Abu, Partner in CrimeR
Legendary Creature - Ape Rogue (R)
Human sidekick (If this creature or a legendary human you control would die, you may merge this under that human, or that human over this. The result loses sidekick.)
Whenever a legendary human rogue you control attacks, create a treasure token.
1/1
Sidekicks are like an extra life for legendary humans (unless it's a full board wipe.) And if it's the sidekick who would die, their ability may still survive under a legendary.
Abu would be good with Aladdin (who would be a human rogue) but if it saves another human, the resulting creature would be a human rogue, so the ability starts working. The sidekick ability is lost, however, so you couldn't keep piling up human cards together.
Replacement effects that try to replace something dying are problematic because they replace things like being sacrificed. I'd prefer "If this creature... would be destroyed" to make it similar to Regeneration and Totem Armor.
I think you also have to remove all damage from the saved Human, because otherwise it would immediately die again when SBA are checked and see a creature with lethal damage.
I don't think they are problematic, we have tons of "If x would die, exile it instead." Dying is simply a shortcut to "going from the battlefield to the graveyard" and that's the result of destruction or sacrifice, not part of the process.
Example:
Let's say Aladdin receives 5 damage (or is sacrificed.) Aladdin is destroyed (or is sacrificed) and this causes it to go to a graveyard. The replacement effect takes charge, and you merge Aladdin over Abu. The Aladdin object ceases to exist (and any damage on it) so Auras and Equipments also fall from it, and the Abu object suffers a change: now its name is Aladdin, and is a merged creature.
Let's say Aladdin receives 5 damage (or is sacrificed.) Aladdin is destroyed (or is sacrificed) and this causes it to go to a graveyard. The replacement effect takes charge, and you merge Aladdin over Abu. The Aladdin object ceases to exist (and any damage on it) so Auras and Equipments also fall from it, and the Abu object suffers a change: now its name is Aladdin, and is a merged creature.
This is incorrect. You worded the effect as a replacement effect, which replaces the action of Aladdin going to the graveyard. INSTEAD, it merges. The merged creature is not a new creature, so the damage remains on it.
Mmm, there is no currently rules for merging two battlefield objects, I assumed one that begins the merging would simply cease to exist (pending rules revision) to make it similar to the mend rules in mutate (which uses meld.) But you are right, it's ambiguous, both technically meld, so the prevailing object being the non-dying one is not explicit. Revision:
Human sidekick (If you control Abu and a legendary human, and only one of them would die, you may exile that card instead. Then meld it onto the other creature, with the human on top. It loses sidekick.)
This replacement effect does need to be worded like regenerate or totem armor. Dies specifically means a creature going to the graveyard from the battlefield after it has been destroyed in some way, so text that says "If X would die, exile it instead." affects permanents that have already been destroyed and are on their way to the graveyard, just changing their destination. Your ability as written want to cause the creatures to merge at the point where the target has already been destroyed and is in the process of changing zones, too late to actually be affected on the battlefield.
Meld specifically refers to transforming cards with half a card on their back sides like Gisela, the Broken Blade, so it wouldn't work here. The good news is there is already a keyword action "merge", mutate being an alternate casting cost that then causes the creature spell to merge with the target when it resolves, so the rules technology for that part of the effect already exists.
Lastly, control of the creature itself doesn't need to be spelled out, because you wouldn't be able to use the replacement ability if you didn't control the creature with sidekick in the first place.
So, the correct wording would be
Human sidekick (If a Human legendary creature you control would be destroyed, you may instead merge this creature with it and remove all damage from it. It loses sidekick.)
Abu wouldn't work the way you wanted too though with other humans, as a merged creature only has the creature types of the top creature, so it would either be an Ape Rogue or Human Whatever, but it wouldn't add Rogue to an already Human.
That said, the flavor is a little weird to have the creatures combine. Why does the "hero" get the sidekick's ability if the sidekick dies taking the bullet for him?
I would suggest the tweak "...instead merge this creature under it and..." That way the "hero" is always the base creature that stays around.
