F AroundR Sorcery
Each player discards a card at random or sacrifices a nonland permanent.
// Detonate 1(B/R)(R/W)(You may cast both faces of this card for its Detonate cost. If you do, stack the front face overtop the back face.)
Find OutU Instant
Choose one and each opponent gets the other—
• You may cast an instant or sorcery card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. Exile that card when it resolves.
• Untap up to two target lands you control.
EDIT: Had to concede on the hybrid colors. There's no way to get everything onto the canvas like that. Compromise is legendarily the only absolute thing in life; and it proves itself king once again. I retained the hybrid cost in the Detonate ability because I think it's incredibly dynamic. You can cast this as a regular multicolor spell in black and white, granting it versatility across another entire plane.
Here's a take on double-sided cards for double-faced cards instead. I gave it a new keyword since we're working with a new template, this was supposed to be a take on Fuse, but I suppose Fuse could also take place on this as the new double-sided cards? I do feel it's going to genuinely better to have its own cost though, since it prevents having to overcost the original spells to make up the difference, which is something I've always loathed about double-sided cards.
As for Find Out, I had conceived a functionality that simply allow you to choose one, and then target opponent (or even each opponent) gets the other effect. This way is just a little more suspenseful.
If we wanted to be more true to the original meme, I think that F Around would probably want to be an X spell. It would then have to become [Each player draws X cards, then discards X cards at random and/or sacrifices X permanents]. Find Out would be anti-climatic to be an X spell, so it would just want to stay as it is. That would make a neat rebound for the massive F Around; as it already was intended to be.
We could also give Find Out no mana cost for extra suspense, so that the only way to get it is through Detonate. That might be overzealous though in how it limits interactivity.
F Around Sorcery
Each player discards a card at random or sacrifices a nonland permanent.
// Detonate 1(You may cast this spell for its Detonate cost. If you do, copy the back face and cast it without paying its mana cost. Place that spell under this one on the stack.)
Find Out Instant
Flip a coin and have an opponent call it. The player that wins may cast an instant or sorcery card with converted mana cost 3 or less from his or her graveyard without paying its mana cost. The other player may untap up to two lands he or she controls.
Though I've rarely vocalised it, I've occasionally questioned your grasp of the English language. I must do so once more. Do you know the meaning of the idium "F around and find out"? Cause these designs don't evoke that concept at all. The most common interpretation is take risks and suffer the consequences.
Moving on, your use of hybrid is once again antithetical to its purpose.
The nonsense of an opponent calling the coin flip complicates the spell for no gain.
There's no synergy between these effects. Look at the fuse cards. Each one is designed so that the fuse ability complements the two halfs. This is just stapled onto two completely different cards that wouldn't even want to be played in the same deck.
The effects in your coin flip are radically different in power level and impossible to plan around.
Random discard is more powerful than non random discard and mist be costed appropriately.
The reason split cards are costed more than a normal card is because of the value in adding both cards to your deck; doubly so for fuse that adds the value of casting the second card. Rather than adress this issue you've made a work around that only addresses one of the issues while ignoring the more important one.
Possibly the worst coherent card you've ever designed. It's not even worth a 0/10. It's like being asked 2+2 and responding "did you know taxonomically there's no such thing as trees."
If you discard a card with converted mana cost 3 or less from the first effect, can you not then cast it with the second effect?
That's synergy.
Additionally, F Around would open up ground to run Crack the Earth in a split with it. While serving as a brackish version of the former, by first giving the opponent an option to discard instead, and second only effecting nonland permanents for sacrifice. Each opponent discarding a card at random is not overcosted at one mana. If you are suggesting it should cost 2, that would be appropriately costed for the bulk bin. Even if it was [Target player discards a card at random] for one mana, it would just be a softened version of Hymn to Tourach; where losing the volume hardly justifies the card's place in the deck over selective/targetable removal.
For the general utility of the two effects, and the intuitive hybrid color combinations, there's a myriad of decks that could find utility for either or face of the card. One of the adaptations I am seeing though, that would likely be necessary to this, is that the second effect needs to allow the casting player to choose the effect they want and then give each opponent the other. The double-faced nature of this effect wants to dare players to challenge themselves for what they're doing. I love that about it most, and it couldn't exist without that element.
Detonate might be re-workable as: (You may cast both faces of this card for its Detonate cost. If you do, stack the front face overtop the back face.)
I think another adaption moving forward for this will be to switch up the colors for the Detonate cost. I originally wanted red at the center, and I think it really needs that; despite the current meaning was supposed to symbolize that it's good for someone no matter what the outcome.
If you discard a card with converted mana cost 3 or less from the first effect, can you not then cast it with the second effect?
That's synergy.
Except the discard is random, so you can't plan on discarding the card you want to cast with the other half.
Additionally, F Around would open up ground to run Crack the Earth in a split with it.
Except that Crack the Earth is a terrible card, so no one would want to run 1 of them, let alone multiples of it.
... and the intuitive hybrid color combinations ...
Your hybrid version makes no sense. Hybrid cards should work as an card if printed with any of the individual possible casting costs, and 1BW to cast an instant or sorcery from a graveyard isn't anywhere close to in color for that combination.
Detonate might be re-workable as: (You may cast both faces of this card for its Detonate cost. If you do, stack the front face overtop the back face.)
Basically, you've mad an overly complicated Fuse card. There's no reason for this to be a DFC when both halves are instant/sorcery cards; MDFCs are only needed when at least one side is a permanent.
I think another adaption moving forward for this will be to switch up the colors for the Detonate cost. I originally wanted red at the center, and I think it really needs that; despite the current meaning was supposed to symbolize that it's good for someone no matter what the outcome.
Again, it doesn't make sense unless all casting costs/modes are in color and 1RR with the untap 2 lands isn't in color for red.
Despite the multiple problems that still exist I'm just going to focus on one thing. An effect can be worth more than 1 mana but less than 2 mana. That doesn't make it ok to put at 1 mana.
Black legendarily has Yawgmoth's Will and white legendarily has CMC range limited access across the board (including the graveyard); Serra Paragon // Sun Titan. This effect would completely fall into those colors.
Reminder that it would cost you 3 mana to untap 2 lands. That's not intuitive to ramp in any of the Detonate colors, with the exception of Urza's set (non-colored) and Serra's Sanctum. In blue, there's just Tolarian Academy; which isn't really doing anything Twiddle or Deserted Temple doesn't already do until you include Urza's set with it; but that would take into the mid-game scene to realize. To preserve the balance, it has to retain this open source effect, so that an opponent may untap these lands if they have them, and get this effect. Also because basic lands are too narrow abroad, and limited it to that would limit the application of the design terribly; restricting play options in a very undesirable way.
Black legendarily has Yawgmoth's Will and white legendarily has CMC range limited access across the board (including the graveyard); Serra Paragon // Sun Titan. This effect would completely fall into those colors.
A single card from 25 years ago isn’t a precedent for an ability to be in a color, and on all your white examples you’ll notice that they all specify returning either creatures or permanents. If you are going cite a precedent, it needs to interact with instants and sorceries.
Reminder that it would cost you 3 mana to untap 2 lands. That's not intuitive to ramp in any of the Detonate colors, with the exception of ]Urza's set (non-colored) and Serra's Sanctum. In blue, there's just Tolarian Academy; which isn't really doing anything Twiddle or Deserted Temple doesn't already do until you include Urza's set with it; but that would take into the mid-game scene to realize. To preserve the balance, it has to retain this open source effect, so that an opponent may untap these lands if they have them, and get this effect. Also because basic lands are too narrow abroad, and limited it to that would limit the application of the design terribly; restricting play options in a very undesirable way.
Untapping lands is a blue and green ability, so based on the different modes available it could reasonably have a “detonate” cost that is B/U or R/U. However, you try to be to cute with the multiple different hybrids and end up with it being able to be used in color combinations that it doesn’t fit.
You realize you are basically confessing that the color pie changes and adapts over time, but then are denying the application of doing so.
New levels achieved daily.
Magus of the Will suggests the domain still exists today by the way.
I don't think there's anything to be added from here. I'll let you both get back to Arena to F Around and catch up.
No, I’m pointing out that the color pie was ill defined in the games early years and, while there are things that change over time, but Black/White casting instants or sorceries from the graveyard and red untapping lands are not those changes.
I won't comment on the card mechanics, but I really don't think WotC would print a card named 'F Around'. You've sanitised it, but even in Un-, silver border, acorn land, I think it's still a step too far.
I don't know if they'd ever do split cards with the same first half and different second halves, but you could have Risk // Reward (which I think fits the card) or Risk // Consequences (which I think fits the flavour), maybe?
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"Did you think to kill me? There's no flesh and blood within this cloak to kill. There is only an idea. Ideas are bulletproof." - V, V for Vendetta. Alan Moore
I won't comment on the card mechanics, but I really don't think WotC would print a card named 'F Around'. You've sanitised it, but even in Un-, silver border, acorn land, I think it's still a step too far.
"Fool Around" would work within WOTC's PG spectrum and still maintain the original flavor.
I won't comment on the card mechanics, but I really don't think WotC would print a card named 'F Around'. You've sanitised it, but even in Un-, silver border, acorn land, I think it's still a step too far.
"Fool Around" would work within WOTC's PG spectrum and still maintain the original flavor.
I like that. Cute fix.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Did you think to kill me? There's no flesh and blood within this cloak to kill. There is only an idea. Ideas are bulletproof." - V, V for Vendetta. Alan Moore
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Sorcery
Each player discards a card at random or sacrifices a nonland permanent.
// Detonate 1(B/R)(R/W) (You may cast both faces of this card for its Detonate cost. If you do, stack the front face overtop the back face.)
Find Out U
Instant
Choose one and each opponent gets the other—
• You may cast an instant or sorcery card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. Exile that card when it resolves.
• Untap up to two target lands you control.
EDIT: Had to concede on the hybrid colors. There's no way to get everything onto the canvas like that. Compromise is legendarily the only absolute thing in life; and it proves itself king once again. I retained the hybrid cost in the Detonate ability because I think it's incredibly dynamic. You can cast this as a regular multicolor spell in black and white, granting it versatility across another entire plane.
Here's a take on double-sided cards for double-faced cards instead. I gave it a new keyword since we're working with a new template, this was supposed to be a take on Fuse, but I suppose Fuse could also take place on this as the new double-sided cards? I do feel it's going to genuinely better to have its own cost though, since it prevents having to overcost the original spells to make up the difference, which is something I've always loathed about double-sided cards.
As for Find Out, I had conceived a functionality that simply allow you to choose one, and then target opponent (or even each opponent) gets the other effect. This way is just a little more suspenseful.
If we wanted to be more true to the original meme, I think that F Around would probably want to be an X spell. It would then have to become [Each player draws X cards, then discards X cards at random and/or sacrifices X permanents]. Find Out would be anti-climatic to be an X spell, so it would just want to stay as it is. That would make a neat rebound for the massive F Around; as it already was intended to be.
We could also give Find Out no mana cost for extra suspense, so that the only way to get it is through Detonate. That might be overzealous though in how it limits interactivity.
Sorcery
Each player discards a card at random or sacrifices a nonland permanent.
// Detonate 1
Find Out
Instant
Flip a coin and have an opponent call it. The player that wins may cast an instant or sorcery card with converted mana cost 3 or less from his or her graveyard without paying its mana cost. The other player may untap up to two lands he or she controls.
Moving on, your use of hybrid is once again antithetical to its purpose.
The nonsense of an opponent calling the coin flip complicates the spell for no gain.
There's no synergy between these effects. Look at the fuse cards. Each one is designed so that the fuse ability complements the two halfs. This is just stapled onto two completely different cards that wouldn't even want to be played in the same deck.
The effects in your coin flip are radically different in power level and impossible to plan around.
Random discard is more powerful than non random discard and mist be costed appropriately.
The reason split cards are costed more than a normal card is because of the value in adding both cards to your deck; doubly so for fuse that adds the value of casting the second card. Rather than adress this issue you've made a work around that only addresses one of the issues while ignoring the more important one.
Possibly the worst coherent card you've ever designed. It's not even worth a 0/10. It's like being asked 2+2 and responding "did you know taxonomically there's no such thing as trees."
That's synergy.
Additionally, F Around would open up ground to run Crack the Earth in a split with it. While serving as a brackish version of the former, by first giving the opponent an option to discard instead, and second only effecting nonland permanents for sacrifice. Each opponent discarding a card at random is not overcosted at one mana. If you are suggesting it should cost 2, that would be appropriately costed for the bulk bin. Even if it was [Target player discards a card at random] for one mana, it would just be a softened version of Hymn to Tourach; where losing the volume hardly justifies the card's place in the deck over selective/targetable removal.
For the general utility of the two effects, and the intuitive hybrid color combinations, there's a myriad of decks that could find utility for either or face of the card. One of the adaptations I am seeing though, that would likely be necessary to this, is that the second effect needs to allow the casting player to choose the effect they want and then give each opponent the other. The double-faced nature of this effect wants to dare players to challenge themselves for what they're doing. I love that about it most, and it couldn't exist without that element.
Detonate might be re-workable as: (You may cast both faces of this card for its Detonate cost. If you do, stack the front face overtop the back face.)
I think another adaption moving forward for this will be to switch up the colors for the Detonate cost. I originally wanted red at the center, and I think it really needs that; despite the current meaning was supposed to symbolize that it's good for someone no matter what the outcome.
EDIT: I'm not sure you understand the source meme, where the application of has become an idiom.
Source: https://youtube.com/shorts/WntjAM2wqF8?si=6oBEwlpdmXlcFK25
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StaffThat expression has been around since long before that guy posted that video.
Black legendarily has Yawgmoth's Will and white legendarily has CMC range limited access across the board (including the graveyard); Serra Paragon // Sun Titan. This effect would completely fall into those colors.
Reminder that it would cost you 3 mana to untap 2 lands. That's not intuitive to ramp in any of the Detonate colors, with the exception of Urza's set (non-colored) and Serra's Sanctum. In blue, there's just Tolarian Academy; which isn't really doing anything Twiddle or Deserted Temple doesn't already do until you include Urza's set with it; but that would take into the mid-game scene to realize. To preserve the balance, it has to retain this open source effect, so that an opponent may untap these lands if they have them, and get this effect. Also because basic lands are too narrow abroad, and limited it to that would limit the application of the design terribly; restricting play options in a very undesirable way.
A color interacting with card type is not precedent for interacting with different card type.
Your inability to break an effect isn't reason to break the color pie.
These are all color pie integrity mistakes that any competent designer should be able to recognize.
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StaffNew levels achieved daily.
Magus of the Will suggests the domain still exists today by the way.
I don't think there's anything to be added from here. I'll let you both get back to Arena to F Around and catch up.
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StaffUn-,silver border, acorn land, I think it's still a step too far.I don't know if they'd ever do split cards with the same first half and different second halves, but you could have Risk // Reward (which I think fits the card) or Risk // Consequences (which I think fits the flavour), maybe?
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StaffI like that. Cute fix.