much better at moving things forward than I am. I can talk endlessly about things in case people haven't noticed. On that note, please disregard the Gnort idea, it was just something I was thinking about today in the car. I haven't had much time the last few days to really stop and think about things, but I think I'm pretty set on were we are. I do think we should think of a few things like the name of Dahl's police, but other than that, I think I'm good.
Edit: Is coming up with the cycles we want in the set come prior to actual card making? I would assume so.
Edit2: At the very least, we know we want a rare land cycle (I'm good with Tilwin's sorcery lands, although I'm wondering if Tilwin's original design might actually be the way to go here. I guess we'll see during playtest). I also think we need to make a cycle of mythic (could be rare) creatures to represent the head of each of Dahl's Ministries.
Edit3: Flavor note: I think there should be no Shaman or Druid creatures in the Brotherhood. These are both considered to be heretical philosophies, and are strictly outlawed on Ormos. There can be Rebel flavored cards with these types of course.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Thanks for the post lion, you're much better at moving things forward than I am.
I hope that post doesn't sound harsh, it's not meant to be. I'm just getting tired of waiting for things to move on, and I feel we're ready for the next step.
I think we'll want to have an idea of what we want the major cycles to be, others will come naturally. I agree with rare lands (already added in the skeleton if you noticed) and the Heads of Ministries. Ok on the flavor note. I revised the uncommon skeleton because I forgot the draft gold cycle, and we'll have to think if we also want a few gold cards in other rarities and how many. But first let's close all those open questions, let's not add further ones for now.
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Story: I like the story. I think it is a good basis for the set right now.
World: This looks great! I would like having some cards at rare (maybe the green-aligned dual lands) that represent remote places that were almost untouched by the brotherhood.
BG ramp: I have no problem with that. I also think that black's top end in this set can be particularly big to have some finishers for WB.
RB punish/burn: Most (if not all) punishment effects do not fit in common. Burn is possible, but I don't see the punishment thing as being really archetype defining.
GW rebels: Love it! Rebels are one of my favorite tribes though, so i'm a little biased here.
Embolden: No problem. I don't love the name, but I don't think that the other suggested names would be better.
Merfolk: Merfolk in magic have been legged since Zendikar (Cosi's Trickster) and there were some legged merfolk earlier (Saprazzan Bailiff). I Don't see any problem.
Vampires: Yeah, they don't really fir Ormos.
Color/Race split: Sounds good. Maybe, if we still have trouble fitting some races in, we can use classes instead for some slots.
Ministries: I have no problem with the name.
3 mechanics per color: Perfect!
This all sounds really awesome and I can't wait to start design!
Merfolk: Merfolk in magic have been legged since Zendikar (Cosi's Trickster) and there were some legged merfolk earlier (Saprazzan Bailiff). I Don't see any problem.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I believe scrad is correct, Merfolk have been amphibious since Zendikar. As I've said many times, I'm not super pleased with using Merfolk on Ormos, but at this point, I think it is needed, and not a problem really.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
So I finally got a chance to take a look at the skeleton as it is now. It looks very good for the most part, but I have a few comments.....
I think we have a few too many implants. I think I might cut back 2 commons, 2 uncommons, and at least 1 rare. I would like to have a few normal equipment (for the Rebels), as well as some noncreature surveillance type devices. Dahl creates more than just Drones and implants, but if we use up all the artifact slots, we won't be able to see them.
I think if we are going B/G ramp, we need at least 1 large black creature at common if possible.
I'm wondering if we could get away with a few more multi-color cards. This might just be because I like them so much though. I'm not sure how to work them into the skeleton though. Perhaps we could do a cycle at each rarity other than mythic? What are people's thoughts?
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(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I had much less in the beginning, but then I increased the number of them after a comment by Tilwin saying they might have been too few to matter. Also, Drone in that contest just means "non-Implant ordinary artifact, possibly creature, affiliated with the Brotherhood".
I think if we are going B/G ramp, we need at least 1 large black creature at common if possible.
Agreed, I didn't think of that. I'll add it.
I'm wondering if we could get away with a few more multi-color cards. This might just be because I like them so much though. I'm not sure how to work them into the skeleton though. Perhaps we could do a cycle at each rarity other than mythic? What are people's thoughts?
