I think it's time to finish off our discussion of the philosophies of the wedges with BGW (We have previously discussedRWU, GUB, WBR, and URG).
I'll use my preferred method for examining the wedges - asking what defines the two excluded colors, and what the wedge therefore opposes. So, what do Blue and Red alike stand for? They are the colors that most embrace change. Red welcomes change as an opportunity to experience, and Blue seeks to change, to improve, both the world and itself. They are creative. They are curious. They are adventurous.
BGW is none of these things. Green and White agree that everyone has their own proper place in the world. White and Black share a concern with power and hierarchy. Black and Green (see the discussion of RWU) understand how foolish idealism can be - trying to make the world a better place can lead only to disaster. Toghther, they create a conservative wedge, deeply opposed to change, which can only tear down the existing order, throwing everything BGW knows into disarray. The most important watchword for BGW is conservatism.
BGW's respect for the established order is likely to lead it to honor those who shaped that order - the revered ancestors. A BGW society will likely be an ancestor-worshiping one.
For a conservative, ancestor-worshipping society, medieval Europe provides a strong source of flavorful, world-building inspiration, but the Taoist, Confucian, and Shinto societies of East Asia are perhaps still more resonant.
And, of course, ancestor worship leads us to the greatest area of mechanical overlap between Black, Green, and White - the graveyard. Taking inspiration from that which has gone before, BGW relies heavily on the zone that mechanically represents that very concept.
What do you think? Care to share your thoughts on BGW philosophy, world-building, and mechanics?
I agree that BGW invokes Taoist philosophies for me. Pandaran and Loxodon would fit here. BGWcan be seen as Evil/Nature/Good. A Penumbra Wurm/Loyal Cathar combination of effects was something I had considered pioneering this wedge in my custom card designs.
I mostly agree here. However, I don't really think conservatism is the ideal reference point here. Black, and to a lesser extent green, are anything but conservative. Black and green are both hungry colors.
The way I see it, blue and red are the colors that most represent creativity. A world lacking that creativity might seem conservative on the surface, but I feel that's more a result of a lack of desire to change, not because of any desire to stay the same.
Each creature in a BGW could be like cells of a single predatory organism which somehow thrives on feeding on itself. I believe someone said something like that in another thread. Let me find it.
Green and White are the colours of life. Black and Green are the colours of death. White and Black are the colours of religion.
A world of BWG mana would be focused on purposefully manipulating life and death. The idea of an afterlife or reincarnation would be prevalent, or even the actual physical state of things. At the same time, the weak would give way to the strong (perhaps through tributes or consumption), satisfying Green and White's need for interdependence while reinforcing Black and Green's contrary ideals of personal triumph. Life would be a resource, but it would be a completely renewable one. Outsiders would be destroyed or forcibly converted (or both).
It'd be an inward consumptive vortex, forever feeding on itself and paradoxically growing as a result.
Mechanically, you'd be in for the long haul, grinding out resources and claiming victory once you reach critical mass.
Bolding is my doing.
At the very base, you're taking a world and stripping it of thought and emotion, leaving only instinct, a very warped sense of morality, and a desire to do whatever it takes to accomplish one's (largely primitive) goals.
Not only that, but a world without red or blue lacks the intelligence or creativity to advance technology, whether through architecture, magic, or warfare. This is a world of prehistoric means. The biggest buildings around are crude ziggurats at best. The best weaponry available are made of stone and bone. Spells are straightforward and to the point with no more than one effect. Humanoid tribes are intensely xenophobic yet strongly dependent on the other members of their tribe.
Being the three colors of the graveyard, I agree with the ancestor worship. Hell, maybe the ancestors are still around in spirit form. Do they serve as respected advisors or as tyrannical overlords? It probably depends on the tribe.
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I mostly agree here. However, I don't really think conservatism is the ideal reference point here. Black, and to a lesser extent green, are anything but conservative. Black and green are both hungry colors.
True, but not really important. Black's powerful ambition has two sides. Yes, Black is driven to achieve. However, it is also desperately afraid of losing what it already has. In other wedges, Black is more characterized by its drive, but in BGW, joined to the two colors most concerned with the interconnectedness of all things, it is more aware of what it has to lose, and is dominated by fear. Change could disrupt the order of the natural world and of society, which horrifies Green and White. That disruption could jeopardize the individual's place in that order, which horrifies Black.
The way I see it, blue and red are the colors that most represent creativity. A world lacking that creativity might seem conservative on the surface, but I feel that's more a result of a lack of desire to change, not because of any desire to stay the same.
Each creature in a BGW could be like cells of a single predatory organism which somehow thrives on feeding on itself. I believe someone said something like that in another thread. Let me find it.
Aha!
Bolding is my doing.
At the very base, you're taking a world and stripping it of thought and emotion, leaving only instinct, a very warped sense of morality, and a desire to do whatever it takes to accomplish one's (largely primitive) goals.
Not only that, but a world without red or blue lacks the intelligence or creativity to advance technology, whether through architecture, magic, or warfare. This is a world of prehistoric means. The biggest buildings around are crude ziggurats at best. The best weaponry available are made of stone and bone. Spells are straightforward and to the point with no more than one effect. Humanoid tribes are intensely xenophobic yet strongly dependent on the other members of their tribe.
Being the three colors of the graveyard, I agree with the ancestor worship. Hell, maybe the ancestors are still around in spirit form. Do they serve as respected advisors or as tyrannical overlords? It probably depends on the tribe.
I think you're making a mistake here. The Blue individual doesn't lack emotion, he simply isn't guided by it. I am not White, but that doesn't mean I have no sense of right and wrong. Rather, "What's the right thing to do?" is not the first question I ask when making a decision. Similarly, a BGW world will be governed by the impulses of the colors that make it up, but while making decisions based on reason and emotion would be alien to this world, thought and emotion would certainly not be.
The prehistoric world you describe is certainly Black and Green, but it looks more like Jund than BGW. The simple act of creating a social order, of indulging White's most basic impulses, advances you beyond that point.
It is a further mistake to think of a BGW world as defined by the reanimation theme that is MECHANICALLY important to the color combination. In magic (the general case, with a small "m"), thought comes first, then the effect on the world. What is the thought behind graveyard mechanics? Going back to the past. Retaining the wisdom of those who came before.
The treefolk of Lorwyn were BGW, but lacked any particular graveyard theme. They were trees, taking the long view, and distrustful of new, untried ideas. This is the core of BGW.
True, but not really important. Black's powerful ambition has two sides. Yes, Black is driven to achieve. However, it is also desperately afraid of losing what it already has. In other wedges, Black is more characterized by its drive, but in BGW, joined to the two colors most concerned with the interconnectedness of all things, it is more aware of what it has to lose, and is dominated by fear. Change could disrupt the order of the natural world and of society, which horrifies Green and White. That disruption could jeopardize the individual's place in that order, which horrifies Black.
Fair enough. I see where you're coming from here.
I think you're making a mistake here. The Blue individual doesn't lack emotion, he simply isn't guided by it. I am not White, but that doesn't mean I have no sense of right and wrong. Rather, "What's the right thing to do?" is not the first question I ask when making a decision. Similarly, a BGW world will be governed by the impulses of the colors that make it up, but while making decisions based on reason and emotion would be alien to this world, thought and emotion would certainly not be.
I may have misstated myself, but it wasn't my intent to imply that thought and emotion are entirely absent. Any creature will have those. I was simply saying that thought and emotion are removed as major driving forces. No one is doing things for the experience, the experience is a side effect of the doing.
The prehistoric world you describe is certainly Black and Green, but it looks more like Jund than BGW. The simple act of creating a social order, of indulging White's most basic impulses, advances you beyond that point.
I wasn't around for Alara, was Jund full of tribal systems? It always seemed like more of a "fend for yourself" kind of plane. I was more referencing the internal hierarchy of each tribe as the white positive note and the xenophobia as the white negative note. Those that are different than what white perceives as "right" are going to terrify it.
It is a further mistake to think of a BGW world as defined by the reanimation theme that is MECHANICALLY important to the color combination. In magic (the general case, with a small "m"), thought comes first, then the effect on the world. What is the thought behind graveyard mechanics? Going back to the past. Retaining the wisdom of those who came before.
The treefolk of Lorwyn were BGW, but lacked any particular graveyard theme. They were trees, taking the long view, and distrustful of new, untried ideas. This is the core of BGW.
I don't disagree here, but imagine a place where the dead remain active members of society (here in spiritual form). That same distrust of new ideas that the treefolk have can work just as well for ancestral spirits and, depending on the level of respect for those spirits, could potentially cause those spirits to cling to their previous leadership positions and attempt to forcefully impose themselves on the rest of the tribe. Mechanics CAN influence worldbuilding, and vice versa.
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I wasn't around for Alara, was Jund full of tribal systems? It always seemed like more of a "fend for yourself" kind of plane. I was more referencing the internal hierarchy of each tribe as the white positive note and the xenophobia as the white negative note. Those that are different than what white perceives as "right" are going to terrify it.
I guess I have two visceral gripes with the atavistic, tribal-oriented setting. One, achieving such a low level of centralization runs counter to the grandiose ambitions of both White and Black. Both colors seek to RULE. In a world in which these colors have a greater influence than normal, it feels like one should expect to see strong, centralized polities. Two, the desire to preserve the achievements of those that have come before feels less absurd when those who came before achieved something, though I suppose a primitive setting could make for a decent Aesop in that regard. To me, the feeling of a BGW setting should be of a society that has frozen itself in time, and too much primitivism risks drowning that out with a "back to the stone age" feel.
I don't disagree here, but imagine a place where the dead remain active members of society (here in spiritual form). That same distrust of new ideas that the treefolk have can work just as well for ancestral spirits and, depending on the level of respect for those spirits, could potentially cause those spirits to cling to their previous leadership positions and attempt to forcefully impose themselves on the rest of the tribe. Mechanics CAN influence worldbuilding, and vice versa.
Interesting... I'm envisioning something not unlike the elves of Aerenal in D&D's Eberron campaign setting as a more immediate alternative to more traditional forms of ancestor worship... something akin to the Orzhov's Ghost Council, but perhaps on a grander scale.
I guess my tastes run to top-down design. I have a certain distaste for designing an abstract card, and then trying to tack flavor onto it, and I feel even more strongly when it comes to building a world as a whole.
I guess I have two visceral gripes with the atavistic, tribal-oriented setting. One, achieving such a low level of centralization runs counter to the grandiose ambitions of both White and Black. Both colors seek to RULE. In a world in which these colors have a greater influence than normal, it feels like one should expect to see strong, centralized polities. Two, the desire to preserve the achievements of those that have come before feels less absurd when those who came before achieved something, though I suppose a primitive setting could make for a decent Aesop in that regard. To me, the feeling of a BGW setting should be of a society that has frozen itself in time, and too much primitivism risks drowning that out with a "back to the stone age" feel.
I get what you're saying, I just feel like such a society would never have gotten to the point of wanting to freeze themselves at a specific time period. You are right, though, that the "back to the stone age" setting would greatly overshadow any of the philosophical underpinnings for a general audience.
Interesting... I'm envisioning something not unlike the elves of Aerenal in D&D's Eberron campaign setting as a more immediate alternative to more traditional forms of ancestor worship... something akin to the Orzhov's Ghost Council, but perhaps on a grander scale.
The Undying Court is a magnificent example of BGW and I wish I'd had the foresight to use that example.
I guess my tastes run to top-down design. I have a certain distaste for designing an abstract card, and then trying to tack flavor onto it, and I feel even more strongly when it comes to building a world as a whole.
