On Ezuth, there is always a hierarchy. But there is always only one sky, one earth and one ocean, and the order in which they come in would surprise many. The question is, how far are the inhabitants willing to go? Would they "ascend" to the heights of The Heavens or "descend" to the depths of The Abyss?
Plane Setup
As mentioned, the plane of Ezuth is one large entity. All mana exists within it but are divided into five separate "levels" that correspond to their dominant colour.
The set is named Vertigo because these "levels" are set atop one another, with the uppermost being The Heavens (W), followed by The Oasis (G), The Pyre (R), The Hollow (B) and The Abyss (U). While they are the main colours of these levels, a colour from above bleeds into each of them, for example: The Abyss is UB while U cycles around to the top to be part of The Heavens WU (PSSST, important storyline information)
It should also be noted that in physical terms, the sky represents The Heavens; a jungle/forest plateau represents The Oasis; at the borders of this plateau, cliffs, caves and further below, pits of fire/magma/lava represents The Pyre; holes and chasms within those pits lead to The Hollow; and underground rivers and oceans are the beginning of The Abyss.
This physical layout of the plane translates flavourfully into certain mechanics and themes that are already in use, as well as some newly designed ones. As for whether this will be the first of two or three sets I am not sure, 249 cards are a lot to design, and my vision of the story is not yet complete, therefore I am unsure how many future sets this plane can sustain.
W Soar (Whenever a creature with flying is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on this creature.) (keywording of Soulcatcher)
GAbundance — [effect] as long as you control seven or more lands.
B Hoard X(If you put another card from your hand at the bottom of your library, you may cast this spell for its Hoard cost instead.)
Creature - Siren (R)
Players draw cards from the bottom of his or her library instead of the top. T: Look at the top card of target player’s library, you may put it at the bottom of that player’s library. A light in the darkest of waters, or the desires from the darkest recesses of the mind.
2/2
Calling for Comments on
Abundance - yes, it is Threshold inspired, what I need to gauge is what the number of lands should be? Less than seven or more than seven? Discuss!
Scavenge has turned into Hoard, this has many more uses as I already confined a creature mechanic into The Heavens and didn't want to do the same to The Hollow. Feel free to give examples of how awesome or stupid this mechanic will be for this set.
Having problems with the R mechanic, brainstorm with me!
I am looking forward to seeing more of this set, especially your theme. I explored this design space with Elder Scrolls, so I was intrigued by Siren of the Abyss:
Elder Scrolls Artifact (Rare) As long as Elder Scrolls is untapped, players draw cards from the bottom of their libraries instead of the top.
I also used it as a major theme in the FDC contest:
Malicious Daydream :2mana::symu::symb: Enchantment (Rare) If a player would draw a card, that player may pay 2 life instead. If that player doesn't, he or she puts the bottom card of his or her library into his or her hand. Otherwise, that player draws a card.
Your theme does have some cool and potentially powerful interactions with existing cards, let alone (I'm sure) the cards in your set...
You should try to fit 4 more cards in your set as the standard set size for WotC is now 249 cards.
I'm a fan of Stephanie Pui-Mun Law's art; however, on the cards she's done for Magic (Scouting Trek, Sunscape Apprentice, Temporal Distortion) she used the name "Stephanie Law"...
@Marco
Thanks for dropping by, did Elder Scrolls have a tap ability that tied in with the top-bottom manipulation? I had a look at the FDC thread and you reminded me of Fateseal, and I espeically enjoyed Decadence and Providence, might need to ask you to let me use them in this set
I've increased the number of cards to 249 as suggested, but it might be a long time before I get there - there are still quite a lot to flesh out! And the credit for Stephanie Law has also been changed, thanks for that!
Your set's premise seems pretty interesting. I've always wanted to design a set, but I could never find the time or patience to churn out DI commons and uncommons.
Soulshift (How many percentage of cards would need to be Spirits before this is viable?)
Flavour discussion on R, as the plane has Forests above Mountains! Initial thought is that G, The Oasis resides atop a plateau, while the sheer cliffs and chasm at the borders are the start of R, The Pyre.
Bouncing board for ideas on Soar as a mechanic, I need it to interact with creatures with flying, the current one works well within the flavour of spirits, as well as my intentions of rehashing the "Phantom" creatures from Judgement.
You would need a lot of Spirits for Soulshift to be any good. Kamigawa had tons of Spirits, and Soulshift was still only OK. Unless your set's flavor is heavily dependent on it, I wouldn't bother.
I don't see a problem with having Mountains physically below the Forest. There are undersea mountains on Earth, after all.
Since you can't really call a cliff a "mountain," you'd have to actually have smaller mountains in the plane while the Oasis is on a central plateau.
Soar seems interesting, assuming each other color also has its own keyword. You might have to include some potent hate cards to prevent Soar decks from becoming overly parasitic, however.
@AsianInvasion
I kind of dread making the bears, I guess thats what flavour text is for - and I'm all for pretty pictures
Thanks for confirming my thoughts on Soulshift, I'll put that on the backburner for the moment because it's still such an interesting mechanic to me - how broken would it be if it was a creature into play (battlefield) instead of hand?
I'll take your small moutains and raise you some caverns. What I mean is large caverns underneath the Forest which would contain the Mountains, as well as other earthly elements like lava, I could probably fit a volcano in there somewhere
And yes to the hosers, no set will be complete without them. I always admired Whirlwind, but my favourtie has to be Hurricane. I think this would be great for flavour, need to figure out how to do it without phasing though.
Thanks for confirming my thoughts on Soulshift, I'll put that on the backburner for the moment because it's still such an interesting mechanic to me - how broken would it be if it was a creature into play (battlefield) instead of hand?
I was thinking the same thoughts a while ago, and concluded, "Bah-roken."
I'll take your small moutains and raise you some caverns. What I mean is large caverns underneath the Forest which would contain the Mountains, as well as other earthly elements like lava, I could probably fit a volcano in there somewhere
That seems fine, but those will have to be some enormous caverns. Also, I think people generally call those things "stalagmites."
And yes to the hosers, no set will be complete without them. I always admired Whirlwind, but my favourtie has to be Hurricane. I think this would be great for flavour, need to figure out how to do it without phasing though.
Whirlwind is excellent, but lacks subtlety. Hurricane is no longer supported because green isn't "supposed" to get Fireball effects.
I'm sure you could make a card like Katabatic Winds with a drawback besides phasing.
Perhaps:
Spiteful Winds2GG
Enchantment
Creatures with flying don't untap during their controllers' untap steps.
Sacrifice a creature: Exile ~. If you do, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step. Any player may activate this ability.
I guess I drew a little from the story of Agamemnon and Iphigenia with that one.
I think Scry, Fateseal, Hideaway, and Cascade, along with color specific keywords, is quite a lot. Really, I'd consider cutting one -- preferably Cascade. My suggestion? Maybe use Fateseal in the set after this (I'd hope you're planning on making one because this looks fantastic.).
Here's an idea for the Pyre, and it might be lame, I dunno. What if there's a massive volcano in the center of the Pyre, and it spurt up a massive amount of lava. Something in the atmosphere of Oasis level caused the lava to harden, and turned into rock that the Oasis now sits upon. ...maybe? I have to say I like the plateau idea.
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@AI
Spiteful is quite good, and not a bad tie in to that tale you mentioned. I'll take a rain check and come back to this hoser later.
And I am thinking ENOURMOUS caverns, I probably need to draw a scale diagram one of these days to indicate these "levels" so I don't forget.
@Froxy
Duely noted with the mechanics, I've done some shuffling and concluded Fateseal (off-topically, I always thought it said Fatesteal, may be I'll keyword that) can indeed wait - can't guarantee a second set though - and that Cascade can be the blue mechanic here.
As for The Pyre and the volcano, it wouldn't be impossible, the important thing would be the "logistics" - what sort of element would make hot lava condense into a flat piece of land atop a still spewing volcano? And perhaps even more importantly, what that element would do to The Oasis and to a lesser degree, The Heavens.
Not bad thus far. I do have some beef with the Abyss... Somehow I would have seen it more with UGB because sometimes, even nature can be cruel.... With that said though, and keeping to your vision... Let me introduce another Siren.
Cunning Beauty- 2UB (R)
Creature- Siren
Flying, Fear
Whenever ~ is the target of a spell or an ability, you may copy that spell or ability to any target that spell or ability can target.
2/2
Once seen by many men, she is nothing more than the bane of the male subspecies.
What if Red existed parallel to all the other areas? For instance; Mountains can Pierce the heavens, and the pyre can sink to the depths. this means red's mechanic is the piecing together of all the other mechanics; red is allowed to pierce the hierarchy (like red would stay to its place anyway?)
Pyre-Born Scavenger 1RR
Creature - Human Rogue
Haste, Soar "There you stand/so proud and tall/but you'll soon learn/that all things fall"
-Pyre Nursery Rhyme
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Behold: I teach you the Ubermensch! He is this lightning!
He is this Madness!
I can't think of a mechanic for R, but pyre fits right in with B/ and R/ with it's definition. I'll try to brainstorm something up, but it seems that red doesn't have alot of mechanics.
Red cloud have an ability that triggers when the card or creature goes to the graveyard or something like that.
You can also have a hoard enabler like this:
Burial of Bones 1BBB
Enchantment (R)
Whenever you(or "a player") discards a card, you(or "that player) may put that card on the bottom of your(or "their") library.
Bones of the fallen of Ezuth are not tossed into graves, but instead in the Abyss.
Apologies for neglecting, I haven't forgotten about this yet! Been super busy with everything else, haven't had much time to mull things through just yet.
Cunning Beauty- 2UB (R)
Creature- Siren
Flying, Fear
Whenever ~ is the target of a spell or an ability, you may copy that spell or ability to any target that spell or ability can target.
2/2 Once seen by many men, she is nothing more than the bane of the male subspecies.
While a cool card, I don't know if I have allocated design space for this sort of effect. The library is still my main focus at this point, and although I know it can become limiting, I'm going to try building from the ground up and use the themes I have already constructed.
I am especially unsure about the flying part, UB will basicially have no flying unless there was an iconic leviathan, or granted, other smaller creatures which would make sense within the realm of an underground network of caverns and sea.
Fading Plum Aven 2WU
Creature - Bird Illusion (C or U)
Flying
Soar
At the beginning of your upkeep sacrifice another creature with flying. If you can't, remove a +1/+1 counter from ~.
2/2 or 2/3 or 3/3
Pretty good, definitely usable, I think the wording is still slightly off - what if there's no other flying creatures and there's no +1/+1 counter on it anymore?
...red is allowed to pierce the hierarchy (like red would stay to its place anyway?)
Pyre-Born Scavenger 1RR
Creature - Human Rogue
Haste, Soar "There you stand/so proud and tall/but you'll soon learn/that all things fall"
-Pyre Nursery Rhyme
Yes, up to a point, and its also a good idea of what red should be doing within this world. But I'm pretty certain I wouldn't want to give any red creatures Soar (perhaps Dragons, but only Dragons, and thats really pushing it). An amusing sidenote, Pyre and Nursery should not ever be next to each other.
You can also have a hoard enabler like this:
Burial of Bones 1BBB
Enchantment (R)
Whenever you(or "a player") discards a card, you(or "that player) may put that card on the bottom of your(or "their") library. Bones of the fallen of Ezuth are not tossed into graves, but instead in the Abyss.
How does that trigger Hoard? I've looked at it a few times and it still doesn't click? Elaborate please! But super flavour text, might change it to the Hollow instead, will see.
How about different levels of flying? Like creatures with flying 4 can't be blocked except by others with flying 4 or greater? Flying would be treated as flying 1, and so on.
Just a quick suggestion on Heaven's Aeria, and probably birds you'll have. Instead of +1/+1 counters, make it feather counters. It then works well with things like that bird lord from way back when (can't remember the name, someone please help DX) and Aven Mimeomancer.
I like where you're going with this design, but the second ability has anti-synergy with Soar as a mechanic. You would often find yourself debating between letting your flyers die and using this ability to save them. Perhaps you'd want to try something like, "Remove three +1/+1 counters from among creatures you control: Put a 1/1 white and blue Bird creature token with flying into play." If you wanted, you could reduce the cost two just two counters and make the Bird token legendary, but that might be too clunky.
W Soar (Whenever a creature with flying is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.) (keywording of Soulcatcher)
GAbundance — [effect] as long as you control seven or more lands.
B Hoard X(If you put another card from your hand at the bottom of your library, you may cast this spell for its Hoard cost instead.)
So far it doesn't look like any of the color-specific keywords chosen have any synergy between each other. I'm not sure if this is intentional, but as you seen in Shards of Alara Block, neighboring shards tended to have abilities that work very well together to support Limited play.
Abundance - yes, it is Threshold inspired, what I need to gauge is what the number of lands should be? Less than seven or more than seven? Discuss!
Scavenge has turned into Hoard, this has many more uses as I already confined a creature mechanic into The Heavens and didn't want to do the same to The Hollow. Feel free to give examples of how awesome or stupid this mechanic will be for this set.
Having problems with the R mechanic, brainstorm with me!
Seven lands is a lot, and a lot of games end before both players reach that many lands. I would suggest five lands, and increase that to six if it seems too low a number. Five is a more elegant number than six, though.
Hoard is a very interesting ability, but I think it would make more flavor sense if the ability triggered when the card with Hoard is put on the bottom, kind of like Madness. This might be overly parasitic with some of the current themes, but it's worth thinking about.
I've always liked the "red cares about opponents' hand size" mechanic, even though veryfewrealcards have explored this design space. If this tickles your fancy, I'm sure you could do a lot with it.
How does that trigger Hoard? I've looked at it a few times and it still doesn't click? Elaborate please! But super flavour text, might change it to the Hollow instead, will see.
I think it's supposed to read, "Whenever a player would discard a card, he or she may put that card on the bottom of his or her library instead."
Just a quick suggestion on Heaven's Aeria, and probably birds you'll have. Instead of +1/+1 counters, make it feather counters. It then works well with things like that bird lord from way back when (can't remember the name, someone please help DX) and Aven Mimeomancer.
Your idea actually makes sense, because this allows Soar to be relevant on noncreature permanents.
Usher of Birds would have:
Soar (Whenever a creature with flying is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on ~.)
Flying
~ gets +1/+1 for each feather counter on ~.
Soar (Whenever a creature with flying is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on ~.)
Creatures with soar get +1/+1 for each feather counter on ~.
You could also have cards with soar that do things other than pump:
Soar (Whenever a creature with flying is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on ~.) Removea feather counter from ~: Target creature with soar gains shroud until end of turn.
Your idea actually makes sense, because this allows Soar to be relevant on noncreature permanents.
Usher of Birds would have:
Soar (Whenever a creature with flying is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on ~.)
Flying
~ gets +1/+1 for each feather counter on ~.
Soar (Whenever a creature with flying is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on ~.)
Creatures with soar get +1/+1 for each feather counter on ~.
Thoughts, kiwoli?
Yes, it was Kangee. And you very thouroughly explained the point I was kinda trying to, but failing at, getting at.
My computer at home has packed up shop, hard drive most probably needs replacing - a slight setback but I thought I would reply to the comments while I have a little break at work - hopefully I'll have time to fix it on the weekend.
How about different levels of flying? Like creatures with flying 4 can't be blocked except by others with flying 4 or greater? Flying would be treated as flying 1, and so on.
While it is a good concept (I swear I've read a thread or two on it before) I never really seemed to like it. Flying should be as simple a mechanic as it gets, adding a number at the end increases the complexity and seems to go against the beauty of such a design. I'm also unsure how intuitive it is, does 1 mean its flying the highest or does 10 mean its flying the highest? I know that's the function of reminder text, but reminder text for flying is overkill to me.
Thank you for taking the time to do that, it really helps in the motivation department.
Very true about the mechanics, while it may not be intentional, it may make a little more sense in the story of the plane (to a certain degree). Non of the levels are actually aligned with each other. Inhabitants from The Oasis to the Abyss are all trying to "move up in the world", one level at a time. Having something that your enemy can't benefit from is like the secret weapon of each level - having said that, some of it still successfully crossed-over in Shards. It'll require some considerate effort and brainpower to tie them together, not undo-able but as always will require help from fellow forumers. I was hoping that the set-wide mechanic may help tie it all together but I have not designed those cards as yet.
I've noted down in my mind to change Abundance to "as long as there are ten or more lands on the battlefield" so it doesn't require you to have more lands than your opponent (although it will obviously help) Not quite the same as controlling five lands, but close, and this way the effects can be slightly more powerful as well as making land destruction (Pyre and/or Hollow) viable as a counter to Oasis.
Hoard was rightly inspired by Madness, but I didn't want it to feel too familiar, not the mention a lack of solid creativity. But on second thoughts it probably works out better if the discard clause was replaced with "card to the bottom of your library". And on this thought, Would it be prudent to make this a set-wide mechanic as all colours will interact with this?
Yea, that makes sense for Pyre, red is always about here and now so it should mess with the library the least out of all the colours. And the next best thing is what's in front of you - will make red cards a priority for the moment.
Yes, it was Kangee. And you very thouroughly explained the point I was kinda trying to, but failing at, getting at.
Also @AI, very cool ideas with Soar, definitely will be implemented. Out of the whole set, The Heaven's seem to be the most defined and best designed at the moment. It might not be a bad idea to set a majority of that level into concrete first before tackling the rest.
Heaven's Aerie is a tricky one, I originally envisioned it to be a card that would allow for some complex gameplay and do exactly what you said about debating whether to let things die or use the ability - which may actually be the same thing because sacrificing one or two might save all your other creatures. Your point of anti-synergy also makes sense however, and although I'm a fan of tokens, three counters for a 1/1 flying is a pretty hefty price most of the time. This card definitely warrants more discussion though, so debate away!
P.S. Soulcather's Aerie will be a functional reprint, and the last suggested card from AI will also see it into this set (99% certain about this). I'll leave that particular legend out but make another one - may be in the vein of Aerie Mystics as I really liked that card.
Also @AI, very cool ideas with Soar, definitely will be implemented. Out of the whole set, The Heaven's seem to be the most defined and best designed at the moment. It might not be a bad idea to set a majority of that level into concrete first before tackling the rest.
Heaven's Aerie is a tricky one, I originally envisioned it to be a card that would allow for some complex gameplay and do exactly what you said about debating whether to let things die or use the ability - which may actually be the same thing because sacrificing one or two might save all your other creatures. Your point of anti-synergy also makes sense however, and although I'm a fan of tokens, three counters for a 1/1 flying is a pretty hefty price most of the time. This card definitely warrants more discussion though, so debate away!
P.S. Soulcather's Aerie will be a functional reprint, and the last suggested card from AI will also see it into this set (99% certain about this). I'll leave that particular legend out but make another one - may be in the vein of Aerie Mystics as I really liked that card.
I'm glad you liked the idea of feather counters. Kangee and Aven Mimeomancer are both great cards in my opinion, and a set like this would be the perfect place to let them, and cards like them, shine. I'm excited to see your insane birds.
Plane Setup
As mentioned, the plane of Ezuth is one large entity. All mana exists within it but are divided into five separate "levels" that correspond to their dominant colour.