I expected this request! Uncommon is already taken care of with the draft guide cycle across all ten color pairs and I wouldn't add more. A few could probably fit at rare. Then it depends on what we want the as-fan of gold to be (that is how many gold cards you will open in one booster pack on average for those that might not know what as-fan means). If we want them at common too, do we want a whole cycle of ten or we do only the pairs within the main colors of the factions (that is only WU, UB, WB for the Brotherhood and RG, GW, RW for the Rebels)?
EDIT: modified the skeleton keeping into account the feedback. Added a gold ten-card cycle at common, a five-card one at rare (we'll decide if allied, enemy or some other split), generic Brotherhood-affiliated artifacts, Rebel equipment, and the mythic skeleton. I count 137-F as extra in white, that's why it has one more mythic. In real sets too, mythics are rarely perfectly balanced through the colors.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I'd like to hear others thoughts on the amount of multi-colored cards in the set. I want to make sure we're not just doing this because I like multi-colored cards. The rest of the changes look good to me, thanks lion. Does anybody else have any other thoughts on the skeleton?
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(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
It still just takes a minute to change back if needed and I personally don't mind more gold cards.
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
What are we still missing before we make cards? The only thing I can think of is the B/R archetype, which I'm not sure has been fully settled yet. Am I missing anything? I still think someone should come up with a name for the police/enforcers on Ormos. I'm stumped right now for some reason. As lion said, it should be something positive sounding. Or do we not need it because we can just refer to the Brotherhood on cards that need such references? Unless I'm missing something big, I think we should try to start making cards this weekend. Is that possible?
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(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
But I wonder if we shouldn't actually split the block into two nice sets, each containing a small multicolored theme.
I was having a similar idea, though I didn't have it fleshed out as you do.
Again, I don't mean we should make this Ravnica
That's the most important thing. For us gold should just be a subtheme, not the main theme around which the whole set revolves. Each of the two sets should still support the pairs it doesn't include, just less. If you want to draft a Rebel color pair in the Brotherhood set, you should still be able to do it, you just won't have that many gold cards.
First set: WUUBWBURGB
Second set: RGGWWRBRUG
I agree with this split even for the extra color pairs. UR has to be in the Brotherhood set because it's associated to the Ministry of Industry and the artifacts Dahl makes. The last pair then has to contain green which is not yet represented in the first set, so it must be either BG or GU. It has to be BG otherwise blue is not represented in the second set. There are no alternatives if we want all colors to be represented in both sets, even if not equally (as you correctly said, that's impossible).
So what impact could have this? Of course the multicolored cards we develop, respectively the lands we reveal in the respective set.
Ok, I like to avoid the classic allied/enemy split.
I think we could make an exception for Freigh...
We just have to.
Tamiyo would fit greatly in the second set too (she offers more support for the Brotherhood WUB colors).
Good.
For symmetry however, could we make Ziarn Nayan-colored? (RGW)
Unfortunately, there isn't much green philosophically in her character. She's pretty much pure Boros.
Or are we okay with him and Freigh going hand in hand in Nayan decks?
Yes, I'm convinced this is the correct approach.
Btw Leo, that spreadsheet is a bit difficult to follow. Could we please have a short scheme describing per rarity how many cards we intend to have in each color/multicolor/colorless/lands? It would help a LOT to be able to see all this info synthesized in one page instead of having to move through multiple tabs. Thanks!
You'll see how important and useful the spreadsheet will be quite soon, but I understand this need. Short scheme coming later tonight.
What are we still missing before we make cards? The only thing I can think of is the B/R archetype, which I'm not sure has been fully settled yet. Am I missing anything?
I think I'll just categorize it generically as aggro/burn for now. I'll make a point of where we are later tonight and I also think I'll update the blog.
I still think someone should come up with a name for the police/enforcers on Ormos. I'm stumped right now for some reason.
Me too.
I think we should try to start making cards this weekend. Is that possible?
Yes, I think that's possible. Let me make that point I just talked about and I'll tell you.
EDIT: Blog updated making official all the bold points from a post of mine from a couple days ago. If you're on the team and you have any doubt about something written on the blog page, speak now! I'm waiting for Flatline's opinion to incorporate Tilwin's proposal about the split of color pairs too.
RARITY BREAKDOWN (as of now)
COMMON
As of now, each color has 15 cards, but it may need to be cut to 14 or 13 if we want to have even more gold cards in the spirit of Tilwin's proposal.
• W: 10 total creatures, of which 6 small, 1 small or medium, 3 medium. 1 token-making instant or sorcery. Other 4 noncreatures.
• U: 6 total creatures, of which 4 small, 1 medium, 1 large. Other 9 noncreatures.
• B: 8 total creatures, of which 3 small, 1 small or medium, 3 medium, 1 large (for BG ramp). Other 7 noncreatures.
• R: 7 total creatures, of which 4 small, 3 medium. Other 8 noncreatures.
• G: 9 total creatures, of which 3 small, 1 small or medium, 3 medium, 2 large. Other 6 noncreatures.
• Gold: 10 cards, for now a cycle throughout all color pairs. I'd say about half of these should be creatures.
• Artifacts: 15 cards, of which 3 artifact creatures (Drones?), 5 Implants, 2 classic non-Implant Equipment for Rebels, 3 non-Equipment generic Brotherhood-affiliated artifacts, 2 non-Equipment generic artifacts that can be Brotherhood-affiliated but don't have to be.
• Lands: 1 Evolving Wilds-like land.
• Total: 101 commons, of which 48 creatures.
UNCOMMON
As of now, each color has 12 cards, but it may need to be cut to 11 or 10 if we want to have even more gold cards in the spirit of Tilwin's proposal.
• W: 7 creatures, 5 noncreatures.
• U: 5 creatures, 7 noncreatures.
• B: 6 creatures, 6 noncreatures.
• R: 6 creatures, 6 noncreatures.
• G: 7 creatures, 5 noncreatures.
• Gold: 10 cards, that must be the draft cycle meant to give indications to less experienced drafters. The cycle must go throughout all ten color pairs. I'd say about half of these should be creatures.
• Artifacts: 10 cards, of which 3 artifact creatures (Drones?), 3 Implants, 1 classic non-Implant Equipment for Rebels, 3 non-Equipment generic artifacts that can be Brotherhood-affiliated but don't have to be.
• Lands: 0.
• Total: 80 uncommons, of which 39 creatures.
RARE
As of now, each color has 7 cards, but it may need to be cut to 6 or 5 if we want to have even more gold cards in the spirit of Tilwin's proposal.
• W: 5 creatures, 2 noncreatures.
• U: 3 creatures, 4 noncreatures.
• B: 4 creatures, 3 noncreatures.
• R: 4 creatures, 3 noncreatures.
• G: 5 creatures, 2 noncreatures.
• Gold: 5 cards, that I expect to be a cycle. I'd say at least 2 of these should be creatures.
• Artifacts: 8 cards, of which 2 artifact creatures (Drones?), 2 Implants, 1 classic non-Implant Equipment for Rebels, 3 non-Equipment generic artifacts that can be Brotherhood-affiliated but don't have to be.
• Lands: 5 (the rare "Sorcery Lands" cycle).
• Total: 53 rares, of which 25 creatures.
MYTHIC
• W: 2 creatures (of which one is 137-F and the other is the white Ministry Head), 1 noncreature.
• U, B, R, G: 1 creature (Ministry Head), 1 noncreature each.
• Gold: 3 cards. One is Dahl, one is Freigh, and 1 creature.
• Artifacts: 1 (the Isolation Network).
• Lands: 0.
• Total: 15 mythics, of which 7 creatures and 2 planeswalkers.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I don't have time for a full response right now, but at first glance I really like Tilwin's plan. I also agree that we can't go crazy with the multi-colored cards, we don't want to look like Ravnica or anything. Also, it would be hard to have too much multi-colored since we also have more than the normal amount of artifacts in the set. I'll post again tonight at some point.
I think we need one slot for a mythic rare artifact to represent the Isolation Network. Right?
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I don't have time for a full response right now, but at first glance I really like Tilwin's plan. I also agree that we can't go crazy with the multi-colored cards, we don't want to look like Ravnica or anything. Also, it would be hard to have too much multi-colored since we also have more than the normal amount of artifacts in the set. I'll post again tonight at some point.
Ok, that's what I wanted to know for now. It looks like everyone likes it! Well done Tilwin! I'll put it into the blog asap.
I think we need one slot for a mythic rare artifact to represent the Isolation Network. Right?
Right, I forgot about it. Make it 3 gold mythics (of which the two planeswalkers) and that artifact then!
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Hey, I've really enjoyed reading how this set has been coming along. I've read everything since the first page up until page 6 (about a week ago if you've lost track), and it's been fun to see the changes (especially as I felt myself anticipating changes that you were all agreeing on).
I'm really glad to see that someone is designing a set based on 1984. I remember reading it in High School. We had a long term substitute teacher at the time, and afterwards we watched the European movie based off of it. Someone in the class complained to the administration because of all the sex in the movie, and then the sub got fired and could never work at that school again. Talk about self referential. Anyways, good to see a set based off of this. I think V is for Vendetta gets at similar ideas (and also has a female protagonist, which could be good).
I did want to comment on one thing that I've noticed. Tilwin made a comment that all of the Brotherhood mechanics targeted opposing creatures. I think most agreed with this, but I don't think that this is a good thing. Why have three mechanics doing what could be done with just one? Furthermore, I don't think it really gets at all of what the Brotherhood is about. Yes, they are oppressive, but they are also secretive and rely on all of society to keep each other in line. There is a certain subtlety to that which these sorts of mechanics do not really get at.
Specifically, I remember being a little nonplussed when I first read the brainwash mechanic, because it was affecting power and toughness, neither of which have anything to do with how the game generally thinks of "brains." Typically, it seems, mind related things in Magic have to do with your hand or graveyard. And the implants seem to already be geared towards affecting creature abilities. What if instead of affecting creatures, brainwash was something that affected libraries? Maybe like scrying your opponents library.
ie- Brainwash (you may look at the top card of your opponents library and then either put it on the top or the bottom of their library)
I think this gets at the weariness of fascism that isn't as evident as things that affect power and toughness. Maybe it's not the brainwash mechanic specifically that should be changed, but one of those three replaced with something that affects the opponents hand or library instead of their creatures. Maybe it's too late to make this sort of change at this point, but if you notice that these three mechanics are somewhat redundant when you get to playtesting, it might be worth considering replacing one of them with something like this instead.
Either way, I'm having lots of fun following this design (and hopefully these comments are still relevant even though I'm a week behind on reading up on it).
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War of the Eldrazi
looking for feedback, card names, and card proposals for a handful or rare and mythic slots.
Comment is good but I do want to say that "Scry opponent's library" has been made before: It's Fateseal from Time Spiral block and considered a large failure due to being extremely un-fun.
EDIT: They have said it could show off, for example, as one-off cards non-keyworded. Would fit the flavor well on a one-off card.
I still think someone should come up with a name for the police/enforcers on Ormos. I'm stumped right now for some reason.
Is this where outsiders to the project can make suggestions?
If I'm getting the flavor of your setting right, then the Brotherhood is similar, in concept, to Big Brother mixed in with religion. If that's the case, you want your name for the "police force" (more like local inquisition) to either:
Evoke family themes, to go with the "Brother"hood: The Brothers, The Sisters, The Parents, The Elders, The Cousins, ...
Use an innocuous name, because the more innocent a name is, the stronger the dissonance in a dystopia: Neighborhood Watch, Association Against Evil, ...
Just use Dahl's name and some sort of descriptor, because it's simple but it works: Dahl's Fists, Dahl's Eyes, Dahl's Enforcers, Children of Dahl... If Dahl has some sort of well-known nickname (He is a "god", which likely means he has nicknames), use and substitute that instead.
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Ok on BG.
BR: It's hard to make a pure burn archetype in limited. Maybe something like aggro/burn, using burn as finisher.
GW: It could make sense, have RG focused more on taking advantage of embolden with abilities like "if the embolden cost was paid" like that card Indighost designed not too long ago, and GW with those effects you mentioned. It can work.
Do we all agree on BG ramp, BR aggro/burn, and GW Rebel tribal?
I wouldn't like to split archetypes among us to design, I'd rather say let's all keep in mind draft archetypes when we design cards. For example, if I'm designing a white card, it should fit naturally in at least one white archetype, better multiple ones.
In fact this is what I think. Archetypes are just meant to be a guideline.
I feel exactly the same. Others?
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Doesn't Black also get the ability to tap Swamps for more B, including cards like Crypt Ghast? Stuff like that could help and there's no problem with it also having some stuff not exclusively black. You could also have some B/G ramp cards (Something that ramps B and G mana when you do damage/kill stuff? Like...
Return to Soil 2BG
Sorcery (U)
Destroy target tapped creature. Add B and [/mana]G[/mana] in any combination to your mana pool equal to the destroyed creature's power.
Card not balanced or thought out but it tries to give a general idea.)
While colors are allowed to search for their own basic lands, black and green care the most about their respective basic lands. In addition to cards like Crypt Ghast mentioned above, earching gatherer for "each <land type> you control" yields far more results for BG than any other color pair. In particular, black and green are the colors that have creatures with abilities that set their stats to the number of their particular lands you control (Dungrove Elder, Kalonian Twingrove, Nightmare, Squelching Leeches).
Also, the original reason I suggested BG ramp is because of black's top end; black, to me, has cool options for excess mana at uncommon in the form of its X spells. Things like Consume Spirit, Exsanguinate, and Postmortem Lunge (and at rare, Mind Shatter and X-costed wraths like Black Sun's Zenith), combined with green's large creatures at the top of the curve, give a ramp player options for how to end a game after he's gotten to absurd amounts of mana.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
A few thoughts/questions....
What do we call the police on Ormos? In 1984 they were called the Thought Police. I feel we need something to reference on cards for this sort of thing.
I'm trying to talk a friend of mine into making some (non-card) art for our set, both how the block name is written, as well as the set symbol. Does anybody have any ideas for these?
Is everybody aware of/on-board with the idea that the Brotherhood basically believes in male Human superiority? As I said a while back, Dahl "loves" all of his subjects (creations?, disciples?), but only some of them were made in is image.
Have we settled on a B/R archetype? What I meant by punishment/burn was cards like Lavaborn Muse, Blightning, Liliana's Caress, Anathemancer, Breath of Malfegor, Havoc Festival, Mudbutton Torchrunner, Rabid Bloodsucker etc. I see, Viashino and Ratillions being the most sadistic races on the plane. Most of them don't fit very well into the false vision Dahl has put forth, therefore most of them are toiling away doing Dahl's dirty work out of sight of the rest of the Ormosians.
I personally like ramp much more than Zombies in BG, but who knows about others? I'd say let's try to change the question: does anybody else have something against adopting ramp for BG? If we don't hear anything in short time, we make it official.
I have very vague memories about this. I think I remember seeing an ability called compost, but I'd lie if I said I remember what it did. We'd have to check in case, but if we go with BG ramp (as I hope) we won't need this.
If you're referring to my Chip-Detecting Dog, it was just an example. It can be turned into an Ainok very easily. I'd really like the Ainok to have the role of chip-hunters in the Rebellion. I don't know why, but I see them perfectly in that role.
I never thought about this. All I know for now is that it needs to be a positive-sounding name that hides a negative thing, according to the universal naming system of the Brotherhood.
Very good! One thing to think about: which word do we want the logo to be centered on? Usually it's the name of the plane, so it would be something like "Brotherhood of" written in relatively small characters and "Ormos" that takes the focus of the logo (see "Battle for / Zendikar", "Scars of / Mirrodin", "Shards of / Alara"), but maybe in our case the word "Brotherhood" is actually more important.
I am, and anyway two women bringing the Rebellion to victory will balance that.
Unfortunately, not yet. And that brings me back to my original point.
Let's come to a point. I'd say to give some time (hopefully not more than a few days) for everyone to recheck everything and possibly answer to the question:
Does anybody on the team have anything against any of the following? If you have concerns, please bring them up now!
• Story (as written in my blog post)
• Map / Worldbuilding (as written in my blog post)
• Adopting ramp as the BG limited archetype.
• Adopting punishment/burn as the BR limited archetype as explained by Flatline in his last posts.
• Adopting traditional Rebel tribal as the GW limited archetype (as opposed to RG which is based on embolden).
• Adopting embolden as the official name for the prowl-variant mechanic.
• Adopting legged Merfolk as the missing blue race.
• Not having Vampires on Ormos.
• Adopting the color/race split Flatline proposed in post #155 on this page, with each color having one race only in that color and the other one shared with one of its ally colors.
• Adopting the name "Ministries", dividing them as written in my blog post, and calling the black one "of Guilt" and the green one "of Agriculture".
• Adopting the three mechanics per color split I proposed.
I think these are all the things we still have hanging. I'd really like to close all these questions before moving any further. I'd adopt a principle of silent consent: if we don't hear anything in a reasonable time, we assume that all of the above is good and move on to... the cards! Finally!
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Edit: Is coming up with the cycles we want in the set come prior to actual card making? I would assume so.
Edit2: At the very least, we know we want a rare land cycle (I'm good with Tilwin's sorcery lands, although I'm wondering if Tilwin's original design might actually be the way to go here. I guess we'll see during playtest). I also think we need to make a cycle of mythic (could be rare) creatures to represent the head of each of Dahl's Ministries.
Edit3: Flavor note: I think there should be no Shaman or Druid creatures in the Brotherhood. These are both considered to be heretical philosophies, and are strictly outlawed on Ormos. There can be Rebel flavored cards with these types of course.
I hope that post doesn't sound harsh, it's not meant to be. I'm just getting tired of waiting for things to move on, and I feel we're ready for the next step.
I think we'll want to have an idea of what we want the major cycles to be, others will come naturally. I agree with rare lands (already added in the skeleton if you noticed) and the Heads of Ministries. Ok on the flavor note. I revised the uncommon skeleton because I forgot the draft gold cycle, and we'll have to think if we also want a few gold cards in other rarities and how many. But first let's close all those open questions, let's not add further ones for now.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
World: This looks great! I would like having some cards at rare (maybe the green-aligned dual lands) that represent remote places that were almost untouched by the brotherhood.
BG ramp: I have no problem with that. I also think that black's top end in this set can be particularly big to have some finishers for WB.
RB punish/burn: Most (if not all) punishment effects do not fit in common. Burn is possible, but I don't see the punishment thing as being really archetype defining.
GW rebels: Love it! Rebels are one of my favorite tribes though, so i'm a little biased here.
Embolden: No problem. I don't love the name, but I don't think that the other suggested names would be better.
Merfolk: Merfolk in magic have been legged since Zendikar (Cosi's Trickster) and there were some legged merfolk earlier (Saprazzan Bailiff). I Don't see any problem.
Vampires: Yeah, they don't really fir Ormos.
Color/Race split: Sounds good. Maybe, if we still have trouble fitting some races in, we can use classes instead for some slots.
Ministries: I have no problem with the name.
3 mechanics per color: Perfect!
This all sounds really awesome and I can't wait to start design!
For the record, Kiora is also a legged Merfolk.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I think we have a few too many implants. I think I might cut back 2 commons, 2 uncommons, and at least 1 rare. I would like to have a few normal equipment (for the Rebels), as well as some noncreature surveillance type devices. Dahl creates more than just Drones and implants, but if we use up all the artifact slots, we won't be able to see them.
I think if we are going B/G ramp, we need at least 1 large black creature at common if possible.
I'm wondering if we could get away with a few more multi-color cards. This might just be because I like them so much though. I'm not sure how to work them into the skeleton though. Perhaps we could do a cycle at each rarity other than mythic? What are people's thoughts?
I had much less in the beginning, but then I increased the number of them after a comment by Tilwin saying they might have been too few to matter. Also, Drone in that contest just means "non-Implant ordinary artifact, possibly creature, affiliated with the Brotherhood".
Agreed, I didn't think of that. I'll add it.
