The Great Beyond Land
, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice The Great Beyond: Search your library for a nonbasic land card with no basic land types and no abilities other than mana abilities and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library afterwards. It is the visionary's canvas to push the envelope that heaven is a place on earth—but only when all that is impure and untrue is left behind.
It is the visionary's canvas to create their own paradise—but only when all else is shutout and left behind—else it will become their own living hell.
The Great Unknown Land
: Add one mana that shares a color with a permanent you control to your mana pool.
: You may activate the ability of a land or artifact you control that causes a permanent to become a creature without paying any of its costs.
A deck can have six cards named The Great Unknown. It is the imminent reminder never to underestimate that hell exists on earth.
It is the imminent reminder never to underestimate that hell exists within all time and space.
The Great Beyond. Why? You go out of your way to try to make this not broken but only achieve not fun.
The Great Unknown. This is a repeated failing of designers. "Without paying any of its costs" is a childish attempt to get around every method of making you pay a cost without thinking about why those costs are there. Don't be childish. Just use without paying its mana cost. As for the rest of it. It technically works because equinox its possible for cards to look forward to what the effect would be if it resolved. Its dangerous territory to tread but its possible.
The Great Beyond Land
, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice The Great Beyond: Search your library for a non-basic land card with no basic land types and no abilities other than mana abilities and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library afterwards. It is the visionary's canvas to push the envelope that heaven is a place on earth—but only when all that is impure and untrue is left behind.
It is the visionary's canvas to create their own paradise—but only when all else is shutout and left behind—else it will become their own living hell.
You know what? I acknowledge that this looks like it was a decent attempt. It can’t get original duals, can’t get anything that enters the battlefield tapped (always or conditionally)… a lot of lands that I originally thought of as problematic targets were not allowed.
There are cards on that list that have wrecked standard, modern, pioneer, legacy, and edh.
While I know that you have stated that your designs should not be limited by what already exists but you have also repeatedly stated the opinion that having extra copies of a card allow for it to have a strong chance to be found in the opening hand (even though you hate and ignore the modern mulligan rules).
However you look at it, giving vintage players 4 extra copies of tolarian academy or mishra’s workshop in their library is not balanced.
I don't understand what you mean when you say it's not fun.
It was intended as a catch for Filterlands—Wooded Bastion—so that they could begin to see more competitive play.
I originally wanted to give this one the "six copies" rule, but given the other lands that it can still fetch, I felt it wasn't a good idea (and probably wasn't necessary anyways).
The Great Unknown just doesn't want you to pay any costs. Sure, it could be just the mana cost, but doesn't need to. Saving an additional life or two, or a discarded card should still be well within the utility here. A person who wants to make a land or artifact that goes out of its way to break this is irresponsible—and error falls on that developer—certainly not me.
The cards above that were mentioned make your land still broken in certain formats. While your land can certainly be inst-banned in those formats, that is a terrible look for any designer/developer.
As for the other, your card seems to ignore things like the following:
Mishra’s Groundbreaker - You no longer need to sac it so it just makes all your lands into Artifact lands. Other cards do the same, but this is repeatable and controllable unlike most effects that turn a large swathe of lands into creatures.
The Blackstaff of Waterdeep - Same thing here. Since it doesn't need to tap anymore, it can change every artifact into a creature on the turn it enters. Which means that once tapped, it has no real downside, and your effect doesn't stop it from tapping at least once. It remains tapped but it still gets to be used.
And, of course, every Vehicle in the game. There are probably only a few that are truly broken, Colossal Plow might ironically be one of the worst to deal with. A turn 2 6/3 that ramps by 3 mana? That is insane. But there are others that I am sure become overpowered.
The responsibility on broken combos lies with both parties: the one who makes the first card and the one who makes the second. And you are playing in exceptionally dangerous space since costs are the way things are balanced. If someone printed a land that could turn itself into a 12/12 for 12 mana and sacrificing 3 creatures seems balanced enough on the surface (and might even make sense in some sets). But your card breaks it. So, you have effectively prohibited future design because of your inane arrogance and lack of awareness. No one is going to go out of their way to break this: they are going to go out of their way to balance a cool card and your card then breaks theirs. Yours is the problem.
