^ Really like this version, cuts down a lot of combat math. I think a single trigger at the beginning of combat is doable but the static is much better, even if it uses strange wording.
Lifelink, for example, was triggered before being turned into a static evergreen with strange wording.
Shifty (You may have this creature enter the battlefield with its power and toughness switched.)
This “enters the battlefield” version is actually tried and true as a faction mechanic for a custom set. While boring on the surface, it’s surprisingly fun to play.
Shifty (You may have this creature enter the battlefield with its power and toughness switched.)
This “enters the battlefield” version is actually tried and true as a faction mechanic for a custom set. While boring on the surface, it’s surprisingly fun to play.
Does this version also switch p/t effects?
If the creature has a printed P/T that get switched, it would indeed count as a switching effect that works on effects that change power and toughness as well. If you wanted to avoid it, you would need a wording like Primal Clay or Aquamorph Entity.
Being an indefinite ability on ETB requires too much tracking as you will always switch p/t changes. While its less powerful, for gameplay reasons I think a static version that doesn't give a choice is the best hope for being evergreen.
Alternatively, if we are willing to stretch the reasonable; I believe someone mentioned switching base power and toughness. That on an ETB could be interesting and dynamic without the rules headache of actual switching p/t. The ability would only ask for a decision when you play the creature so there isn't an interruption of gameplay. For the sake of argument I would assume switching base p/t would have no effect on further p/t setting or alterations. Probably defining it more as a CDA rather than an actual swap though I'm not sure how the rules would have to be written to handle such a thing.
Shift(As this creature enters the battlefield you may switch its base power and toughness. This effect lasts indefinitely)
The actual reminder text of the faction version did say "base" power and toughness. I just failed to include it above. And, right or wrong, we treated it as a Characteristic Defining Ability. Does it indeed work as such when worded thus? Also, what's the effectual difference, if any, between the following two versions of reminder text?
Shift (You may have this creature enter the battlefield with its base power and toughness switched. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
Shift (As this creature enters the battlefield, you may switch its base power and toughness. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
I was thinking about how Aquamorph Entity is worded and if you tie it to an ETB effect perhaps something like this could work:
Shifty X (When ~ enters the battlefield, increase either its power or toughness by X. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
A few thoughts on that... First it more or less behaves like a power/toughness switch on creatures with symmetric P/T. Second it can go on a 1/1 french vanilla creature so it would pass this test. Third you could also explore the design space of 1/2 creatures with Shifty X.
I was thinking about how Aquamorph Entity is worded and if you tie it to an ETB effect perhaps something like this could work:
Shifty X (When ~ enters the battlefield, increase either its power or toughness by X. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
A few thoughts on that... First it more or less behaves like a power/toughness switch on creatures with symmetric P/T. Second it can go on a 1/1 french vanilla creature so it would pass this test. Third you could also explore the design space of 1/2 creatures with Shifty X.
This sort of thing has crossed my mind, but imo, modality is already pushing the evergreen envelope, and a variable would push it over the edge.
The actual reminder text of the faction version did say "base" power and toughness. I just failed to include it above. And, right or wrong, we treated it as a Characteristic Defining Ability. Does it indeed work as such when worded thus? Also, what's the effectual difference, if any, between the following two versions of reminder text?
Shift (You may have this creature enter the battlefield with its base power and toughness switched. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
Shift (As this creature enters the battlefield, you may switch its base power and toughness. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
The actual reminder text of the faction version did say "base" power and toughness. I just failed to include it above. And, right or wrong, we treated it as a Characteristic Defining Ability. Does it indeed work as such when worded thus? Also, what's the effectual difference, if any, between the following two versions of reminder text?
Shift (You may have this creature enter the battlefield with its base power and toughness switched. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
Shift (As this creature enters the battlefield, you may switch its base power and toughness. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
Now, a version of shift that sets base P/T would indeed free the mechanic from the weirdness associated with being at the last layer. Unfortunately, the reminder text you've chosen is horribly confusing. See, base P/T setting has its own language, just like any other type of P/T change. Base change can be identified by the verbs "has/have" or "become", a static or variable P/T value, and, yes, the words "base power and toughness". What you've done here is taken one element of base's language and tossed into the language for P/T switching, identifiable by the verb "switch". Not only is the word "base" easily missed upon a cursory read because it otherwise resembles a normal switch effect, but your cross of two different P/T change languages risks confusing players who are a little familiar with the layers system. It would be like seeing a card that reads "Target creature has base power and toughness +3/+3 until the end of the turn." Sure, you might understand how the card works, but the potential to confuse readers is very high. Different P/T changes that operate in different layers should stay in their own lanes to avoid confusion.