I expected this request! Uncommon is already taken care of with the draft guide cycle across all ten color pairs and I wouldn't add more. A few could probably fit at rare. Then it depends on what we want the as-fan of gold to be (that is how many gold cards you will open in one booster pack on average for those that might not know what as-fan means). If we want them at common too, do we want a whole cycle of ten or we do only the pairs within the main colors of the factions (that is only WU, UB, WB for the Brotherhood and RG, GW, RW for the Rebels)?
EDIT: modified the skeleton keeping into account the feedback. Added a gold ten-card cycle at common, a five-card one at rare (we'll decide if allied, enemy or some other split), generic Brotherhood-affiliated artifacts, Rebel equipment, and the mythic skeleton. I count 137-F as extra in white, that's why it has one more mythic. In real sets too, mythics are rarely perfectly balanced through the colors.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I was having a similar idea, though I didn't have it fleshed out as you do.
That's the most important thing. For us gold should just be a subtheme, not the main theme around which the whole set revolves. Each of the two sets should still support the pairs it doesn't include, just less. If you want to draft a Rebel color pair in the Brotherhood set, you should still be able to do it, you just won't have that many gold cards.
I agree with this split even for the extra color pairs. UR has to be in the Brotherhood set because it's associated to the Ministry of Industry and the artifacts Dahl makes. The last pair then has to contain green which is not yet represented in the first set, so it must be either BG or GU. It has to be BG otherwise blue is not represented in the second set. There are no alternatives if we want all colors to be represented in both sets, even if not equally (as you correctly said, that's impossible).
Ok, I like to avoid the classic allied/enemy split.
We just have to.
Good.
Unfortunately, there isn't much green philosophically in her character. She's pretty much pure Boros.
Yes, I'm convinced this is the correct approach.
You'll see how important and useful the spreadsheet will be quite soon, but I understand this need. Short scheme coming later tonight.
I think I'll just categorize it generically as aggro/burn for now. I'll make a point of where we are later tonight and I also think I'll update the blog.
Me too.
Yes, I think that's possible. Let me make that point I just talked about and I'll tell you.
EDIT: Blog updated making official all the bold points from a post of mine from a couple days ago. If you're on the team and you have any doubt about something written on the blog page, speak now! I'm waiting for Flatline's opinion to incorporate Tilwin's proposal about the split of color pairs too.
RARITY BREAKDOWN (as of now)
COMMON
As of now, each color has 15 cards, but it may need to be cut to 14 or 13 if we want to have even more gold cards in the spirit of Tilwin's proposal.
• W: 10 total creatures, of which 6 small, 1 small or medium, 3 medium. 1 token-making instant or sorcery. Other 4 noncreatures.
• U: 6 total creatures, of which 4 small, 1 medium, 1 large. Other 9 noncreatures.
• B: 8 total creatures, of which 3 small, 1 small or medium, 3 medium, 1 large (for BG ramp). Other 7 noncreatures.
• R: 7 total creatures, of which 4 small, 3 medium. Other 8 noncreatures.
• G: 9 total creatures, of which 3 small, 1 small or medium, 3 medium, 2 large. Other 6 noncreatures.
• Gold: 10 cards, for now a cycle throughout all color pairs. I'd say about half of these should be creatures.
• Artifacts: 15 cards, of which 3 artifact creatures (Drones?), 5 Implants, 2 classic non-Implant Equipment for Rebels, 3 non-Equipment generic Brotherhood-affiliated artifacts, 2 non-Equipment generic artifacts that can be Brotherhood-affiliated but don't have to be.
• Lands: 1 Evolving Wilds-like land.
• Total: 101 commons, of which 48 creatures.
UNCOMMON
As of now, each color has 12 cards, but it may need to be cut to 11 or 10 if we want to have even more gold cards in the spirit of Tilwin's proposal.
• W: 7 creatures, 5 noncreatures.
• U: 5 creatures, 7 noncreatures.
• B: 6 creatures, 6 noncreatures.
• R: 6 creatures, 6 noncreatures.
• G: 7 creatures, 5 noncreatures.
• Gold: 10 cards, that must be the draft cycle meant to give indications to less experienced drafters. The cycle must go throughout all ten color pairs. I'd say about half of these should be creatures.
• Artifacts: 10 cards, of which 3 artifact creatures (Drones?), 3 Implants, 1 classic non-Implant Equipment for Rebels, 3 non-Equipment generic artifacts that can be Brotherhood-affiliated but don't have to be.
• Lands: 0.
• Total: 80 uncommons, of which 39 creatures.
RARE
As of now, each color has 7 cards, but it may need to be cut to 6 or 5 if we want to have even more gold cards in the spirit of Tilwin's proposal.
• W: 5 creatures, 2 noncreatures.
• U: 3 creatures, 4 noncreatures.
• B: 4 creatures, 3 noncreatures.
• R: 4 creatures, 3 noncreatures.
• G: 5 creatures, 2 noncreatures.
• Gold: 5 cards, that I expect to be a cycle. I'd say at least 2 of these should be creatures.
• Artifacts: 8 cards, of which 2 artifact creatures (Drones?), 2 Implants, 1 classic non-Implant Equipment for Rebels, 3 non-Equipment generic artifacts that can be Brotherhood-affiliated but don't have to be.
• Lands: 5 (the rare "Sorcery Lands" cycle).
• Total: 53 rares, of which 25 creatures.
MYTHIC
• W: 2 creatures (of which one is 137-F and the other is the white Ministry Head), 1 noncreature.
• U, B, R, G: 1 creature (Ministry Head), 1 noncreature each.
• Gold: 3 cards. One is Dahl, one is Freigh, and 1 creature.
• Artifacts: 1 (the Isolation Network).
• Lands: 0.
• Total: 15 mythics, of which 7 creatures and 2 planeswalkers.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I think we need one slot for a mythic rare artifact to represent the Isolation Network. Right?
Ok, that's what I wanted to know for now. It looks like everyone likes it! Well done Tilwin! I'll put it into the blog asap.
Right, I forgot about it. Make it 3 gold mythics (of which the two planeswalkers) and that artifact then!
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I'm really glad to see that someone is designing a set based on 1984. I remember reading it in High School. We had a long term substitute teacher at the time, and afterwards we watched the European movie based off of it. Someone in the class complained to the administration because of all the sex in the movie, and then the sub got fired and could never work at that school again. Talk about self referential. Anyways, good to see a set based off of this. I think V is for Vendetta gets at similar ideas (and also has a female protagonist, which could be good).
I did want to comment on one thing that I've noticed. Tilwin made a comment that all of the Brotherhood mechanics targeted opposing creatures. I think most agreed with this, but I don't think that this is a good thing. Why have three mechanics doing what could be done with just one? Furthermore, I don't think it really gets at all of what the Brotherhood is about. Yes, they are oppressive, but they are also secretive and rely on all of society to keep each other in line. There is a certain subtlety to that which these sorts of mechanics do not really get at.
Specifically, I remember being a little nonplussed when I first read the brainwash mechanic, because it was affecting power and toughness, neither of which have anything to do with how the game generally thinks of "brains." Typically, it seems, mind related things in Magic have to do with your hand or graveyard. And the implants seem to already be geared towards affecting creature abilities. What if instead of affecting creatures, brainwash was something that affected libraries? Maybe like scrying your opponents library.
ie- Brainwash (you may look at the top card of your opponents library and then either put it on the top or the bottom of their library)
I think this gets at the weariness of fascism that isn't as evident as things that affect power and toughness. Maybe it's not the brainwash mechanic specifically that should be changed, but one of those three replaced with something that affects the opponents hand or library instead of their creatures. Maybe it's too late to make this sort of change at this point, but if you notice that these three mechanics are somewhat redundant when you get to playtesting, it might be worth considering replacing one of them with something like this instead.
Either way, I'm having lots of fun following this design (and hopefully these comments are still relevant even though I'm a week behind on reading up on it).
looking for feedback, card names, and card proposals for a handful or rare and mythic slots.
EDIT: They have said it could show off, for example, as one-off cards non-keyworded. Would fit the flavor well on a one-off card.
Is this where outsiders to the project can make suggestions?
If I'm getting the flavor of your setting right, then the Brotherhood is similar, in concept, to Big Brother mixed in with religion. If that's the case, you want your name for the "police force" (more like local inquisition) to either: