This is the dungeon that never ends.
It just goes on and on, my friend.
Some people started venturing in it, not knowing what it was.
And, they’ll continue venturing in it forever, just because
This is the dungeon that never ends.
It just goes on and on, my friend.
Some people started venturing in it, not knowing what it was.
And, they’ll continue venturing in it forever, just because
This is the dungeon that never ends…
Dungeon that never ends
So the idea is to have it being a multiple card dungeon that each piece just has the arrows at the bottom to go to the next part, but that's the bottom of the card. There isn't a payoff at the end.
Or it could say at the end to grab a random dungeon that doesn't end card and venture into that dungeon as the final step.
I know it seems dumb, but I feel that maybe if the effects are slightly more powerful that not having an actual end would be great. Like each time you venture that is the payoff. A better effect than the typical ones.
Let's say we compare this to Tomb of Annulation
Rather than each player loses 1 life it would say A)each opponent loses 1 life.
A) Each opponent loses 2 life or discards a card.
Or B) you lose 1 life or discard a card or sacrifice a permanent.
If A then A2) Each opponent loses 2 life unless they sacrifice an artifact, a creature, or a land.
Last part you create a 1/2 goblin creature token with deathtouch and venture into a dungeon that doesn't end at random. (This does not count as completing a dungeon.)
I mean when you go into a deep dark thing you don't know what is next. This pretty much explains this.
Yes you do lose the ability to have the if you've completed a dungeon effect, but those cards would lose value if you went this playstyle instead.
I think the challenge here is that flavorfully it wants to be a dungeon but its to be mechanically different enough that gameplay wise it will want to be something else to handle rules differences.
For instance:
-You'll never trigger payoffs for completing dungeons
-Once you start the "endless dungeon", are you stuck with it forever? You can never again choose to start a "normal" dungeo
The idea of a deck with randomized dungeons is cool and you could feasibly have more complicated effects if each card only needed 2-3 rooms. Also, power level for effects can be higher since you're not choosing the dungeon yourself. You could even share the deck so each person's endless dungeon is coming from the same source.
Again, the flavor is spot on, its just the meshing with the current play design that is a challenge. Maybe make it a "Labyrinth" instead and then you can make the rules to suit its specific needs?
I get what you are saying. And while it does make sense, I do not see the need for them to print another venture mechanic. Would be better just to keep the existing one and grow the count rather than making a functionally identical ability. Right now, since they did away with blocks, the set mechanics are very weak. I'd rather see another set of venture cards than one set of party. You see what I'm saying. All this really would need to be able to happen is to reevaluate the strength of a few cards. The ones that do something when you complete a dungeon become worse while the ones that let you venture easier would be more valuable. They could keep both of course and then there is a give and take with the cards. That dynamic would only make the game even better
I could see and edit to the venture mechanic that saying you can go into the dungeon or the "labyrinth", but there's still the issues of "can I be in both at the same time?" "can I leave the labyrinth at will and go into another dungeon?" "can the labyrinth randomly have exits show up that give you the choice to leave or keep going"
I agree that its nice to have more reason to design with venture than to have two completely separate mechanics. Its just a bunch of design hurdles to make them work smoothly.
Venture could be erratid to say you can enter the first level, go to the next room or exit the existing dungeon. I don't mind changes like this since it's not exactly unprecedented. They just did the same thing with Companion. I know it's not popular but if these were to be printed then it would be for the betterment of the game. I can also see Labyrinth being added to the venture mechanic. Both work. I think we are pretty much in agreement for the most part. Just slightly different views.
Or you could put exit points in your Endless Dungeon itself. Just a room that says: "Emergency Exit You gain 2 life. You may exit the Dungeon That Never Ends without completing it."
Really, designing dungeons seems a lot about fine tuning and figuring out what the appropriate pay-off for choosing one dungeon/room over another is. And since they dn't take up spots in the deck power creep is a real issue here. Your suggested dungeon could easily become the default for any deck that doesn't care about completing dungeons and that would take away from the depth of decision making.
I also fail to really see how different going from one section of the Dungeon That Never Ends to another section when comparing it to going from one completed dungeon to another - except of course for restricted options.
I thinkit could be cool to have a "campaign" e. g. dungeons that can only be used after you have completed another dungeon or task.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I don't think you could meaningfully increase the power of a repeating dungeon's base effects to make the idea good without being strictly better. However, if you take the concept of the reward for finishing the first mediocre dungeon is a strictly better dungeon then you have something to build on. The first layer would be the one you enter and there would be multiple "deeper" floors that you go to, possibly randomly, and each of those floors end with you back at the beginning floor, possibly in different rooms.
I see what you are saying about the power level. The thought is the one you go into is at random. So venturing into it would be harder to build around. Yes I can see a player trying to be cleaver and only bringing one dungeon card to the table. So it would have to be random from both players. Like your opponent could also bring dungeon cards to add into yours. There could be say ten different cards. Some tiles could also be strictly negative to further balance the increased power of them.
Like a central" hallway" that all paths lead to could say sacrifice a creature. If you can't then discard a card and lose 1 life.
I see no reason they couldn't be done with good effect.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It just goes on and on, my friend.
Some people started venturing in it, not knowing what it was.
And, they’ll continue venturing in it forever, just because
This is the dungeon that never ends.
It just goes on and on, my friend.
Some people started venturing in it, not knowing what it was.
And, they’ll continue venturing in it forever, just because
This is the dungeon that never ends…
Dungeon that never ends
So the idea is to have it being a multiple card dungeon that each piece just has the arrows at the bottom to go to the next part, but that's the bottom of the card. There isn't a payoff at the end.
Or it could say at the end to grab a random dungeon that doesn't end card and venture into that dungeon as the final step.
I know it seems dumb, but I feel that maybe if the effects are slightly more powerful that not having an actual end would be great. Like each time you venture that is the payoff. A better effect than the typical ones.
Let's say we compare this to Tomb of Annulation
Rather than each player loses 1 life it would say A)each opponent loses 1 life.
A) Each opponent loses 2 life or discards a card.
Or B) you lose 1 life or discard a card or sacrifice a permanent.
If A then A2) Each opponent loses 2 life unless they sacrifice an artifact, a creature, or a land.
Last part you create a 1/2 goblin creature token with deathtouch and venture into a dungeon that doesn't end at random. (This does not count as completing a dungeon.)
I mean when you go into a deep dark thing you don't know what is next. This pretty much explains this.
Yes you do lose the ability to have the if you've completed a dungeon effect, but those cards would lose value if you went this playstyle instead.
For instance:
-You'll never trigger payoffs for completing dungeons
-Once you start the "endless dungeon", are you stuck with it forever? You can never again choose to start a "normal" dungeo
The idea of a deck with randomized dungeons is cool and you could feasibly have more complicated effects if each card only needed 2-3 rooms. Also, power level for effects can be higher since you're not choosing the dungeon yourself. You could even share the deck so each person's endless dungeon is coming from the same source.
Again, the flavor is spot on, its just the meshing with the current play design that is a challenge. Maybe make it a "Labyrinth" instead and then you can make the rules to suit its specific needs?
I agree that its nice to have more reason to design with venture than to have two completely separate mechanics. Its just a bunch of design hurdles to make them work smoothly.
Really, designing dungeons seems a lot about fine tuning and figuring out what the appropriate pay-off for choosing one dungeon/room over another is. And since they dn't take up spots in the deck power creep is a real issue here. Your suggested dungeon could easily become the default for any deck that doesn't care about completing dungeons and that would take away from the depth of decision making.
I also fail to really see how different going from one section of the Dungeon That Never Ends to another section when comparing it to going from one completed dungeon to another - except of course for restricted options.
I thinkit could be cool to have a "campaign" e. g. dungeons that can only be used after you have completed another dungeon or task.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
Like a central" hallway" that all paths lead to could say sacrifice a creature. If you can't then discard a card and lose 1 life.
I see no reason they couldn't be done with good effect.