Looking at the investigate SOI cards, i thought that it would been a really nice theme to expand and make an EDH about.
Now, forget that there are like 20 cards with investigate and most of them suck, how would you make an investigate themed legendary creature?
I thought about a bant (all the investigate cards are white, blue or green) Sherlock Holmes-like legend from innistrad.
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony1WUG
Legendary creature - human scout
Whenever you sacrifice a clue, draw two cards.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control ten or more Clues, you win the game
1/4
I thought that an alt-winning condition when you have a lot of clues would be the best way to explain the detective flavor, but honestly, while this has a lot of flavor, i don't think it will be much fun to play with or against.
What do you think? What are your ideas for a detective legend?
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Looking at the investigate SOI cards, i thought that it would been a really nice theme to expand and make an EDH about.
Now, forget that there are like 20 cards with investigate and most of them suck, how would you make an investigate themed legendary creature?
I thought about a bant (all the investigate cards are white, blue or green) Sherlock Holmes-like legend from innistrad.
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony1WUG
Legendary creature - human scout
Whenever you sacrifice a clue, draw two cards.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control ten or more Clues, you win the game
1/4
I thought that an alt-winning condition when you have a lot of clues would be the best way to explain the detective flavor, but honestly, while this has a lot of flavor, i don't think it will be much fun to play with or against.
What do you think? What are your ideas for a detective legend?
Two additional cards? o.o
Thinking about it a Clue legend like that could actually have the win condition "if you have twenty or more cards in hand" as an alternative to counting the Clues themselves. Goes into a similar direction, but you have some other options e. g. 'no maximum hand size' etc.
Too easy?
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Would it be too much to have a legend that gives you something to do with all of the cards you're drawing, rather than just give you more of what you're already doing? Clues give you a much bigger incentive to sacrifice them than, say, treasures, so encouraging players to hoard them sounds counterproductive. Wouldn't it be cool if a clue-based legend turned them all into mana rocks (at a premium CMC, of course)?
Being able to sacrifice a certain number for a bigger effect a la Tamiyo's Journal is an option, too. And the legend could build up counters whenever you sacrifice Clues to win the game.
Thalia, the InspectorGWU
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or another nontoken permanent you control leaves the battlefield, investigate.
Whenever you sacrifice a Clue, you get a victory counter. Then if you have twenty or more victory counters, you win the game.
3/3
Way I figure, investigation is usually done when someone or something disappears and/or turns up dead. There's almost always a clue as to what happened. This design works well with sac, flicker, and bounce effects, not to mention gives you a little compensation whenever an opponent removes your stuff. You can also use proliferate to increase the number of victory counters, but you'll still have to sacrifice a Clue in order to trigger the win condition.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Way I figure, investigation is usually done when someone or something disappears and/or turns up dead.
While this makes sense, in the game we have cards that investigates for entering the battlefield, leaving the battlefield, dealing damage, casting creatures and playing lands. So i think that giving such a trigger to the legend isn't the best.
Spellshapers might be a good idea to bring back, if you're looking for something to do with the extra cards.
This can be an idea, however i wanted to give it an innistrad flavor, so no spellshapers. Also, there is the danger to make a card-drawing legend instead of an investigation legend.
So, a detective, our Sherlock usually, what does he do? he:
1) is able to find more clues than other people
2) is able to use the clues better than other people
3) is able to solve the case with enough clues
This is what the card should do... and it isn't easy. 1 and 2 together would probably make the legend to consistent/redundant. We should either focus on 1 (quantity) or on 2 (quality), then give the 3 ability too.
regarding 1, possible abilities:
- when you do X, investigate. (honestly, a little bland)
- when you investigate, investigate an additional time. (little bland, but better)
regarding 2, possible abilites:
- when you investigate, draw X more
- sacrifice X clues, do X
- you clues gain an ability, for example "t: add 1" or "t: draw a card"
i'm liking the 2 abilities way more than 1. regarding 3, i don't have ideas other than "with enough clues/draw, win the game", but you have to balance the need to sacrifice the clues with the need to hoard them, and to balance the "investigate matter" with the "draw matter". I don't want enter the infinite to become the best investigate card with this guy.
So, my ideas:
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony1WUG
Legendary creature - Human Scout
You have no maximum hand size
Whenever you sacrifice a clue, draw two cards.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if have twenty or more cards in your hand, you win the game.
1/4
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony1WUG
Legendary creature - Human Scout
You have no maximum hand size
When you investigate, investigate an additional time
At the beginning of your upkeep, if have twenty or more cards in your hand, you win the game.
1/4
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony2WUG
Legendary creature - Human Scout
Clues you control have "2, t: draw a card".
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control thirteen or more Clues, you win the game.
1/4
first version
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony1WUG
Legendary creature - Human Scout
Clues you control have "t: draw a card".
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control thirteen or more Clues, you win the game.
1/4
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony1WUG
Legendary creature - Human Scout
Sacrifice a clue: add 1.
Sacrifice three clues: exile target creature
Sacrifice five clues: counter target spell.
Sacrifice thirteen clues: you win the game.
1/4
I'm liking the last two the best, What do you think?
(power level may need rebalancing)
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Generally: Daring Sleuth is a Rouge. Defective Detective is a Spy, and Spies in black border are Rogues. Sherlock would probably be one as well. Scouts usually have much different flavor.
13 may be a correct number, especially on Innistrad, but personally, I prefer my win conditions a little harder.
Just for last two:
Former:
Broken in half. If I have 3 clues, I draw 3 additional cards a turn? Clues are really easy to get. I could maybe see it for 2T, but it would still be too easy probably.
Latter:
Rituals are not green. On board tricks are quite dull if they don't have a relevant cost, those probably need a mana cost activation as well, otherwise they may be too oppressive.
I agree, Clues are sweet, and they demand a legend for themselves. I like your designs.
Broken in half. If I have 3 clues, I draw 3 additional cards a turn? Clues are really easy to get. I could maybe see it for,T, but it would still be too easy probably.
With T i guess it can work. You still pay the same 2 that you would pay with clues, but you get to keep them.
Still, at 4 is still too strong, but i guess at 5 it could be balanced.
It's very hard to balance such a legend, because right now investigate cards are kinda awful, especially for commander.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
What if the Sherlock instead made clues easier to crack by reducing thier ability cost to 1?
That's another great idea, but it still clash with the "amass clues to win" ability
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Now, forget that there are like 20 cards with investigate and most of them suck, how would you make an investigate themed legendary creature?
I thought about a bant (all the investigate cards are white, blue or green) Sherlock Holmes-like legend from innistrad.
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony 1WUG
Legendary creature - human scout
Whenever you sacrifice a clue, draw two cards.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control ten or more Clues, you win the game
1/4
I thought that an alt-winning condition when you have a lot of clues would be the best way to explain the detective flavor, but honestly, while this has a lot of flavor, i don't think it will be much fun to play with or against.
What do you think? What are your ideas for a detective legend?
Two additional cards? o.o
Thinking about it a Clue legend like that could actually have the win condition "if you have twenty or more cards in hand" as an alternative to counting the Clues themselves. Goes into a similar direction, but you have some other options e. g. 'no maximum hand size' etc.
Too easy?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Thalia, the Inspector GWU
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or another nontoken permanent you control leaves the battlefield, investigate.
Whenever you sacrifice a Clue, you get a victory counter. Then if you have twenty or more victory counters, you win the game.
3/3
Way I figure, investigation is usually done when someone or something disappears and/or turns up dead. There's almost always a clue as to what happened. This design works well with sac, flicker, and bounce effects, not to mention gives you a little compensation whenever an opponent removes your stuff. You can also use proliferate to increase the number of victory counters, but you'll still have to sacrifice a Clue in order to trigger the win condition.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Art is life itself.
While this makes sense, in the game we have cards that investigates for entering the battlefield, leaving the battlefield, dealing damage, casting creatures and playing lands. So i think that giving such a trigger to the legend isn't the best.
This can be an idea, however i wanted to give it an innistrad flavor, so no spellshapers. Also, there is the danger to make a card-drawing legend instead of an investigation legend.
So, a detective, our Sherlock usually, what does he do? he:
1) is able to find more clues than other people
2) is able to use the clues better than other people
3) is able to solve the case with enough clues
This is what the card should do... and it isn't easy. 1 and 2 together would probably make the legend to consistent/redundant. We should either focus on 1 (quantity) or on 2 (quality), then give the 3 ability too.
regarding 1, possible abilities:
- when you do X, investigate. (honestly, a little bland)
- when you investigate, investigate an additional time. (little bland, but better)
regarding 2, possible abilites:
- when you investigate, draw X more
- sacrifice X clues, do X
- you clues gain an ability, for example "t: add 1" or "t: draw a card"
i'm liking the 2 abilities way more than 1. regarding 3, i don't have ideas other than "with enough clues/draw, win the game", but you have to balance the need to sacrifice the clues with the need to hoard them, and to balance the "investigate matter" with the "draw matter". I don't want enter the infinite to become the best investigate card with this guy.
So, my ideas:
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony 1WUG
Legendary creature - Human Scout
You have no maximum hand size
Whenever you sacrifice a clue, draw two cards.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if have twenty or more cards in your hand, you win the game.
1/4
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony 1WUG
Legendary creature - Human Scout
You have no maximum hand size
When you investigate, investigate an additional time
At the beginning of your upkeep, if have twenty or more cards in your hand, you win the game.
1/4
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony 2WUG
Legendary creature - Human Scout
Clues you control have "2, t: draw a card".
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control thirteen or more Clues, you win the game.
1/4
first version
Legendary creature - Human Scout
Clues you control have "t: draw a card".
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control thirteen or more Clues, you win the game.
1/4
Sherlock, Inspector of Gavony 1WUG
Legendary creature - Human Scout
Sacrifice a clue: add 1.
Sacrifice three clues: exile target creature
Sacrifice five clues: counter target spell.
Sacrifice thirteen clues: you win the game.
1/4
I'm liking the last two the best, What do you think?
(power level may need rebalancing)
13 may be a correct number, especially on Innistrad, but personally, I prefer my win conditions a little harder.
Just for last two:
Former:
Broken in half. If I have 3 clues, I draw 3 additional cards a turn? Clues are really easy to get. I could maybe see it for 2T, but it would still be too easy probably.
Latter:
Rituals are not green. On board tricks are quite dull if they don't have a relevant cost, those probably need a mana cost activation as well, otherwise they may be too oppressive.
I agree, Clues are sweet, and they demand a legend for themselves. I like your designs.
With T i guess it can work. You still pay the same 2 that you would pay with clues, but you get to keep them.
Still, at 4 is still too strong, but i guess at 5 it could be balanced.
It's very hard to balance such a legend, because right now investigate cards are kinda awful, especially for commander.
That's another great idea, but it still clash with the "amass clues to win" ability
Behind the eyes of truth, is a world of illustions.
Dragon Riderof a Mist Dragonn anyway with the Dragon Riders Clan.