Right! I retract the ambiguity, one of the objects ceased to exist so it's clear which object was the 'merged' base (and right, I was confusing meld with merge.) I forgot only the top subtypes count, that's too bad. About your version, I still want to save Abu if it would be the one dying. The idea is that in a disney film, the protagonist saves the companion, or the companion saves the protagonist. It can only happen once, but it's not a sacrifice. Think Abu staying on Aladdin's shoulder from now on.
Here is a new version with your notes. I reworked the second ability so if it's Mulan who kept Abu on her shoulder, the ability starts working for her.
Abu, Partner in CrimeR
Legendary Creature - Ape (R)
Human sidekick (If you control Abu and a legendary human, and only one of them would die, you may instead merge it with the other. Keep the human on top. It loses sidekick.)
Whenever a legendary human you control attacks, if it's this creature or a rogue, create a treasure token.
1/1
You didn't fix the "would die" part of the text, and the "If you control Abu..." is still superfluous. You also do need to add the "remove all damage" text or it will just be destroyed immediately by state based effect again after merging.
The "if only one would be destroyed" part might be a problem for the rules - you can replace an instance of something being destroyed, but I'm honestly not sure if a replacement effect can check for that type of conditionality.
Here's how it needs to be templated
Abu, Partner in Crime R
Legendary Creature - Ape (R)
Human sidekick (If you control a legendary human and that creature or Abu would be destroyed, you may instead merge Abu underneath that creature and remove all combat damage from it. It loses sidekick.)
Whenever a legendary human you control attacks, if it's this creature or a rogue, create a treasure token.
This would allow the to survive an affect that would destroy them simultaneously like combat or wrath effects, but thats not a huge difference in power level.
1/1
Oh, I see now, you are trying to save the creature that is dying, I'm specifically not doing that, since I believe the major rules headache would be merging two permanents, with all the memory issues that would imply (what are the timestamps? is it tapped/untapped?), and the other point too, replacing a creature's destruction would be quite weird as well.
I think merging should be Permanent + Object from outside the battlefield, like mutate (or in the case of Meld, two objects from outside -> one permanent.) On my third post I tried using Exile as an inbetween, but your first post made me do a double take and realize that's not needed. We have 1 permanent + 1 permanent that was destroyed/sacrificed and is in the process of dying (namely getting sent from battlefield to graveyard.) The dying permanent no longer exists, so I think we can skip the exile middle point, and simply send the card/token that's dying to under/over the permanent that remains in the battlefield. That permanent is the base, and retains all the permanent information like timestamps, damage, tapped status, etc (even if it got a new card on top.)
Now if the permanent dying is a token (due to copying), a rules decision would be made: does it cease to exist before it's merged? I'd rule not, since there is no memory issue, and tokens play nicely with mutate already. But it ceasing to exist is more consistent with a token dying, so it could go the other way.
I fiddled a bit with the wording to avoid "If you control Abu", but I think it reads better than some alternatives I tried. I'm not saying this ability only works if you control Abu (would be redundant), I'm saying it only works if you control Abu + legendary human.
Firstly, this doesn’t work the way you want it to. A permanent must be on the battlefield to merge, so having the “if it would die” replacement effect doesn’t work because the thing you are trying to merge with is no longer on the battlefield, nor does trying to merge in exile because merged cards in any zone other than the battlefield automatically become separate objects again.
Further, there are play balance issues with allowing the benefit of sacrifice effects and with bringing the creature with the “would die” because it lets you get extra enters/leaves the battlefield effects.
702.140c As a mutating creature spell resolves, if its target is legal, it doesn’t enter the battlefield. Rather, it merges with the target creature and becomes one object represented by more than one card or token (see rule 724, “Merging with Permanents”). The spell’s controller chooses whether the spell is put on top of the creature or on the bottom. The resulting permanent is a mutated permanent.
"A permanent has to be on the battlefield to merge", kinda. It takes two to merge: the permanent, and the 'object' that merges with it. See here:
724. Merging with Permanents
724.1. One keyword causes an object to merge with a permanent. See rule 702.140, “Mutate.”
724.2. To merge an object with a permanent, place that object on top of or under that permanent. That permanent becomes a merged permanent represented by the card or copy that represented that object in addition to any other components that were representing it.
724.2a A merged permanent has only the characteristics of its topmost component, unless otherwise specified by the effect that caused them to merge. This is a copiable effect whose timestamp is the time the objects merged. (See rule 613.2.)
724.2b As an object merges with a permanent, that object leaves its previous zone and becomes part of an object on the battlefield, but the resulting permanent isn’t considered to have just entered the battlefield.
I'm playing a bit loose with rule 724.2b, since the 'previous zone' is actually the battlefield (for the object that is getting its 'death' replaced.) Again, I could use Exile as a middle step, but I don't think it's needed.
No enter the battlefield effect is triggered (again from 724.b) Sacrifice is a nice synergy to have, but I don't think you could fit all three themes in a deck and it being too strong. You'd need sidekicks, legendary humans, sacrifice synergies. Apu + Aladdin is just a silly "combo", and one easily countered with early removal or board wipes.
702.140c As a mutating creature spell resolves, if its target is legal, it doesn’t enter the battlefield. Rather, it merges with the target creature and becomes one object represented by more than one card or token (see rule 724, “Merging with Permanents”). The spell’s controller chooses whether the spell is put on top of the creature or on the bottom. The resulting permanent is a mutated permanent.
"A permanent has to be on the battlefield to merge", kinda. It takes two to merge: the permanent, and the 'object' that merges with it. See here:
724. Merging with Permanents
724.1. One keyword causes an object to merge with a permanent. See rule 702.140, “Mutate.”
724.2. To merge an object with a permanent, place that object on top of or under that permanent. That permanent becomes a merged permanent represented by the card or copy that represented that object in addition to any other components that were representing it.
724.2a A merged permanent has only the characteristics of its topmost component, unless otherwise specified by the effect that caused them to merge. This is a copiable effect whose timestamp is the time the objects merged. (See rule 613.2.)
724.2b As an object merges with a permanent, that object leaves its previous zone and becomes part of an object on the battlefield, but the resulting permanent isn’t considered to have just entered the battlefield.
I'm playing a bit loose with rule 724.2b, since the 'previous zone' is actually the battlefield (for the object that is getting its 'death' replaced.) Again, I could use Exile as a middle step, but I don't think it's needed.
No enter the battlefield effect is triggered (again from 724.b) Sacrifice is a nice synergy to have, but I don't think you could fit all three themes in a deck and it being too strong. You'd need sidekicks, legendary humans, sacrifice synergies. Apu + Aladdin is just a silly "combo", and one easily countered with early removal or board wipes.
You’re not casting a mutating creature spell though. A mutating creature spell causes the spell to merge, but it doesn’t have anything to do with how the rules for merging permanents work. If it did, you couldn’t merge with Alladin because mutuate specifies non-human creatures (merge has no restriction).
The key part of 724.b and mutate is that the creature that is getting merged with is already in play, and the spell is merging as it enters play, so they are never merged in another zone.
Look, and I say this as a judge, I’m just trying to tell you the way to word the thing to do what you want it to in the rules. I’m trying to change functionality as little as possible, but the original wording literally doesn’t work the way you want and I’m trying to explain that the new wording does the thing you wanted it to instead.
While the topic of exact wording is interesting I have a question. Does this have to or even want to be a replacement effect? Being a replacement effect means you have to deal with auras and counters on the dying permanent. Because you are stopping the dying process the rules aren't cleaning those up for you. If you make this a dying trigger rather than a replacement effect it cleans up that problem as well as the issue of dying simultaneously.
While the topic of exact wording is interesting I have a question. Does this have to or even want to be a replacement effect? Being a replacement effect means you have to deal with auras and counters on the dying permanent. Because you are stopping the dying process the rules aren't cleaning those up for you. If you make this a dying trigger rather than a replacement effect it cleans up that problem as well as the issue of dying simultaneously.
The replacement effect leads to better gameplay. The creature getting saved just keeps its auras/equipment/counters like a mutate spell was cast on it, and you don't have to worry about pricing around retriggering etb/death triggers of that permanent from it dying and then returning to the battlefield.
As you are bringing up mutate, let me bring up the obvious.
If I flash mutate a sea-dasher octopus on top of a 3/3 creature with 2 damage on it, the combined creature will instantly die because damage isn’t instantly cleared from it and it does not become a new object.
While the topic of exact wording is interesting I have a question. Does this have to or even want to be a replacement effect? Being a replacement effect means you have to deal with auras and counters on the dying permanent. Because you are stopping the dying process the rules aren't cleaning those up for you. If you make this a dying trigger rather than a replacement effect it cleans up that problem as well as the issue of dying simultaneously.
The replacement effect leads to better gameplay. The creature getting saved just keeps its auras/equipment/counters like a mutate spell was cast on it, and you don't have to worry about pricing around retriggering etb/death triggers of that permanent from it dying and then returning to the battlefield.
There wouldn't be a ETB trigger because it's merging not ETB. However, what you site as a plus was the major con I suggested avoiding what happens to the counters and auras on the permanent that is dying in the original ability? Because it isn't dying it is instead merging there isn't a clear answer to the question of what happens to its attachments. The rules of merge don't currently cover it because they weren't written with the assumption that the merging card would be its own permament. And the rules of the game aren't handling it because the creature isn't dying.
My position is to make it, effectively regenerate-and-merge which both fits the flavor the OP was going for (sidekick saves hero from dying) and solves the mentioned rules issues.
The problem with the death trigger ability is that by definition a permanent has to hit the graveyard in order for "When X dies..." to happen, meaning zone changes. If its a replacement effect worded like Leyline of the Void, there are still zone changes because the permanent changes destination on the way to the graveyard, meaning counters,auras etc will fall off.
The ability is also trying to do a lot by allowing the sidekick to save any X legendary or any X legendary save the sidekick. That makes the wording more complex to account for all the conditionalities and there are still some issues, like the rules don't currently spell out what happens now when two permanents in play with auras/counter merge, since merging only happens from the stack currently.
As a side note, the ETB or not matters with some iterations of this rule more than others that have been discussed - one exiled both creatures, merged them, and returned them to play, for instance - so that's more of a case by case thing.
My position is to make it, effectively regenerate-and-merge which both fits the flavor the OP was going for (sidekick saves hero from dying) and solves the mentioned rules issues.
To confirm. You are suggesting that the final merged creature should have all legal auras and counters from the two creatures?
Abu, Partner in CrimeR
Legendary Creature - Ape
Human sidekick (0: Exile Abu carried by target legendary human you control. That creature gains indestructible until end of turn.)
Whenever a legendary human attacks, if it's a rogue or carries this card, create a treasure token.
1/1
Now using haunt technology. I think that does 99% of what I wanted.
Edit: no, wait, if the ability functions while carried, it would trigger for non-carrier rogues. MMMM
Edit 2:
Abu, Partner in CrimeR
Legendary Creature - Ape
Human sidekick (0: Target legendary human becomes Abu's buddy. If it already was, exile Abu and that creature gains indestructible until end of turn.)
Whenever Abu's buddy attacks, if it's a rogue or this card is in exile, create a treasure token.
1/1
Ok, that preserves the intended functionality, but I probably went through a hoop too many to keep it intact.
Abu, Partner in Crime R
Legendary Creature - Ape Rogue (R)
Human sidekick (If this creature or a legendary human you control would die, you may merge this under that human, or that human over this. The result loses sidekick.)
Whenever a legendary human rogue you control attacks, create a treasure token.
1/1
Sidekicks are like an extra life for legendary humans (unless it's a full board wipe.) And if it's the sidekick who would die, their ability may still survive under a legendary.
Abu would be good with Aladdin (who would be a human rogue) but if it saves another human, the resulting creature would be a human rogue, so the ability starts working. The sidekick ability is lost, however, so you couldn't keep piling up human cards together.
I think you also have to remove all damage from the saved Human, because otherwise it would immediately die again when SBA are checked and see a creature with lethal damage.
Example:
Let's say Aladdin receives 5 damage (or is sacrificed.) Aladdin is destroyed (or is sacrificed) and this causes it to go to a graveyard. The replacement effect takes charge, and you merge Aladdin over Abu. The Aladdin object ceases to exist (and any damage on it) so Auras and Equipments also fall from it, and the Abu object suffers a change: now its name is Aladdin, and is a merged creature.
This is incorrect. You worded the effect as a replacement effect, which replaces the action of Aladdin going to the graveyard. INSTEAD, it merges. The merged creature is not a new creature, so the damage remains on it.
Human sidekick (If you control Abu and a legendary human, and only one of them would die, you may exile that card instead. Then meld it onto the other creature, with the human on top. It loses sidekick.)
Meld specifically refers to transforming cards with half a card on their back sides like Gisela, the Broken Blade, so it wouldn't work here. The good news is there is already a keyword action "merge", mutate being an alternate casting cost that then causes the creature spell to merge with the target when it resolves, so the rules technology for that part of the effect already exists.
Lastly, control of the creature itself doesn't need to be spelled out, because you wouldn't be able to use the replacement ability if you didn't control the creature with sidekick in the first place.
So, the correct wording would be
Human sidekick (If a Human legendary creature you control would be destroyed, you may instead merge this creature with it and remove all damage from it. It loses sidekick.)
Abu wouldn't work the way you wanted too though with other humans, as a merged creature only has the creature types of the top creature, so it would either be an Ape Rogue or Human Whatever, but it wouldn't add Rogue to an already Human.
That said, the flavor is a little weird to have the creatures combine. Why does the "hero" get the sidekick's ability if the sidekick dies taking the bullet for him?
I would suggest the tweak "...instead merge this creature under it and..." That way the "hero" is always the base creature that stays around.
Here is a new version with your notes. I reworked the second ability so if it's Mulan who kept Abu on her shoulder, the ability starts working for her.
Abu, Partner in Crime R
Legendary Creature - Ape (R)
Human sidekick (If you control Abu and a legendary human, and only one of them would die, you may instead merge it with the other. Keep the human on top. It loses sidekick.)
Whenever a legendary human you control attacks, if it's this creature or a rogue, create a treasure token.
1/1
The "if only one would be destroyed" part might be a problem for the rules - you can replace an instance of something being destroyed, but I'm honestly not sure if a replacement effect can check for that type of conditionality.
Here's how it needs to be templated
Abu, Partner in Crime R
Legendary Creature - Ape (R)
Human sidekick (If you control a legendary human and that creature or Abu would be destroyed, you may instead merge Abu underneath that creature and remove all combat damage from it. It loses sidekick.)
Whenever a legendary human you control attacks, if it's this creature or a rogue, create a treasure token.
This would allow the to survive an affect that would destroy them simultaneously like combat or wrath effects, but thats not a huge difference in power level.
1/1
I think merging should be Permanent + Object from outside the battlefield, like mutate (or in the case of Meld, two objects from outside -> one permanent.) On my third post I tried using Exile as an inbetween, but your first post made me do a double take and realize that's not needed. We have 1 permanent + 1 permanent that was destroyed/sacrificed and is in the process of dying (namely getting sent from battlefield to graveyard.) The dying permanent no longer exists, so I think we can skip the exile middle point, and simply send the card/token that's dying to under/over the permanent that remains in the battlefield. That permanent is the base, and retains all the permanent information like timestamps, damage, tapped status, etc (even if it got a new card on top.)
Now if the permanent dying is a token (due to copying), a rules decision would be made: does it cease to exist before it's merged? I'd rule not, since there is no memory issue, and tokens play nicely with mutate already. But it ceasing to exist is more consistent with a token dying, so it could go the other way.
I fiddled a bit with the wording to avoid "If you control Abu", but I think it reads better than some alternatives I tried. I'm not saying this ability only works if you control Abu (would be redundant), I'm saying it only works if you control Abu + legendary human.
Further, there are play balance issues with allowing the benefit of sacrifice effects and with bringing the creature with the “would die” because it lets you get extra enters/leaves the battlefield effects.
"A permanent has to be on the battlefield to merge", kinda. It takes two to merge: the permanent, and the 'object' that merges with it. See here:
724. Merging with Permanents
724.1. One keyword causes an object to merge with a permanent. See rule 702.140, “Mutate.”
724.2. To merge an object with a permanent, place that object on top of or under that permanent. That permanent becomes a merged permanent represented by the card or copy that represented that object in addition to any other components that were representing it.
724.2a A merged permanent has only the characteristics of its topmost component, unless otherwise specified by the effect that caused them to merge. This is a copiable effect whose timestamp is the time the objects merged. (See rule 613.2.)
724.2b As an object merges with a permanent, that object leaves its previous zone and becomes part of an object on the battlefield, but the resulting permanent isn’t considered to have just entered the battlefield.
I'm playing a bit loose with rule 724.2b, since the 'previous zone' is actually the battlefield (for the object that is getting its 'death' replaced.) Again, I could use Exile as a middle step, but I don't think it's needed.
No enter the battlefield effect is triggered (again from 724.b) Sacrifice is a nice synergy to have, but I don't think you could fit all three themes in a deck and it being too strong. You'd need sidekicks, legendary humans, sacrifice synergies. Apu + Aladdin is just a silly "combo", and one easily countered with early removal or board wipes.
You’re not casting a mutating creature spell though. A mutating creature spell causes the spell to merge, but it doesn’t have anything to do with how the rules for merging permanents work. If it did, you couldn’t merge with Alladin because mutuate specifies non-human creatures (merge has no restriction).
The key part of 724.b and mutate is that the creature that is getting merged with is already in play, and the spell is merging as it enters play, so they are never merged in another zone.
Look, and I say this as a judge, I’m just trying to tell you the way to word the thing to do what you want it to in the rules. I’m trying to change functionality as little as possible, but the original wording literally doesn’t work the way you want and I’m trying to explain that the new wording does the thing you wanted it to instead.
The replacement effect leads to better gameplay. The creature getting saved just keeps its auras/equipment/counters like a mutate spell was cast on it, and you don't have to worry about pricing around retriggering etb/death triggers of that permanent from it dying and then returning to the battlefield.
If I flash mutate a sea-dasher octopus on top of a 3/3 creature with 2 damage on it, the combined creature will instantly die because damage isn’t instantly cleared from it and it does not become a new object.
You need to remove the damage.
The problem with the death trigger ability is that by definition a permanent has to hit the graveyard in order for "When X dies..." to happen, meaning zone changes. If its a replacement effect worded like Leyline of the Void, there are still zone changes because the permanent changes destination on the way to the graveyard, meaning counters,auras etc will fall off.
The ability is also trying to do a lot by allowing the sidekick to save any X legendary or any X legendary save the sidekick. That makes the wording more complex to account for all the conditionalities and there are still some issues, like the rules don't currently spell out what happens now when two permanents in play with auras/counter merge, since merging only happens from the stack currently.
As a side note, the ETB or not matters with some iterations of this rule more than others that have been discussed - one exiled both creatures, merged them, and returned them to play, for instance - so that's more of a case by case thing.
Legendary Creature - Ape
Human sidekick (0: Exile Abu carried by target legendary human you control. That creature gains indestructible until end of turn.)
Whenever a legendary human attacks, if it's a rogue or carries this card, create a treasure token.
1/1
Now using haunt technology. I think that does 99% of what I wanted.
Edit: no, wait, if the ability functions while carried, it would trigger for non-carrier rogues. MMMM
Edit 2:
Abu, Partner in Crime R
Legendary Creature - Ape
Human sidekick (0: Target legendary human becomes Abu's buddy. If it already was, exile Abu and that creature gains indestructible until end of turn.)
Whenever Abu's buddy attacks, if it's a rogue or this card is in exile, create a treasure token.
1/1
Ok, that preserves the intended functionality, but I probably went through a hoop too many to keep it intact.
You've basically re-branded Haunt.