The set is named Vertigo because these "levels" are set atop one another, with the uppermost being The Heavens (W), followed by The Oasis (G), The Pyre (R), The Hollow (B) and The Abyss (U). While they are the main colours of these levels, a colour from above bleeds into each of them, for example: The Abyss is UB while U cycles around to the top to be part of The Heavens WU (PSSST, important storyline information)
It should also be noted that in physical terms, the sky represents The Heavens; a jungle/forest plateau represents The Oasis; at the borders of this plateau, cliffs, caves and further below, pits of fire/magma/lava represents The Pyre; holes and chasms within those pits lead to The Hollow; and underground rivers and oceans are the beginning of The Abyss.
This physical layout of the plane translates flavourfully into certain mechanics and themes that are already in use, as well as some newly designed ones. As for whether this will be the first of two or three sets I am not sure, 249 cards are a lot to design, and my vision of the story is not yet complete, therefore I am unsure how many future sets this plane can sustain.
Set information (to be completed)
249 Cards
Mechanics
Set-wide
Themes (to be completed)
Discuss and Critique this Card
Players draw cards from the bottom of his or her library instead of the top.
T: Look at the top card of target player’s library, you may put it at the bottom of that player’s library.
A light in the darkest of waters, or the desires from the darkest recesses of the mind.
2/2
Elder Scrolls
Artifact (Rare)
As long as Elder Scrolls is untapped, players draw cards from the bottom of their libraries instead of the top.
I also used it as a major theme in the FDC contest:
Malicious Daydream :2mana::symu::symb:
Enchantment (Rare)
If a player would draw a card, that player may pay 2 life instead. If that player doesn't, he or she puts the bottom card of his or her library into his or her hand. Otherwise, that player draws a card.
Your theme does have some cool and potentially powerful interactions with existing cards, let alone (I'm sure) the cards in your set...
You should try to fit 4 more cards in your set as the standard set size for WotC is now 249 cards.
I'm a fan of Stephanie Pui-Mun Law's art; however, on the cards she's done for Magic (Scouting Trek, Sunscape Apprentice, Temporal Distortion) she used the name "Stephanie Law"...
Thanks for dropping by, did Elder Scrolls have a tap ability that tied in with the top-bottom manipulation? I had a look at the FDC thread and you reminded me of Fateseal, and I espeically enjoyed Decadence and Providence, might need to ask you to let me use them in this set
I've increased the number of cards to 249 as suggested, but it might be a long time before I get there - there are still quite a lot to flesh out! And the credit for Stephanie Law has also been changed, thanks for that!
You would need a lot of Spirits for Soulshift to be any good. Kamigawa had tons of Spirits, and Soulshift was still only OK. Unless your set's flavor is heavily dependent on it, I wouldn't bother.
I don't see a problem with having Mountains physically below the Forest. There are undersea mountains on Earth, after all.
Since you can't really call a cliff a "mountain," you'd have to actually have smaller mountains in the plane while the Oasis is on a central plateau.
Soar seems interesting, assuming each other color also has its own keyword. You might have to include some potent hate cards to prevent Soar decks from becoming overly parasitic, however.
I look forward to seeing more.
I kind of dread making the bears, I guess thats what flavour text is for - and I'm all for pretty pictures
Thanks for confirming my thoughts on Soulshift, I'll put that on the backburner for the moment because it's still such an interesting mechanic to me - how broken would it be if it was a creature into play (battlefield) instead of hand?
I'll take your small moutains and raise you some caverns. What I mean is large caverns underneath the Forest which would contain the Mountains, as well as other earthly elements like lava, I could probably fit a volcano in there somewhere
And yes to the hosers, no set will be complete without them. I always admired Whirlwind, but my favourtie has to be Hurricane. I think this would be great for flavour, need to figure out how to do it without phasing though.
Good luck getting enough pretty pictures for all of them.
I was thinking the same thoughts a while ago, and concluded, "Bah-roken."
That seems fine, but those will have to be some enormous caverns. Also, I think people generally call those things "stalagmites."
Whirlwind is excellent, but lacks subtlety. Hurricane is no longer supported because green isn't "supposed" to get Fireball effects.
I'm sure you could make a card like Katabatic Winds with a drawback besides phasing.
Perhaps:
Spiteful Winds 2GG
Enchantment
Creatures with flying don't untap during their controllers' untap steps.
Sacrifice a creature: Exile ~. If you do, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step. Any player may activate this ability.
I guess I drew a little from the story of Agamemnon and Iphigenia with that one.
Here's an idea for the Pyre, and it might be lame, I dunno. What if there's a massive volcano in the center of the Pyre, and it spurt up a massive amount of lava. Something in the atmosphere of Oasis level caused the lava to harden, and turned into rock that the Oasis now sits upon. ...maybe? I have to say I like the plateau idea.
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Spiteful is quite good, and not a bad tie in to that tale you mentioned. I'll take a rain check and come back to this hoser later.
And I am thinking ENOURMOUS caverns, I probably need to draw a scale diagram one of these days to indicate these "levels" so I don't forget.
@Froxy
Duely noted with the mechanics, I've done some shuffling and concluded Fateseal (off-topically, I always thought it said Fatesteal, may be I'll keyword that) can indeed wait - can't guarantee a second set though - and that Cascade can be the blue mechanic here.
As for The Pyre and the volcano, it wouldn't be impossible, the important thing would be the "logistics" - what sort of element would make hot lava condense into a flat piece of land atop a still spewing volcano? And perhaps even more importantly, what that element would do to The Oasis and to a lesser degree, The Heavens.
Cunning Beauty- 2UB (R)
Creature- Siren
Flying, Fear
Whenever ~ is the target of a spell or an ability, you may copy that spell or ability to any target that spell or ability can target.
2/2
Once seen by many men, she is nothing more than the bane of the male subspecies.
Die Fools!!!
Looking for a Pokemon RP:
http://pokemonhaven223.proboards.com
Indulge your inner trainer today....
Fading Plum Aven 2WU
Creature - Bird Illusion (C or U)
Flying; Soar
At the beginning of your upkeep sacrifice another creature with flying. If you can't, remove a +1/+1 counter from ~.
2/2 or 2/3 or 3/3
Pyre-Born Scavenger 1RR
Creature - Human Rogue
Haste, Soar
"There you stand/so proud and tall/but you'll soon learn/that all things fall"
-Pyre Nursery Rhyme
Red cloud have an ability that triggers when the card or creature goes to the graveyard or something like that.
You can also have a hoard enabler like this:
Burial of Bones 1BBB
Enchantment (R)
Whenever you(or "a player") discards a card, you(or "that player) may put that card on the bottom of your(or "their") library.
Bones of the fallen of Ezuth are not tossed into graves, but instead in the Abyss.
While a cool card, I don't know if I have allocated design space for this sort of effect. The library is still my main focus at this point, and although I know it can become limiting, I'm going to try building from the ground up and use the themes I have already constructed.
I am especially unsure about the flying part, UB will basicially have no flying unless there was an iconic leviathan, or granted, other smaller creatures which would make sense within the realm of an underground network of caverns and sea.
Pretty good, definitely usable, I think the wording is still slightly off - what if there's no other flying creatures and there's no +1/+1 counter on it anymore?
Yes, up to a point, and its also a good idea of what red should be doing within this world. But I'm pretty certain I wouldn't want to give any red creatures Soar (perhaps Dragons, but only Dragons, and thats really pushing it). An amusing sidenote, Pyre and Nursery should not ever be next to each other.
How does that trigger Hoard? I've looked at it a few times and it still doesn't click? Elaborate please! But super flavour text, might change it to the Hollow instead, will see.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
I like where you're going with this design, but the second ability has anti-synergy with Soar as a mechanic. You would often find yourself debating between letting your flyers die and using this ability to save them. Perhaps you'd want to try something like, "Remove three +1/+1 counters from among creatures you control: Put a 1/1 white and blue Bird creature token with flying into play." If you wanted, you could reduce the cost two just two counters and make the Bird token legendary, but that might be too clunky.
Hoard is a very interesting ability, but I think it would make more flavor sense if the ability triggered when the card with Hoard is put on the bottom, kind of like Madness. This might be overly parasitic with some of the current themes, but it's worth thinking about.
I've always liked the "red cares about opponents' hand size" mechanic, even though very few real cards have explored this design space. If this tickles your fancy, I'm sure you could do a lot with it.
I think it's supposed to read, "Whenever a player would discard a card, he or she may put that card on the bottom of his or her library instead."
There are three cards that care about feather counters:
Kangee, Aerie Keeper (Probably the card you were thinking of.)
Soulcatchers' Aerie
Aven Mimeomancer
Your idea actually makes sense, because this allows Soar to be relevant on noncreature permanents.
Usher of Birds would have:
Soar (Whenever a creature with flying is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on ~.)
Flying
~ gets +1/+1 for each feather counter on ~.
This allows a "new" version of Soulcatchers' Aerie to have this text:
Soar (Whenever a creature with flying is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on ~.)
Creatures with soar get +1/+1 for each feather counter on ~.
You could also have cards with soar that do things other than pump:
Soar (Whenever a creature with flying is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on ~.)
Removea feather counter from ~: Target creature with soar gains shroud until end of turn.
Thoughts, kiwoli?
Yes, it was Kangee. And you very thouroughly explained the point I was kinda trying to, but failing at, getting at.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
While it is a good concept (I swear I've read a thread or two on it before) I never really seemed to like it. Flying should be as simple a mechanic as it gets, adding a number at the end increases the complexity and seems to go against the beauty of such a design. I'm also unsure how intuitive it is, does 1 mean its flying the highest or does 10 mean its flying the highest? I know that's the function of reminder text, but reminder text for flying is overkill to me.
Thank you for taking the time to do that, it really helps in the motivation department.
Very true about the mechanics, while it may not be intentional, it may make a little more sense in the story of the plane (to a certain degree). Non of the levels are actually aligned with each other. Inhabitants from The Oasis to the Abyss are all trying to "move up in the world", one level at a time. Having something that your enemy can't benefit from is like the secret weapon of each level - having said that, some of it still successfully crossed-over in Shards. It'll require some considerate effort and brainpower to tie them together, not undo-able but as always will require help from fellow forumers. I was hoping that the set-wide mechanic may help tie it all together but I have not designed those cards as yet.
I've noted down in my mind to change Abundance to "as long as there are ten or more lands on the battlefield" so it doesn't require you to have more lands than your opponent (although it will obviously help) Not quite the same as controlling five lands, but close, and this way the effects can be slightly more powerful as well as making land destruction (Pyre and/or Hollow) viable as a counter to Oasis.
Hoard was rightly inspired by Madness, but I didn't want it to feel too familiar, not the mention a lack of solid creativity. But on second thoughts it probably works out better if the discard clause was replaced with "card to the bottom of your library". And on this thought, Would it be prudent to make this a set-wide mechanic as all colours will interact with this?
Yea, that makes sense for Pyre, red is always about here and now so it should mess with the library the least out of all the colours. And the next best thing is what's in front of you - will make red cards a priority for the moment.
Also @AI, very cool ideas with Soar, definitely will be implemented. Out of the whole set, The Heaven's seem to be the most defined and best designed at the moment. It might not be a bad idea to set a majority of that level into concrete first before tackling the rest.
Heaven's Aerie is a tricky one, I originally envisioned it to be a card that would allow for some complex gameplay and do exactly what you said about debating whether to let things die or use the ability - which may actually be the same thing because sacrificing one or two might save all your other creatures. Your point of anti-synergy also makes sense however, and although I'm a fan of tokens, three counters for a 1/1 flying is a pretty hefty price most of the time. This card definitely warrants more discussion though, so debate away!
P.S. Soulcather's Aerie will be a functional reprint, and the last suggested card from AI will also see it into this set (99% certain about this). I'll leave that particular legend out but make another one - may be in the vein of Aerie Mystics as I really liked that card.
I'm glad you liked the idea of feather counters. Kangee and Aven Mimeomancer are both great cards in my opinion, and a set like this would be the perfect place to let them, and cards like them, shine. I'm excited to see your insane birds.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH