Grisper Archeologist (Uncommon) 2RR
Creature - Human
2/2
When Grisper Archeologist enters the battlefield, destroy target nonbasic land.
Reconstruct 3R (3R, Discard this card: Return target artifact or creature card with the same converted mana cost as this card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Reconstruct only as a sorcery.)
But then blue or red can't do it. Artifact is the only types that can all really do. It's rather frustrating how close I am to quite a good mechanic, but just slipping below the acceptable range. Instant/sorcery is close (black and white are close to being able to do it) and so is creatures (blue and red are as well).
In general, these colours can return these types from graveyard to hand:
White: artifact, creature (occasionally), planeswalker (by assumption, they are treated like creatures in similar cases), enchantment
Blue: artifact, instant, sorcery, enchantment (occasionally)
Black: artifact, creature, planeswalker (by assumption)
Red: artifact, instant, sorcery
Green: anything (when unspecified), enchantment, land, creature (occasionally), planeswalker (by assumption)
Convert/Reconstruct [Cost] ([Cost], Discard this card: Return from your graveyard to your hand target card with the same type as this card or artifact card. Convert/Reconstruct only as a sorcery).
This way you can decide to put it on the cards of the "color-pie-fitting" color and it doesn't break it since they all work with artifacts as well. It would be as if the Converted/Reconstructive card gives its power either to a spell with the same type or to "reboot" an artifact. I think it could work, I'm justnot sure about the wording, but the idea is the same (card with the same type as this card or artifact card... card card card)
I think red would be acceptable, easy. Certainly more acceptable than Unearth in blue, (which was what I was thinking of when I suggested the "or creature" version). But yeah, there's a huge difference between a blue creature being able to Unearth itself and a blue card that can Unearth another creature card.
It's rather frustrating how close I am to quite a good mechanic, but just slipping below the acceptable range.
I know the feeling all to well.
How about opening it up to two card types per color, with each color having access to artifact retrieval and access to retrieval of one other color-appropriate card type? So each color has a unifying identity as well as a unique identity.
Convert - W, Discard Card Name: Return target artifact or enchantment card with the same converted mana cost as Card Name from your graveyard to your hand.
Convert - U, Discard Card Name: Return target artifact or instant card with the same converted mana cost as Card Name from your graveyard to your hand.
Convert - B, Discard Card Name: Return target artifact or creature card with the same converted mana cost as Card Name from your graveyard to your hand.
Convert - R, Discard Card Name: Return target artifact or sorcery card with the same converted mana cost as Card Name from your graveyard to your hand.
Grisper Archeologist (Uncommon) 2RR
Creature - Human
2/2
When Grisper Archeologist enters the battlefield, destroy target nonbasic land. Convert - 3R, Discard Grisper Archeologist: Return target artifact or sorcery card with the same converted mana cost as Grisper Archeologist from your graveyard to your hand.
@Zervintz
The "or artifact" is pretty artificial though, it doesn't look like a natural part of the mechanic.
@Legend.
An ability word is an interesting possibility. It does allow free cardtype range but it also is less elegant. I don't want to go with the CMC restriction as it seems unnecessary at this stage at least.
I am thinking either:
Convert [cost] ([cost], Discard this card: Return target card from your graveyard to your hand that shares a cardtype with this card.)
or Convert- [cost], Discard this card: Return [type] card from your graveyard to your hand.
Might work.
Maybe a reverse version, say:
Convert [cost] ([cost], Discard a card: Return this card from your graveyard to your hand.)
@Legend.
An ability word is an interesting possibility. It does allow free cardtype range but it also is less elegant. I don't want to go with the CMC restriction as it seems unnecessary at this stage at least.
Since when are ability words less elegant?
I think the CMC restriction would be easier to develop and would be less warping on the eternal cardpool. But most importatnly, it has the flavor of "conversion" rather than "try to become something infinitely better".
Since when are ability words less elegant?
I think the CMC restriction would be easier to develop and would be less warping on the eternal cardpool. But most importatnly, it has the flavor of "conversion" rather than "try to become something infinitely better".
The loss of elegance in an ability word version is because it's an activated ability with costs. It doesn't read as well as it does as a keyword.
The flavour of "conversion" is improved without the CMC restriction, it facilitates a notable change, and it also fits with flavour better (improvement is a very blue thing). Without the CMC restriction, is it really OP? It's doesn't give any card advantage and it has a mana cost so dredge players can't just spam it. I'm sure it could be good in eternal formats, but I doubt it would really be that bad.
Maybe
Convert [cost] ([cost], Discard a creature or artifact card: Return this card from your graveyard to your hand.)
This way colour issues can be avoided, while keeping the identity of both Grixis and Esper.
EDIT:
Updated Aranahm, Eranor and Remar in line with feedback.
Some minor tweaks, changed four-colour generic rare cycle into all-creatures so they can be intro pack promos, added some monocolour rares, going ahead with last Convert idea.
Continuing to flesh out set: cards added, mostly reprints (this is a two-block paradigm set so it will have more reprints than KTK and before, in the same way as BFZ and beyond will have. This is due to the end of core sets).
Unlike most sets, the biggest challenge by far for this set is more structural than raw design. The basis of the whole block is a unique variation on multicolour factions and this leads to a bunch of challenges.
Getting the right level of multicolour with hybrid, off colour and good ol' normal monocolour is crucial for limited. There simultaenously needs to be enough incentive for people to regularly play four colour decks and enough reason to play two colour and three colour decks in a similar frequency. The preference is that they are all perfectly balanced, but seeing as that will never happen, leaning a bit towards the four colour end is preference as it is the newest and most exciting.
One of the ways this can be accomplished effectively is using format speed. The intention is that this set will have a faster format speed but have more multicoloured than it would for just three colours. In this way, the incentive to play two colours is tempo as well as consistency. This idea is very much up to change in development, but seeing how important it is to the design, I want to have a plan earlier on.
Another way is using specific cards; both the Vanguard and colour-hoser uncommon cycles help do this. Both serve to discourage light splashing and encourage more commitment. This serves to encourage four colour and two colour decks depending on what cards are opened: if you get lots of multicolour they encourage going for it and if you don't get much they encourage holding back.
The next concern for this set is tying themes across multiple colour combinations will still giving each and every one something a little bit different. The archetypes of this set are formed from five archetypes split into fifteen. Each of the colour combinations in a 'series' have the same core thems but take slightly different variations. The general rule is: the more colours, the slower the archetype is.
This is the current plan:
: Endurance mid/control
: Convert mid/control
: Chaotic aggro/mid
: Charge ramp/mid
: Prosper aggro
: Midrange creatures
: Artifacts control
: Graveyard combo
: Value ramp
: Power matters ramp
: Endurance control
: Convert control
: Chaotic midrange
: Charge ramp
: Prosper midrange
-
Design priorities based on this: refine multicolour quanities, clarify themes, support good format speed
Added more rares, the second series of mechanic uncommons and a cycle of off-colour commons.
Minorly tweaked a few cards.
Replaced Altar's Reap with Tenacious Dead as uncommon black reprint because Altar's was to similar to Life's Legacy and Fling (both also in the set).
DESIGN OVERVIEW: Block overlap and making a new standard
One of the reasons I have chosen to make multiple blocks of sets is because it allows me to create a unique standard format free from the constraints of existing sets. This adds an extra degree of interest for me as well as an extra challenge to overcome. The other reason is simply because I have too many ideas .
Any of you who have read a good deal about my other set Runin have probably noticed some overlaps in themes and individual cards that are suspiciously well suited to either set in the other (Did anyone notice Bone Splinters in Runin and see the connection?). For those of you who don't know Runin is a Norse mythology based top-down set. It has five mechanics currently (with some alternate ideas in waiting): Honoured, Fated, Overwhelm, Reinforce (returning from Morningtide) and Mantle.
Honoured fits into the Chaotic strategy with it's death theme and secondarily into the Charge and Prosper decks with aggressive creature themes. Fated is supported through a few cards. Overwhelm fits into Jund and Naya in all their forms. Reinforce fits straight into the Charge deck. Mantle being an equipment mechanic fits into Esper. In this way, the major archetypes mesh reasonably well into constructed.
The biggest challenge this brings is that it adds extra development time: for each change I make to one set, more changes will likely follow in the others, which would have to be considered in the relation to the first, maybe spurring more changes. But I'm okay with this extra work as it will make the end results more satisfying for me personally. Who doesn't want to play mock games of standard as it would be in their own custom designs?
Grisper Archeologist (Uncommon)
2RR
Creature - Human
2/2
When Grisper Archeologist enters the battlefield, destroy target nonbasic land.
Reconstruct 3R (3R, Discard this card: Return target artifact or creature card with the same converted mana cost as this card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Reconstruct only as a sorcery.)
In general, these colours can return these types from graveyard to hand:
White: artifact, creature (occasionally), planeswalker (by assumption, they are treated like creatures in similar cases), enchantment
Blue: artifact, instant, sorcery, enchantment (occasionally)
Black: artifact, creature, planeswalker (by assumption)
Red: artifact, instant, sorcery
Green: anything (when unspecified), enchantment, land, creature (occasionally), planeswalker (by assumption)
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
This way you can decide to put it on the cards of the "color-pie-fitting" color and it doesn't break it since they all work with artifacts as well. It would be as if the Converted/Reconstructive card gives its power either to a spell with the same type or to "reboot" an artifact. I think it could work, I'm justnot sure about the wording, but the idea is the same (card with the same type as this card or artifact card... card card card)
Custom set projects:
Aenyr: Art is Magic (100% done and fully draftable!)
Elestral: Astronomy, Weather and Duality (Currently in early design.)
Multiplayer commander decks
RGWU Bruse and Thrasios: Enchanted Alliance | BR Grenzo's Jail of Malevolence | RWU Shu Yun's Teachings | B Toshiro Umezawa's Eternal Journey | WU Ephara's City of Wonders
Avatar art by Stephan A. McGowan
I think red would be acceptable, easy. Certainly more acceptable than Unearth in blue, (which was what I was thinking of when I suggested the "or creature" version). But yeah, there's a huge difference between a blue creature being able to Unearth itself and a blue card that can Unearth another creature card.
I know the feeling all to well.
How about opening it up to two card types per color, with each color having access to artifact retrieval and access to retrieval of one other color-appropriate card type? So each color has a unifying identity as well as a unique identity.
Convert - W, Discard Card Name: Return target artifact or enchantment card with the same converted mana cost as Card Name from your graveyard to your hand.
Convert - U, Discard Card Name: Return target artifact or instant card with the same converted mana cost as Card Name from your graveyard to your hand.
Convert - B, Discard Card Name: Return target artifact or creature card with the same converted mana cost as Card Name from your graveyard to your hand.
Convert - R, Discard Card Name: Return target artifact or sorcery card with the same converted mana cost as Card Name from your graveyard to your hand.
Grisper Archeologist (Uncommon)
2RR
Creature - Human
2/2
When Grisper Archeologist enters the battlefield, destroy target nonbasic land.
Convert - 3R, Discard Grisper Archeologist: Return target artifact or sorcery card with the same converted mana cost as Grisper Archeologist from your graveyard to your hand.
The "or artifact" is pretty artificial though, it doesn't look like a natural part of the mechanic.
@Legend.
An ability word is an interesting possibility. It does allow free cardtype range but it also is less elegant. I don't want to go with the CMC restriction as it seems unnecessary at this stage at least.
I am thinking either:
Convert [cost] ([cost], Discard this card: Return target card from your graveyard to your hand that shares a cardtype with this card.)
or
Convert- [cost], Discard this card: Return [type] card from your graveyard to your hand.
Might work.
Maybe a reverse version, say:
Convert [cost] ([cost], Discard a card: Return this card from your graveyard to your hand.)
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Only because it isn't worded correctly.
Since when are ability words less elegant?
I think the CMC restriction would be easier to develop and would be less warping on the eternal cardpool. But most importatnly, it has the flavor of "conversion" rather than "try to become something infinitely better".
No identity. It tosses the Esper side of the group out of the window.
Basically what I proposed except it lacks the Esper artifact binding element.
Busted. 10x the developmental issues of Cipher.
Dude, when was the last time you accepted someone's design proposal? I'd like to see a quote.
So how would it be worded then?
The loss of elegance in an ability word version is because it's an activated ability with costs. It doesn't read as well as it does as a keyword.
The flavour of "conversion" is improved without the CMC restriction, it facilitates a notable change, and it also fits with flavour better (improvement is a very blue thing). Without the CMC restriction, is it really OP? It's doesn't give any card advantage and it has a mana cost so dredge players can't just spam it. I'm sure it could be good in eternal formats, but I doubt it would really be that bad.
Yeah, this mechanic keeps drifting between being too Esper or too Grixis, I can't seem to find a good middle ground.
Prosper, the Naya/Bant mechanic, was suggested to me in the original thread for this set idea.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Convert [cost] ([cost], Discard a creature or artifact card: Return this card from your graveyard to your hand.)
This way colour issues can be avoided, while keeping the identity of both Grixis and Esper.
EDIT:
Updated Aranahm, Eranor and Remar in line with feedback.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Some minor tweaks, changed four-colour generic rare cycle into all-creatures so they can be intro pack promos, added some monocolour rares, going ahead with last Convert idea.
EDIT: fixed formatting issue
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Continuing to flesh out set: cards added, mostly reprints (this is a two-block paradigm set so it will have more reprints than KTK and before, in the same way as BFZ and beyond will have. This is due to the end of core sets).
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Unlike most sets, the biggest challenge by far for this set is more structural than raw design. The basis of the whole block is a unique variation on multicolour factions and this leads to a bunch of challenges.
Getting the right level of multicolour with hybrid, off colour and good ol' normal monocolour is crucial for limited. There simultaenously needs to be enough incentive for people to regularly play four colour decks and enough reason to play two colour and three colour decks in a similar frequency. The preference is that they are all perfectly balanced, but seeing as that will never happen, leaning a bit towards the four colour end is preference as it is the newest and most exciting.
One of the ways this can be accomplished effectively is using format speed. The intention is that this set will have a faster format speed but have more multicoloured than it would for just three colours. In this way, the incentive to play two colours is tempo as well as consistency. This idea is very much up to change in development, but seeing how important it is to the design, I want to have a plan earlier on.
Another way is using specific cards; both the Vanguard and colour-hoser uncommon cycles help do this. Both serve to discourage light splashing and encourage more commitment. This serves to encourage four colour and two colour decks depending on what cards are opened: if you get lots of multicolour they encourage going for it and if you don't get much they encourage holding back.
The next concern for this set is tying themes across multiple colour combinations will still giving each and every one something a little bit different. The archetypes of this set are formed from five archetypes split into fifteen. Each of the colour combinations in a 'series' have the same core thems but take slightly different variations. The general rule is: the more colours, the slower the archetype is.
This is the current plan:
: Endurance mid/control
: Convert mid/control
: Chaotic aggro/mid
: Charge ramp/mid
: Prosper aggro
: Midrange creatures
: Artifacts control
: Graveyard combo
: Value ramp
: Power matters ramp
: Endurance control
: Convert control
: Chaotic midrange
: Charge ramp
: Prosper midrange
-
Design priorities based on this: refine multicolour quanities, clarify themes, support good format speed
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Even more cards added, some cards tweaked
Considering changing Chaotic by adding "another".
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Added more rares, the second series of mechanic uncommons and a cycle of off-colour commons.
Minorly tweaked a few cards.
Replaced Altar's Reap with Tenacious Dead as uncommon black reprint because Altar's was to similar to Life's Legacy and Fling (both also in the set).
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
One of the reasons I have chosen to make multiple blocks of sets is because it allows me to create a unique standard format free from the constraints of existing sets. This adds an extra degree of interest for me as well as an extra challenge to overcome. The other reason is simply because I have too many ideas .
Any of you who have read a good deal about my other set Runin have probably noticed some overlaps in themes and individual cards that are suspiciously well suited to either set in the other (Did anyone notice Bone Splinters in Runin and see the connection?). For those of you who don't know Runin is a Norse mythology based top-down set. It has five mechanics currently (with some alternate ideas in waiting): Honoured, Fated, Overwhelm, Reinforce (returning from Morningtide) and Mantle.
Honoured fits into the Chaotic strategy with it's death theme and secondarily into the Charge and Prosper decks with aggressive creature themes. Fated is supported through a few cards. Overwhelm fits into Jund and Naya in all their forms. Reinforce fits straight into the Charge deck. Mantle being an equipment mechanic fits into Esper. In this way, the major archetypes mesh reasonably well into constructed.
The biggest challenge this brings is that it adds extra development time: for each change I make to one set, more changes will likely follow in the others, which would have to be considered in the relation to the first, maybe spurring more changes. But I'm okay with this extra work as it will make the end results more satisfying for me personally. Who doesn't want to play mock games of standard as it would be in their own custom designs?
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
some cards changed, more generic uncommons added, the Exemplar cycle was replaced with uncommon hybrid cards.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Fleshing out continues with the first gold multicolour cycle at common and a cycle of secondary-colour mechanic uncommons.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
A few more common reprints added, some cards tweaked.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Finished first pass of rares, uncommons. Will finish commons soon.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Tweaked some cards, notably the four-colour legends based on balancing. Added Symbiotic Hulk to the mythic rares.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice