So I'm trying to come up with a "replacement" for regenerate based off of the cards Reassembling Skeleton and Grim Return. The idea is the creature can return from the graveyard tapped, but only on the turn it died.
Here's my rough "sketch" of the mechanic:
2B: Revivify [CREATURE NAME]. (Return this creature from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped. Revivify only if this creature died this turn.)
Thoughts? Does the mechanic seem acceptable as a replacement for regeneration? Also, is the wording / templating correct for the mechanic? Any and all help is greatly appreciated!
I like it. I don't think it needs any fixing. The only real worry I have is if you have multiple cards with revivify in your graveyard, and other players' need to differentiate between them. But that falls into the same realm as face-down permanents, so it's not too big of a deal.
400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. There are eight exceptions to this rule:
[...]
400.7e Abilities that can be activated only on the turn an object moves from one zone to another (for example, "[Activate this ability] only if Awesome Creature died this turn)") can find the new object that it became in the zone it moved to for the remainder of the turn, if that zone is a public zone.
400.7e-g -> f-h
701.REV. Revivify
701.REVa "Revivify [this object]" means "If [this object] was put into your graveyard from the battlefield this turn, return it from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped." While most objects that move from one zone to another become new objects with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence, revivify can find the new object that it becomes and return it to the battlefield. See rule 400.7e.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Somebody else previously suggested a triggered ability that I really liked because it also limits sacrifice shenanigans.
Endure 1G(When this creature is destroyed, you may pay 1G. If you do, return this card from the graveyard to the battlefield tapped under your control.)
2B: Revivify [CREATURE NAME]. (Return this creature from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped. Revivify only if this creature died this turn.)
This doesn't need to be activated before the event happens like regeneration, so it seems like it should just be a normal activated keyword like unearth, scavenge, level up, cycling, etc
Revive 1B(1B: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped. Revive only if this creature died this turn.)
Is there any reason for using the longer and tongue-twistier word 'revivify' when 'revive' would do?
Is there any reason for the tapped element, apart for continuity with regeneration? The cases where it's relevant (revive after attack, can't block next turn) are pretty specific and it costs you an extra word.
Is there any reason for using the longer and tongue-twistier word 'revivify' when 'revive' would do?
Is there any reason for the tapped element, apart for continuity with regeneration? The cases where it's relevant (revive after attack, can't block next turn) are pretty specific and it costs you an extra word.
Revivify is just the word I'm using for now. I haven't settled on a final name for the mechanic.
As for why it comes back tapped, it's for both continuity and flavor. It should take time for the creature to be back to 100%.
@Willows.
There is quite a lot more circumstances than the one listed that aren't obscure. If they target it with a kill spell before blocks, this version means it can't block when it comes back. If the creature has haste or another card is giving it haste, it still can't attack. If it's killed during your turn and has any tap ability or is being given a tap ability, it can't use that on the next turn. There is more.
The tapped versions is generally safer developmentally as well as being flavourful and continuity preserving. There is still an argument for the untapped version, but I think the tapped version is a safer bet generally.
The mechanic, as Silvercut put it, looks set to print. I seriously have only one thing to say that might undermine it being good enough to be the new regenerate, and that is that it doesn't capture all of the flavour of regenerate. For black it does as black regenerate is flavoured as resurrection, but green is flavoured as fast-healing, Wolverine style. This doesn't really capture that.
To be honest, I don't think we as an audience have enough information about this issue yet to really solve it, as we haven't been told exactly why regeneration warrants replacing, and not just removing, and exactly what kind of replacement is needed to fill the slot. Unless, of course, we can figure it out ourselves.
We know exactly why regenerate needs to go. Per MaRo, the issue is flavor. Regenerate neither heals nor regenerates. It puts a shield on your creature that saves it from dying and removes it from combat.
I agree with Silvercut's suggestion, and that's exactly what I was going to suggest.
Movexig, I understand your argument, but Regenerate also uses the wording 'destroyed' and people appear to get it the first time you explain it.
Perhaps we could say something like, "When ~ dies from damage or being destroyed"? I'm not sure how much clearer that is, but it does make it more clear that 'destroy' is a specific action.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic!
Lead Tesla, a community set designed by everyone and led by me, over at Goblin Artisans. Index of articles here!
If you want to get overly noob friendly, I guess see Darksteel Myr.
When this creature dies, if it was destroyed by damage or an effect that says "destroy", ...
After thinking about it, the activated version could key off of being destroyed also. It extends the window for when the player has to pay the cost until end of turn.
... Revive only if this creature was destroyed by damage or an effect that says "destroy" this turn.
Revive 2B(2B: Return this creature from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped. Revive only if this creature died this turn as a result of lethal damage or a “destroy” effect.)
Not 100% sure if it should be worded:
A.) ... if this creature died this turn as a result of lethal damage or a “destroy” effect.
or
B.) ... if this creature died as a result of lethal damage or a “destroy” effect this turn.
We know exactly why regenerate needs to go. Per MaRo, the issue is flavor. Regenerate neither heals nor regenerates. It puts a shield on your creature that saves it from dying and removes it from combat.
That's only the technicality. The shield actually removes all damage, i.e. healing and regeneration. Regenerate does what all these so-called replacements don't do: regenerate keeps the permanent in play, and that's important with Auras and Equipment and counters and tokens. Also as a keyword action, you can put as rider it on any spell and ability. A new keyword activated ability is much more limited in usage and applicability.
I was thinking making a static ability, but it already exists as indestructible. So regenerate as a keyword action is a good complement to indestructible. Especially when color pie flavor is concerned, black is more likely to regenerate than indestructible, and vice versa for white. R&D might say they want a replacement. But fact is, they still print enough of it, even at common.
That is a good point, Lord of Atlantis, but a lot of players don't see that flavor. They think the creature is dying and coming back from the grave. (Especially on black creatures with regeneration.)
If we do want to capture that flavor, though, it's relatively simple:
Healing x(When this creature would die as a result of lethal damage or a “destroy” effect, you may pay x to have it heal instead of die.)
And then you can key off of 'healing' in a much more intuitive manner than 'regenerating' does. ("When it regenerates this way"? Yuck.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic!
Lead Tesla, a community set designed by everyone and led by me, over at Goblin Artisans. Index of articles here!
Based on the reminder text of Totem Armor I'm confident that death by lethal damage is considered "destroy"ed. Hopefully that helps with your own reminder text.
That's only the technicality. The shield actually removes all damage, i.e. healing and regeneration. Regenerate does what all these so-called replacements don't do: regenerate keeps the permanent in play, and that's important with Auras and Equipment and counters and tokens. Also as a keyword action, you can put as rider it on any spell and ability. A new keyword activated ability is much more limited in usage and applicability.
I was thinking making a static ability, but it already exists as indestructible. So regenerate as a keyword action is a good complement to indestructible. Especially when color pie flavor is concerned, black is more likely to regenerate than indestructible, and vice versa for white. R&D might say they want a replacement. But fact is, they still print enough of it, even at common.
The spell version is either Grim Return or Saffi Eriksdotter, which is a little clearer for players that don't know the exact why that regeneration works.
Return target creature card that died this turn from your graveyard to the battlefield.
The Aura problem though is why I still overall prefer regeneration.
Here's my rough "sketch" of the mechanic:
2B: Revivify [CREATURE NAME]. (Return this creature from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped. Revivify only if this creature died this turn.)
Thoughts? Does the mechanic seem acceptable as a replacement for regeneration? Also, is the wording / templating correct for the mechanic? Any and all help is greatly appreciated!
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
[...]
400.7e Abilities that can be activated only on the turn an object moves from one zone to another (for example, "[Activate this ability] only if Awesome Creature died this turn)") can find the new object that it became in the zone it moved to for the remainder of the turn, if that zone is a public zone.
400.7e-g -> f-h
701.REV. Revivify
701.REVa "Revivify [this object]" means "If [this object] was put into your graveyard from the battlefield this turn, return it from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped." While most objects that move from one zone to another become new objects with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence, revivify can find the new object that it becomes and return it to the battlefield. See rule 400.7e.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Endure 1G (When this creature is destroyed, you may pay 1G. If you do, return this card from the graveyard to the battlefield tapped under your control.)