Also, on a final note, this is a turn 2 win with Raging Ravine. So, not only do you hinder future development, you just broke an already existing card. And yes, the granted triggered abilities stack (I realize you don't play Magic so you don't know the rules) so activating it 1 million times gives it 1 million triggers. If someone doesn't have removal right then and there, they die. With things like Sylvan Scrying this could be far too consistent (though that ends up being turn 3 at best).
At least, that is a potential depending on your intent. I will admit that "becomes" generally refers to something that is not something and then is that something ("becomes tapped" doesn't trigger if tapping something already tapped). But this is a fairly nebulous concept due to the fact that the ability still attempts to turn it into a land which adds another continuous effect. There could be an argument to be made that it wouldn't actually work but it sure seems like it would since that is exactly what the ability does: turns Ravine into a land.
WizardMN, you seem to have made the assumption that The Great Unknown would allow you to repeatedly activate the ability in the same turn. While I know Reap is rarely concise with their templating but what part of it led you to this conclusion? It doesn't give a time frame meaning its not granting a lean but expressing a permission. As the ability resolves you may activate the specified ability. This still has implications but its not nearly as dangerous as your interpretation.
To preface this, I did read more into it than it really says so that is a fair point. The card reads weird overall and on a re-read it seems that I could be reading more into it than what Reap intended. We would need him to clarify that.
I initially read it as choosing a land or artifact and then setting up a rule for the turn that allows it to be activated without paying its costs. It would seem though that your interpretation, especially with the actual words Reap used, means you make the choice of a land or artifact on resolution and activate it while the ability is still resolving (like casting a spell through Shelldock Isle for example). And the effect doesn't say "this turn" so it ends when the ability is off the stack.
However, the ability doesn't limit itself though. We certainly have things like Shelldock Isle that only work to cast the spell once because the card changes zones, that isn't the case here. It could be interpreted as the card granting a permission that exists only while the ability is resolving but you can just keep doing it since that permission exists until you are done activating the ability as many times as you want (since activated abilities don't normally have a limit). That is, there isn't a built-in "stopping mechanism" that exists for other things that allow for special permission during an ability resolving such as a card changing zones.
I could certainly see the argument being made that since you have permission to activate the ability while this card's ability is resolving, you no longer need priority but you also aren't limited to just once because activated abilities aren't normally limited to just once. So then you can still activate it as many times as you want as long as you can pay the costs (of which there are none).
The closest real example I can think of to this though is activating something like Ashnod's Altar while resolving Flash. You get to activate that a whole bunch of times since Flash asks for a mana payment and the rules offer a permission like this card does. And you are not limited to only producing two mana in that case. I could see this being interpreted the same.
In the end, I think you are right, but the effect being what it is suggests it could be a little murkier than what it seems on the surface.
In the end, I think you are right, but the effect being what it is suggests it could be a little murkier than what it seems on the surface.
As written, (lord only knows what Reaps actual intention was), yes User's interpretation is correct. It says you can activate an ability (singular) without paying its costs. If it were to allow multiple activations, it would have to specify a duration for the effect because an ability that allows you to take an action as part of its resolution only allows it to happen the one time.
There are obvious other issues with the card, like whether the game rules are allowed to recognize that an ability could animate a land if there are no land on the board or something, or that it is a strictly better Reflecting Pool(corrected), but infinite activations isn't one of them.
While we're at it, the other one is a strictly better Prismatic Vista so, yeah, too powerful as well.
The Great Unknown just doesn't want you to pay any costs. Sure, it could be just the mana cost, but doesn't need to. Saving an additional life or two, or a discarded card should still be well within the utility here. A person who wants to make a land or artifact that goes out of its way to break this is irresponsible—and error falls on that developer—certainly not me.
Since you (being the designer) seem physically incapable of listening to the input of the rest of us (the developers in this scenario) then, no, the failures of the card land squarely on your own shoulders. And what spectacular failures they are.
1/10, clever ideas but, as everyone notes, above fails to execute with clear wording, rules accuracy or balance for power level
1. What made you think that the Great Unknown is balanced? Why would animating a celesial collonade or consulate dreadnought on turn 2 be balanced? Even in modern, big, dumb vanilla creatures like tarmogoyf and death's shadow have been playable until relatively recently and this takes far less work (especially when elvish reclaimer, sylvan scrying, or expedition map can find the great unknown while you could also run several man lands + dreadnaughts, addressing your obvious "BuT MuLlIgAnS" response).
2. You create cards with an intention. Because you create them into a context that have other cards other than those you are thinking of, your designs have unintended consequences. Game-breaking unexpected consequences make a card bad regardless of how well it lives up to your specific intentions for use. I do not get why you do not get or agree with this. If I made a card that forms bad interactions or combos that would make the game unfun, my card is a failure that needs to be fixed.
So, to summarize.
The Great Beyond: "I made this card to search out filterlands. It's not my fault that it also fetches fastlands that have had terrifying consequences on several formats." The Great Unknown: "I made this card to animate lands. It's not my fault that it doesn't work in the game and literally does not let the game work if players do the wrong thing."
It's actually not a better reflecting pool because it depends on the permanents, and not the lands, which has an incredible variance to it.
That's a very big up. If you drop a dual land, Reflecting Pool becomes a dual land. If you drop a chromaland, it becomes a chromaland. Given hybrid creatures, I'll say that there's some likeness. However, the number of very solid hybrid creatures low on the mana curve are too slim to matter. And don't provide any coverage across the spectrum of colors to count. The capability to get a five color permanent is near zero. Chroma capability is almost non-existent.
However, it doesn't really need to do that. It does what I think it wants to do most, which is enable you color-heavy capability as you begin to develop on the battlefield with your multicolor permanents.
It does work perfectly. If it was intended to be unlimited it would probably say "any number of ---" or it would say "this turn" to denote the range factor.
When it says, "you may activate the ability of a land or artifact" that a (in the English language) is singular.
Let's not pretend like we don't understand English.
I do think that it's broken with Crew, but I also think that the comprehensive rulings should have stated that a creature must be tapped to activate the ability, and if a creature isn't tapped to activate the ability, then the ability does nothing. Naturally, the rules could easily be amended, but just to say that should have been in the initial concept for securities of the ability and its force majeure. I certainly wouldn't have missed that if I had developed Crew.
Manlands are still balanced, even the suggested, since they are open to removal and turn fast cheap creature removal spells into more prominent, imminent, powerful, slower land removal spells.
Land
, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice The Great Beyond: Search your library for a nonbasic land card with no basic land types and no abilities other than mana abilities and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library afterwards.
It is the visionary's canvas to push the envelope that heaven is a place on earth—but only when all that is impure and untrue is left behind.
It is the visionary's canvas to create their own paradise—but only when all else is shutout and left behind—else it will become their own living hell.
The Great Unknown
Land
: Add one mana that shares a color with a permanent you control to your mana pool.
: You may activate the ability of a land or artifact you control that causes a permanent to become a creature without paying any of its costs.
A deck can have six cards named The Great Unknown.
It is the imminent reminder never to underestimate that hell exists on earth.
It is the imminent reminder never to underestimate that hell exists within all time and space.
The Great Unknown. This is a repeated failing of designers. "Without paying any of its costs" is a childish attempt to get around every method of making you pay a cost without thinking about why those costs are there. Don't be childish. Just use without paying its mana cost. As for the rest of it. It technically works because equinox its possible for cards to look forward to what the effect would be if it resolved. Its dangerous territory to tread but its possible.
You know what? I acknowledge that this looks like it was a decent attempt. It can’t get original duals, can’t get anything that enters the battlefield tapped (always or conditionally)… a lot of lands that I originally thought of as problematic targets were not allowed.
And then I remembered ancient tomb
and mishra’s workshop
and cabal coffera
and nykthos, shrine to nyx
and mana confluence
and Eldrazi Temple
and Serra Sanctum
and tolarian academy
and gaea’s cradle
and the relatively recent cycle of MDFC “pathway” lands (being MDFC is not an ability, as defined by mtg).
There are cards on that list that have wrecked standard, modern, pioneer, legacy, and edh.
While I know that you have stated that your designs should not be limited by what already exists but you have also repeatedly stated the opinion that having extra copies of a card allow for it to have a strong chance to be found in the opening hand (even though you hate and ignore the modern mulligan rules).
However you look at it, giving vintage players 4 extra copies of tolarian academy or mishra’s workshop in their library is not balanced.
It was intended as a catch for Filterlands—Wooded Bastion—so that they could begin to see more competitive play.
I originally wanted to give this one the "six copies" rule, but given the other lands that it can still fetch, I felt it wasn't a good idea (and probably wasn't necessary anyways).
The Great Unknown just doesn't want you to pay any costs. Sure, it could be just the mana cost, but doesn't need to. Saving an additional life or two, or a discarded card should still be well within the utility here. A person who wants to make a land or artifact that goes out of its way to break this is irresponsible—and error falls on that developer—certainly not me.
As for the other, your card seems to ignore things like the following:
Mishra’s Groundbreaker - You no longer need to sac it so it just makes all your lands into Artifact lands. Other cards do the same, but this is repeatable and controllable unlike most effects that turn a large swathe of lands into creatures.
The Blackstaff of Waterdeep - Same thing here. Since it doesn't need to tap anymore, it can change every artifact into a creature on the turn it enters. Which means that once tapped, it has no real downside, and your effect doesn't stop it from tapping at least once. It remains tapped but it still gets to be used.
Toymaker - Same thing here.
And, of course, every Vehicle in the game. There are probably only a few that are truly broken, Colossal Plow might ironically be one of the worst to deal with. A turn 2 6/3 that ramps by 3 mana? That is insane. But there are others that I am sure become overpowered.
The responsibility on broken combos lies with both parties: the one who makes the first card and the one who makes the second. And you are playing in exceptionally dangerous space since costs are the way things are balanced. If someone printed a land that could turn itself into a 12/12 for 12 mana and sacrificing 3 creatures seems balanced enough on the surface (and might even make sense in some sets). But your card breaks it. So, you have effectively prohibited future design because of your inane arrogance and lack of awareness. No one is going to go out of their way to break this: they are going to go out of their way to balance a cool card and your card then breaks theirs. Yours is the problem.
Also, on a final note, this is a turn 2 win with Raging Ravine. So, not only do you hinder future development, you just broke an already existing card. And yes, the granted triggered abilities stack (I realize you don't play Magic so you don't know the rules) so activating it 1 million times gives it 1 million triggers. If someone doesn't have removal right then and there, they die. With things like Sylvan Scrying this could be far too consistent (though that ends up being turn 3 at best).
At least, that is a potential depending on your intent. I will admit that "becomes" generally refers to something that is not something and then is that something ("becomes tapped" doesn't trigger if tapping something already tapped). But this is a fairly nebulous concept due to the fact that the ability still attempts to turn it into a land which adds another continuous effect. There could be an argument to be made that it wouldn't actually work but it sure seems like it would since that is exactly what the ability does: turns Ravine into a land.
I initially read it as choosing a land or artifact and then setting up a rule for the turn that allows it to be activated without paying its costs. It would seem though that your interpretation, especially with the actual words Reap used, means you make the choice of a land or artifact on resolution and activate it while the ability is still resolving (like casting a spell through Shelldock Isle for example). And the effect doesn't say "this turn" so it ends when the ability is off the stack.