In any case, it certainly would not be a CDA, as any creature with a default, numerically printed Power and Toughness cannot have a P/T-setting CDA. In particular, such a shift creature would fail the 5th and final CDA criteria, in that shift only sets P/T conditionally, with the condition being the creature's controller's choice. A proper P/T CDA, outside of the battlefield, would either have to be defined outside of the creature's P/T box or be counted as 0/0 with nothing to define it yet. This also fails the 1st as well, since a creature with a normal P/T doesn't need to have the number defined by an ability.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object’s colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.
Alright, how about a new mechanic that effectively switches the power and toughness of a creature but, like morph, doesn’t use layers or the stack, etc.
Reversey (As each combat begins, may reverse this creature’s power and toughness until end of turn.)
Alright, how about a new mechanic that effectively switches the power and toughness of a creature but, like morph, doesn’t use layers or the stack, etc.
Reversey (As each combat begins, may reverse this creature’s power and toughness until end of turn.)
Switching is still part of the game, and any early-layer version is always going to rub up against the last-layer version as long as both exist, especially when both are applied. Barring a rule change that moves the P/T switching layer around, you can't truly avoid it.
My stance on this mechanic has always been to use regular switching as an educational tool to teach the layer system. Layers are, bar none, the most difficult, yet commonly used, aspect of MTG, and they're much hard to explain than the stack. New players don't need to be plunged straight into corner Humility and dependency cases, but even core sets come with multiple means to change a creature's stats.
So it can't be a CDA but it functions fine as a Base setting ability anyway so that's not a problem. While the comp rules would handle the actual ability fine, it wouldn't be written as swapping at all it would be written something like
702.xxx. Shift
702.xxxa Shift is a static ability that functions as the creature with shift is entering the battlefield. “Shift” means “As this creature enters the battlefield you may have its base power become its printed toughness and its base toughness become its printed power.”
Reminder text without the word switch or swap seems difficult and those words could lead people to believe that its a p/t swapping ability rather than a base setting ability. Clear coherent reminder text might be a significant hurdle for this ability.
I guess you consider ping and fling to be analogous to unblockability, but... ehh, not quite so. Ping's frankly closer to trample. Ding is completely unrelated to evasion and hence not blue. Sling, however, seems more workable. "This creature can assign an additional amount of damage equal to its toughness to players and planeswalkers it assigns combat damage to"? Something like a toughness-focused frenzy that works with trample? I can see it in blue because it's pretty similar to a pump, which is far more universally acceptable than burn. Guesswork actually tried out "millstrike" that counted power PLUS toughness as a UB evergreen and I thought that could work well at the time considering it solves mill-damage's scaling problems by adding on a potentially very big number of toughness.
How about a beginning of combat trigger? I mean, it’s a trigger, but a very basic one, one that’s easy for players to manage mentally. Eh?
Shifty (At the beginning of each combat, you may switch this creature’s power and toughness until end of turn. If you do, effects that change its power and/or toughness this turn are also switched until end of turn.)
EDIT: Or is a nontrigger version possible?
Shifty (As each combat begins, you may switch this creature’s power and toughness until end of turn. If you do, effects that change its power and/or toughness this turn are also switched until end of turn.)
Can you imagine the amount of unnecessary clicks in digital if you have a few of these and just want to keep them back for blocking?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Lifelink, for example, was triggered before being turned into a static evergreen with strange wording.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Shifty (You may have this creature enter the battlefield with its power and toughness switched.)
This “enters the battlefield” version is actually tried and true as a faction mechanic for a custom set. While boring on the surface, it’s surprisingly fun to play.
Does this version also switch p/t effects?
If the creature has a printed P/T that get switched, it would indeed count as a switching effect that works on effects that change power and toughness as well. If you wanted to avoid it, you would need a wording like Primal Clay or Aquamorph Entity.
Alternatively, if we are willing to stretch the reasonable; I believe someone mentioned switching base power and toughness. That on an ETB could be interesting and dynamic without the rules headache of actual switching p/t. The ability would only ask for a decision when you play the creature so there isn't an interruption of gameplay. For the sake of argument I would assume switching base p/t would have no effect on further p/t setting or alterations. Probably defining it more as a CDA rather than an actual swap though I'm not sure how the rules would have to be written to handle such a thing.
Shift(As this creature enters the battlefield you may switch its base power and toughness. This effect lasts indefinitely)
Shift (You may have this creature enter the battlefield with its base power and toughness switched. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
Shift (As this creature enters the battlefield, you may switch its base power and toughness. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
Shifty X (When ~ enters the battlefield, increase either its power or toughness by X. This effect lasts indefinitely.)
A few thoughts on that... First it more or less behaves like a power/toughness switch on creatures with symmetric P/T. Second it can go on a 1/1 french vanilla creature so it would pass this test. Third you could also explore the design space of 1/2 creatures with Shifty X.
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This sort of thing has crossed my mind, but imo, modality is already pushing the evergreen envelope, and a variable would push it over the edge.
Also, I don't want to lose track of this:
Now, a version of shift that sets base P/T would indeed free the mechanic from the weirdness associated with being at the last layer. Unfortunately, the reminder text you've chosen is horribly confusing. See, base P/T setting has its own language, just like any other type of P/T change. Base change can be identified by the verbs "has/have" or "become", a static or variable P/T value, and, yes, the words "base power and toughness". What you've done here is taken one element of base's language and tossed into the language for P/T switching, identifiable by the verb "switch". Not only is the word "base" easily missed upon a cursory read because it otherwise resembles a normal switch effect, but your cross of two different P/T change languages risks confusing players who are a little familiar with the layers system. It would be like seeing a card that reads "Target creature has base power and toughness +3/+3 until the end of the turn." Sure, you might understand how the card works, but the potential to confuse readers is very high. Different P/T changes that operate in different layers should stay in their own lanes to avoid confusion.
In any case, it certainly would not be a CDA, as any creature with a default, numerically printed Power and Toughness cannot have a P/T-setting CDA. In particular, such a shift creature would fail the 5th and final CDA criteria, in that shift only sets P/T conditionally, with the condition being the creature's controller's choice. A proper P/T CDA, outside of the battlefield, would either have to be defined outside of the creature's P/T box or be counted as 0/0 with nothing to define it yet. This also fails the 1st as well, since a creature with a normal P/T doesn't need to have the number defined by an ability.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object’s colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.
Reversey (As each combat begins, may reverse this creature’s power and toughness until end of turn.)
Switching is still part of the game, and any early-layer version is always going to rub up against the last-layer version as long as both exist, especially when both are applied. Barring a rule change that moves the P/T switching layer around, you can't truly avoid it.
My stance on this mechanic has always been to use regular switching as an educational tool to teach the layer system. Layers are, bar none, the most difficult, yet commonly used, aspect of MTG, and they're much hard to explain than the stack. New players don't need to be plunged straight into corner Humility and dependency cases, but even core sets come with multiple means to change a creature's stats.
702.xxx. Shift
702.xxxa Shift is a static ability that functions as the creature with shift is entering the battlefield. “Shift” means “As this creature enters the battlefield you may have its base power become its printed toughness and its base toughness become its printed power.”
Reminder text without the word switch or swap seems difficult and those words could lead people to believe that its a p/t swapping ability rather than a base setting ability. Clear coherent reminder text might be a significant hurdle for this ability.
Sling (Whenever this creature attacks, it deals damage equal to its toughness to defending player.)
Ping (Whenever this creature attacks, it deals 1 damage to defending player.)
Fling (t, Sacrifice this creature: This creature deals damage equal to its power to target player. Fling only as a sorcery.)
Ding (When this creature dies, it deals 1 damage to target player.)
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Can you imagine the amount of unnecessary clicks in digital if you have a few of these and just want to keep them back for blocking?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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