Virot the Descended2BBB Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Protection from spells at all times that weren't cast from the graveyard B: Regenerate Virot the Descended, then untap it if it's regenerated this way. "It was his true power all along. Only Kuberr could see it. His equal in every way—almost a darker shadow of the beast."
6/4
Kuberr the Dark ImmortalBBBBB Legendary Creature — Avatar
Changeling
Protection from creatures that didn't enter the battlefield from the graveyard
If Kuberr the Dark Immortal is targeted, chosen, or named by an opponent's effect at anytime that source's controller loses 4 life. "Virot's intentions were always selfish. Kuberr knew this—enthralled that he would test him one day—and witness what's earned in true darkness."
6/6
I am going to ignore the first ability since it is nonsense.
The second ability seems weird to have and probably doesn't work the way you want. Though, maybe it does. In any case, it means that Cabal still has protection from creatures cast from a graveyard since they then didn't enter from a graveyard; they entered from the stack.
The last ability is really the one I want to comment on. It isn't even necessarily a bad ability (though just give it indestructible as that basically accomplishes the same thing). If you want this work, you need to sat "when it regenerates this way, untap it". Otherwise, your ability sets up a regeneration shield and then immediately untaps it. Which honestly makes it more powerful than the (presumed) intention of untapping after the regeneration shield is used.
That's not the way it would be ruled—or was intended to be ruled.
The ruling considers the zone it was in before being cast. A creature cast from the graveyard, counts as "entering the battlefield from the graveyard". Opposed to one cast from the hand, the library, or from exile.
The first ability is certainly not nonsense either. The clause [at all times] extends the effects of protection in every other zone in addition to the battlefield.
So I basically can't remove this guy unless I have Snapcaster Mage + Path to Exile? I thought you liked interaction?
I would probably word the first ability, "Whenever ~ becomes the target of a spell, counter that spell unless it was cast from a graveyard".
The second ability is a tracking nightmare. For the rest of the game, I have to make notes about which zone a creature was cast from?
So what is the force majeure here? He is weak to zombies? Isn't that the antithesis of the character, creating a quandry that is anti-synergistic to the intended paradigm?
I realize what you want the ability to do, but it just doesn't work that way. Flayer of the Hatebound has the wording of "entered from the graveyard" and Gatherer has this to say about it:
If you cast a creature card from your graveyard, that card will be put on the stack before entering the battlefield. Flayer of the Hatebound won’t trigger. [1/22/2011]
So, no, it does not work the way you think it does. If you want it to work that way, you need to add "or was cast from the graveyard".
And yes, I realize what you want your first ability to do; that doesn't change the fact that the wording is nonsense. I am not going to go too much into it though since, as ashrog points out, it is the antithesis of interaction and creating a card that purposely cuts off nearly all forms of legitimate interaction seems like poor card design.
Since you don't know how the rules work you keep designing cards that don't function the way you want them to. This "at all times" could theoretically work but since it amounts to "can't be countered" its nonsense with little value.
As has been pointed out you miss out on creatures that were cast from the graveyard. This is fine rules wise but you have shown that you failed to design to your goal. This wouldn't happen as often if you knew how the rules work. Finally despite it working just fine its a tracking nightmare.
Then you have an untapped ability. Its fairly strong. Mostly with synergy when granting tap abilities. However you have probably failed to design to your intent again. I assume you meant for this to undue the tap part of regeneration. However, because that isn't how regenerate works that isn't how your ability works.
Dropping the can't be countered because its nonsense that you add onto too many cards your card functions perfectly though not how you wanted which is a shame. There is easy wording to make it function mostly the way you want but as you've shown over and over again that you have no interest in fixing your designs I won't bother posting proper wording.
Finally judging the card not on its strict function but what was attempted to capture it gets a negative 10 out of 10. The ultimate lord of death is weak to dead things? There are flavor fails and then their is this travesty that somehow out does the previous tragedy of Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist. An impressive feat but not something to be applauded.
The ruling will not be changed. How about you design cards for what the rules are rather than what you want them to be? It is fine to make up new rules to support new keywords and such; but this is existing functionality and you are not Wizards (luckily for the rest of us) so you need to adhere to existing design/rules conventions if you want your card to work right.
For the amount of power and evasion stapled to this undercosted dude, I think it would be flavorful to have some sort of drawback associated with this that lets your opponent actually cast spells from their graveyards once a turn or something. Maybe Kess, Dissident Mage's ability but for opponents instead of you.
Is it weird for a monoblack card to be so invested in protection? He's got some sort of blessing keeping him safe, right? Does that add white to his color flavor? I don't even fully understand the flavor of eradicator valkyrie's hexproof. I can only assume she is shielded from planeswalkers 'because mythic.' Black Knight makes some sense to me because he is the nemesis of White's values, and hexproof ninjas or rogues are being sneaky, that makes sense. Cabal Patriarch being "just actually Progenitus" is kind of silly to me though.
Let's not oppress the creatives talents of anyone by saying they can't make or suggest changes or adaptations to the rules.
See, the problem is that you never actually suggested any changes or adaptations. Instead, you posted a card that didn't work the way you wanted and *then* declared that it would work when rules were changed after you were informed that it didn't work. Which is a cop-out. You clearly didn't understand the rules enough to begin with to even understand that what you were doing wasn't supported in the rules. And instead of adding "or was cast from a graveyard" (6 words) you want to overhaul the entire rules section to make your card work. Instead of admitting that you just don't know the rules. And then had the ridiculous response that you were somehow being oppressed.
I am not suppressing/oppressing anyone here. I am calling you out on your blatant ignorance of the rules of Magic and, now, your insane claim that what you were doing was suggesting a change to the rules when no suggestion was made. If you want to make a card that ignores, or only operates under a new expansion of, the rules then just say that up front. Just say "I realize the rules don't currently support this card but this is what would be changed to support it". We can debate the reasonability behind such a move on its own merits instead of this stupid back and forth that pervades every thread you make where you make a card that doesn't work, people tell you it doesn't work, and then you respond with "well obviously the rules would change".
Additionally, I think the extended context of "at all times" should include that cards "can't be named or chosen" by the designated sources.
That's not how words work. "At all times" can't have the secret meaning of also expanding what protection does. Unless your in favor of "activate this only anytime you could cast a sorcery" has the hidden meaning of "this can be activated from any zone." Adding nonsense extra abilities that aren't at all apperent or even reasonable based on the words used does open plenty of design space. Deal damage could also have the secret meaning of tap that permanent. Draw a card could also mean mill 3. Name a card could have a look at the opponents hand and deck first clause. All kinds of rich vibrant design space opens when we arbitrarily change what words mean on a card by card basis.
Let's not oppress the creatives talents of anyone by saying they can't make or suggest changes or adaptations to the rules.
...Let's look at two possibilities.
Option A: I feel that Rule XYZ should be changed. Here is how the rules would function with the change and here is a card to demonstrate what types of designs are now possible.
Option B: Here is a new card I thought of when drunk off of the fumes of my own rear end. If it doesn't work, assume that I change the rules to make it work.
Option A is creative and welcome. Option B is the verbal voiding of a drunken sailor who does not know the established rules of his medium enough to create within them and labels the unintended lack of conformity "avant garde" to save himself the effort of making any change.
Again, I want to acknowledge that I did consider the collections of effects (despite how vividly they paint the picture of descendence/litchdom) to be doing too much. As a fix for this, I had considered just "CPtD can't be countered or discarded". Before I take it down, I think this is truly the adaptation that one would want to see with the collection of effects. I will change it just two effects before the end of the day, leaving one outside and one inside effect.
I've posted another design that the chosen effect will be moved to, I would probably think to give Kuberr changeling as well.
EDIT: Why do I even bother responding to this OP? At this point we should all know better.
Personally I find it endearing when a special needs individual reaches out to a community they are interested in and we should be supportive but constructive.
For the amount of power and evasion stapled to this undercosted dude, I think it would be flavorful to have some sort of drawback associated with this that lets your opponent actually cast spells from their graveyards once a turn or something. Maybe Kess, Dissident Mage's ability but for opponents instead of you.
Ooh, interesting idea! A drawback this massive may even justify making him cheaper.
The First, Patriarch Reborn2BB Legendary Creature - Zombie Wizard
Menace
When ~ becomes the target of a spell, if that spell wasn't cast from a graveyard, counter it.
During each opponent's turn, that player may cast one instant or sorcery from their graveyard. If a spell cast this way would be put into a graveyard, exile it instead.
5/5
Flavor: He has been pulled through a portal from the underworld, but the gate remains open, allowing others to draw on its power.
Utility: An undercosted beater with some built-in protection. Menace allows him to get around go-tall decks or trade 2-for-1 (or more) with go-wide decks. He gives opponents the means to circumvent his unusual spell protection, but this is also a political tool. Especially in multiplayer games, maybe they don't want to kill him, but keep him around for their own benefit.
Cabal Patriarch the Descended5BB
Legendary Creature - Human Noble
Indestructible, Vigilance, Bushido 5
3/3 "Cabal Patriarch is like, the raddest guy ever. I could see it all along." ~Kuberr
Cabal Patriarch the Descended5BB
Legendary Creature - Human Noble
Indestructible, Vigilance, Bushido 5
3/3 "Cabal Patriarch is like, the raddest guy ever. I could see it all along." ~Kuberr
There. Perfect.
Seems perfectly balanced to me. A set with this power level would surely be well-received and not among the weakest and most hated sets ever. Surely.
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Protection from spells at all times that weren't cast from the graveyard
B: Regenerate Virot the Descended, then untap it if it's regenerated this way.
"It was his true power all along. Only Kuberr could see it. His equal in every way—almost a darker shadow of the beast."
6/4
Kuberr the Dark Immortal BBBBB
Legendary Creature — Avatar
Changeling
Protection from creatures that didn't enter the battlefield from the graveyard
If Kuberr the Dark Immortal is targeted, chosen, or named by an opponent's effect at anytime that source's controller loses 4 life.
"Virot's intentions were always selfish. Kuberr knew this—enthralled that he would test him one day—and witness what's earned in true darkness."
6/6
The second ability seems weird to have and probably doesn't work the way you want. Though, maybe it does. In any case, it means that Cabal still has protection from creatures cast from a graveyard since they then didn't enter from a graveyard; they entered from the stack.
The last ability is really the one I want to comment on. It isn't even necessarily a bad ability (though just give it indestructible as that basically accomplishes the same thing). If you want this work, you need to sat "when it regenerates this way, untap it". Otherwise, your ability sets up a regeneration shield and then immediately untaps it. Which honestly makes it more powerful than the (presumed) intention of untapping after the regeneration shield is used.
The ruling considers the zone it was in before being cast. A creature cast from the graveyard, counts as "entering the battlefield from the graveyard". Opposed to one cast from the hand, the library, or from exile.
The first ability is certainly not nonsense either. The clause [at all times] extends the effects of protection in every other zone in addition to the battlefield.
I would probably word the first ability, "Whenever ~ becomes the target of a spell, counter that spell unless it was cast from a graveyard".
The second ability is a tracking nightmare. For the rest of the game, I have to make notes about which zone a creature was cast from?
So what is the force majeure here? He is weak to zombies? Isn't that the antithesis of the character, creating a quandry that is anti-synergistic to the intended paradigm?
So, no, it does not work the way you think it does. If you want it to work that way, you need to add "or was cast from the graveyard".
And yes, I realize what you want your first ability to do; that doesn't change the fact that the wording is nonsense. I am not going to go too much into it though since, as ashrog points out, it is the antithesis of interaction and creating a card that purposely cuts off nearly all forms of legitimate interaction seems like poor card design.
A neat Force Majeure here is that he's "descended" (highly promoted ranks of the below). He's a Numena.
He's also vulnerable to the Odyssey native keyword Flashback—which I think is a cool bit of flavor.
Engulfing Flames - Dread Return
As has been pointed out you miss out on creatures that were cast from the graveyard. This is fine rules wise but you have shown that you failed to design to your goal. This wouldn't happen as often if you knew how the rules work. Finally despite it working just fine its a tracking nightmare.
Then you have an untapped ability. Its fairly strong. Mostly with synergy when granting tap abilities. However you have probably failed to design to your intent again. I assume you meant for this to undue the tap part of regeneration. However, because that isn't how regenerate works that isn't how your ability works.
Dropping the can't be countered because its nonsense that you add onto too many cards your card functions perfectly though not how you wanted which is a shame. There is easy wording to make it function mostly the way you want but as you've shown over and over again that you have no interest in fixing your designs I won't bother posting proper wording.
Finally judging the card not on its strict function but what was attempted to capture it gets a negative 10 out of 10. The ultimate lord of death is weak to dead things? There are flavor fails and then their is this travesty that somehow out does the previous tragedy of Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist. An impressive feat but not something to be applauded.
I thought that was so cool. It paints such a vivid fantasy.
Additionally, I think the extended context of "at all times" should include that cards "can't be named or chosen" by the designated sources.
Is it weird for a monoblack card to be so invested in protection? He's got some sort of blessing keeping him safe, right? Does that add white to his color flavor? I don't even fully understand the flavor of eradicator valkyrie's hexproof. I can only assume she is shielded from planeswalkers 'because mythic.' Black Knight makes some sense to me because he is the nemesis of White's values, and hexproof ninjas or rogues are being sneaky, that makes sense. Cabal Patriarch being "just actually Progenitus" is kind of silly to me though.
Anyone notice one of the biggest grip tokens to this guy's power is that he's able to evade Meekstone.
I am not suppressing/oppressing anyone here. I am calling you out on your blatant ignorance of the rules of Magic and, now, your insane claim that what you were doing was suggesting a change to the rules when no suggestion was made. If you want to make a card that ignores, or only operates under a new expansion of, the rules then just say that up front. Just say "I realize the rules don't currently support this card but this is what would be changed to support it". We can debate the reasonability behind such a move on its own merits instead of this stupid back and forth that pervades every thread you make where you make a card that doesn't work, people tell you it doesn't work, and then you respond with "well obviously the rules would change".
...Let's look at two possibilities.
Option A: I feel that Rule XYZ should be changed. Here is how the rules would function with the change and here is a card to demonstrate what types of designs are now possible.
Option B: Here is a new card I thought of when drunk off of the fumes of my own rear end. If it doesn't work, assume that I change the rules to make it work.
Option A is creative and welcome. Option B is the verbal voiding of a drunken sailor who does not know the established rules of his medium enough to create within them and labels the unintended lack of conformity "avant garde" to save himself the effort of making any change.
I've posted another design that the chosen effect will be moved to, I would probably think to give Kuberr changeling as well.
Ooh, interesting idea! A drawback this massive may even justify making him cheaper.
The First, Patriarch Reborn 2BB
Legendary Creature - Zombie Wizard
Menace
When ~ becomes the target of a spell, if that spell wasn't cast from a graveyard, counter it.
During each opponent's turn, that player may cast one instant or sorcery from their graveyard. If a spell cast this way would be put into a graveyard, exile it instead.
5/5
Flavor: He has been pulled through a portal from the underworld, but the gate remains open, allowing others to draw on its power.
Utility: An undercosted beater with some built-in protection. Menace allows him to get around go-tall decks or trade 2-for-1 (or more) with go-wide decks. He gives opponents the means to circumvent his unusual spell protection, but this is also a political tool. Especially in multiplayer games, maybe they don't want to kill him, but keep him around for their own benefit.
Cabal Patriarch the Descended 5BB
Legendary Creature - Human Noble
Indestructible, Vigilance, Bushido 5
3/3
"Cabal Patriarch is like, the raddest guy ever. I could see it all along." ~Kuberr
There. Perfect.
Seems perfectly balanced to me. A set with this power level would surely be well-received and not among the weakest and most hated sets ever. Surely.
I think I know where you're coming from. I didn't think Gigantosaurus was very creative or interesting either.
...you do realize that was a direct reference to konda, lord of eiganjo being in a weak set (champions of Kamigawa), right?
How do you get from there to Gigantosaurus?
I really liked the 7/6 with 7 life a lot—because I felt it really pushed the imminence of the design.
This form however, is easily as functional, and looks more on par with the modern curve.
Once again, I think I see where you're coming from in that I always thought Tephraderm was a cool card, but no way for it to see that potential.