However, the ability doesn't limit itself though. We certainly have things like Shelldock Isle that only work to cast the spell once because the card changes zones, that isn't the case here. It could be interpreted as the card granting a permission that exists only while the ability is resolving but you can just keep doing it since that permission exists until you are done activating the ability as many times as you want (since activated abilities don't normally have a limit). That is, there isn't a built-in "stopping mechanism" that exists for other things that allow for special permission during an ability resolving such as a card changing zones.
I could certainly see the argument being made that since you have permission to activate the ability while this card's ability is resolving, you no longer need priority but you also aren't limited to just once because activated abilities aren't normally limited to just once. So then you can still activate it as many times as you want as long as you can pay the costs (of which there are none).
The closest real example I can think of to this though is activating something like Ashnod's Altar while resolving Flash. You get to activate that a whole bunch of times since Flash asks for a mana payment and the rules offer a permission like this card does. And you are not limited to only producing two mana in that case. I could see this being interpreted the same.
In the end, I think you are right, but the effect being what it is suggests it could be a little murkier than what it seems on the surface.
As written, (lord only knows what Reaps actual intention was), yes User's interpretation is correct. It says you can activate an ability (singular) without paying its costs. If it were to allow multiple activations, it would have to specify a duration for the effect because an ability that allows you to take an action as part of its resolution only allows it to happen the one time.
There are obvious other issues with the card, like whether the game rules are allowed to recognize that an ability could animate a land if there are no land on the board or something, or that it is a strictly better Reflecting Pool(corrected), but infinite activations isn't one of them.
While we're at it, the other one is a strictly better Prismatic Vista so, yeah, too powerful as well.
Since you (being the designer) seem physically incapable of listening to the input of the rest of us (the developers in this scenario) then, no, the failures of the card land squarely on your own shoulders. And what spectacular failures they are.
1/10, clever ideas but, as everyone notes, above fails to execute with clear wording, rules accuracy or balance for power level
Did anyone mention Reflecting Pool?
You mean that you made a strictly better Reflecting Pool for no good reason? Yeah, we caught that.
2. You create cards with an intention. Because you create them into a context that have other cards other than those you are thinking of, your designs have unintended consequences. Game-breaking unexpected consequences make a card bad regardless of how well it lives up to your specific intentions for use. I do not get why you do not get or agree with this. If I made a card that forms bad interactions or combos that would make the game unfun, my card is a failure that needs to be fixed.
So, to summarize.
The Great Beyond: "I made this card to search out filterlands. It's not my fault that it also fetches fastlands that have had terrifying consequences on several formats."
The Great Unknown: "I made this card to animate lands. It's not my fault that it doesn't work in the game and literally does not let the game work if players do the wrong thing."
That's a very big up. If you drop a dual land, Reflecting Pool becomes a dual land. If you drop a chromaland, it becomes a chromaland. Given hybrid creatures, I'll say that there's some likeness. However, the number of very solid hybrid creatures low on the mana curve are too slim to matter. And don't provide any coverage across the spectrum of colors to count. The capability to get a five color permanent is near zero. Chroma capability is almost non-existent.
However, it doesn't really need to do that. It does what I think it wants to do most, which is enable you color-heavy capability as you begin to develop on the battlefield with your multicolor permanents.
It does work perfectly. If it was intended to be unlimited it would probably say "any number of ---" or it would say "this turn" to denote the range factor.
When it says, "you may activate the ability of a land or artifact" that a (in the English language) is singular.
Let's not pretend like we don't understand English.
I do think that it's broken with Crew, but I also think that the comprehensive rulings should have stated that a creature must be tapped to activate the ability, and if a creature isn't tapped to activate the ability, then the ability does nothing. Naturally, the rules could easily be amended, but just to say that should have been in the initial concept for securities of the ability and its force majeure. I certainly wouldn't have missed that if I had developed Crew.
Manlands are still balanced, even the suggested, since they are open to removal and turn fast cheap creature removal spells into more prominent, imminent, powerful, slower land removal spells.