With the benefit of having reviewed all of the unicycles submitted, here is the right version.
In a Laurel/Yanny moment I too felt that Equipment was where I would put a Unicycle, but I tried it as a Vehicle and lo it was correct.
Unicycle1
Artifact - Vehicle (U)
Whenever Unicycle attacks, it gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is the total power of creatures crewing it.
Crew 1 (Tap any number of creatures you control with total power 1 or more: This Vehicle becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.)
1/1
The "base 1 toughness" equipment that was actually submitted in the GDS was right but making it a Vehicle means they can kick out the cycle and wreck it but everybody on the cycle is ok once they stand up. But it's hard to stand still with it so you can't defend very well.
What's "objectively correct" in this design? It doesn't even work, as Unicycle (and Vehicles in general) doesn't "remember" which creature crewed it after it is crewed. It also lacks the element of balance that is important for this top down design. Finally, since when you use an unicycle offensively by accelerating and then jumping out of it? It just doesn't make sense.
Personally, I think Maro is wrong by calling unicycle a Vehicle in Magic terms, as Magic interprets those as something that is removed from its crew. I can imagine someone using train to crush someone and get out of it untouched, but I can't imagine the same for unicycle. I don't say there's no good Vehicle design for unicycle, but I don't think it is this one.
Personally, I think Maro is wrong by calling unicycle a Vehicle in Magic terms, as Magic interprets those as something that is removed from its crew. I can imagine someone using train to crush someone and get out of it untouched, but I can't imagine the same for unicycle. I don't say there's no good Vehicle design for unicycle, but I don't think it is this one.
Agree.
This is another case of Maro being clever for the sake of it (Goblin Test Pilot).
Now imagine you are on the same situation and see Renegade Wheelsmith on a Unicycle. Would you report "I saw a Unicycle being being driven by a Renegade Wheelsmith" or the other way around ?
Personally, I think Maro is wrong by calling unicycle a Vehicle in Magic terms, as Magic interprets those as something that is removed from its crew. I can imagine someone using train to crush someone and get out of it untouched, but I can't imagine the same for unicycle. I don't say there's no good Vehicle design for unicycle, but I don't think it is this one.
Agree.
This is another case of Maro being clever for the sake of it (Goblin Test Pilot).
Now imagine you are on the same situation and see Renegade Wheelsmith on a Unicycle. Would you report "I saw a Unicycle being being driven by a Renegade Wheelsmith" or the other way around ?
So, motorcycle is vehicle or equipment?
what about the single wheel looking thing that Renegade Wheelsmith seems to be piloting in its art?
All over the internet people generally run into this problem of being unable to realise than when you have two classes A and B, that you don't end up with two categories ("A but not B"; "B but not A") but four categories (adding "both" and "neither").
Another thing people have apparently not learnt yet is that categories that are not well-defined cannot be clear-cut.
Unicycle to me is a clear "both" and a "Why are we still talking about this to each other? Even the person originally making this mistake has kinda admitted to it already and all you really can do is continuously telling them their retraction was lacking and should be overhauled, because being 'wrong' was only half their mistake, the other half was speaking in absolutes to begin with despite having access to contrary evidence (which other judges don't seem to have)."
Motorcycle could be both as well since "Motorcycle" is itself a class that includes very many different types and sizes and corner-cases and hybrids with other kinds of objects.
Is a balloon an Equipment, Vehicle or neither? How about a parachute? A shopping cart? A wheeled file cabinet? A cannon ball? A wooden plank?
Think about how a Vedalken would use them, then how about a Goblin would use them. To a Goblin another Goblin is a potential vehicle.
People are trying to measure the length of a coast line with such a low error rate that you will be caught suprised that not just the tides, but every single wave actually moves where you have to make your measurement.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
To a Goblin another Goblin is a potential vehicle.
I hate to cut out your well defined point. But wizards needs to do this, even if only in un4. It would be awful and hillarious.
The subject of what is and isn't a vehicle can be very blurry. Especially when you consider who/what is crewing/wielding them. The same train that is a crew 3 for humans and the like is simply a pair of nunchucks for a Giant. In the end it's probably mostly about expectations. The same with if its in the air it has flying, would probably be, if it looks like you wear it it's equipment; while if it looks like you ride it it's a vehicle.
In a Laurel/Yanny moment I too felt that Equipment was where I would put a Unicycle, but I tried it as a Vehicle and lo it was correct.
Unicycle 1
Artifact - Vehicle (U)
Whenever Unicycle attacks, it gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is the total power of creatures crewing it.
Crew 1 (Tap any number of creatures you control with total power 1 or more: This Vehicle becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.)
1/1
The "base 1 toughness" equipment that was actually submitted in the GDS was right but making it a Vehicle means they can kick out the cycle and wreck it but everybody on the cycle is ok once they stand up. But it's hard to stand still with it so you can't defend very well.
Personally, I think Maro is wrong by calling unicycle a Vehicle in Magic terms, as Magic interprets those as something that is removed from its crew. I can imagine someone using train to crush someone and get out of it untouched, but I can't imagine the same for unicycle. I don't say there's no good Vehicle design for unicycle, but I don't think it is this one.
Agree.
This is another case of Maro being clever for the sake of it (Goblin Test Pilot).
Imagine you are a guard on lookout and see Aethersphere Harvester approaching. What would you report ? "There's a Renegade Wheelsmith approaching driving a Aethersphere Harvester !" or "There is a Aethersphere Harvester approaching !". Obviously the second.
Now imagine you are on the same situation and see Renegade Wheelsmith on a Unicycle. Would you report "I saw a Unicycle being being driven by a Renegade Wheelsmith" or the other way around ?
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
I like your way of telling equipment and vehicle apart.
So, motorcycle is vehicle or equipment?
what about the single wheel looking thing that Renegade Wheelsmith seems to be piloting in its art?
Another thing people have apparently not learnt yet is that categories that are not well-defined cannot be clear-cut.
Unicycle to me is a clear "both" and a "Why are we still talking about this to each other? Even the person originally making this mistake has kinda admitted to it already and all you really can do is continuously telling them their retraction was lacking and should be overhauled, because being 'wrong' was only half their mistake, the other half was speaking in absolutes to begin with despite having access to contrary evidence (which other judges don't seem to have)."
Motorcycle could be both as well since "Motorcycle" is itself a class that includes very many different types and sizes and corner-cases and hybrids with other kinds of objects.
Is a balloon an Equipment, Vehicle or neither? How about a parachute? A shopping cart? A wheeled file cabinet? A cannon ball? A wooden plank?
Think about how a Vedalken would use them, then how about a Goblin would use them. To a Goblin another Goblin is a potential vehicle.
People are trying to measure the length of a coast line with such a low error rate that you will be caught suprised that not just the tides, but every single wave actually moves where you have to make your measurement.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
The subject of what is and isn't a vehicle can be very blurry. Especially when you consider who/what is crewing/wielding them. The same train that is a crew 3 for humans and the like is simply a pair of nunchucks for a Giant. In the end it's probably mostly about expectations. The same with if its in the air it has flying, would probably be, if it looks like you wear it it's equipment; while if it looks like you ride it it's a vehicle.
(Un)fortunately they already made Goblin Sledder.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO