Nothing overly creative here, just some designs that fill in gaps. Going for playable (Standard or Modern) but not obsoleting playable creatures already in print.
There is no other X/4 vigilance creature below three mana. I think this would be fine at 1/3 for GG.
I'm really thankful to silvercut for his response - it REALLY got me thinking! At first I wasn't sure about my original suggestion anymore. Yes, I wanted it to be good, but I'm not a fan of obsoleting strong cards that are already seeing play. So I had a look at what creatures had similar mana costs, stats, and abilities. Ezuri's Archers, Kalonian Tusker, Canopy Spider, and Sporecap Spider came to mind.
None of those cards are particularly "playable", although I considered them a reasonable place to start. Could bumping Canopy Spider's cost from 1G to GG justify another point of toughness and vigilance? Maybe. The Archers could be "modified" into Webwatch Spider by giving it +0/+2 and changing the pump ability to vigilance for the additional G.
Then I remembered Plated Seastrider, because it's so similar to the Spider in size and mana cost, except that it's in blue, Magic's weakest creature colour. Would green get the same creature with a couple keywords tacked on for no extra cost? Seemed that way.
At that point, I realized that I could probably close the case in favour of the 1/4 Spider. But I decided to expand on what I'd started, to see if more insights into the relationships between casting cost, power, and toughness might be found. I like to recognize nuances in data patterns. Sometimes a single point of toughness makes the difference between a creature being poor and being great. I enjoy using math and logic to solve puzzles. The question has evolved from "should Webwatch Spider have 3 toughness or 4?" to "what combinations of power and toughness are possible for any given mana cost?". And yes, I've been known to get into this kind of thing a few times before, including here in 2007, but this time I've decided to do it right. If it's not your thing, and for many amateur designers it won't be, that's okay. But I invite you to check it out, learn something, and contribute. This is by no means a completed project, and even when it is, it will need updating and more analysis as time goes by and more creatures are printed. You're welcome to use these data in any way you'd like - they're not my data! I've only collected, arranged, and partially analyzed them.
"The master list" - 120 creatures that define the boundaries of power and toughness at any given casting cost.
You've probably already noticed some patterns in the master list. I'll explain how it was generated:
1) Thus far, I've excluded creatures with more than 2 coloured mana in their mana costs, or cmc > 6. I also haven't ventured into multicolored mana costs yet.
2) I only look at Modern legal cards from core sets and regular expansions, and exclude cards like Cathodion that were designed before rules changes (like "manaburn") boosted their playability. This ensures I don't include design decisions made long ago, for special sets like Commander, or under different rules.
3) I excluded creatures with anything that could be considered a drawback. That's subjective of course, but it isn't useful to get bogged down here. Abilities that give your opponent an option, or take away an option from you, are drawbacks. Extra costs are drawbacks. "Bad" keywords like defender, champion, and fading are drawbacks. Having extra card types like legendary or enchantment are drawbacks. I also consider infect, which can look like a bonus, to be a drawback. I like the motto "when in doubt, throw it out". How about Conundrum Sphinx? In the end, I decided it's ability (which is forced upon you) isn't a bonus in all (or even almost all) situations. Therefore, I can't conclude that Conundrum Sphinx proves 2UU should get a 4/4+. Dryad Militant's ability probably wouldn't be considered a drawback because you'd have to go out of your way to play it in a deck where the ability hurt you. But again, even though this point is subjective, the neverending debate about "strictly better" is for another thread! Once all creatures with drawbacks are discarded, only vanilla creatures and creatures with bonuses remain, which is what we want. For shorthand, I write Scathe Zombies as 2/2, and Phyrexian Ghoul as 2/2+.
4) The "value" of a point of toughness, in relation to the "value" of a point of power, is unknown and unknowable. In design, we can't freely convert power to toughness or toughness to power. Just because a 2B 1/6 is fair doesn't mean a 2B 6/1 is fair too. Power does seem to be "worth" more than toughness, but by how much differs between the colours, so power and toughness are different aspects of a card and are analyzed separately. (Great-Horn Krushok and Feral Krushok are an interesting example of this, and perhaps contain more clues about design than it seems.) 5) Mythics appear to follow a different pattern and are often +1/+1 bigger than creatures of the other 3 rarities. Cards like Indomitable Archangel, Baneslayer Angel, Sun Titan, Torrent Elemental, Grave Titan, Thundermaw Hellkite, Inferno Titan, Transcendent Master, and Ojutai Exemplars could be included in a different iteration of the master list, but I've chosen to leave mythics off this one. (It seems to me that mythics are allowed to break the rules for financial reasons, so I choose to leave them out of this strictly design discussion.)
6) Now, the thousands of creatures in the game have been whittled down to a few hundred. All that's left is to identify the ones with the best stats at each mana cost. A 2/3 is better than a 2/2+ for the same cost, so we'd throw out the 2/2+. If a 2/3+ or a 2/4 got printed at the same cost, then it would knock the 2/3 off the list. Tie-breaking is subjective, but I look at creature types as well as the nature of the creature's abilities to decide which one makes it on the master list. Perhaps another version could list all of the tied creatures, but I don't find that necessary. Notice that out of all the creatures that cost , only 0/4+, 1/2+, and 2/1+ are necessary to describe the range of possibilities currently available at that cost. No 3-power creatures without drawbacks have been printed at that mana cost (and I don't expect any ever will). But if a 0/5, 1/3, or 2/2 (without drawbacks) ever get printed for W, it will knock something off the master list and take its spot.
The creatures on the master list can then be arranged for further analysis like so:
version 1 version 2 version 3
Right away, you probably noticed that the data forms non-random shapes which differ between the colours. For more on that, see the post below this one, where I'll go over analysis I've done on the master list. But first, I'm asking for your help. This is an ongoing project that I intend to keep updated as time goes by, and I keep finding improvements to it, so I'm sure there are more to be found! I've used Gatherer and my brain for most of it, but Gatherer's search has limitations. For example, if there was a creature out there like this...
Spikedog - 2G
Creature - Hound
When Spikedog enters the battlefield, put 2 +1/+1 counters on target creature.
1/1
... then I'd consider it a 3/3+ for 2G, and it would knock Centaur Courser off the list. Gatherer wouldn't have helped me find Spikedog though. Another area where I'm probably missing data is hybrid mana costs. so PLEASE rack your brains and suggest improvements! When the list is complete, the creatures on it reveal the relationship in Magic between cost and size. It doesn't tell us anything new, because it's just a collection of data arranged a certain way, but there are some pretty interesting insights coming out of it. While it's true we aren't constrained by all the same rules and guidelines that official (paid) designers are, it's still useful to analyze what they've already come up with, to glean what they consider to be the boundaries of design, and then make better decisions about our own (unofficial) design work.
Chinpuncher - 4
Artifact Creature - Golem
Whenever Chinpuncher deals damage to an opponent, you may untap it.
4/2
Confines: (noun) boundaries that enclose or set limits.
As I mentioned in the first post, when arranged in visual form, the data from the master list takes on non-random shapes. It isn't a coincidence that red's is shifted right and blue's left, or that green's is the widest, for example. Indeed, the shapes created by the data can give us the confines of that colour's creatures. Of course, exactly where the lines are drawn is up for interpretation, but it's possible to come to a pretty good estimation without much hassle. Here's my current version of the confines.
(data is not meant to be legible on this image)
Shapes shifted to the right are good at creatures with high power. (Red and green are best, black is pretty good, white has great weenies but terrible fatties, and blue sucks.)
Shapes shifted to the left are good at creatures with high toughness. (Red is by far the worst of all the colours.)
The position of the top-right point of the polygon indicates how aggressive a creature's weenies are (white and green > red > black > blue) and the bottom-right point of the polygon indicates how aggressive a creature's fatties are (green and red > black > white and blue). Left is less aggressive and right is more.
Still working on what the positions of the other 2 points on the polygon indicate.
It's clear the shapes created by the data on the master list are unique to that colour, and are that shape for a reason. If you're not convinced, pull up the data in MSPaint and draw some lines yourself. I'd be very interested to see what other people come up with!
Of course, creatures outside the confines are still possible, but are increasingly less likely the further out of bounds they get. Check out Kami of Old Stone, sticking out on the "butt" side of white's confines. (And for fun, see where Force of Savagery would be.) The confines are more a guideline than an actual hard limit.
Now notice all the holes in each colour's shape! Some along the edges of the shape, and some embedded inside it. A hole doesn't always mean there's no creature with that particular power and mana cost in existence, it just means that if there is a creature at that power and mana cost, it doesn't have a high enough toughness to be worth mentioning on the master list. With the holes, each shape looks like a game of sudoku, needing some math and puzzle-solving skills to complete. As you'll see in the next post, we can fill in the holes to generate creatures that are automatically of an appropriate power level AND within the confines of that colour's range.
Stamp's Homeguard - WW
Creature - Human Knight
Whenever Stamp's Homeguard becomes blocked, untap it.
1/4
We can take analysis of the master list and confines in many directions, and to many different depths. (Please, post some of your own, in addition to commenting on mine.) In this post, I'll show one way the data can be massaged to generate about 200 sets of creature stats paired with mana costs.
"Filling the holes"
Of course, while the creatures this method generates will be at a consistent power level and are within the colour's confines, not all of them are likely to see the light of day. For example, there's absolutely no reason, according to cards already in print (and common sense), that red can't have...
Human Hero - 1R
Creature - Human Warrior (C) A hero is someone who gives it everything they've got, fighting for what's right until the end, whether they win or not.
2/2
... but I doubt they'll ever print it, if they haven't by now. Goblin Furrier alone is evidence enough. It's proven itself unplayable, and that has nothing to do with the "drawback". They just aren't going to print a 1R 2/2 without a drawback even though it would never be played - it is already obsoleted by all the powerful red weenies they've printed in recent years at R, RR, 2R, and 1RR. Perhaps the official/paid designers are stubborn, and they're abiding by an old rule never to print it? Maybe they think printing it now would be an obvious indication how far power creep has advanced? Who knows. And there are plenty of other holes that will probably never be filled, for various reasons. This method doesn't tell us what WILL be printed, but it does tell us what a creature's power and toughness might be if it WERE printed.
Here's my current worksheet of strong creatures, generated by filling in holes, adjusting numbers, analyzing patterns in total power plus toughness, comparing colours against each other, etc. It will change as I continue working on it, with feedback and input from others, and also as new creatures are printed.
The above creatures are meant to be on the strong side - my educated guess on the upper limit of a creature's stats. If printed as vanilla creatures, many of them would be playable in Standard and Casual formats. If printed with additional bonuses, some would become overly powerful, but others (mainly at higher mana costs) would be a good power level - playable in constructed decks across formats. Everybody will have their own interpretation of how to massage the data, and what to do with the results.
Some creatures on the worksheet already exist, including Phyrexian Walker, Memnite, Kraken Hatchling, Kalonian Tusker, and Indomitable Ancients. According to this method anyhow, these vanilla creatures are already "good enough". And that's true, they've all seen play. My aim for the creatures generated by the strong worksheet is they be of a similar caliber.
Cliffrunner Giant - 3G
Creature - Giant
5/5
Here is the above worksheet laid over the confines shapes. All the holes embedded in the shapes have been filled, and most of the ones along the edges have too.
(data is not meant to be legible on this image)
In the next post, I'll go over some variations of "filling the holes".
Here's a variation on "filling the holes", this time generating a set of safe creatures - ones that could be printed as-is without any fear they would make waves in any constructed metagames. Many are likely limited playable and some of the lower costed ones would be playable in Standard or Casual. If given a keyword or other small bonus in addition to these stats, they'd have a better chance at seeing play. Anything weaker than the creatures generated here probably aren't suitable for print except as limited filler.
Safe analysis worksheet:
Here, I'm also going to "flesh out" (with names and creature types) all 37 green creatures on the strong list from the above post, in vanilla form. That won't be necessary for all the colours, unless somebody is very bored.
For 4GG, the precedent is 12/12 minor downside (the bad Tribute 6 card from Born of the Gods). It's not always a 12/12 but in most gamestates that is what the opponent chooses. It's also completely unplayable in Constructed.
3GG has an 8/8 upside creature (the 4/4 Soulbond guy from Avacyn Restored) - it's not always 8/8 but it usually is. Other cards to consider at that mana cost are the 'sorta like a 4/8 trample' Spectral Force, and the 'sorta like a 10/4 trample as it kills in 2 swings but dies to sorcery speed 4 damage spells' Kalonian Hydra.
Finally, a good number of the cards that are compared to are so weak that cards that are strictly* better would not be playable. For instance, no competitive deck would ever run a 3/13 vanilla creature for 2WW despite that being a strict* upgrade on the 2/10 creature. Wizards don't usually push vanilla creatures so the baselines are set pretty low - for instance, in many Standard formats, I do not believe a 3GG 10/10 trample would have been even considered remotely close to playable, and that's clearly pushed well beyond what is ever printed. Had that hypothetical card been in RTR, it would never have been maindecked in Standard and might have been sideboarded in for matchups that weren't against control or Olivia Voldaren.
* - I use the 'equivalent or better 99% of the time that you draw it' measure of strictly here.
You're quite right, sirgog, many of the results would still not be playable in Vintage formats. Creatures above 3 mana just aren't played for their power or toughness in that format.
You're quite right, sirgog, many of the results would still not be playable in Vintage formats. Creatures above 3 mana just aren't played for their power or toughness in that format.
I was talking Standard. A 3/13 for 2WW would be a ten cent rare unless it had Timmy demand, and a 10/10 trample for 3GG would have been unplayable in ISD-RTR Standard (although it would be pretty strong - maybe even worryingly so - in today's Standard).
I like this list, it will be very helpful when I start working on the set that's brewing in my head. One card you forgot to add for green is Leatherback Baloth sure it's vanilla, but it also comes down turn 2.
Some multi color cards from the recent ravnica are
I don't have the time to read this all right now, but later tonight I will. At first glance, very good work. Don't forget my list from your original thread in CCCG, which also includes all combinations of two-color gold and hybrid. Red and green are still missing, I'll probably do red tonight and green after that as soon as I can. Further feedback coming later after I read it all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
While I appreciate all the work you've put into this Rancored Elf, I don't see an enormous amount of value to be gained from this procedure. Most of these trends are explicitly stated (red creatures have higher power than toughness, black creatures vice versa) or implied by design trends (green gets bigger small creatures, white gets smaller small creatures), we don't need a huge statistical breakdown. What are you trying to achieve with this list? What do you hope to discover?
You're quite right, sirgog, many of the results would still not be playable in Vintage formats. Creatures above 3 mana just aren't played for their power or toughness in that format.
I was talking Standard. A 3/13 for 2WW would be a ten cent rare unless it had Timmy demand..
That's fine. I'm not intending to exclude Timmy - he's a player too, so if a card is playable to Timmy, it's playable. A 3/13 for 2WW would certainly see play, just not from the Spikes you're thinking about.
You're right though, there are some creature casting costs that are unplayable, even in Standard, no matter the power and toughness. 6 mana is a lot for a competitive creature outside limited. In some formats, like Vintage, anything over 3 is unlikely to see play for power and toughness alone. Like I said above, "plenty of the holes will probably never be filled, for various reasons" and "not all of them should see the light of day". If there's no power and toughness that would make a casting cost playable in a particular format, then of course this method won't churn out a playable creature at that cost. Impossible tasks are impossible. We know that in recent Standard, a 5/5+ for 2GG sees play, even when the + is fairly minor, even if the creature is legendary. But at 5 mana, and definitely at 6 mana, most Standard decks wouldn't want a creature for stats alone, unless maybe it was ridiculously big.
But for mana costs where no stats are big enough to make the creature playable in ANY format, I'm not going to leave a blank. I'm going to fill it in, according to cards of similar costs and sizes that have been printed. Also, nobody said the vanilla creatures generated by the data have to stay vanilla. Think of it as a shell, that is within the confines of what that cost can produce, and go from there. Maybe the boring vanilla 6/4 for 4R above could be adapted into the following:
Meadopia Assault Team - 4R
Creature - Human Knight
First strike, protection from white
6/3
No creature above 3 mana is played for combat in Vintage, so it will never see play there no matter what we do, and that's okay. Not every card has to be Vintage playable.
Some of those changes are significant enough to adjust the confines a bit, as well as my "strong" analysis. Thank you! I hope there are more we haven't remembered yet. Input gladly welcomed.
I don't have the time to read this all right now, but later tonight I will. At first glance, very good work. Don't forget my list from your original thread in CCCG, which also includes all combinations of two-color gold and hybrid. Red and green are still missing, I'll probably do red tonight and green after that as soon as I can. Further feedback coming later after I read it all.
I'm going to scour your post in the CCCG forum for data I can use in my posts, this evening. Feel free to post any/all of it here too, the more on this topic we can get in one place, the better. I think it'll be a useful resource for designers.
Every colour except blue can get 2/2 small downside at 1 mana. White hasn't had it, but could get 2/2 no downside at uncommon in any modern set, and such a card would likely see only fringe Standard play.
Precedents:
Black: Diregraf Ghoul, Rakdos Cackler
Red: Rakdos Cackler, Zurgo, Kird Ape (2/3 moderate downside)
Green: Experiment One (usually a 2/2 attacker on turn 2), Sunblade Elf, Wild Nactyl
White: Isamaru, Loam Lion, Champion of the Parish
Now none of those are strictly equal to 2/2 for 1 (some - Cackler, Ghoul and Isamaru - are strictly worse), but all of these are very close to 2/2 for C.
On Polukranos, you mention that the card is 5/5 small upside. I used to think that, but now I disagree - Polukranos saw the most play when Master of Waves was a Standard powerhouse, and Polukranos trumps the Master hard. It also gives you a fringe out against a resolved Hornet Queen, trading with all 4 of the tokens if you have 9 mana, or 3 if you have 7, either way putting you at least a little bit back into the game. His upside is actually deceptively big.
Deadbridge Goliath also had a fairly big upside for a 4 mana 5/5 (4GG, exile the Goliath that died to a Supreme Verdict early: Target animated Mutavault becomes utterly insane until end of game) and it never saw play. The bar for 4 mana combat creatures is set very high. Desecration Demon (6/6 flying, modest drawback) and Phyrexian Obliterator (5/5, *insane* bonus) got there. Goliath did not.
Edit: Also it doesn't yet exist, but I feel a 4/4 trample for 1GG is very printable. Precedent: Loxodon Smiter.
As a contribution, copying and pasting my list from the other thread here, with red added. Green will come in the next days. Refer to the linked post to know how this list was obtained (I'll repeat here too as I finish it). I'll do any further updates right here rather than on the other thread from now on.
EDIT 3/10: added green. Monocolor blue, black, red, and green have been checked and I'm sure about them. The rest will be checked too as soon as possible.
EDIT 3/11: double checked the whole list, now the list is complete and accurate at the most of my possibilities. I made some changes, mainly due to the fact that my first searches didn't have the "legal in Modern" restriction. The whole list of changes is in the following spoiler:
Also, some due explanations on the procedure I used:
Each card in the list is supposed to be an answer to the question:
"Given an exact mana cost and an exact power, which is the card with the highest toughness among Modern-legal cards without drawbacks that have that mana cost and that power?"
In practice, all I did was translate that question into a Gatherer search that I then repeated for all different mana costs. I also set the search in such a way that it produced an output with the creatures ordered with ascending power. That allowed me to easily distinguish the different power values. Then, I looked through each group of creatures with that mana cost and power manually searching for the greatest toughness without any form of drawbacks. For the sake of simplicity, I had Gatherer exclude legendary creatures and creatures with defender (the two most common drawbacks) automatically. No restrictions on power and toughness were included in the search.
In summary, I was looking for cards that fit all the following criteria at the same time:
- Modern-legal
- Given exact mana cost
- Given exact power
- No drawbacks of any form. In a few specific cases, I included cards with potential drawbacks, explaining why I did right next to the card.
The mana cost was subject to the following criteria:
- Maximum converted mana cost 6
- No more than three colored mana cost (except for hybrids without generic mana, in which cases I arrived to five colored mana symbol to include the Demigod of Revenge cycle)
- For gold costs, only costs with one colored mana of each color have been included.
Finally, be aware that because of the way Gatherer works, there are the following exceptions:
- creatures with variable P/T or */* are not included
- creatures that enter the battlefield with a given number of +1/+1 counters are also not included
Further data analysis will follow in an unspecified time.
EDIT 3/14: List updated with cards from DTK (see post #31)
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Are you looking only p/t to cmc ratio or are you factoring in strength of abilities as well?
I'm not really going by any ratios, but that's certainly another way the data could be analyzed. What I've done here so far is ask the question "what is the highest toughness a creature without drawbacks has, if it costs and it has 0 power?", and then repeat the question for each mana cost and each power. Where the abilities come in, is I indicate on the master list the creatures that have positive-only abilities. A vanilla looks like 2/2 and a creature with positive-only abilities is noted as 2/2+. Creatures with any negative ability had to be discarded altogether. I don't keep a note of how powerful I consider their abilities. That's only relevant here when there's a tie to be broken. Since I only list one creature at each cost/power/toughness, when there's a tie, I look at creature types and abilities, and record whichever I feel is most powerful. Bravelion (see above) likes to record all the ties in his data. My project is mainly concerned with the relationship between power, toughness, and mana cost. I've had to simplify the issue of abilities, for ease of analysis. Someone else might choose to take it more in that direction, that would be cool.
Every colour except blue can get 2/2 small downside at 1 mana.
Yeah. In my "strong" analysis, green and white both get 2/2 for 1. That's a taboo, and people are going to freak out about it, but that's how the numbers stack up. Of course, I'm not predicting such a card is going to see print. Just saying, 2 toughness is the correct amount for a 2-power creature costing G (or W). Looks like red gets a 2/1 for 1 (perhaps a Hound, as a nod to both Savannah Lions and Jackal Pup). After correcting Deathrite Shaman's absence from the master list (how could I forget it?!), I have to believe black should also get the 2/1 for 1 (if we're going for "strong", and I am). As for blue getting a 2/1 for 1, the numbers don't support that. For I think 1/2+ is the best we'll see.
The bar for 4 mana combat creatures is set very high.
I think Goliath did see some competitive play, but regardless, not much. You're right, the bar is high for 4 mana even in Standard. My "strong" analysis popped out a 5/6 for 2GG, but considering your points, I think if I wanted the creature Standard playable I'd also have to give it a little something-something. Haste or trample are too much, reach or vigilance would be okay. Something in that range anyhow. 6/3 for the same cost would probably also be fine, but that's on the verge of being outside the confines for green (top-heavy). Could still happen.
Ballistahead Wurm - 1GGG
Creature - Wurm (R)
6/6
At first glance, shockingly large. But it actually doesn't obsolete as much as you'd think, and obviously it's very vulnerable. If it's to be played, I wouldn't want it any smaller
it doesn't yet exist, but I feel a 4/4 trample for 1GG is very printable.
That's strong indeed, but I do agree with you. I'd like to see it without a lot of Tribal upside (Treefolk, maybe also Warrior?) and likely at rare. It obsoletes a lot, but I agree with you that it could be done if you want it played. It doesn't feel too inappropriate to me but I imagine some people would have a negative reaction to the idea. 3/3 for GG is safe, so I think +1/+1 and trample for is cool. I have decks that would play it. 3 mana is such a sweet spot for green.
Thanks again for that work, you've done so much! I'm going through it tonight and I'll keep updating the first posts as I go.
I've already come across Old Ghastbark (3WW 3/6), surprisingly good enough to get on the master list. Added.
And I just read about a new card coming in Dragons of Tarkir (spoiler warning......) which costs 1BB and is a 3/3+ Warrior. That's new, so it expands the master list. Nice to see it was essentially predicted in the analysis. I wonder what other stuff the new set will have for us?
EDIT: I just realized Tephraderm isn't Modern-legal, so I'll take it off the master list. There's a 4/5+ for 2RR anyhow.
EDIT2: Here's the updated master list. Please suggest more corrections.
Cool. I think this will be useful for set designs because it gives a rough guide of what's O. K. at a given converted mana cost. Thank you very much RE and bravelion83 for the hard work you've put in here.
Also, while I don't think this formula is terribly accurate, I think it might be a useful addition to this thread/discussion:
That formula is not useful at all, as it assumes that two mana and a card is twice the cost of one mana and one card, and it finds some cards that are only fringe playable in Modern (Loxodon Smiter, Memnite, Skylasher) to be 'broken', and it assumes that power should correlate with rarity. Presumably the person who made it up feels that Delver of Secrets should be a mythic and something like Phage the Untouchable or Ghastly Conscription (high mana cost, medium board impact, very flashy text) should be common.
Thanks again for that work, you've done so much! I'm going through it tonight and I'll keep updating the first posts as I go.
I've already come across Old Ghastbark (3WW 3/6), surprisingly good enough to get on the master list. Added.
And I just read about a new card coming in Dragons of Tarkir (spoiler warning......) which costs 1BB and is a 3/3+ Warrior. That's new, so it expands the master list. Nice to see it was essentially predicted in the analysis. I wonder what other stuff the new set will have for us?
EDIT: I just realized Tephraderm isn't Modern-legal, so I'll take it off the master list. There's a 4/5+ for 2RR anyhow.
No problem! I'm still in the phase of gathering data and checking it, then I'll try to do some data analysis myself too. It will require some time but I'm sure it's going to be worth it. In the meantime, I added green too, and that should end my list for now. There are still some parts I have to double check though. While working on green, by the way, I found another card you included that's not Modern legal: Panther Warriors. I remember I found a few more in the other colors too, but now I can't remember which cards they were.
Also, I'm not counting DTK spoilers for now. My list is limited to FRF. When DTK is fully spoiled in a few days, I'll do a pass through it to look for cards that change my list (and probably yours too).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Sounds good
Anyone else running some calculations of their own based on these ideas? Feel free to share anything you came up with. And keep checking for improvements to the master list please.
Adaptive Snapjaw (6/2+) can replace Panther Warriors (6/3) at 4G, to keep the master list restricted to modern legal designs. Doesn't look like that will change anything, but it's good to be accurate.
I've just completed my first draft of the "safe" analysis using the master list. These are creatures that could be safely printed as-is, without worrying they'll impact any format except limited, or obsoleting any good cards. In many cases, you'd have to boost their stats (or give them some keywords or other abilities) in order for them to be competitive.
I can't believe the amazing amount of helpful design threads there have been of late - the Lion's Lair, Remaking Magic, the Set Skeleton, NWO/red-flag, and now this!
(Did I forget one? I feel like I forgot one.)
My list is finally complete and double checked! You can see it in post #15 above. When the full spoiler for DTK comes out I'll check if there are any new additions, and after that I'll try to do some data analysis.
I can't believe the amazing amount of helpful design threads there have been of late - the Lion's Lair, Remaking Magic, the Set Skeleton, NWO/red-flag, and now this!
(Did I forget one? I feel like I forgot one.)
Thanks! Personally I'm only involved in this as a contributor, The Lion's Lair as author, and Remaking Magic as listener if you want to count that. There is also Astrolabe's wiki (I haven't checked it recently, I guess he went on with his project), but if there is some more I'm forgetting it too now...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
New spoiler today, black has a vanilla common - 3B for a 1/6. While strictly worse than the 2/6 on the same slot, I couldn't actually find what card you used for that reference - closest I can find is Rotted Hulk, a 2/5, meaning this would take a place on your list unless I missed something, which I probably did.
Thanks Legend! Glad you like it. It's still rough right now but I plan to keep working on it, as well as update it as required, so it stays a relevant tool for designers. All input is welcomed.
My list is finally complete and double checked! You can see it in post #15 above. When the full spoiler for DTK comes out I'll check if there are any new additions, and after that I'll try to do some data analysis.
Right on! I really appreciate your efforts so far, and look forward to read what you come up with for analysis. I'm going over your mono-colored data now, so far haven't found anything more to add to my master list, but your cataloging of some extended mana costs is helpful. I'm not venturing into multicolored creatures yet, so your data collection on that is valued.
New spoiler today, black has a vanilla common - 3B for a 1/6. While strictly worse than the 2/6 on the same slot, I couldn't actually find what card you used for that reference - closest I can find is Rotted Hulk
Thanks for letting me know about the 1/6 Zombie for 3B. I'll add that. FYI, 2/5 (Rotted Hulk) is on the master list, there's no 2/6.
What do you guys think about including mythics? These are the mythic creatures that would be on the master list: Indomitable Archangel, Baneslayer Angel, Sun Titan, Torrent Elemental, Grave Titan, Thundermaw Hellkite, Inferno Titan, Transcendent Master, and Ojutai Exemplars. Looking at each of them, none expand the boundaries of power and toughness for their mana cost all that much. The titans all bothered me a lot, but then I realized that even the worst creature colour now gets a 6/6+ for 4UU! And besides, shouldn't there be at least a few mythics on the master list, which has well over 120 creatures on it? The appearance of a few mythics shouldn't lead me to believe they're necessarily costed unfairly. Maybe a few are, but those could be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
I guess I'm leaning toward including mythics. But I'd like to hear other opinions.
I'm really thankful to silvercut for his response - it REALLY got me thinking! At first I wasn't sure about my original suggestion anymore. Yes, I wanted it to be good, but I'm not a fan of obsoleting strong cards that are already seeing play. So I had a look at what creatures had similar mana costs, stats, and abilities. Ezuri's Archers, Kalonian Tusker, Canopy Spider, and Sporecap Spider came to mind.
None of those cards are particularly "playable", although I considered them a reasonable place to start. Could bumping Canopy Spider's cost from 1G to GG justify another point of toughness and vigilance? Maybe. The Archers could be "modified" into Webwatch Spider by giving it +0/+2 and changing the pump ability to vigilance for the additional G.
Then I remembered Plated Seastrider, because it's so similar to the Spider in size and mana cost, except that it's in blue, Magic's weakest creature colour. Would green get the same creature with a couple keywords tacked on for no extra cost? Seemed that way.
At that point, I realized that I could probably close the case in favour of the 1/4 Spider. But I decided to expand on what I'd started, to see if more insights into the relationships between casting cost, power, and toughness might be found. I like to recognize nuances in data patterns. Sometimes a single point of toughness makes the difference between a creature being poor and being great. I enjoy using math and logic to solve puzzles. The question has evolved from "should Webwatch Spider have 3 toughness or 4?" to "what combinations of power and toughness are possible for any given mana cost?". And yes, I've been known to get into this kind of thing a few times before, including here in 2007, but this time I've decided to do it right. If it's not your thing, and for many amateur designers it won't be, that's okay. But I invite you to check it out, learn something, and contribute. This is by no means a completed project, and even when it is, it will need updating and more analysis as time goes by and more creatures are printed. You're welcome to use these data in any way you'd like - they're not my data! I've only collected, arranged, and partially analyzed them.
Ornithopter, Memnite
Keeper of the Lens
Spellskite, Gust-Skimmer
Myr Welder, Shimmer Myr, Spin Engine
Bladed Sentinel, Pierce Strider, Insatiable Souleater
Kuldotha Forgemaster, Stone Golem, Tangle Hulk
Scuttling Doom Engine
Lagonna-Band Trailblazer, Herald of Anafenza, Mardu Woe-Reaper
Concordia Pegasus, Veteran Armorer, Accorder Paladin
Veteran Armorsmith
Loxodon Wayfarer, Frontline Medic
Kami of Old Stone, Salt Road Patrol, High Sentinels of Arashin, Loxodon Convert
Indomitable Ancients, Hundred-Handed One, Indomitable Archangel
Nav Squad Commandos, Angel of Flight Alabaster
Old Ghastbark, Baneslayer Angel
Auriok Survivors, Requiem Angel
Deathless Angel, Sun Titan
Sidisi’s Faithful, Nivmagus Elemental
Dragon's Eye Savants, Omenspeaker, Azure Mage
Frostburn Weird, Coralhelm Commander
Deceiver Exarch, Captain of the Mists
Latch Seeker
Fortress Crab, Aerie Worshippers, Mistfire Adept
Scion of Glaciers, Water Servant, Argent Sphinx
Torrent Elemental, Air Servant
Prognostic Sphinx, Murder of Crows
Riverwheel Aerialists
Shipbreaker Kraken
Disowned Ancestor, Deathrite Shaman
Gnawing Zombie, Kolaghan Skirmisher
Undercity Informer, Grim Haruspex
Necroskitter, Blood-Chin Fanatic
Wandering Tombshell, Ukud Cobra, Viscera Dragger, Orc Sureshot, Rotting Fensnake
Liliana's Reaver
Rotting Mastodon, Rakshasa Gravecaller, Magus of the Coffers
Bloodgift Demon
Maze Abomination
Grave Titan
Flamekin Brawler, Monastery Swiftspear
Dragonlord's Servant, Young Pyromancer
Frostburn Weird, Ash Zealot, Mardu Scout
Kragma Butcher, Hardened Berserker, Regathan Firecat
Mindsparker
Felhide Spiritbinder, Vengeful Firebrand
Ember Swallower
Atarka Pummeler, Scoria Elemental
Thundermaw Hellkite
Titan of Eternal Fire, Maze Rusher
Inferno Titan
Treefolk Harbinger, Ezuri's Archers, Dryad Militant
Bosk Banneret, Bramblewood Paragon, Brushstrider
Kalonian Tusker
Sporecap Spider, Colossodon Yearling, Centaur Courser, Alpine Grizzly
Wolfir Avenger
Sultai Flayer, Cliffrunner Behemoth
Deadbridge Goliath
Jaddi Lifestrider, Pheres-Band Centaurs, Timber Protector, Adaptive Snapjaw
Arachnus Spinner, Segmented Krotiq
Hydra Broodmaster
You've probably already noticed some patterns in the master list. I'll explain how it was generated:
2) I only look at Modern legal cards from core sets and regular expansions, and exclude cards like Cathodion that were designed before rules changes (like "manaburn") boosted their playability. This ensures I don't include design decisions made long ago, for special sets like Commander, or under different rules.
3) I excluded creatures with anything that could be considered a drawback. That's subjective of course, but it isn't useful to get bogged down here. Abilities that give your opponent an option, or take away an option from you, are drawbacks. Extra costs are drawbacks. "Bad" keywords like defender, champion, and fading are drawbacks. Having extra card types like legendary or enchantment are drawbacks. I also consider infect, which can look like a bonus, to be a drawback. I like the motto "when in doubt, throw it out". How about Conundrum Sphinx? In the end, I decided it's ability (which is forced upon you) isn't a bonus in all (or even almost all) situations. Therefore, I can't conclude that Conundrum Sphinx proves 2UU should get a 4/4+. Dryad Militant's ability probably wouldn't be considered a drawback because you'd have to go out of your way to play it in a deck where the ability hurt you. But again, even though this point is subjective, the neverending debate about "strictly better" is for another thread! Once all creatures with drawbacks are discarded, only vanilla creatures and creatures with bonuses remain, which is what we want. For shorthand, I write Scathe Zombies as 2/2, and Phyrexian Ghoul as 2/2+.
4) The "value" of a point of toughness, in relation to the "value" of a point of power, is unknown and unknowable. In design, we can't freely convert power to toughness or toughness to power. Just because a 2B 1/6 is fair doesn't mean a 2B 6/1 is fair too. Power does seem to be "worth" more than toughness, but by how much differs between the colours, so power and toughness are different aspects of a card and are analyzed separately. (Great-Horn Krushok and Feral Krushok are an interesting example of this, and perhaps contain more clues about design than it seems.)
5) Mythics appear to follow a different pattern and are often +1/+1 bigger than creatures of the other 3 rarities. Cards like Indomitable Archangel, Baneslayer Angel, Sun Titan, Torrent Elemental, Grave Titan, Thundermaw Hellkite, Inferno Titan, Transcendent Master, and Ojutai Exemplars could be included in a different iteration of the master list, but I've chosen to leave mythics off this one. (It seems to me that mythics are allowed to break the rules for financial reasons, so I choose to leave them out of this strictly design discussion.)6) Now, the thousands of creatures in the game have been whittled down to a few hundred. All that's left is to identify the ones with the best stats at each mana cost. A 2/3 is better than a 2/2+ for the same cost, so we'd throw out the 2/2+. If a 2/3+ or a 2/4 got printed at the same cost, then it would knock the 2/3 off the list. Tie-breaking is subjective, but I look at creature types as well as the nature of the creature's abilities to decide which one makes it on the master list. Perhaps another version could list all of the tied creatures, but I don't find that necessary. Notice that out of all the creatures that cost
The creatures on the master list can then be arranged for further analysis like so:
Spikedog - 2G
Creature - Hound
When Spikedog enters the battlefield, put 2 +1/+1 counters on target creature.
1/1
... then I'd consider it a 3/3+ for 2G, and it would knock Centaur Courser off the list. Gatherer wouldn't have helped me find Spikedog though. Another area where I'm probably missing data is hybrid mana costs. so PLEASE rack your brains and suggest improvements! When the list is complete, the creatures on it reveal the relationship in Magic between cost and size. It doesn't tell us anything new, because it's just a collection of data arranged a certain way, but there are some pretty interesting insights coming out of it. While it's true we aren't constrained by all the same rules and guidelines that official (paid) designers are, it's still useful to analyze what they've already come up with, to glean what they consider to be the boundaries of design, and then make better decisions about our own (unofficial) design work.
Chinpuncher - 4
Artifact Creature - Golem
Whenever Chinpuncher deals damage to an opponent, you may untap it.
4/2
As I mentioned in the first post, when arranged in visual form, the data from the master list takes on non-random shapes. It isn't a coincidence that red's is shifted right and blue's left, or that green's is the widest, for example. Indeed, the shapes created by the data can give us the confines of that colour's creatures. Of course, exactly where the lines are drawn is up for interpretation, but it's possible to come to a pretty good estimation without much hassle. Here's my current version of the confines.
Shapes shifted to the right are good at creatures with high power. (Red and green are best, black is pretty good, white has great weenies but terrible fatties, and blue sucks.)
Shapes shifted to the left are good at creatures with high toughness. (Red is by far the worst of all the colours.)
The position of the top-right point of the polygon indicates how aggressive a creature's weenies are (white and green > red > black > blue) and the bottom-right point of the polygon indicates how aggressive a creature's fatties are (green and red > black > white and blue). Left is less aggressive and right is more.
Still working on what the positions of the other 2 points on the polygon indicate.
It's clear the shapes created by the data on the master list are unique to that colour, and are that shape for a reason. If you're not convinced, pull up the data in MSPaint and draw some lines yourself. I'd be very interested to see what other people come up with!
Of course, creatures outside the confines are still possible, but are increasingly less likely the further out of bounds they get. Check out Kami of Old Stone, sticking out on the "butt" side of white's confines. (And for fun, see where Force of Savagery would be.) The confines are more a guideline than an actual hard limit.
Now notice all the holes in each colour's shape! Some along the edges of the shape, and some embedded inside it. A hole doesn't always mean there's no creature with that particular power and mana cost in existence, it just means that if there is a creature at that power and mana cost, it doesn't have a high enough toughness to be worth mentioning on the master list. With the holes, each shape looks like a game of sudoku, needing some math and puzzle-solving skills to complete. As you'll see in the next post, we can fill in the holes to generate creatures that are automatically of an appropriate power level AND within the confines of that colour's range.
Stamp's Homeguard - WW
Creature - Human Knight
Whenever Stamp's Homeguard becomes blocked, untap it.
1/4
"Filling the holes"
Of course, while the creatures this method generates will be at a consistent power level and are within the colour's confines, not all of them are likely to see the light of day. For example, there's absolutely no reason, according to cards already in print (and common sense), that red can't have...
Human Hero - 1R
Creature - Human Warrior (C)
A hero is someone who gives it everything they've got, fighting for what's right until the end, whether they win or not.
2/2
... but I doubt they'll ever print it, if they haven't by now. Goblin Furrier alone is evidence enough. It's proven itself unplayable, and that has nothing to do with the "drawback". They just aren't going to print a 1R 2/2 without a drawback even though it would never be played - it is already obsoleted by all the powerful red weenies they've printed in recent years at R, RR, 2R, and 1RR. Perhaps the official/paid designers are stubborn, and they're abiding by an old rule never to print it? Maybe they think printing it now would be an obvious indication how far power creep has advanced? Who knows. And there are plenty of other holes that will probably never be filled, for various reasons. This method doesn't tell us what WILL be printed, but it does tell us what a creature's power and toughness might be if it WERE printed.
Here's my current worksheet of strong creatures, generated by filling in holes, adjusting numbers, analyzing patterns in total power plus toughness, comparing colours against each other, etc. It will change as I continue working on it, with feedback and input from others, and also as new creatures are printed.
The above creatures are meant to be on the strong side - my educated guess on the upper limit of a creature's stats. If printed as vanilla creatures, many of them would be playable in Standard and Casual formats. If printed with additional bonuses, some would become overly powerful, but others (mainly at higher mana costs) would be a good power level - playable in constructed decks across formats. Everybody will have their own interpretation of how to massage the data, and what to do with the results.
Some creatures on the worksheet already exist, including Phyrexian Walker, Memnite, Kraken Hatchling, Kalonian Tusker, and Indomitable Ancients. According to this method anyhow, these vanilla creatures are already "good enough". And that's true, they've all seen play. My aim for the creatures generated by the strong worksheet is they be of a similar caliber.
Cliffrunner Giant - 3G
Creature - Giant
5/5
Here is the above worksheet laid over the confines shapes. All the holes embedded in the shapes have been filled, and most of the ones along the edges have too.
In the next post, I'll go over some variations of "filling the holes".
Safe analysis worksheet:
Here, I'm also going to "flesh out" (with names and creature types) all 37 green creatures on the strong list from the above post, in vanilla form. That won't be necessary for all the colours, unless somebody is very bored.
Thanks for reading! Please post any and all suggestions, comments, and your own work too
3GG has an 8/8 upside creature (the 4/4 Soulbond guy from Avacyn Restored) - it's not always 8/8 but it usually is. Other cards to consider at that mana cost are the 'sorta like a 4/8 trample' Spectral Force, and the 'sorta like a 10/4 trample as it kills in 2 swings but dies to sorcery speed 4 damage spells' Kalonian Hydra.
Finally, a good number of the cards that are compared to are so weak that cards that are strictly* better would not be playable. For instance, no competitive deck would ever run a 3/13 vanilla creature for 2WW despite that being a strict* upgrade on the 2/10 creature. Wizards don't usually push vanilla creatures so the baselines are set pretty low - for instance, in many Standard formats, I do not believe a 3GG 10/10 trample would have been even considered remotely close to playable, and that's clearly pushed well beyond what is ever printed. Had that hypothetical card been in RTR, it would never have been maindecked in Standard and might have been sideboarded in for matchups that weren't against control or Olivia Voldaren.
* - I use the 'equivalent or better 99% of the time that you draw it' measure of strictly here.
I was talking Standard. A 3/13 for 2WW would be a ten cent rare unless it had Timmy demand, and a 10/10 trample for 3GG would have been unplayable in ISD-RTR Standard (although it would be pretty strong - maybe even worryingly so - in today's Standard).
Some multi color cards from the recent ravnica are
Maybe some of these will help
Major thanks to Traprootkami for the signature.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
GWU Rafiq
RWB Zurgo
WBG Ghave
WUB Oloro
WBR Kaalia (Archived)
My Blog, currently working on series about my custom set Cazia.
Steam Trades - I play Dota 2, CS:GO, TF2, and trade cards heavily. Add me if you like.
That's fine. I'm not intending to exclude Timmy - he's a player too, so if a card is playable to Timmy, it's playable. A 3/13 for 2WW would certainly see play, just not from the Spikes you're thinking about.
You're right though, there are some creature casting costs that are unplayable, even in Standard, no matter the power and toughness. 6 mana is a lot for a competitive creature outside limited. In some formats, like Vintage, anything over 3 is unlikely to see play for power and toughness alone. Like I said above, "plenty of the holes will probably never be filled, for various reasons" and "not all of them should see the light of day". If there's no power and toughness that would make a casting cost playable in a particular format, then of course this method won't churn out a playable creature at that cost. Impossible tasks are impossible. We know that in recent Standard, a 5/5+ for 2GG sees play, even when the + is fairly minor, even if the creature is legendary. But at 5 mana, and definitely at 6 mana, most Standard decks wouldn't want a creature for stats alone, unless maybe it was ridiculously big.
But for mana costs where no stats are big enough to make the creature playable in ANY format, I'm not going to leave a blank. I'm going to fill it in, according to cards of similar costs and sizes that have been printed. Also, nobody said the vanilla creatures generated by the data have to stay vanilla. Think of it as a shell, that is within the confines of what that cost can produce, and go from there. Maybe the boring vanilla 6/4 for 4R above could be adapted into the following:
Meadopia Assault Team - 4R
Creature - Human Knight
First strike, protection from white
6/3
No creature above 3 mana is played for combat in Vintage, so it will never see play there no matter what we do, and that's okay. Not every card has to be Vintage playable.
For sure! I haven't done analysis of CCC mana costs yet. But check out the "strong" green creatures I generated with the master list:
There's no 4/5, but it looks like if there was, it would cost slightly more than 1GG. Leatherback Baloth costs GGG. Looks good to me
Thanks man. Nivmagus Elemental (1/2+ for U) replaces Triton Shorethief. Deathrite Shaman (1/2+ for B) replaces Death Cultist. Frostburn Weird (1/4+ for UU and also RR) replaces Plated Seastrider and fills a hole in the red data. Frostburn Weird is the first creature to appear on the master list twice (it's better than anything else the blue side AND the red side have).
Some of those changes are significant enough to adjust the confines a bit, as well as my "strong" analysis. Thank you! I hope there are more we haven't remembered yet. Input gladly welcomed.
I'm going to scour your post in the CCCG forum for data I can use in my posts, this evening. Feel free to post any/all of it here too, the more on this topic we can get in one place, the better. I think it'll be a useful resource for designers.
Major thanks to Traprootkami for the signature.
Precedents:
Black: Diregraf Ghoul, Rakdos Cackler
Red: Rakdos Cackler, Zurgo, Kird Ape (2/3 moderate downside)
Green: Experiment One (usually a 2/2 attacker on turn 2), Sunblade Elf, Wild Nactyl
White: Isamaru, Loam Lion, Champion of the Parish
Now none of those are strictly equal to 2/2 for 1 (some - Cackler, Ghoul and Isamaru - are strictly worse), but all of these are very close to 2/2 for C.
On Polukranos, you mention that the card is 5/5 small upside. I used to think that, but now I disagree - Polukranos saw the most play when Master of Waves was a Standard powerhouse, and Polukranos trumps the Master hard. It also gives you a fringe out against a resolved Hornet Queen, trading with all 4 of the tokens if you have 9 mana, or 3 if you have 7, either way putting you at least a little bit back into the game. His upside is actually deceptively big.
Deadbridge Goliath also had a fairly big upside for a 4 mana 5/5 (4GG, exile the Goliath that died to a Supreme Verdict early: Target animated Mutavault becomes utterly insane until end of game) and it never saw play. The bar for 4 mana combat creatures is set very high. Desecration Demon (6/6 flying, modest drawback) and Phyrexian Obliterator (5/5, *insane* bonus) got there. Goliath did not.
Edit: Also it doesn't yet exist, but I feel a 4/4 trample for 1GG is very printable. Precedent: Loxodon Smiter.
As a contribution, copying and pasting my list from the other thread here, with red added. Green will come in the next days. Refer to the linked post to know how this list was obtained (I'll repeat here too as I finish it). I'll do any further updates right here rather than on the other thread from now on.
EDIT 3/10: added green. Monocolor blue, black, red, and green have been checked and I'm sure about them. The rest will be checked too as soon as possible.
EDIT 3/11: double checked the whole list, now the list is complete and accurate at the most of my possibilities. I made some changes, mainly due to the fact that my first searches didn't have the "legal in Modern" restriction. The whole list of changes is in the following spoiler:
- added Palisade Giant, Ruination Wurm, Watchwolf: I just missed them in my first pass.
- removed Wall of Denial, Nivix Cyclops (added Wee Dragonauts in its place), and Trestle Troll: I missed their defender drawback.
- removed Riptide Crab: not legal in Modern, added Azorius Æthermage, and Jhessian Balmgiver in its place.
- removed Sarcatog: not legal in Modern, added Blood Cultist, Rakdos Ickspitter, and Sanity Gnawers in its place.
- removed Lithatog: not legal in Modern, added Firewake Sliver in its place.
- removed Hunting Kavu and Giant Trap Door Spider: not legal in Modern, added Godtracker of Jund and Immerwolf in their place.
- removed Thaumatog: not legal in Modern, added Harmonic Sliver in its place.
- removed Anurid Brushhopper: not legal in Modern, added Centaur Healer, Chronicler of Heroes, and Dauntless Escort in its place.
- removed Ancient Spider: not legal in Modern, added Bronzebeak Moa, and Knight of New Alara in its place.
- removed Flowstone Charger: not legal in Modern, added Sunhome Enforcer in its place.
- removed the following cards that are not legal in Modern, and there's no Modern legal creature that can take their place:
Armored Guardian
Marsh Goblins
Lim-Dûl's Paladin
Sawback Manticore
Razorfin Hunter
Marchesa's Smuggler
Etherium-Horn Sorcerer
Spiritmonger
- removed the following cards that are not legal in Modern, but there are already other Modern legal creature with the same stats in the list:
Hibernation Sliver
Vodalian Zombie
Slinking Serpent
Acidic Sliver
Shivan Zombie
Blazing Specter
Discordant Spirit
Mountain Titan
Scarwood Goblins
Yavimaya Barbarian
Voracious Cobra
Rock Basilisk
Llanowar Knight
Victual Sliver
Radiant Essence
Charging Troll
Sabertooth Nishoba
Edgewalker
Magister of Worth
Llanowar Dead
Ebony Treefolk
Goblin Legionnaire
Wood Sage
Gaea's Skyfolk
Pygmy Hippo
Also, some due explanations on the procedure I used:
Each card in the list is supposed to be an answer to the question:
"Given an exact mana cost and an exact power, which is the card with the highest toughness among Modern-legal cards without drawbacks that have that mana cost and that power?"
In practice, all I did was translate that question into a Gatherer search that I then repeated for all different mana costs. I also set the search in such a way that it produced an output with the creatures ordered with ascending power. That allowed me to easily distinguish the different power values. Then, I looked through each group of creatures with that mana cost and power manually searching for the greatest toughness without any form of drawbacks. For the sake of simplicity, I had Gatherer exclude legendary creatures and creatures with defender (the two most common drawbacks) automatically. No restrictions on power and toughness were included in the search.
In summary, I was looking for cards that fit all the following criteria at the same time:
- Modern-legal
- Given exact mana cost
- Given exact power
- No drawbacks of any form. In a few specific cases, I included cards with potential drawbacks, explaining why I did right next to the card.
The mana cost was subject to the following criteria:
- Maximum converted mana cost 6
- No more than three colored mana cost (except for hybrids without generic mana, in which cases I arrived to five colored mana symbol to include the Demigod of Revenge cycle)
- For gold costs, only costs with one colored mana of each color have been included.
Finally, be aware that because of the way Gatherer works, there are the following exceptions:
- creatures with variable P/T or */* are not included
- creatures that enter the battlefield with a given number of +1/+1 counters are also not included
Further data analysis will follow in an unspecified time.
EDIT 3/14: List updated with cards from DTK (see post #31)
COLORLESS
0 0/2 Ornithopter *
0 1/1 Memnite
1 0/1 Signal Pest *
1 1/2 Keeper of the Lens
2 0/4 Spellskite
2 1/3 Painter's Servant *
2 2/1 Alpha Myr, Bronze Sable, Fang Skulkin, Gust-Skimmer, Phyrexian Revoker
3 0/3 Kiln Walker *
3 1/4 Myr Welder, Neurok Replica, Yotian Soldier
3 2/2 Adaptive Automaton, Alloy Myr, Assembly-Worker, Auriok Replica, Burnished Hart, Elf Replica, Etched Champion, Goblin Replica, Hoof Skulkin, Moriok Replica, Myr Galvanizer, Palladium Myr, Scuttlemutt, Shimmer Myr, Sliver Construct, Snapsail Glider, Stonework Puma, Thermal Navigator, Trespassing Souleater, Wingrattle Scarecrow
3 3/1 Nim Replica, Spin Engine, Vulshok Replica (Cathodion's ability was a drawback at the time of its printing because of mana burn)
4 0/4 Summoner's Egg *
4 1/5 Dancing Scimitar, Silent Arbiter *
4 2/4 Bladed Sentinel, Watchwing Scarecrow
4 3/3 Dodecapod, Dragonloft Idol, Dross Ripper, Peace Strider, Pierce Strider, Transguild Courier
4 4/1 Bronze Bombshell, Rusted Slasher *
4 5/1 Insatiable Souleater
5 0/1 Stuffy Doll *
5 1/1 Creepy Doll *
5 2/2 Clone Shell *
5 3/5 Kuldotha Forgemaster
5 4/4 Stone Golem
5 5/3 Tangle Hulk
5 6/2 Glass Golem
6 2/6 Arachnoid *
6 3/5 Auriok Siege Sled, Enatu Golem *
6 4/6 Street Sweeper
6 5/5 Steel Hellkite, Thopter Assembly
6 6/6 Scuttling Doom Engine, Soul of New Phyrexia, Wurmcoil Engine *
MONOCOLOR
W 0/4 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer, Yoked Ox
W 1/2 Favored Hoplite, Herald of Anafenza, Midnight Duelist, Nyxborn Shieldmate, Sanctuary Cat
W 2/1 Dragon Hunter, Elite Vanguard, Mardu Woe-Reaper, Savannah Lions, Soldier of the Pantheon
WW 1/1 Auriok Champion, Kazandu Blademaster, Phalanx Leader *
WW 2/3 Armored Warhorse, Veteran Armorsmith
WWW 2/2 Devout Lightcaster *
1W 0/5 Nyx-Fleece Ram *
1W 1/3 Arashin Cleric, Augur il-Vec, Concordia Pegasus, Jeskai Student, Kithkin Zealot, Leonin Den-Guard, Setessan Battle Priest, Starlight Invoker, Tallowisp, Territorial Roc
1W 2/2 Ajani's Pridemate, Benalish Cavalry, Boros Mastiff, Ethersworn Canonist, Fledgling Griffin, Glory Seeker, Herald of Dromoka, Hero of Iroas, Kami of Ancient Law, Keening Apparition, Kinsbaile Skirmisher, Kjeldoran Outrider, Knight of Cliffhaven, Knight of the Skyward Eye, Leonin Arbiter, Leonin Shikari, Leonin Squire, Master of Pearls, Moorland Inquisitor, Order of the Golden Cricket, Oreskos Sun Guide, Ronom Unicorn, Safehold Sentry, Seeker of the Way, Sentinel Sliver, Silverchase Fox, Silvercoat Lion, Soulfire Grand Master, Stonewise Fortifier, Sunspear Shikari, Syndic of Tithes, Thraben Heretic, Traveling Philosopher, Veteran Armorer, War Priest of Thune, Whitemane Lion
1W 3/1 Accorder Paladin, Blade of the Sixth Pride, Daring Skyjek, Dromoka Warrior, Oreskos Swiftclaw, Spirit of the Labirinth, Wandering Champion
2W 0/3 Hedron-Field Purist *
2W 1/5 Loxodon Wayfarer
2W 2/3 Abzan Falconer, Farbog Explorer, Graceblade Artisan, Harvestguard Alseids, Kabira Evangel, Kor Sanctifiers, Mardu Hordechief, Midnight Guard, Tethmos High Priest
2W 3/3 Frontline Medic *
3W 0/3 Dawnfluke *
3W 1/7 Kami of Old Stone
3W 2/5 Armory Guard, Leonin Abunas, Salt Road Patrol
3W 3/4 High Sentinels of Arashin, Restoration Angel
3W 4/2 Loxodon Convert
4W 0/4 Barrenton Medic *
4W 1/6 Guardian Lions *
4W 2/5 Ardent Militia, Bazaar Krovod, Ghost Tactician, Kami of Tattered Shoji, Spectral Gateguards, Totem-Guide Hartebeest *
4W 3/5 Great-Horn Krushok, Nav Squad Commandos, Siege Mastodon, Thraben Purebloods
4W 4/4 Angel of Flight Alabaster
5W 2/5 Jedit's Dragoons, Weathered Bodyguards *
5W 3/6 Maze Sentinel, War Behemoth *
5W 4/6 Auriok Survivors
5W 5/5 Chronosavant, Requiem Angel
1WW 0/2 Mesa Enchantress *
1WW 1/4 Order of Whiteclay, Sanctum Guardian *
1WW 2/3 Chapel Geist, Descendant of Kiyomaro, Sunspire Griffin *
1WW 3/3 Transcendent Master *
2WW 0/3 Magus of the Moat *
2WW 1/3 Steelshaper Apprentice *
2WW 2/10 Indomitable Ancients
2WW 3/5 Hundred-Handed One
2WW 4/4 Indomitable Archangel, Ojutai Exemplars *
3WW 1/4 Griffin Dreamfinder *
3WW 2/5 Kjeldoran Royal Guard *
3WW 3/5 Silent Artisan *
3WW 4/4 Archon of Justice, Battlegrace Angel, Celestial Archon, Lightwielder Paladin, Scion of Vitu-Ghazi, Serra Angel, Stonehewer Giant, Wandering Graybeard, World Queller *
3WW 5/5 Baneslayer Angel *
4WW 1/3 Evangel of Heliod *
4WW 2/7 Palisade Giant *
4WW 3/4 Oathsworn Giant, Paladin of Prahv *
4WW 4/6 Felidar Sovereign *
4WW 5/7 Deathless Angel
4WW 6/6 Soul of Theros, Sun Titan *
1WWW 3/3 Angel of Jubilation *
2WWW 3/3 Pentarch Paladin *
3WWW 4/4 Victory's Herald *
3WWW 5/5 Twilight Shepherd *
3WWW 6/6 Admonition Angel, Purity *
U 0/4 Kraken Hatchling,Sidisi's Faithful
U 1/2 Triton Shorethief
UU 1/4 Plated Seastrider
UU 2/2 Coralhelm Commander, Grimoire Thief, Lord of Atlantis, Lord of the Unreal, Master of the Pearl Trident, Tidebinder Mage
UUU 3/3 Shorecrasher Elemental
1U 0/6 Dragon's Eye Savants
1U 1/3 Augur of Bolas, Chief Engineer, Elusive Spellfist, Fathom Seer, Frilled Oculus, Halimar Excavator, Incursion Specialist, Lighthouse Chronologist, Lumengrid Warden, Maritime Guard, Meletis Astronomer, Omenspeaker, Renowned Weaponsmith, Research Assistant, Seacoast Drake
1U 2/1 Azure Mage, Battlefield Thaumaturge, Coral Eel, Coral Merfolk, Coral Trickster, Crosstown Courier, Deeptread Merrow, Deepwater Hypnotist, Ink Dissolver, Jhessian Lookout, Merfolk Observer, Riddlesmith, Sejiri Merfolk, Sky Weaver, Snapcaster Mage, Stratus Dancer, Void Stalker, Wetland Sambar
2U 0/1 Civilized Scholar, Frontline Sage *
2U 1/4 Deceiver Exarch, Galvanic Alchemist, Horned Turtle, River Kaijin, Updraft Elemental, Wavecrash Triton
2U 2/3 Aeronaut Tinkerer, Blind Phantasm, Captain of the Mists, Crackling Triton, Daring Thief, Jeskai Infiltrator, Jwari Scuttler, Meletis Charlatan, Nyxborn Triton, Sage's Row Denizen, Selhoff Occultist, Silumgar Spell-Eater, Watercourser
3U 1/6 Fortress Crab
3U 2/4 Aerie Worshippers, Amphin Cutthroat, Azure Drake, Gurmag Drowner, Opal Lake Gatekeepers, Scornful Æther-Lich, Triton Cavalry
3U 3/3 Giant Octopus, Kheru Spellsnatcher, Mistfire Adept, Profaner of the Dead, Thassa's Emissary, Voyager Drake
3U 4/2 Undead Alchemist *
4U 0/5 Talonrend *
4U 1/5 Scalpelexis *
4U 2/6 Thassa's Devourer *
4U 3/5 Torrent Elemental *
4U 4/4 Ethersworn Adjudicator *
5U 2/3 Ethereal Usher *
5U 3/5 Maze Glider *
5U 4/5 Benthic Giant, Glacial Stalker, Riverwheel Aerialists
1UU 0/1 Simic Manipulator *
1UU 1/4 Calcite Snapper *
1UU 2/3 Echo Mage, Shaper Parasite, Streambed Aquitects *
1UU 3/1 Horizon Drake, Latch Seeker
2UU 0/3 Giant Oyster *
2UU 1/5 Dream Prowler *
2UU 2/5 Scion of Glaciers
2UU 3/4 Water Servant
2UU 4/3 Argent Sphinx
3UU 1/3 Soul Seizer *
3UU 2/2 Aven Surveyor, Riftwing Cloudskate, Sphinx's Disciple *
3UU 3/5 Prognostic Sphinx, Sphinx of Lost Truths
3UU 4/4 Air Elemental, Djinn of Wishes, Lone Revenant, Master of Predicaments, Murder of Crows, Serra Sphinx, Whitewater Naiads
3UU 5/1 Mirror-Mad Phantasm *
4UU 1/1 Draining Whelk *
4UU 3/4 Skyline Predator *
4UU 4/6 Consecrated Sphinx *
4UU 5/6 Mahamoti Djinn, Sphinx of the Chimes, Thousand Winds *
4UU 6/6 Frost Titan, Shipbreaker Kraken, Soul of Ravnica
1UUU (none existing)
2UUU 2/3 Magus of the Future *
3UUU 3/2 Roil Elemental *
3UUU 6/6 Guile, Sphinx of Magosi *
B 0/4 Disowned Ancestor
B 1/1 Asphodel Wanderer, Bile Urchin, Cruel Sadist, Death Cultist, Deathgreeter, Demon's Herald, Disciple of the Vault, Drainpipe Vermin, Dreadwing, Facevaulter, Festering Goblin, Festering Newt, Fume Spitter, Ghost-Lit Stalker, Gnat Miser, Guul Draz Assassin, Guul Draz Vampire, Kederekt Parasite, Knucklebone Witch, Maggot Carrier, Mardu Shadowspear, Martyr of Bones, Merrow Bonegnawer, Mindlash Sliver, Mortician Beetle, Nezumi Shadow-Watcher, Pharika's Chosen, Plague Beetle, Plagued Rusalka, Prickly Boggart, Pulse Tracker, Quag Vampires, Rag Dealer, Ridged Kusite, Rimebound Dead, Ruthless Ripper, Shadow Alley Denizen, Shadow Guildmage, Shadowborn Apostle, Shambling Goblin, Smolder Initiate, Tenacious Dead, Thoughtpicker Witch, Thrull Parasite, Tormented Soul, Typhoid Rats, Viscera Seer, Zulaport Enforcer
BB 1/1 Dunerider Outlaw, Nether Traitor, Slith Bloodletter *
BB 2/2 Black Knight, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Hand of Cruelty, Kalastria Highborn, Scarblade Elite, Wicked Akuba, Withered Wretch *
BBB 2/2 Garza's Assassin *
1B 0/1 Blood Artist, Deathknell Kami, Glaze Fiend, Swamp Mosquito *
1B 1/3 Bane Alley Blackguard, Gnawing Zombie, Qarsi Sadist, Returned Reveler
1B 2/2 Battle Brawler, Blood-Chin Rager, Gutter Skulk, Kolaghan Skirmisher, Pain Seer, Tavern Swindler, Walking Corpse
1B 3/1 Oona's Prowler *
2B 0/2 Agadeem Occultist *
2B 1/4 Grim Guardian *
2B 2/3 Dead Reveler, Felhide Minotaur, Felhide Petrifier, Minister of Pain, Sibsig Icebreakers, Undead Minotaur, Undercity Informer, Witch's Familiar
2B 3/2 Barony Vampire, Grim Haruspex, Mardu Strike Leader, Moriok Reaver, Nirkana Cutthroat, Warpath Ghoul
3B 0/1 Nim Shrieker *
3B 1/6 Wandering Tombshell *
3B 2/5 Rotted Hulk, Ukud Cobra
3B 3/4 Fate Unraveler *
3B 4/2 Brain Gorgers, Giant Cockroach, Nether Horror, Orc Sureshot, Slum Reaper, Smoldering Butcher
3B 5/1 Dross Crocodile, Rotting Fensnake
4B 0/5 Mephitic Ooze *
4B 1/2 Bitterheart Witch, Chimney Imp *
4B 2/8 Rotting Mastodon
4B 3/6 Rakshasa Gravecaller *
4B 4/6 Doomwake Giant *
5B 2/4 Netherborn Phalanx *
5B 3/4 Thorntooth Witch, Undead Leotau *
5B 4/5 Maze Abomination
5B 5/3 Twisted Abomination *
1BB 1/4 Necroskitter
1BB 2/3 Vampire Nighthawk *
1BB 3/3 Blood-Chin Fanatic *
2BB 0/4 Perilous Shadow, Unliving Psychopath *
2BB 1/3 Disciple of Phenax *
2BB 2/3 Abyssal Specter, Faceless Butcher *
2BB 3/3 Bloodline Keeper, Eastern Paladin, Fleshwrither, Graveborn Muse, Howling Banshee, Sangromancer, Skinrender, Soul Snuffers, Western Paladin *
2BB 4/3 Liliana's Reaver, Mindslicer, Necrotic Ooze
3BB 2/5 Keepsake Gorgon *
3BB 3/5 Dread Slaver*
3BB 4/4 Malakir Bloodwitch, Morkrut Banshee, Phyrexian Plaguelord, Ravenous Demon, Sengir Nosferatu, Sengir Vampire *
3BB 5/4 Bloodgift Demon, Archfiend of Depravity
4BB 2/7 Pontiff of Blight *
4BB 3/4 Mephidross Vampire *
4BB 4/6 Marsh Hulk, Minotaur Abomination
4BB 5/5 Extractor Demon, Harvester of Souls
4BB 6/3 Corrupted Harvester
1BBB 1/3 Uncle Istvan *
1BBB 3/3 Vampire Nocturnus *
2BBB 5/4 Vengeful Pharaoh *
2BBB 6/3 Halo Hunter *
3BBB 5/5 Midnight Banshee *
3BBB 6/6 Dread, Reaper from the Abyss *
R 0/2 Flamekin Brawler
R 1/2 Monastery Swiftspear
RR 1/1 Pyre Charger, Slith Firewalker, Warren Instigator *
RR 2/2 Ash Zealot, Blood Knight, Dragon Whisperer, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Ember Hauler, Goblin Wardriver, Kargan Dragonlord, Stigma Lasher
RR 3/1 Mardu Scout
RRR (none existing)
1R 0/1 Dragon Hatchling *
1R 1/3 Dragonlord's Servant *
1R 2/1 Adder-Staff Boggart, Akki Raider, Akki Underling, Altac Bloodseeker, Arena Athlete, Ashmouth Hound, Canyon Wildcat, Crimson Mage, Crimson Muckwader, Embersmith, Emberwilde Augur, Firefist Striker, Generator Servant, Goblin Diplomats, Goblin Piker, Goblin Shortcutter, Goblin Skycutter, Gore-House Chainwalker, Hearth Kami, Highland Berserker, Hinterland Hermit, Humble Defector, Ire Shaman, Jeering Instigator, Kolaghan Aspirant, Kruin Striker, Leaping Master, Lightning Mauler, Oxidda Daredevil, Rage Weaver, Reckless Reveler, Satyr Rambler, Sigiled Skink, Skinbrand Goblin, Slavering Nulls, Soulbright Flamekin, Sunflare Shaman, Thick-Skinned Goblin, Tin Street Hooligan, Torch Fiend, Tunnel Ignus, War-Name Aspirant, Young Pyromancer
2R 0/6 Crater Elemental *
2R 1/3 Chandra's Spitfire, Sparkspitter, Stinkdrinker Daredevil *
2R 2/3 Flamespeaker Adept, Kragma Butcher, Pensive Minotaur, Riot Devils, Screamreach Brawler, Warmind Infantry
2R 3/2 Goblin Roughrider, Hardened Berserker, Sulfur Elemental
2R 4/1 Gore Swine, Regathan Firecat
3R 0/4 Ogre Menial *
3R 1/3 Duergar Cave-Guard *
3R 2/4 Ceaseless Searblades, Flame-Kin War Scout, Smelt-Ward Gatekeepers, Wildfire Emissary *
3R 3/4 Felhide Spiritbinder
3R 4/2 Fanatic of Mogis, Firewing Phoenix, Needlepeak Spider, Sabertooth Outrider, Shaman of the Great Hunt, Vaultbreaker *
3R 5/2 Bloodfire Enforcers, Cobblebrute, Vengeful Firebrand
4R 0/1 Fortune Thief *
4R 1/7 Valakut Fireboar *
4R 2/3 Sokenzan Spellblade *
4R 3/4 Giant Harbinger *
4R 4/5 Atarka Pummeler *
4R 5/2 Canyon Lurkers, Kranioceros *
4R 6/1 Raging Poltergeist, Scoria Elemental
5R 3/5 Defiant Ogre *
5R 4/4 Battering Sliver, Bloodshot Cyclops, Charmbreaker Devils, Earth Servant, Lunk Errant, Markov Warlord *
5R 5/6 Titan of Eternal Fire
5R 6/3 Maze Rusher
1RR 1/3 Goblin Artillery, Orcish Artillery, Prophetic Flamespeaker *
1RR 2/3 Koth's Courier, Rageblood Shaman *
1RR 3/3 Countryside Crusher *
2RR 1/3 Sandstone Warrior *
2RR 2/3 Dragon Whelp *
2RR 3/4 Goblin Razerunners, Stone Giant *
2RR 4/5 Ember Swallower
2RR 5/2 Cyclops of One-Eyed Pass *
3RR 2/2 Falkenrath Marauders, Outrage Shaman, Ronin Cliffrider, Siege-Gang Commander, Soul of Magma *
3RR 3/4 Greater Forgeling *
3RR 4/5 Arc-Slogger, Earth Elemental *
3RR 5/5 Thundermaw Hellkite *
4RR 3/4 Megatog *
4RR 4/5 Akoum Boulderfoot, Earthshaker *
4RR 5/5 Conquering Manticore, Flameblast Dragon, Hellkite Charger, Hoard-Smelter Dragon, Magus of the Arena, Shivan Dragon, Thunder Brute
4RR 6/6 Inferno Titan, Soul of Shandalar *
1RRR 4/4 Cyclops Gladiator, Obsidian Fireheart
2RRR 4/4 Kuldotha Phoenix, Scourge of Valkas
2RRR 7/2 Thunderblust
3RRR 4/4 Predator Dragon
3RRR 5/5 Moonveil Dragon, Mordant Dragon
3RRR 6/6 Hostility
G 0/3 Llanowar Augur, Treefolk Harbinger
G 1/2 Ezuri's Archers, Magus of the Candelabra, Norwood Ranger, Scattershot Archer, Wasteland Viper
GG 1/3 Juvenile Gloomwidow *
GG 2/3 Elvish Warrior, Nissa's Chosen, Scaleguard Sentinels *
GG 3/3 Kalonian Tusker
GGG 0/1 Unyaro Bees *
GGG 1/1 Predator Ooze *
GGG 4/5 Leatherback Baloth *
1G 0/2 Devoted Druid, Utopia Tree, Whisperer of the Wilds *
1G 1/3 Bosk Banneret, Canopy Spider, Spellwild Ouphe
1G 2/2 Ashcoat Bear, Atarka Beastbreaker, Beastbreaker of Bala Ged, Boreal Centaur, Bramblewood Paragon, Carapace Forger, Cylian Elf, Cylian Sunsinger, Darkthicket Wolf, Dawntreader Elk, Death-Hood Cobra, Disciple of the Old Ways, Drudge Beetle, Fauna Shaman, Flinthoof Boar, Gatstaf Shepherd, Gnarlid Pack, Grizzly Bears, Hamlet Captain, Heir of the Wilds, Humble Budoka, Kavu Predator, Kraul Warrior, Leafcrown Dryad, Loam Dweller, Nest Invader, Riftsweeper, Runeclaw Bear, Scavenging Ooze, Skylasher, Smoke Teller, Somberwald Dryad, Spinneret Sliver, Timberpack Wolf, Transluminant, Voracious Wurm, Wolf-Skull Shaman, Woodland Changeling
1G 3/1 Brushstrider, Temur Charger
2G 0/1 Somberwald Sage *
2G 1/5 Sporecap Spider
2G 2/4 Colossodon Yearling *
2G 3/3 Centaur Courser, Nessian Courser
2G 4/2 Alpine Grizzly
2G 8/0 Force of Savagery *
3G 1/5 Tangle Angler *
3G 2/4 Blightwidow, Bog-Strider Ash, Giant Spider, Graverobber Spider, Nullmage Shepherd, Ondu Giant, Ravenous Leucrocota, Sakura-Tribe Springcaller, Saruli Gatekeepers, Scab-Clan Charger, Towering Indrik *
3G 3/4 Karplusan Strider, Sultai Flayer
3G 4/3 Crowned Ceratok, Nettle Swine, Order of the Sacred Bell *
3G 5/3 Cliffrunner Behemoth
4G 0/3 Bramble Creeper *
4G 1/5 Steam Spitter *
4G 2/8 Jaddi Lifestrider
4G 3/7 Pheres-Band Centaurs
4G 4/6 Timber Protector
4G 5/4 Feral Krushok, Spined Wurm *
4G 6/2 Adaptive Snapjaw *
5G 3/6 Foxfire Oak *
5G 4/5 Quagnoth *
5G 5/7 Arachnus Spinner
5G 6/5 Segmented Krotiq *
1GG 0/2 Verduran Enchantress *
1GG 1/3 Ohran Viper *
1GG 2/4 Courser of Kruphix, Spitting Slug *
1GG 3/3 Deathmist Raptor, Gnarled Mass, Great Sable Stag, Trained Armodon, Witchstalker, Wolfir Avenger
1GG 4/2 Boon Satyr *
2GG 1/1 Lumberknot, Stone-Seeder Hierophant *
2GG 2/4 Circle of Elders, Penumbra Spider *
2GG 3/5 Leaf-Crowned Elder *
2GG 4/4 Brooding Saurian, Chameleon Colossus, Ezuri's Brigade, Obstinate Baloth, Rumbling Baloth, Sporesower Thallid, Wolfbriar Elemental *
2GG 5/5 Deadbridge Goliath
3GG 2/7 Silklash Spider *
3GG 3/6 Moss Monster *
3GG 4/6 Molder Slug *
3GG 5/5 Ant Queen, Hollowhenge Beast, Pine Walker, Silverback Ape, Stampeding Elk Herd *
4GG 3/4 Orbweaver Kumo, Spinebiter, Tangle Spider *
4GG 4/6 Fangren Pathcutter, Orchard Warden *
4GG 5/5 Durkwood Baloth, Humbler of Mortals, Nemesis of Mortals, Paleoloth, Rhox *
4GG 6/6 Primeval Titan, Rampaging Baloths, Soul of the Harvest, Soul of Zendikar *
4GG 7/7 Hydra Broodmaster, Vorstclaw
1GGG 4/2 Fangren Firstborn *
2GGG 5/4 Vorapede *
2GGG 6/6 Arbor Colossus *
3GGG 3/3 Nacatl War-Pride *
3GGG 6/6 Essence of the Wild, Kindercatch, Vigor *
3GGG 8/8 Terra Stomper *
GOLD
WU 1/3 Ethercaste Knight
WU 2/2 Azorius First-Wing, Battlewise Hoplite, Crystalline Sliver, Deputy of Acquittals, Galina's Knight, Meddling Mage, New Prahv Guildmage, Vedalken Outlander
1WU 1/1 Azorius Æthermage, Jhessian Balmgiver
1WU 2/3 Talon Trooper
1WU 3/1 Aven Mimeomancer, Lyev Skyknight
2WU 2/4 Council of the Absolute, Hussar Patrol
2WU 3/3 ,Esper Cormorants, Skymark Roc
3WU 1/5 Jelenn Sphinx
3WU 3/4 Glassdust Hulk
3WU 4/3 Sky Hussar
4WU 4/5 Sovereigns of Lost Alara
4WU 6/4 Pristine Skywise
UB 1/3 Dimir Infiltrator, Disciple of Deceit
UB 2/2 Duskmantle Guildmage, Zombie Outlander
1UB 0/3 Bane Alley Broker
1UB 1/3 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1UB 2/2 Dimir Cutpurse, Diregraf Captain, Lich Lord of Unx
2UB 0/1 Kathari Remnant
2UB 2/3 Blizzard Specter
2UB 3/3 Architects of Will
2UB 4/4 Duskmantle Seer
3UB 3/7 Nemesis of Reason
3UB 4/4 Havengul Lich, Necromaster Dragon
4UB 2/4 Jhessian Zombies
4UB 4/4 Dinrova Horror, Ruthless Deathfang
BR 2/2 Rix Maadi Guildmage, Ghostflame Sliver, Gobhobbler Rats, Goblin Outlander
BR 3/1 Goblin Deathraiders, Spike Jester
1BR 1/1 Blood Cultist, Rakdos Ickspitter, Sanity Gnawers
1BR 2/3 Ragemonger
1BR 3/2 Hellhole Flailer
2BR 2/2 Hellhole Rats
2BR 3/2 Singe-Mind Ogre
2BR 4/2 Carnage Gladiator
3BR 1/4 Master of Cruelties
3BR 2/3 Kragma Warcaller
3BR 3/3 Lightning Reaver, Rakdos Ragemutt
3BR 5/4 Boltwing Marauder
3BR 6/6 Underworld Cerberus
4BR 3/3 Deathbringer Thoctar
4BR 4/4 Swift Warkite
4BR 5/4 Carnival Hellsteed
4BR 6/4 Sire of Insanity
RG 1/1 Scab-Clan Mauler, Zhur-Taa Druid
RG 2/2 Nacatl Outlander, Rip-Clan Crasher, Skarrg Guildmage, Spined Sliver
1RG 1/1 Firewake Sliver
1RG 2/2 Godtracker of Jund, Immerwolf
1RG 3/4 Burning-Tree Shaman
2RG 2/2 Burning-Tree Bloodscale, Hellkite Hatchling, Huntmaster of the Fells
2RG 3/2 Bloodbraid Elf (banned in Modern, but still in a Modern legal set)
2RG 4/4 Ghor-Clan Rampager, Polis Crusher, Rhox Brute
3RG 3/4 Deadshot Minotaur
3RG 5/5 Gorger Wurm
3RG 6/4 Streetbreaker Wurm
4RG 4/5 Scab-Clan Giant
4RG 6/3 Valley Rannet
4RG 7/6 Ruination Wurm *
GW 1/5 Grizzled Leotau
GW 2/2 Knotvine Paladin, Qasali Pridemage, Steward of Valeron, Valeron Outlander, Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage, Voice of Resurgence
GW 3/3 Fleecemane Lion, Watchwolf
1GW 1/1 Harmonic Sliver
1GW 2/3 Qasali Ambusher
1GW 3/3 Centaur Healer, Chronicler of Heores, Dauntless Escort
1GW 4/4 Loxodon Smiter
2GW 2/2 Bronzebeak Moa, Knight of New Alara
2GW 3/3 Leonin Armorguard, Mystic Enforcer
2GW 4/4 Loxodon Hierarch
3GW 2/5 Selesnya Sagittars
3GW 4/6 Armored Wolf-Rider
4GW 4/5 Pale Recluse
4GW 5/5 Enlisted Wurm
WB 1/1 High Priest of Penance
WB 2/3 Chief of the Scale
WB 3/2 Chief of the Edge
1WB 0/2 Vectis Dominator
1WB 1/1 Orzhov Pontiff
1WB 2/2 Kingpin's Pet, Necrotic Sliver
2WB 2/2 Blind Hunter
3WB 1/3 Vizkopa Confessor
3WB 2/3 Agent of Masks
3WB 3/3 Maw of the Obzedat, Sentry of the Underworld
3WB 4/4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4WB 4/4 Treasury Thrull
UR 2/2 Goblin Electromancer, Nivix Guildmage
1UR 0/3 Izzet Staticaster
1UR 1/3 Wee Dragonauts
1UR 2/2 Frenetic Sliver
2UR 1/5 Fluxcharger
2UR 2/3 Stormchaser Chimera
3UR 2/3 Mercurial Chemister
3UR 3/5 Spellbound Dragon
3UR 4/4 Hypersonic Dragon, Skyclaw Thrash
4UR (none existing)
BG 2/2 Darkheart Sliver, Korozda Guildmage, Putrid Leech, Rakshasa Deathdealer
1BG 2/3 Nyx Weaver
1BG 3/3 Dreg Mangler
2BG 2/2 Sluiceway Scorpion, Woodwraith Strangler
2BG 4/5 Reaper of the Wilds
3BG 2/5 Korozda Gorgon
3BG 3/3 Marrow Chomper, Vulturous Zombie
3BG 4/3 Pharika's Mender
3BG 5/4 Golgari Rotwurm
RW 1/2 Akroan Hoplite, Boros Swiftblade
RW 2/2 Cautery Sliver, Cerodon Yearling, Sunhome Guildmage, Truefire Paladin
RW 3/2 Wojek Halberdiers
1RW 2/2 Skyknight Legionnaire, Viashino Firstblade
2RW 2/4 Sunhome Enforcer
2RW 3/3 Highspire Mantis, Firemane Avenger
3RW 3/3 Fortress Cyclops
3RW 5/3 Blaze Commando
4RW 4/4 Foundry Champion
4RW 5/5 Bull Cerodon
GU 1/1 Coiling Oracle, Vedalken Heretic
GU 2/2 Icefeather Aven, Jhessian Infiltrator, Kiora's Follower, Zameck Guildmage
1GU 0/4 Elusive Krasis
1GU 1/1 Winged Coatl
1GU 2/3 Biovisionary, Trygon Predator
1GU 3/1 Drakewing Krasis
2GU 1/1 Fathom Mage
2GU 2/4 Master Biomancer
2GU 3/3 Assault Zeppelid
3GU 2/3 Prophet of Kruphix
3GU 3/4 Sages of the Anima
4GU 6/6 Sagu Mauler
HYBRID
(W/U) 1/1 Judge's Familiar, Zealous Guardian
(W/U)(W/U) 2/2 Azorius Guildmage, Puresight Merrow
(W/U)(W/U)(W/U) (none existing)
(W/U)(W/U)(W/U)(W/U) (none existing)
(W/U)(W/U)(W/U)(W/U)(W/U) 4/4 Godhead of Awe
1(W/U) 1/1 Mistmeadow Witch
1(W/U) 2/1 Somnomancer
2(W/U) 1/3 Silkbind Faerie
2(W/U) 2/2 Thistledown Duo
3(W/U) (none existing)
4(W/U) 2/4 Glamer Spinners
5(W/U) (none existing)
1(W/U)(W/U) 2/2 Augury Adept, Vassal Soul
2(W/U)(W/U) 3/3 Barrenton Cragtreads
2(W/U)(W/U) 4/3 Swans of Bryn Argoll (not counting its ability as a drawback because you can deal damage to it to draw yourself)
3(W/U)(W/U) 3/5 Azor's Elocutors
4(W/U)(W/U) (none existing)
1(W/U)(W/U)(W/U) 1/3 Thistledown Liege
2(W/U)(W/U)(W/U) (none existing)
3(W/U)(W/U)(W/U) (none existing)
(U/B) (none existing)
(U/B)(U/B) 2/2 Dimir Guildmage
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) 2/3 Nightveil Specter
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) 3/2 Wasp Lancer
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) (none existing)
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) 4/4 Ghastlord of Fugue
1(U/B) 1/2 Lurking Informant
2(U/B) 2/1 Gravelgill Duo
3(U/B) 2/2 Merrow Grimeblotter
4(U/B) 3/3 Gravelgill Axeshark
5(U/B) (none existing)
1(U/B)(U/B) 1/2 Cemetery Puca
1(U/B)(U/B) 2/2 Deathcult Rogue
2(U/B)(U/B) 3/3 Wanderbrine Rootcutters
3(U/B)(U/B) (none existing)
4(U/B)(U/B) (none existing)
1(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) 2/3 Glen Elendra Liege
2(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) (none existing)
3(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) (none existing)
(B/R) 1/1 Manaforge Cinder, Rakdos Cackler
(B/R)(B/R) 2/2 Rakdos Guildmage
(B/R)(B/R)(B/R) (none existing)
(B/R)(B/R)(B/R)(B/R) (none existing)
(B/R)(B/R)(B/R)(B/R)(B/R) 5/4 Demigod of Revenge
1(B/R) 1/1 Emberstrike Duo, Sootstoke Kindler
1(B/R) 2/1 Spiteflame Witch
2(B/R) (none existing)
3(B/R) (none existing)
4(B/R) 3/3 Cultbrand Cinder
5(B/R) (none existing)
1(B/R)(B/R) 2/2 Fulminator Mage
2(B/R)(B/R) 2/2 Murderous Redcap
2(B/R)(B/R) 3/3 Sootwalkers
3(B/R)(B/R) 3/3 Kulrath Knight
4(B/R)(B/R) (none existing)
1(B/R)(B/R)(B/R) 4/1 Ashenmoor Liege
2(B/R)(B/R)(B/R) (none existing)
3(B/R)(B/R)(B/R) (none existing)
(R/G) 1/1 Scuzzback Scrapper, Wild Cantor
(R/G)(R/G) 2/2 Burning-Tree Emissary, Gruul Guildmage, Vexing Shusher
(R/G)(R/G)(R/G) 3/3 Boggart Ram-Gang
(R/G)(R/G)(R/G)(R/G) (none existing)
(R/G)(R/G)(R/G)(R/G)(R/G) 6/6 Deus of Calamity
1(R/G) (none existing)
2(R/G) 2/3 Tattermunge Duo
3(R/G) (none existing)
4(R/G) 5/2 Scuzzback Marauders
5(R/G) 5/5 Valleymaker
1(R/G)(R/G) (none existing)
2(R/G)(R/G) 3/3 Mudbrawler Raiders
2(R/G)(R/G) 4/1 Giant Solifuge
3(R/G)(R/G) (none existing)
4(R/G)(R/G) (none existing)
1(R/G)(R/G)(R/G) 3/4 Boartusk Liege
2(R/G)(R/G)(R/G) (none existing)
3(R/G)(R/G)(R/G) (none existing)
(G/W) 1/1 Elvish Hexhunter, Seedcradle Witch
(G/W) 2/1 Dryad Militant
(G/W)(G/W) 2/2 Selesnya Guildmage
(G/W)(G/W)(G/W) 3/4 Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
(G/W)(G/W)(G/W)(G/W) (none existing)
(G/W)(G/W)(G/W)(G/W)(G/W) 5/5 Oversoul of Dusk
1(G/W) 2/2 Safehold Elite
2(G/W) 2/2 Oracle of Nectars
2(G/W) 3/1 Centaur Safeguard
3(G/W) 2/4 Safehold Duo
4(G/W) (none existing)
5(G/W) (none existing)
1(G/W)(G/W) 3/2 Kitchen Finks
2(G/W)(G/W) 2/2 Heartmender
2(G/W)(G/W) 3/3 Raven's Run Dragoon
3(G/W)(G/W) 3/6 Old Ghastbark
4(G/W)(G/W) (none existing)
1(G/W)(G/W)(G/W) 4/4 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2(G/W)(G/W)(G/W) (none existing)
3(G/W)(G/W)(G/W) (none existing)
(W/B) 1/1 Nip Gwyllion
(W/B)(W/B) 2/2 Orzhov Guildmage
(W/B)(W/B)(W/B) 2/2 Restless Apparition
(W/B)(W/B)(W/B)(W/B) (none existing)
(W/B)(W/B)(W/B)(W/B)(W/B) 4/4 Divinity of Pride
1(W/B) 1/1 Mourning Thrull
1(W/B) 2/1 Nightsky Mimic
2(W/B) 2/2 Gwyllion Hedge-Mage
3(W/B) (none existing)
4(W/B) (none existing)
5(W/B) (none existing)
1(W/B)(W/B) 2/1 Stillmoon Cavalier
2(W/B)(W/B) 2/4 Harvest Gwyllion
3(W/B)(W/B) 2/2 Evershrike
4(W/B)(W/B) (none existing)
1(W/B)(W/B)(W/B) (none existing)
2(W/B)(W/B)(W/B) 3/4 Deathbringer Liege
3(W/B)(W/B)(W/B) (none existing)
(U/R) 1/2 Nivmagus Elemental
(U/R)(U/R) 1/4 Frostburn Weird
(U/R)(U/R) 2/2 Izzet Guildmage
(U/R)(U/R)(U/R) 2/4 Crag Puca
(U/R)(U/R)(U/R)(U/R) (none existing)
(U/R)(U/R)(U/R)(U/R)(U/R) 4/4 Dominus of Fealty
1(U/R) 2/1 Riverfall Mimic
2(U/R) 2/2 Noggle Hedge-Mage
3(U/R) (none existing)
4(U/R) (none existing)
5(U/R) (none existing)
1(U/R)(U/R) 2/2 Crackleburr, Noggle Bandit
2(U/R)(U/R) (none existing)
3(U/R)(U/R) (none existing)
4(U/R)(U/R) 4/4 Nucklavee
1(U/R)(U/R)(U/R) (none existing)
2(U/R)(U/R)(U/R) (none existing)
3(U/R)(U/R)(U/R) 4/4 Mindwrack Liege
(B/G) 1/2 Deathrite Shaman
(B/G)(B/G) 2/2 Golgari Guildmage
(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) 3/2 Stalker Hag
(B/G)(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) (none existing)
(B/G)(B/G)(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) (there would be Deity of Scars, but it enters the battlefield with -1/-1 counters, which is a drawback)
1(B/G) 2/1 Woodlurker Mimic
2(B/G) 1/1 Quillspike
2(B/G) 2/2 Hag Hedge-Mage, Rendclaw Trow
3(B/G) (none existing)
4(B/G) (none existing)
5(B/G) (none existing)
1(B/G)(B/G) (none existing)
2(B/G)(B/G) 2/2 Desecrator Hag
3(B/G)(B/G) 5/4 Golgari Longlegs
4(B/G)(B/G) (none existing)
1(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) 2/2 Creakwood Liege
2(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) (none existing)
3(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) 6/6 Gleancrawler
(R/W) 1/1 Boros Recruit, Duergar Assailant, Figure of Destiny
(R/W)(R/W) 2/2 Boros Guildmage
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) 3/3 Boros Reckoner
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) (none existing)
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) 3/4 Nobilis of War
1(R/W) 2/1 Battlegate Mimic
2(R/W) 1/2 Hobgoblin Dragoon
2(R/W) 2/2 Duergar Hedge-Mage
3(R/W) (none existing)
4(R/W) (none existing)
5(R/W) (none existing)
1(R/W)(R/W) (none existing)
2(R/W)(R/W) 3/3 Spitemare
3(R/W)(R/W) (none existing)
4(R/W)(R/W) (none existing)
1(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) (none existing)
2(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) 2/4 Balefire Liege
3(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) (none existing)
(G/U) 1/1 Slippery Bogle
(G/U)(G/U) 2/2 Simic Guildmage
(G/U)(G/U)(G/U) 2/2 Wistful Selkie
(G/U)(G/U)(G/U)(G/U) (none existing)
(G/U)(G/U)(G/U)(G/U)(G/U) (there would be Overbeing of Myth, but it has variable P/T)
1(G/U) 2/1 Groundling Pouncer, Shorecrasher Mimic
2(G/U) 2/2 Selkie Hedge-Mage
3(G/U) 2/3 Grazing Kelpie
4(G/U) (none existing)
5(G/U) (none existing)
1(G/U)(G/U) 1/3 Gilder Bairn
2(G/U)(G/U) (none existing)
3(G/U)(G/U) (none existing)
4(G/U)(G/U) 3/3 Trapjaw Kelpie
4(G/U)(G/U) 4/2 Merfolk of the Depths
1(G/U)(G/U)(G/U) (none existing)
2(G/U)(G/U)(G/U) 4/4 Murkfiend Liege
3(G/U)(G/U)(G/U) (none existing)
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I'm not really going by any ratios, but that's certainly another way the data could be analyzed. What I've done here so far is ask the question "what is the highest toughness a creature without drawbacks has, if it costs
Yeah. In my "strong" analysis, green and white both get 2/2 for 1. That's a taboo, and people are going to freak out about it, but that's how the numbers stack up. Of course, I'm not predicting such a card is going to see print. Just saying, 2 toughness is the correct amount for a 2-power creature costing G (or W). Looks like red gets a 2/1 for 1 (perhaps a Hound, as a nod to both Savannah Lions and Jackal Pup). After correcting Deathrite Shaman's absence from the master list (how could I forget it?!), I have to believe black should also get the 2/1 for 1 (if we're going for "strong", and I am). As for blue getting a 2/1 for 1, the numbers don't support that. For
I think Goliath did see some competitive play, but regardless, not much. You're right, the bar is high for 4 mana even in Standard. My "strong" analysis popped out a 5/6 for 2GG, but considering your points, I think if I wanted the creature Standard playable I'd also have to give it a little something-something. Haste or trample are too much, reach or vigilance would be okay. Something in that range anyhow. 6/3 for the same cost would probably also be fine, but that's on the verge of being outside the confines for green (top-heavy). Could still happen.
Ballistahead Wurm - 1GGG
Creature - Wurm (R)
6/6
At first glance, shockingly large. But it actually doesn't obsolete as much as you'd think, and obviously it's very vulnerable. If it's to be played, I wouldn't want it any smaller
That's strong indeed, but I do agree with you. I'd like to see it without a lot of Tribal upside (Treefolk, maybe also Warrior?) and likely at rare. It obsoletes a lot, but I agree with you that it could be done if you want it played. It doesn't feel too inappropriate to me but I imagine some people would have a negative reaction to the idea. 3/3 for GG is safe, so I think +1/+1 and trample for
Thanks again for that work, you've done so much! I'm going through it tonight and I'll keep updating the first posts as I go.
I've already come across Old Ghastbark (3WW 3/6), surprisingly good enough to get on the master list. Added.
And I just read about a new card coming in Dragons of Tarkir (spoiler warning......) which costs 1BB and is a 3/3+ Warrior. That's new, so it expands the master list. Nice to see it was essentially predicted in the analysis. I wonder what other stuff the new set will have for us?
EDIT: I just realized Tephraderm isn't Modern-legal, so I'll take it off the master list. There's a 4/5+ for 2RR anyhow.
EDIT2: Here's the updated master list. Please suggest more corrections.
Also, while I don't think this formula is terribly accurate, I think it might be a useful addition to this thread/discussion:
Creature Power-Level Formula
No problem! I'm still in the phase of gathering data and checking it, then I'll try to do some data analysis myself too. It will require some time but I'm sure it's going to be worth it. In the meantime, I added green too, and that should end my list for now. There are still some parts I have to double check though. While working on green, by the way, I found another card you included that's not Modern legal: Panther Warriors. I remember I found a few more in the other colors too, but now I can't remember which cards they were.
Also, I'm not counting DTK spoilers for now. My list is limited to FRF. When DTK is fully spoiled in a few days, I'll do a pass through it to look for cards that change my list (and probably yours too).
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Anyone else running some calculations of their own based on these ideas? Feel free to share anything you came up with. And keep checking for improvements to the master list please.
Adaptive Snapjaw (6/2+) can replace Panther Warriors (6/3) at 4G, to keep the master list restricted to modern legal designs. Doesn't look like that will change anything, but it's good to be accurate.
I've just completed my first draft of the "safe" analysis using the master list. These are creatures that could be safely printed as-is, without worrying they'll impact any format except limited, or obsoleting any good cards. In many cases, you'd have to boost their stats (or give them some keywords or other abilities) in order for them to be competitive.
I can't believe the amazing amount of helpful design threads there have been of late - the Lion's Lair, Remaking Magic, the Set Skeleton, NWO/red-flag, and now this!
(Did I forget one? I feel like I forgot one.)
Thanks! Personally I'm only involved in this as a contributor, The Lion's Lair as author, and Remaking Magic as listener if you want to count that. There is also Astrolabe's wiki (I haven't checked it recently, I guess he went on with his project), but if there is some more I'm forgetting it too now...
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Avant Block: Avant -- Stormfront
There is no 4 mana 2/6 in black.
( I can't get the URL to work because of the brackets )
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Thanks Legend! Glad you like it. It's still rough right now but I plan to keep working on it, as well as update it as required, so it stays a relevant tool for designers. All input is welcomed.
Right on! I really appreciate your efforts so far, and look forward to read what you come up with for analysis. I'm going over your mono-colored data now, so far haven't found anything more to add to my master list, but your cataloging of some extended mana costs is helpful. I'm not venturing into multicolored creatures yet, so your data collection on that is valued.
Thanks for letting me know about the 1/6 Zombie for 3B. I'll add that. FYI, 2/5 (Rotted Hulk) is on the master list, there's no 2/6.
What do you guys think about including mythics? These are the mythic creatures that would be on the master list: Indomitable Archangel, Baneslayer Angel, Sun Titan, Torrent Elemental, Grave Titan, Thundermaw Hellkite, Inferno Titan, Transcendent Master, and Ojutai Exemplars. Looking at each of them, none expand the boundaries of power and toughness for their mana cost all that much. The titans all bothered me a lot, but then I realized that even the worst creature colour now gets a 6/6+ for 4UU! And besides, shouldn't there be at least a few mythics on the master list, which has well over 120 creatures on it? The appearance of a few mythics shouldn't lead me to believe they're necessarily costed unfairly. Maybe a few are, but those could be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
I guess I'm leaning toward including mythics. But I'd like to hear other opinions.