Hey, I've been thinking about a fun game variant I want to play with some friends that involves a lot of randomness (done with custom software), but I'm unsure about the rulings for some mechanics to make them work.
Utopia Training Grounds X - Randomly select a creature card with converted mana cost that is lesser or equal to X. Create a copy of that card. You may cast the copy this turn without paying it's mana cost. Casting the copy this way counts as casting it from the hand.
Corrupted City 0, Choose any number - Randomly select a permanent card with converted mana cost that is lesser or equal to the chosen number. Create a copy of that card and put it in your hand. The copy remains in the hand until it is played, discarded or exiled.
I have extra rules for the random part, but in this thread my main question is the part about copies and the hand. I know that its normally not possible and that copies can only exist on the stack and the battlefield, but when stated directly it should overwrite the normal rules, does it?
So - not withstanding Alchemy on Arena - a copy of a card can only exist on the battlefield or on the stack since it is not a physical item, so corrupted city doesn't work as written.
Utopia training grounds is almost Momir Vig format, where the only issue of doing it in paper is finding the randomized creature efficiently. Note that Momir requires the discard of a card and activates at sorcery speed, so your version is significantly stronger.
The general knock against doing this kinda thing in paper is that tracking multiple randomized permanents with any kind of tokens makes understanding the board state very difficult. Unless you plan to quickly write out proxies for each card generated, it will be difficult to track what each does as the game goes more than a couple of turns.
The general knock against doing this kinda thing in paper is that tracking multiple randomized permanents with any kind of tokens makes understanding the board state very difficult. Unless you plan to quickly write out proxies for each card generated, it will be difficult to track what each does as the game goes more than a couple of turns.
Yeah that's true. I plan to program a helping software (website/app) to help randomizing and to keep track of the current cards.
When rules state that copies can only exist on the battlefield or the stack, would it still work with the golden rule (101.1), that card rules have more priority than the general rules? How would I need to word it then?
Or would it be a better idea to introduce a new type of thing then? I have custom rules with custom card types already, so it wouldn't be too bad to add more there. Just curious on how it would be possible to handle it at all
707.10a If a copy of a spell is in a zone other than the stack, it ceases to exist. If a copy of a card is
in any zone other than the stack or the battlefield, it ceases to exist. These are state-based
actions. See rule 704.
111.7. A token that’s in a zone other than the battlefield ceases to exist. This is a state-based action; see
rule 704.
This is why the arena cards use a new keyword(Conjure) which creates an actual card, not a token. Though with how you've limited the casting ability of the card it may not work for you.
Utopia Training Grounds, Momir Vig is a thing. Your effect is close but significantly different. Do you actually want it to be that different? If so what parts do you want to keep? Having to cast the card after you make a copy. Looking at "Or less" when searching mana value. These are the two main differences.
Corrupted City, this is much closer to conjure as used on Arena. Are you sure you want them to stop existing once in the graveyard ect? Also, the choose a number with the 0 cost and the "or less" means there's not much reason to ever choose anything other than the highest you want.
Cleaning up both cards we get Utopia Training Grounds X: Conjure a card with mana value X or less into your hard. Exile it at end of turn. Corrupted City 0: Conjure a permanent card into your hand.
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Utopia Training Grounds
X - Randomly select a creature card with converted mana cost that is lesser or equal to X. Create a copy of that card. You may cast the copy this turn without paying it's mana cost. Casting the copy this way counts as casting it from the hand.
Corrupted City
0, Choose any number - Randomly select a permanent card with converted mana cost that is lesser or equal to the chosen number. Create a copy of that card and put it in your hand. The copy remains in the hand until it is played, discarded or exiled.
I have extra rules for the random part, but in this thread my main question is the part about copies and the hand. I know that its normally not possible and that copies can only exist on the stack and the battlefield, but when stated directly it should overwrite the normal rules, does it?
Utopia training grounds is almost Momir Vig format, where the only issue of doing it in paper is finding the randomized creature efficiently. Note that Momir requires the discard of a card and activates at sorcery speed, so your version is significantly stronger.
The general knock against doing this kinda thing in paper is that tracking multiple randomized permanents with any kind of tokens makes understanding the board state very difficult. Unless you plan to quickly write out proxies for each card generated, it will be difficult to track what each does as the game goes more than a couple of turns.
Yeah that's true. I plan to program a helping software (website/app) to help randomizing and to keep track of the current cards.
When rules state that copies can only exist on the battlefield or the stack, would it still work with the golden rule (101.1), that card rules have more priority than the general rules? How would I need to word it then?
Or would it be a better idea to introduce a new type of thing then? I have custom rules with custom card types already, so it wouldn't be too bad to add more there. Just curious on how it would be possible to handle it at all
Utopia Training Grounds, Momir Vig is a thing. Your effect is close but significantly different. Do you actually want it to be that different? If so what parts do you want to keep? Having to cast the card after you make a copy. Looking at "Or less" when searching mana value. These are the two main differences.
Corrupted City, this is much closer to conjure as used on Arena. Are you sure you want them to stop existing once in the graveyard ect? Also, the choose a number with the 0 cost and the "or less" means there's not much reason to ever choose anything other than the highest you want.
Cleaning up both cards we get
Utopia Training Grounds
X: Conjure a card with mana value X or less into your hard. Exile it at end of turn.
Corrupted City
0: Conjure a permanent card into your hand.