This doesn't need to be activated before the event happens like regeneration, so it seems like it should just be a normal activated keyword like unearth, scavenge, level up, cycling, etc
Revive 1B (1B: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped. Revive only if this creature died this turn.)
Is there any reason for using the longer and tongue-twistier word 'revivify' when 'revive' would do?
Is there any reason for the tapped element, apart for continuity with regeneration? The cases where it's relevant (revive after attack, can't block next turn) are pretty specific and it costs you an extra word.
Revivify is just the word I'm using for now. I haven't settled on a final name for the mechanic.
As for why it comes back tapped, it's for both continuity and flavor. It should take time for the creature to be back to 100%.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
There is quite a lot more circumstances than the one listed that aren't obscure. If they target it with a kill spell before blocks, this version means it can't block when it comes back. If the creature has haste or another card is giving it haste, it still can't attack. If it's killed during your turn and has any tap ability or is being given a tap ability, it can't use that on the next turn. There is more.
The tapped versions is generally safer developmentally as well as being flavourful and continuity preserving. There is still an argument for the untapped version, but I think the tapped version is a safer bet generally.
The mechanic, as Silvercut put it, looks set to print. I seriously have only one thing to say that might undermine it being good enough to be the new regenerate, and that is that it doesn't capture all of the flavour of regenerate. For black it does as black regenerate is flavoured as resurrection, but green is flavoured as fast-healing, Wolverine style. This doesn't really capture that.
To be honest, I don't think we as an audience have enough information about this issue yet to really solve it, as we haven't been told exactly why regeneration warrants replacing, and not just removing, and exactly what kind of replacement is needed to fill the slot. Unless, of course, we can figure it out ourselves.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
Movexig, I understand your argument, but Regenerate also uses the wording 'destroyed' and people appear to get it the first time you explain it.
Perhaps we could say something like, "When ~ dies from damage or being destroyed"? I'm not sure how much clearer that is, but it does make it more clear that 'destroy' is a specific action.
Lead Tesla, a community set designed by everyone and led by me, over at Goblin Artisans. Index of articles here!
When this creature dies, if it was destroyed by damage or an effect that says "destroy", ...
After thinking about it, the activated version could key off of being destroyed also. It extends the window for when the player has to pay the cost until end of turn.
... Revive only if this creature was destroyed by damage or an effect that says "destroy" this turn.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
Revive 2B (2B: Return this creature from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped. Revive only if this creature died this turn as a result of lethal damage or a “destroy” effect.)
Not 100% sure if it should be worded:
A.) ... if this creature died this turn as a result of lethal damage or a “destroy” effect.
or
B.) ... if this creature died as a result of lethal damage or a “destroy” effect this turn.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
That's only the technicality. The shield actually removes all damage, i.e. healing and regeneration. Regenerate does what all these so-called replacements don't do: regenerate keeps the permanent in play, and that's important with Auras and Equipment and counters and tokens. Also as a keyword action, you can put as rider it on any spell and ability. A new keyword activated ability is much more limited in usage and applicability.
I was thinking making a static ability, but it already exists as indestructible. So regenerate as a keyword action is a good complement to indestructible. Especially when color pie flavor is concerned, black is more likely to regenerate than indestructible, and vice versa for white. R&D might say they want a replacement. But fact is, they still print enough of it, even at common.
........................
If we do want to capture that flavor, though, it's relatively simple:
Healing x (When this creature would die as a result of lethal damage or a “destroy” effect, you may pay x to have it heal instead of die.)
And then you can key off of 'healing' in a much more intuitive manner than 'regenerating' does. ("When it regenerates this way"? Yuck.)
Lead Tesla, a community set designed by everyone and led by me, over at Goblin Artisans. Index of articles here!
The spell version is either Grim Return or Saffi Eriksdotter, which is a little clearer for players that don't know the exact why that regeneration works.
Return target creature card that died this turn from your graveyard to the battlefield.
The Aura problem though is why I still overall prefer regeneration.
Revive [cost] ([cost]: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped. Revive only if this creature died this turn.)
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice