MTG Salvation

Um, I'm sorry to have to say this but Fadprint is a mess:

Firstly I don't like the name - does that mean anything at all?

Next, let's see this example:

Sickling 3G
Trample
Fadprint 3 - Graveyard
5/5

So, this is basically much worse Fading. Has it flavor? No. Is it useful? Don't think so. Moreover I don't think it's a good idea to use keyword "imprint" in the rules.

No offence but I believe this whole idea is just too random with no design ground - it just uses fading and imprint in combination to create something not amazing...

But since the policy of this workshop seems to accept all submissions, I will see you by the next mechanic in the queue.

Sorry for being such a naysayer.

I agree with Charmer on all accounts. Perhaps it could be salvaged if the ZONE was a constant. Like cards in your hand or Library, low and high costs respectivily. I also think it could be up to that many cards, so you could still play it for a lesser effect.
The name definitly needs to be changed, Fadprint sounds like a playtest name for it.
Heres a rules entry for what I'm suggesting

Intelligence Bound N (When this card comes into play remove up to N cards from your hand. At the beginning of your upkeep, return a card imprinted on this card to your hand. If you can't, sacrifice this card.)

Mind Siphon :symb::symb:
Enchantment
Intelligence Bound X, Where X is the number of cards in your hand.
At the beginning of your upkeep, target opponent with less cards in hand than you discards a card. If they do, you draw a card.
Why learn new things when others already have?

Thoughts?
I still haven't been added to the Queue...

Here's my idea, to add to the end of the Queue:

Funnel X- Effect (When this spell resolves, instead of putting it into your graveyard, you may remove it and the top X cards of your library from the game. If you do, effect.)

For example:

Desperation Fireball 3R
Instant
Desperation Fireball deals 4 damage to target creature or player.
Funnel 3- Desperation Fireball deals 3 damage to target creature or player. (When Desperation Fireball spell resolves, instead of putting it into your graveyard, you may remove it and the top 3 cards of your library from the game. If you do, Desperation Fireball deals 3 damage to target creature or player.)

:::Comments on Fadprint:::
I dont really understand what this thing is trying to accomplish. Is it trying to be a fading-ish card? If so, it seems that its a bit too com-plicated for that. Is it trying to limit when it could come into play?

I'd revise it to this:

Fadprint N - Zone (Fadprint N - ZONE (When this card comes into play remove N cards from ZONE or sacrifice this. At the beginning of your upkeep, return a card imprinted on this card to zone. If you can't, sacrifice this card.)

OR

Fadprint N - Zone (Fadprint N - ZONE (When this card comes into play remove up to N cards from ZONE or sacrifice this. At the beginning of your upkeep, return a card imprinted on this card to zone. If you can't, sacrifice this card.)

This way, it is defined what happens if removing N cards is not possible...
I kinda like the ability, but it just seems so narrow...

I also hate the name... Maybe something like "draining"?




I wish to add this to the end of the Queue:

: Transport Y: (Transport target creature. You may transport up to Y creatures. Transport and transported creatures band. Play this ability any time you could play a sorcery.)

::EXAMPLE::
Imperial Steam Tank -
Artifact Creature - Machine
: Transport 2
~ gets +2/+0 for each creature transported.
~ cannot attack unless transporting at least one creature.
1/6

It's like equipment, only the creatures inside attack along with the vehicle and the "equipment" can "equip" multiple things...

Fadprint has some interesting implications when it affects the library: You RFG three cards, then return them on top of your library in the order that you want to play them. This is a very slow alternative to scry, but does make you less vulnerable to milling. (Countless are the times Le Chat has enjoyed milling someone after they scryed to get their best card on top of their library.)

Imprinting the cards would seem to clutter up the mechanic, but would allow the permanent to do something flavorful -- ie, "<THIS> gets +1/+1 for each card fadprinted on it", which makes it rather similar to Rusting Golem. However, the flavor-intersection between this and zone manipulation seems vanishingly narrow.

Generally speaking, keyworded mechanics should only have one variable (witness every named mechanic so far). Each zone should have its "fadprint", leaving the only variable the number of cards RFGd. Also, "libraryprint" and "graveyardprint" just don't cut it; "handprint" will generates more giggles than appreciative glances, and "in play-x" seems clunky no matter what you append to it.

The name is obviously a barrier to many people. It means nothing (or seems to mean nothing; essentially the same thing), and so it's difficult to determine the flavor of the mechanic. Le Chat suggests limiting it just the library:

Reserve X (When this enters play, remove the top X cards of your library from the game. These cards are 'reserved by this'. At the beginning of each upkeep, put one card removed from the game this way on top of your library. If you can't, sacrifice this.)

I think this can come to a vote. I for one think its a fantastic ability, like Fading done right. Limiting it to the Library makes it pretty dangerous. Not only are you Tutoring every turn, your also getting an effect with it. Kinda strong.

So I suggest the following.
Le Chat's Suggestion:
Reserve X (When this enters play, remove the top X cards of your library from the game. These cards are 'reserved by this'. At the beginning of each upkeep, put one card removed from the game this way on top of your library. If you can't, sacrifice this.)

Tinkered Fadprint: The "Fadprint" Number should be a set one if it's could be in multiple Zones.
Embroider {Zone} (Embroider ZONE: When this card comes into play remove up to 6 cards from ZONE you own. At the beginning of your upkeep, return a card removed from the game with ~ to that zone. If you can't, sacrifice this card.)
This would allow for crazy cards like...

Emblem of Protection :symw::symw:
Enchantment- Aura
Enchant Permanent
You may play ~ any time you could play an instant.
Enchanted Permanent gains Protection from all Colors, this effect doesn't remove ~.
Embroider Stack (Reminder text.)

I see the flavor pretty easily too, for both abilities as well. The spell in question is so powerful that it needs magical energy from other magical items be it an Enchantment or some sort of Sorcery. It slowly looses this energy and dissapears. Art would make it much clearer.

So which do you prefer?

Oh, since you tuned Fadprint into Reserve I have some comments after all. It's still too much like Fading, I suggest we make the mechanic even more useful and make the sacrifice optional, like:

At the beginning of each upkeep, you may put one card removed from the game by ~this~ on top of your library. If you don't, sacrifice this.

And I believe that These cards are 'reserved by this'. clause is redundand as a part of ruling.

Also I suggest better name, Reserve is meh, IMO. What about Divine or Augur? That would make the mechanic more suitable for non-creatures flavorwise which would also distinguish it from Fading some more, right?

Le Chat is going to PM Mr. T (who submitted Fadprint) and solicit his input.

Mr. T has not responded to PMs (grr), so we'll deal with Fadprint and move on.

Le Chat suggested "reserve" since it's a little like reserving a book at the library -- you set it aside so no one else can borrow it, and get to look at it later. It could also be seen as a reserve of energy that the permanent depletes over time.

Reserve X (As this enters play, remove the top X cards of your library from the game. At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, put one card removed from the game this way on top of your library. If you don't, sacrifice <THIS>.)

Le Chat will have to muck about to come up with CompRules for this. If anyone wants to volunteer, feel free!

.

Let's try and get some more submissions for the Mechanics Workshop.

Outrun - existing mechanic also known as Supertrample
Rulings: You may have ~this~ deal its combat damage to defending player as though it weren't blocked

In creating a fantasy set I have been working on, I decided to use the term Vigor as it fits well, since it would work for small and beefy critters.

Vigor (You may have this creature deal its combat damage to defending player as though it weren't blocked).

Also, I have a few other terms, and a few modified/new mechanics:

Havoc - X (This creature deals X damage to each attacking and blocking creature during the assign damage phase.)

This is an idea I got from the Laccolith cards in Nemesis and from the big Trolls in LOTR movies.

Quickness (This creature may only be blocked by creatures with flying or quickness).

This is the old Elvish Riders ability, except that other 'Riders' would be able to block it as well as flying creatures.

Reserve X (As this enters play, remove the top X cards of your library from the game. At the beginning of your upkeep, put one card removed from the game this way on top of your library. If you don't, sacrifice <THIS>.) Slightly shorter. I think this is fine. On to Growth.

Growth X - (At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are less than X growth counters on this, you may put a Growth counter on this.)

Stax said it should function similar to fading, not in a negitive way though. His example was this

Treefolk Warrior 1GG
Creature - Treefolk
Growth 2
Remove a Growth counter from ~: ~ gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
1/3

I see no glaring problems with the ability. It plays fine, but its hard to fit it outside green. Pretty much every ability is shared, with another color.
Perhaps getting a growth counter, should be the same as a +1/+1 counter? Then you could move it into Red and White as training.

Example:

Eager Trainee :symw::symw:
Creature- Human Soldier
Growth 3
~ gets +1/+1 for each growth counter on it.
1/1

Just a few last notes about Fadprint/Reserve: If the reserve creature changes control, the cards need to be returned to that card's owner's library, not its current controller's. The activated-ability half of it still triggers on its current controller's upkeep.

Multiple reserve abilities would each create their own "reserve" of cards to put back, and when one is depleted, the creature needs to be sacrificed. This would mean that the other cards are permanently RFGd.

Lastly, if a creature gains reserve, but a previous ability of that creature RFGd cards, only cards RFGd by the reserve ability can be put back on top of the library by it. (That's an Volrath's Shapeshifter hack, there.)

.

Growth is pretty simple, but can allow for some complex effects:

"If ~ has exactly one counter ... If ~ has exactly two counters ..."
"As long as ~ has three or more growth counters..."
"Remove a growth counter from ~:"

And so on. Having the growth counter be optional is .. interesting, but allows for some flavorful interaction. Having any ability require more than three growth counters more or less makes it mean "Ignore this ability" (Doubling Season nonwithstanding.)

Anyone have interesting cards using this mechanic?

I apologize for posting more than one mechanic. Anyways, the question of what to name the "outrun" mechanic was still in the air so what does everyone think of "Vigor" as the name for it?

Darkwood Wurm 3BG
Creature - Wurm
Trample, Fear,
Growth 2
(You may discard a card from your hand that shares a color with this creature to give it +2/+2 until end of turn. You may use this ability only once each turn.)
3/2

Barbarian Hulk 3RRR
Creature - Giant Barbarian
Haste,
Growth 3
(This creature comes into play with 3 growth counters on it. Whenever a creature comes into play under this card's controller, remove a growth counter from ~ and put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)
3/3

Here's a few different version possibilities on the Growth mechanic.

Growth seems interesting, since it can cover a huge range of possible effects with very little text (this cannot attack unless there are X or more growth counters on it, remove a growth counter: untap, +1/-1 for each growth counter, et al)

3RR
Creature -- Elemental
Growth 4
~ gets +1/-1 for each growth counter on it.
3/5

GGG
Creature -- Elemental
Growth 3
As long as there are exactly 2 Growth counters on ~, it gets +5/+5 and gains trample.
2/2

Won't reserve only look at cards RFG'd by abilities intrinsic to the card anyway, now? (or is that what you meant?)

I remember those old blue "tide counter" cards like Tidal Influence that closely mirrors what this is doing with a remove-all clause in the end.

Tidal Card - :symu::symu:
Growth 3
This gets -1/-1 for each growth counter on it.
Whenever this would get 3 growth counters, remove all growth counters from it instead.
3/3

En lieu of this, I propose a name change from "Growth" to "Accumulate" or something of the like. Just so it won't be so weird when "Growth" counters actually diminish a creature.

First off, +1/-1 and -1/-1 permanent counters are no longer used officially, I suggest we stick with that.

Next thing is I believe we should care more for the coolness of mechanic names. I don't like Reserve, it just sounds too technical and flavorless, but it seems that my suggestions for it didn't get any attention.

And pardon my saying so, but I don't like Growth either. It's just meh.
My suggestion for it would be Bloom as it is an antonym to "fade", by the way (I've looked it up). Anyone to second that?

@Absolutionis: Your tidal card is kind of crossbreed between homarids and fading. I think Bloom mechanic (yeah, I choose to call it like that if you don't mind ) should indicate growth in some way. And after all when plague blooms or tumor grows, then everyone expects diminishment, right?

Quote from charmer »

@Absolutionis: Your tidal card is kind of crossbreed between homarids and fading. I think Bloom mechanic (yeah, I choose to call it like that if you don't mind ) should indicate growth in some way. And after all when plague blooms or tumor grows, then everyone expects diminishment, right?

Nice call, I agree that the antonym to "fading" should be used.
A growing tumor or growing tide is still growing even if it diminishes its host or coast.

However, the word "bloom" sounds too green and nature-like.

Using a thesaurus, the following seem to be valid words:

Growth (Yes, "grow" is an antonym to "fade")
Flourishing
Developing
Thriving
Expanding

Honestly, I think "Growing" is the best keyword.
Akin to "fading", I think an -ing is best

If we call it growing, then the mechanic can generate growth counters, which perfectly parallels fading. And where possible, we should use the name suggested by the contributor; it's easier to look up a submission that way.

There are any number of directions Growth could be taken in. Le Chat found when she was developing her Fury set (which used an open-ended accumulator mechanic) that it made more sense to give the counters some reason for being there, other than marking turns the creature had been in play. JimTheMighty's :symg::symg::symg: Elemental looks a lot more interesting if there were a cost to remove a counter from it, allowing your opponent to pin it down or (once you had gotten past two counters) giving you a way to beef it up. That ability can be specific to each card, however.

502.GRO. Growth.

502.GROa "Growth" is a static ability of permanents. “Growth N” means “At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card has less than N growth counters on it, put a growth counter on it.”

502.GROb Multiple instances of growth are cumulative.

Quote from Le Chat »

If we call it growing, then the mechanic can generate growth counters, which perfectly parallels fading. And where possible, we should use the name suggested by the contributor; it's easier to look up a submission that way.

There are any number of directions Growth could be taken in. Le Chat found when she was developing her Fury set (which used an open-ended accumulator mechanic) that it made more sense to give the counters some reason for being there, other than marking turns the creature had been in play. JimTheMighty's :symg::symg::symg: Elemental looks a lot more interesting if there were a cost to remove a counter from it, allowing your opponent to pin it down or (once you had gotten past two counters) giving you a way to beef it up. That ability can be specific to each card, however.

502.GRO. Growth.

502.GROa "Growth" is a static ability of permanents. “Growth N” means “At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card has less than N growth counters on it, put a growth counter on it.”

502.GROb Multiple instances of growth are cumulative.

I don't get it... You agreed with me saying that "Growing" is a better keyword, yet then you revert back to calling it "growth"... You lost me there...

....slippery paws?

Wheee, glad you guys like the mechanic (I always did like the idea of limited, reverse fading). I actually like what you mentioned, Le Chat, of a removal cost for some cards so your opponent can mess with a creature for a price a la:

Ape Warrior 1GG
Creature - Ape Soldier
Growth 2
~ gets +1/+1 for each growth counter on ~.
2: Remove a growth counter from ~. Any player may play this ability.
The evolution of man was a delicate process, easily halted.
2/2

Are we calling it Growth with Growth counters, Growing with Growth counters, what?

I'm pretty sure it's Growing (like Fading) with Growth counters.

Quote from void_nothing »

I'm pretty sure it's Growing (like Fading) with Growth counters.

Yeah, I say "Growing" with Growth counters as well

Other than that, I dont think the mechanic has anything else to add or improve upon...

And you think

Quote from Le Chat »

502.GRO. Growth.

502.GROa "Growth" is a static ability of permanents. “Growth N” means “At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card has less than N growth counters on it, put a growth counter on it.”

502.GROb Multiple instances of growth are cumulative.

Is a sufficient rules entry? Just asking.