I prefer top-down design as well, but that doesn't mean that all bottom-up design has tacked-on flavor. Imagine, however remote a possibility (though Mark Rosewater recently made mention that such a mechanic is something he wouldn't mind), a mechanic that says "Effects that say "exile" don't exile this permanent." This seems to be a fairly flavor-sparse mechanic, basically just a permutation of indestructibility. However, when you start to think about why something would be unexileable, it can lead you to otherwise unconsidered areas of worldbuilding.
Perhaps there are creatures on this plane that are so intrinsically part of the plane that they cannot be physically divorced from it. Massive guardians of nature that can be deterred and destroyed, but never truly removed fits very well into green's wheelhouse. What other feats might these behemoths be capable of?
Or perhaps through study and experimentation, a cabal of mages has discovered how to reinforce mana bonds in creatures to nullify any transplanar magic that might be directed at them. Surely this is blue's cup of tea and a worthy intellectual goal. What else could arise from experimentation with the inborn amount of mana inside a creature?
What if, through dedication to a higher power, some select few mortals were granted but a fraction of that higher power's ability, chief among them the ability to deny any kind of transplanar shift away from the center of that being's power? This can fit logically in either white or black, as they're both the colors of religion. What other powers might these mortals have been granted?
You can find creative inspiration in the most unlikely of places. It's only when flavor is forced onto something (either because of time constraints, narrow vision, or plain old lack of creativity) that it feels tacked on. Obviously, WotC isn't always the best at this, but they have deadlines and bottom lines to consider. As casual custom card creators, we have the luxury to sit back and feel out a design or even put it on the shelf for weeks, months, or even years before coming back and looking at it with a fresh pair of eyes.
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A little off topic here, but WBG are the three best colors for life gain. If that is true, then how would
Megalife GainWBG
Sorcery (U)
Gain * life.
How much would * be? If Heroes's Reunion is pretty much unplayable and gains you 7 life, how much Megalife Gain would have to offer?
I would say 13-15, if not being unplayable is the goal. This would almost have to be a rare though because of the absurd amount it would slow down its limited format.
I'm not sure if the fungus angle is the best take on it. Sure, as of Time Spiral block, all three of those colors get spore counters, but I don't think they do the best job of representing what BGW is all about.
BGW is all about death. As a black-centered shard, this shouldn't come as a surprise. On Grixis, it was ever-present and inevitable, though occasionally twisted. In BGW land, though, it's the opposite: death is meaningless. Mechanically, the three colors are the masters of graveyard interaction. Green gets cards from your 'yard to your hand, White puts them straight onto the battlefield, and Black does both. Flavorfully, it's the same way. Green and black have mastery over the physical side of death, the cycle of growth and decay, while black and white have mastery over the spiritual side, the realm of the immortal soul. When you combine all three, you get a world where death still comes, but it never stays for long. Every (semi-) living thing there is, by some means or another, immortal.
Incidentally, this ties into what the shard is lacking. BGW is missing two colors, red and blue, and the tie between them is creativity. It makes sense that BGW would be lacking this; nothing new ever needs to be created, because nothing is ever used up. Everything can be recycled. This is great for the environment, but bad for society. It would be an incredibly stagnant place; there would be no great thinkers or revolutionaries, just drones going through the same motions they've gone through for countless thousands of years. The leaders of the place (they should be a group; BGW would want many to be ruled by many, but not too many), spirits or lich-kings of some sort, have probably ruled the place for eons, their power preserved in the same way as their lives. The introduction of the two missing colors could cause a major upheaval, bringing entropy into the picture after an eternity of inertia.
Looking at the conflict between the central color and its enemies, black is all about selfishness, while green and white are all about the needs of the many. These two conflicting mindsets would have to somehow reach a compromise. I suspect it'd end up resolving itself into some kind of hierarchical arrangement. Everyone is equal, but some people are more equal than others. You serve the needs of the group because it's in your best interest to do so. You help them out, you get a promotion. You take money out of the till, and Patrick Swayze knocks you down a few pegs (death isn't a big deal, so demotion is the closest thing). It wouldn't be perfect, of course, and at the higher rungs of the ladder it would get surprisingly cutthroat. At the top, of course, you have the rulers of the plane doing anything they have to to stay in power (they must stay in power, of course, it's for The Greater Good). Black and white bring religion to the table, so the entire power structure would probably be one big church. It wouldn't be quite as wheeling and dealing as Orzhov, but it'd still be plenty corrupt, mostly used to keep people in line. Opiate of the masses and all.
Mechanically, you have a lot to work with. If they have a keyword, it should have something to do with the graveyard (it's basically Odyssey Block: The Shard), but it should probably be limited to permanents (instants and sorceries are tied to red and blue, and they're too ephemeral to represent BGW) and it shouldn't exile anything (it's all about recycling; putting cards from your graveyard into your library would be fine, though). Basically, the exact opposite of Flashback (like how Unearth is mostly Flashback for creatures). A sacrifice theme would work too, since it combines black's "whatever it takes" attitude with green and white's whole deal with the group being more important than individuals. For creature types, you've got all sorts of undead to work with: zombies, skeletons, vampires, spirits, specters, shades, wraiths, even mummies (please say mummies!). Being undead probably wouldn't even be seen as a big deal. Maybe it's even a sign of status; the more dead you are, the more respect you get. Of course, you'd have other creatures with their own ways of living forever. Primeval treefolk, forever-regenerating trolls, and yes, maybe even ancient fungi. You could still have other living things, too. There's more than one way to resuscitate a skinned cat in BGW world, and some of them even put the skin back on! Anyway, you've gotta get clerics somewhere. There should be no shortage of clerics. Oh, and thrulls. Thrulls would be perfect. The ultimate recyclable creature.
Anyway, I agree that the BGW shard shouldn't be a primitive, prehistoric place. White and blue are the colors of civilization, and any shard with one or the other should at least have a semblance of it. In Naya and Grixis, it was mostly offset by the presence of red, but you don't have that excuse here. Of course, there's the question of how such a stagnant plane could ever develop technologically. Their technology could have originated from outside the plane, or if it's an actual shard like from Alara, the technology could have been around before it split off. There's no question how it's still around, though--on a BGW plane, everything would be endlessly preserved. If a building collapses, they can rebuild it exactly the way it was before. But they can't change it because they don't know how, and they don't care to learn. It'd certainly be cool and flavorful if their technology was visibly obsolete compared to other shards, like say they're still in the Middle Ages while RWU and URG are in the Renaissance (WRB would take its Middle Ages castles and reinforce the walls without making any other changes, and GUB's architecture would probably be bizarre and unrecognizable).
I'm just going to quote my post on this from the other topic, because I put a lot of effort into it and why did it die at two responses?
Anyway, I agree that the BGW shard shouldn't be a primitive, prehistoric place. White and blue are the colors of civilization, and any shard with one or the other should at least have a semblance of it. In Naya and Grixis, it was mostly offset by the presence of red, but you don't have that excuse here. Of course, there's the question of how such a stagnant plane could ever develop technologically. Their technology could have originated from outside the plane, or if it's an actual shard like from Alara, the technology could have been around before it split off. There's no question how it's still around, though--on a BGW plane, everything would be endlessly preserved. If a building collapses, they can rebuild it exactly the way it was before. But they can't change it because they don't know how, and they don't care to learn. It'd certainly be cool and flavorful if their technology was visibly obsolete compared to other shards, like say they're still in the Middle Ages while RWU and URG are in the Renaissance (WRB would take its Middle Ages castles and reinforce the walls without making any other changes, and GUB's architecture would probably be bizarre and unrecognizable).
Shoot, shame I didn't see that. Mummies gives me an idea I like, though. Ancient Egypt is another great flavor inspiration for BGW, and would keep things very primitive without feeling too "Land of the Lost"-y.
Shoot, shame I didn't see that. Mummies gives me an idea I like, though. Ancient Egypt is another great flavor inspiration for BGW, and would keep things very primitive without feeling too "Land of the Lost"-y.
I can totally get behind an Egyptian-themed plane. Even from a geographical standpoint you've got your deserts (Plains), oases (Forests-ish), and stagnant oases (Swamps). Not to mention that ancient Egyptian religion is a pretty fair shake at BGW; Animal-headed gods, judges of the dead, and Osiris was even mummified. I approve.
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I'll use my preferred method for examining the wedges - asking what defines the two excluded colors, and what the wedge therefore opposes. So, what do Blue and Red alike stand for? They are the colors that most embrace change. Red welcomes change as an opportunity to experience, and Blue seeks to change, to improve, both the world and itself. They are creative. They are curious. They are adventurous.
BGW is none of these things. Green and White agree that everyone has their own proper place in the world. White and Black share a concern with power and hierarchy. Black and Green (see the discussion of RWU) understand how foolish idealism can be - trying to make the world a better place can lead only to disaster. Toghther, they create a conservative wedge, deeply opposed to change, which can only tear down the existing order, throwing everything BGW knows into disarray. The most important watchword for BGW is conservatism.
Absolutely. I think BGW lacks in creation, innovation and progress. It's stagnant. It is incredibly adept in finding ways to preserve, reuse and recycle, but it is incapable of invention (not restricted to just gadgetry). As a result, it's very protective of what it has and very careful about not losing anything. It of course wants more (black is the driving force here), but it's much more aware that its losses may not be replaced and how that will not ultimately help it succeed.
True, but not really important. Black's powerful ambition has two sides. Yes, Black is driven to achieve. However, it is also desperately afraid of losing what it already has. In other wedges, Black is more characterized by its drive, but in BGW, joined to the two colors most concerned with the interconnectedness of all things, it is more aware of what it has to lose, and is dominated by fear. Change could disrupt the order of the natural world and of society, which horrifies Green and White. That disruption could jeopardize the individual's place in that order, which horrifies Black.
Absolutely.
I constructed my BGW world to be one where the ambition of black abused the natural cycle until it snapped, leaving most of the population unable to procreate. It was the very literal application of BGW's inability to create new things. The resulting world was stagnant and its people reliant on necromancy and GW's life magics to preserve the living and recycle the dead. Communities became withdrawn, no group willing to risk conflict and war when any large-scale battle would be detrimental to the longevity of the group. And the environment itself was drab and lifeless, the lack of color and light a reflection of the depressed state of life for BGW. Like Grixis, a BGW world is always flirting with its own end. But where Grixis took that like an exhilarating ride of reckless pride and progress to excess, BGW is simply dying a slow, painful death it's trying desperately to stall.
What about instead of reanimating or playing out of the graveyard, this wedge mechanically cares about what's there, as per the ancestor worship/mummies flavour?
I actually think Kamigawa's abundance of legendaries could work well.
Keyword X
This creature gains (flying, hexproof, +1/+1, whatever) as long as there are X or more Legendary creatures in your graveyard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I'll use my preferred method for examining the wedges - asking what defines the two excluded colors, and what the wedge therefore opposes. So, what do Blue and Red alike stand for? They are the colors that most embrace change. Red welcomes change as an opportunity to experience, and Blue seeks to change, to improve, both the world and itself. They are creative. They are curious. They are adventurous.
BGW is none of these things. Green and White agree that everyone has their own proper place in the world. White and Black share a concern with power and hierarchy. Black and Green (see the discussion of RWU) understand how foolish idealism can be - trying to make the world a better place can lead only to disaster. Toghther, they create a conservative wedge, deeply opposed to change, which can only tear down the existing order, throwing everything BGW knows into disarray. The most important watchword for BGW is conservatism.
BGW's respect for the established order is likely to lead it to honor those who shaped that order - the revered ancestors. A BGW society will likely be an ancestor-worshiping one.
For a conservative, ancestor-worshipping society, medieval Europe provides a strong source of flavorful, world-building inspiration, but the Taoist, Confucian, and Shinto societies of East Asia are perhaps still more resonant.
And, of course, ancestor worship leads us to the greatest area of mechanical overlap between Black, Green, and White - the graveyard. Taking inspiration from that which has gone before, BGW relies heavily on the zone that mechanically represents that very concept.
What do you think? Care to share your thoughts on BGW philosophy, world-building, and mechanics?
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
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The way I see it, blue and red are the colors that most represent creativity. A world lacking that creativity might seem conservative on the surface, but I feel that's more a result of a lack of desire to change, not because of any desire to stay the same.
Each creature in a BGW could be like cells of a single predatory organism which somehow thrives on feeding on itself. I believe someone said something like that in another thread. Let me find it.
Aha!
Bolding is my doing.
At the very base, you're taking a world and stripping it of thought and emotion, leaving only instinct, a very warped sense of morality, and a desire to do whatever it takes to accomplish one's (largely primitive) goals.
Not only that, but a world without red or blue lacks the intelligence or creativity to advance technology, whether through architecture, magic, or warfare. This is a world of prehistoric means. The biggest buildings around are crude ziggurats at best. The best weaponry available are made of stone and bone. Spells are straightforward and to the point with no more than one effect. Humanoid tribes are intensely xenophobic yet strongly dependent on the other members of their tribe.
Being the three colors of the graveyard, I agree with the ancestor worship. Hell, maybe the ancestors are still around in spirit form. Do they serve as respected advisors or as tyrannical overlords? It probably depends on the tribe.
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True, but not really important. Black's powerful ambition has two sides. Yes, Black is driven to achieve. However, it is also desperately afraid of losing what it already has. In other wedges, Black is more characterized by its drive, but in BGW, joined to the two colors most concerned with the interconnectedness of all things, it is more aware of what it has to lose, and is dominated by fear. Change could disrupt the order of the natural world and of society, which horrifies Green and White. That disruption could jeopardize the individual's place in that order, which horrifies Black.
I think you're making a mistake here. The Blue individual doesn't lack emotion, he simply isn't guided by it. I am not White, but that doesn't mean I have no sense of right and wrong. Rather, "What's the right thing to do?" is not the first question I ask when making a decision. Similarly, a BGW world will be governed by the impulses of the colors that make it up, but while making decisions based on reason and emotion would be alien to this world, thought and emotion would certainly not be.
The prehistoric world you describe is certainly Black and Green, but it looks more like Jund than BGW. The simple act of creating a social order, of indulging White's most basic impulses, advances you beyond that point.
It is a further mistake to think of a BGW world as defined by the reanimation theme that is MECHANICALLY important to the color combination. In magic (the general case, with a small "m"), thought comes first, then the effect on the world. What is the thought behind graveyard mechanics? Going back to the past. Retaining the wisdom of those who came before.
The treefolk of Lorwyn were BGW, but lacked any particular graveyard theme. They were trees, taking the long view, and distrustful of new, untried ideas. This is the core of BGW.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
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I guess I have two visceral gripes with the atavistic, tribal-oriented setting. One, achieving such a low level of centralization runs counter to the grandiose ambitions of both White and Black. Both colors seek to RULE. In a world in which these colors have a greater influence than normal, it feels like one should expect to see strong, centralized polities. Two, the desire to preserve the achievements of those that have come before feels less absurd when those who came before achieved something, though I suppose a primitive setting could make for a decent Aesop in that regard. To me, the feeling of a BGW setting should be of a society that has frozen itself in time, and too much primitivism risks drowning that out with a "back to the stone age" feel.
Interesting... I'm envisioning something not unlike the elves of Aerenal in D&D's Eberron campaign setting as a more immediate alternative to more traditional forms of ancestor worship... something akin to the Orzhov's Ghost Council, but perhaps on a grander scale.
I guess my tastes run to top-down design. I have a certain distaste for designing an abstract card, and then trying to tack flavor onto it, and I feel even more strongly when it comes to building a world as a whole.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
Perhaps there are creatures on this plane that are so intrinsically part of the plane that they cannot be physically divorced from it. Massive guardians of nature that can be deterred and destroyed, but never truly removed fits very well into green's wheelhouse. What other feats might these behemoths be capable of?
Or perhaps through study and experimentation, a cabal of mages has discovered how to reinforce mana bonds in creatures to nullify any transplanar magic that might be directed at them. Surely this is blue's cup of tea and a worthy intellectual goal. What else could arise from experimentation with the inborn amount of mana inside a creature?
What if, through dedication to a higher power, some select few mortals were granted but a fraction of that higher power's ability, chief among them the ability to deny any kind of transplanar shift away from the center of that being's power? This can fit logically in either white or black, as they're both the colors of religion. What other powers might these mortals have been granted?
You can find creative inspiration in the most unlikely of places. It's only when flavor is forced onto something (either because of time constraints, narrow vision, or plain old lack of creativity) that it feels tacked on. Obviously, WotC isn't always the best at this, but they have deadlines and bottom lines to consider. As casual custom card creators, we have the luxury to sit back and feel out a design or even put it on the shelf for weeks, months, or even years before coming back and looking at it with a fresh pair of eyes.
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I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
Megalife Gain WBG
Sorcery (U)
Gain * life.
How much would * be? If Heroes's Reunion is pretty much unplayable and gains you 7 life, how much Megalife Gain would have to offer?
I would say 13-15, if not being unplayable is the goal. This would almost have to be a rare though because of the absurd amount it would slow down its limited format.
Anyway, I agree that the BGW shard shouldn't be a primitive, prehistoric place. White and blue are the colors of civilization, and any shard with one or the other should at least have a semblance of it. In Naya and Grixis, it was mostly offset by the presence of red, but you don't have that excuse here. Of course, there's the question of how such a stagnant plane could ever develop technologically. Their technology could have originated from outside the plane, or if it's an actual shard like from Alara, the technology could have been around before it split off. There's no question how it's still around, though--on a BGW plane, everything would be endlessly preserved. If a building collapses, they can rebuild it exactly the way it was before. But they can't change it because they don't know how, and they don't care to learn. It'd certainly be cool and flavorful if their technology was visibly obsolete compared to other shards, like say they're still in the Middle Ages while RWU and URG are in the Renaissance (WRB would take its Middle Ages castles and reinforce the walls without making any other changes, and GUB's architecture would probably be bizarre and unrecognizable).
Shoot, shame I didn't see that. Mummies gives me an idea I like, though. Ancient Egypt is another great flavor inspiration for BGW, and would keep things very primitive without feeling too "Land of the Lost"-y.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
Plus, beer.
Glorious avatar and signature done by Rivenor at Miraculous Recovery Signatures.
***Former MCC Organizer***
Come join us! Show us your creative side.
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
Absolutely. I think BGW lacks in creation, innovation and progress. It's stagnant. It is incredibly adept in finding ways to preserve, reuse and recycle, but it is incapable of invention (not restricted to just gadgetry). As a result, it's very protective of what it has and very careful about not losing anything. It of course wants more (black is the driving force here), but it's much more aware that its losses may not be replaced and how that will not ultimately help it succeed.
Absolutely.
I constructed my BGW world to be one where the ambition of black abused the natural cycle until it snapped, leaving most of the population unable to procreate. It was the very literal application of BGW's inability to create new things. The resulting world was stagnant and its people reliant on necromancy and GW's life magics to preserve the living and recycle the dead. Communities became withdrawn, no group willing to risk conflict and war when any large-scale battle would be detrimental to the longevity of the group. And the environment itself was drab and lifeless, the lack of color and light a reflection of the depressed state of life for BGW. Like Grixis, a BGW world is always flirting with its own end. But where Grixis took that like an exhilarating ride of reckless pride and progress to excess, BGW is simply dying a slow, painful death it's trying desperately to stall.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I actually think Kamigawa's abundance of legendaries could work well.
Keyword X
This creature gains (flying, hexproof, +1/+1, whatever) as long as there are X or more Legendary creatures in your graveyard.