Foo_intherain's thread on RWU got me thinking about the philosophies of the "wedges" - combinations of a color and its two enemy colors. I continued the discussion with a thread examining GUB, and now, I'd like to continue the discussion with WBR.
WBR is one of the easiest wedges to design cards for. But what does it actually mean to be White, Black, and Red? White is strongly group oriented. Black and Red are... not. So, where does this color combination come together? To answer that question, I'll try the same technique that worked for me in the two prior wedge discussions - I'll look at the two colors that aren't included in WBR - Green and Blue - try to find the deep commonalities between them that can point us to what White, Black, and Red share.
Green and Blue are the colors most concerned with individual growth. For Green, "individual growth" means finding one's inborn, natural potential, while, for Blue, it means learning, making oneself into whatever one wishes to be. The two approaches, while superficially very different, have deep similarities.
Without a focus inward, on individual development, WBR focuses its energies outward. It is deeply concerned with how others act, and what they believe. It is deeply intolerant, unleashing White's mob mentality, Black's will to dominate, and Red's fury on those who don't see things its way. It is highly militant, exulting in the glory of battle against the enemy. WBR is the color combination of crusade and jihad, of imperialism, of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union alike.
What are your views on WBR? What kind of world would White, Black, and Red create without the influence of Green and Blue? What sorts of mechanics would such a world showcase?
Yeah, to me WBR can be an army - collective but insular and self-reliant, looking for glory and respect through passion and fervor. Destroy, burn and pillage, but only for the good of your kind.
A more esoterical version would be the wedge would simply be some sort of pantheon of Gods - no search for growth or knowledge, just one set of philosophies trying to prevail over the other.
Foo_intherain's thread on RWU got me thinking about the philosophies of the "wedges" - combinations of a color and its two enemy colors. I continued the discussion with a thread examining GUB, and now, I'd like to continue the discussion with WBR.
WBR is one of the easiest wedges to design cards for. But what does it actually mean to be White, Black, and Red? White is strongly group oriented. Black and Red are... not. So, where does this color combination come together? To answer that question, I'll try the same technique that worked for me in the two prior wedge discussions - I'll look at the two colors that aren't included in WBR - Green and Blue - try to find the deep commonalities between them that can point us to what White, Black, and Red share.
Green and Blue are the colors most concerned with individual growth. For Green, "individual growth" means finding one's inborn, natural potential, while, for Blue, it means learning, making oneself into whatever one wishes to be. The two approaches, while superficially very different, have deep similarities.
Without a focus inward, on individual development, WBR focuses its energies outward. It is deeply concerned with how others act, and what they believe. It is deeply intolerant, unleashing White's mob mentality, Black's will to dominate, and Red's fury on those who don't see things its way. It is highly militant, exulting in the glory of battle against the enemy. WBR is the color combination of crusade and jihad, of imperialism, of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union alike.
What are your views on WBR? What kind of world would White, Black, and Red create without the influence of Green and Blue? What sorts of mechanics would such a world showcase?
I think you've pretty much got it. Progress isn't in WBR's vocabulary. Glory, zealotry, victory, vengeance, ends justify the means, cult of personality, charisma, code of honor, crusade - these are terms WBR values. As you say, it's deeply concerned with how others act and what they believe and is the wedge most likely to make snap judgments about those unlike itself. Not only will it be merciless about seeking vengeance against those who trespass against it, it will also seek to destroy those that it feels will one day trespass against it. It doesn't take that chance. Consequences are also something WBR does not care about. As long as victory (I'd say 'its goals' here, but let's face it, WBR's only major goal is victory - all its other smaller goals just feed into that) is assured, the cost was worth it.
In terms of belief systems, it's both deeply devoted and entirely flaky. WBR believes hard in things, but is also easily led astray by new concepts. It tends to follow idols and not ideals, so particularly charismatic speakers tend to grab WBR's zeal and loyalty. In that respect, WBR is easily manipulated because it tends to not think things through to logical conclusions. It tends to drop things it used to hold dear in favor of new things that look good on paper.
Mechanically, WBR is very combat-oriented and any mechanic that focuses on the aggressive, no consequences side of combat will likely feel right at home in WBR.
I've thought about this for custom cards I've been doing. I basically imagined a a WBR world as a dystopian future, where the tyrannical empire controls its subjects through propaganda, fear mongering, and brutal punishment for disobedience. They are perpetually at war (or so they say) so as to keep the populace's spite in the right direction, i.e. away from those in charge and toward some external threat.
As for mechanics, I would imagine the mentality of "you're either with us or against us," punishing others for not having the "correct" qualities (colors? creature types?) while benefiting those who do.
These are the colors I play! I think a perfect way to describe these colors is from the RBW humans Deck in standard that I play in standard currently. Aggressive style with white and red creatures using Necromantic dark forces to get the edge with Falkenrath AristocratUnburial Rites and Angel of Glory's Rise.
The mentality of these colors I see is "Give your life for the cause and you will have earned back the breath of life"
Pretty much this. Imagine Dark Ages Europe, with all it's city states constantly at war with one another, vying for power, with little or no thought to advancement beyond personal gain. It's a world where a single life is worthy very little, so long as the established power continues to thrive. Armies clash on countless battlefields, preachers decry the heresies of their neighbours, and petty and spiteful dukes, counts and lords live above the teeming masses of peasantry, indulging in their own vices and playing politics with their rivals abroad and at home.
Because people are unwilling to let go of anything on this world. Even the White peasants and kings unwilling to let go of their little realms, little rules, little zones of security.
Soldiers fight for glory and kill for slight and whatnot. Every sellsword has a day in the limelight and is cut down the next. No one cares. Oh they tell stories, maybe. Everyone twists the story to the advantage of their own narrative. No one is accountable to any group they don't want to be (until they're dead for it). No one rises above any of this to inner greatness.
No imagination of the beyond.
And no fortitude for the Green precept that you can't control the outcome.
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In terms of belief systems, it's both deeply devoted and entirely flaky. WBR believes hard in things, but is also easily led astray by new concepts. It tends to follow idols and not ideals, so particularly charismatic speakers tend to grab WBR's zeal and loyalty. In that respect, WBR is easily manipulated because it tends to not think things through to logical conclusions. It tends to drop things it used to hold dear in favor of new things that look good on paper.
Wow. I wish I'd come up with that. Yes, the personality cult is perfect for WBR... a perfect merger of the individualism of Black and Red and the groupthink of White.
The landscape: in Alara, we saw that the missing two colours had impact on geography. The RWB-shard's panorama could be following: As white is the central colour, the area would be ruled by large plains or steppes, with cities and castles build atop mountains. In the vales of the mountains and other dells of the land would be swamps, working as safeholds for those who want to remain hidden
Pretty much this. Imagine Dark Ages Europe, with all it's city states constantly at war with one another, vying for power, with little or no thought to advancement beyond personal gain. It's a world where a single life is worthy very little, so long as the established power continues to thrive. Armies clash on countless battlefields, preachers decry the heresies of their neighbours, and petty and spiteful dukes, counts and lords live above the teeming masses of peasantry, indulging in their own vices and playing politics with their rivals abroad and at home.
Certainly flavorful concepts. Another possibility is a desert, with plains represented by vast tracts of sand, mountains by craggy highlands, and swamps by muddy oases. I find the implied Aesop of fanatical armies fighting over stretches of barren sand compelling.
If you're envisioning the world that has been constantly at war as little more than a barren husk with little to no resources left then the primary conflict between the factions could be over control of the last habitable and sustainable territories. And on the outermost verges there would be little but danger and death awaiting.
Mechanically, I think this Wedge is all about combat. The largest amount of crossover between all three colours involves some interaction with the combat step: in Black and Red, this is expressed by having creatures that can't block and creatures that must attack (respectively); in White, it's expressed by White cards that work on attacking, or are better when attacking. Therefor, to match the Wedge's thematic identity with an aggressive mechanic, it would be sensible if the mechanic hindered your opponent while gaining you an advantage, but I imagine in most cases just one or the other would be fine for terms of giving the mechanic some design space.
In effect, it could easily be a keyworded version of 'Whenever this creature deals combat damage to an opponent'. Landfall wasn't a huge design leap, but adding it to the cards it was on make them look better collectively, and the same principle can be applied here.
A few card ideas with this in mind:
Barren Specter 3BB
Creature- Specter (U)
Flying Plunder- Whenever Barren Specter deals combat damage to an opponent, that player discards a card.
4/4
Blood Raider 1R
Creature- Human Berserker (C) Plunder- Whenever Blood Raider deals combat damage to an opponent, add R to your mana pool at the beginning of your next main phase.
2/1
Extermination Angel3WBR
Creature- Angel (R)
Flying, haste Plunder- Whenever Extermination Angel deals combat damage to an opponent, destroy all other creatures.
4/4
If you're envisioning the world that has been constantly at war as little more than a barren husk with little to no resources left then the primary conflict between the factions could be over control of the last habitable and sustainable territories. And on the outermost verges there would be little but danger and death awaiting.
I was trying to come up with a response to this - I feel it's more compelling for the armies to be fighting over worthless sand than the last scraps - when my thoughts went off on a tangent. Why would armies of fanatics fight and die over worthless, barren land? Pride. WBR is fanatical, yes. It's intolerant, yes. But at the root of its fanaticism and intolerance is pride. It doesn't need to grow or learn, it's already better. I think the philosophical underpinning of WBR is pride.
I was trying to come up with a response to this - I feel it's more compelling for the armies to be fighting over worthless sand than the last scraps - when my thoughts went off on a tangent. Why would armies of fanatics fight and die over worthless, barren land? Pride. WBR is fanatical, yes. It's intolerant, yes. But at the root of its fanaticism and intolerance is pride. It doesn't need to grow or learn, it's already better. I think the philosophical underpinning of WBR is pride.
Pride is perfect. I had always envisioned Vegeta from the Dragonball series to be a WBR character. And pride would be the single word to describe him.
How does death figure into this plane's ecology? It it so permanent? Both white and black can return someone from the dead. Black's are more unpleasant and subservient. White's are more difficult but promise a full revival.
A world of constant war where nobody dies? It's like Valhalla. Or it's Hell. It all depends on whether or not you enjoy the fights that ensue.
Dragons, Angels, and Demons all on one plane. Pride does well to describe them. And boy, do they love to fight. The cycle of day and night could be fights between an Angel (day) a Demon (night) and a Dragon (sunset/rise) constantly at war.
Religion. That's very cult of personality isn't it? It's got the cult, it just needs the personality. The demon, dragon, and angel could each have their own worshipers and form a neverending conflict. Three sides allows for allegiances as well as betrayal.
Would subtle machinations required for politics set in? Why not just kill them (a few times)? They'll get the point then. Red wouldn't make for much subtlety. White would probably allow for tentative accords to form between two or more fiefdoms, but even then for the purpose of further battle.
How long could you keep fighting? You've died nine times now and white mana no longer works to keep you up, but you really want to stay up and fight. Make yourself into a lich. A battle lich. Fight forever and stitch yourself back up while the others await either scavengers, bandits, or worse, healers.
How does death figure into this plane's ecology? It it so permanent? Both white and black can return someone from the dead. Black's are more unpleasant and subservient. White's are more difficult but promise a full revival.
A world of constant war where nobody dies? It's like Valhalla. Or it's Hell. It all depends on whether or not you enjoy the fights that ensue.
The tertiary graveyard manipulation color is primary in WBR, and the primary graveyard manipulation color is secondary in the wedge. While such magic would not be unheard-of, it probably wouldn't be central to the world's identity. A fallen hero being resurrected would be a major event, and not all Black generals would be necromancers leading legions of zombies.
Dragons, Angels, and Demons all on one plane. Pride does well to describe them. And boy, do they love to fight. The cycle of day and night could be fights between an Angel (day) a Demon (night) and a Dragon (sunset/rise) constantly at war.
Religion. That's very cult of personality isn't it? It's got the cult, it just needs the personality. The demon, dragon, and angel could each have their own worshipers and form a neverending conflict. Three sides allows for allegiances as well as betrayal.
How does death figure into this plane's ecology? It it so permanent? Both white and black can return someone from the dead. Black's are more unpleasant and subservient. White's are more difficult but promise a full revival.
I figure Necromancy would be mostly employed in two forms: a) creating zombie/skeleton hordes to wage war, since they require less upkeep and resources to manage and b) using it to try to prolong the lives of those in power (much in the same manner as the Ghost Council of the Orzhov) to rule well into their unlives. Ultimately, graveyard based interactions would likely remain the territory of WBG, since all 3 of those colours care about the graveyard. As such, you would see WB graveyard shenaningans, but likely they would be coated in the flavour of that wedge, not this one.
I figure Necromancy would be mostly employed in two forms: a) creating zombie/skeleton hordes to wage war, since they require less upkeep and resources to manage and b) using it to try to prolong the lives of those in power (much in the same manner as the Ghost Council of the Orzhov) to rule well into their unlives. Ultimately, graveyard based interactions would likely remain the territory of WBG, since all 3 of those colours care about the graveyard. As such, you would see WB graveyard shenaningans, but likely they would be coated in the flavour of that wedge, not this one.
Or you could divide it mechanically by having one wedge focus more on regeneration and the other on actual retrieval from the graveyard.
WBR is one of the easiest wedges to design cards for. But what does it actually mean to be White, Black, and Red? White is strongly group oriented. Black and Red are... not. So, where does this color combination come together? To answer that question, I'll try the same technique that worked for me in the two prior wedge discussions - I'll look at the two colors that aren't included in WBR - Green and Blue - try to find the deep commonalities between them that can point us to what White, Black, and Red share.
Green and Blue are the colors most concerned with individual growth. For Green, "individual growth" means finding one's inborn, natural potential, while, for Blue, it means learning, making oneself into whatever one wishes to be. The two approaches, while superficially very different, have deep similarities.
Without a focus inward, on individual development, WBR focuses its energies outward. It is deeply concerned with how others act, and what they believe. It is deeply intolerant, unleashing White's mob mentality, Black's will to dominate, and Red's fury on those who don't see things its way. It is highly militant, exulting in the glory of battle against the enemy. WBR is the color combination of crusade and jihad, of imperialism, of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union alike.
What are your views on WBR? What kind of world would White, Black, and Red create without the influence of Green and Blue? What sorts of mechanics would such a world showcase?
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
A more esoterical version would be the wedge would simply be some sort of pantheon of Gods - no search for growth or knowledge, just one set of philosophies trying to prevail over the other.
I think you've pretty much got it. Progress isn't in WBR's vocabulary. Glory, zealotry, victory, vengeance, ends justify the means, cult of personality, charisma, code of honor, crusade - these are terms WBR values. As you say, it's deeply concerned with how others act and what they believe and is the wedge most likely to make snap judgments about those unlike itself. Not only will it be merciless about seeking vengeance against those who trespass against it, it will also seek to destroy those that it feels will one day trespass against it. It doesn't take that chance. Consequences are also something WBR does not care about. As long as victory (I'd say 'its goals' here, but let's face it, WBR's only major goal is victory - all its other smaller goals just feed into that) is assured, the cost was worth it.
In terms of belief systems, it's both deeply devoted and entirely flaky. WBR believes hard in things, but is also easily led astray by new concepts. It tends to follow idols and not ideals, so particularly charismatic speakers tend to grab WBR's zeal and loyalty. In that respect, WBR is easily manipulated because it tends to not think things through to logical conclusions. It tends to drop things it used to hold dear in favor of new things that look good on paper.
Mechanically, WBR is very combat-oriented and any mechanic that focuses on the aggressive, no consequences side of combat will likely feel right at home in WBR.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Baronies.
Extremely unfriendly weather year-round.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
As for mechanics, I would imagine the mentality of "you're either with us or against us," punishing others for not having the "correct" qualities (colors? creature types?) while benefiting those who do.
The mentality of these colors I see is "Give your life for the cause and you will have earned back the breath of life"
RUGCascadeVineRUG
All Formats
WBRBrozhovWBR
RI Bleed FlamesR
EDH
WBROros, The AvengerWBR
URNiv MizzetUR
RNorin, The waryR
Pretty much this. Imagine Dark Ages Europe, with all it's city states constantly at war with one another, vying for power, with little or no thought to advancement beyond personal gain. It's a world where a single life is worthy very little, so long as the established power continues to thrive. Armies clash on countless battlefields, preachers decry the heresies of their neighbours, and petty and spiteful dukes, counts and lords live above the teeming masses of peasantry, indulging in their own vices and playing politics with their rivals abroad and at home.
Soldiers fight for glory and kill for slight and whatnot. Every sellsword has a day in the limelight and is cut down the next. No one cares. Oh they tell stories, maybe. Everyone twists the story to the advantage of their own narrative. No one is accountable to any group they don't want to be (until they're dead for it). No one rises above any of this to inner greatness.
No imagination of the beyond.
And no fortitude for the Green precept that you can't control the outcome.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Wow. I wish I'd come up with that. Yes, the personality cult is perfect for WBR... a perfect merger of the individualism of Black and Red and the groupthink of White.
Certainly flavorful concepts. Another possibility is a desert, with plains represented by vast tracts of sand, mountains by craggy highlands, and swamps by muddy oases. I find the implied Aesop of fanatical armies fighting over stretches of barren sand compelling.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
Mechanically, I think this Wedge is all about combat. The largest amount of crossover between all three colours involves some interaction with the combat step: in Black and Red, this is expressed by having creatures that can't block and creatures that must attack (respectively); in White, it's expressed by White cards that work on attacking, or are better when attacking. Therefor, to match the Wedge's thematic identity with an aggressive mechanic, it would be sensible if the mechanic hindered your opponent while gaining you an advantage, but I imagine in most cases just one or the other would be fine for terms of giving the mechanic some design space.
In effect, it could easily be a keyworded version of 'Whenever this creature deals combat damage to an opponent'. Landfall wasn't a huge design leap, but adding it to the cards it was on make them look better collectively, and the same principle can be applied here.
A few card ideas with this in mind:
Barren Specter 3BB
Creature- Specter (U)
Flying
Plunder- Whenever Barren Specter deals combat damage to an opponent, that player discards a card.
4/4
Blood Raider 1R
Creature- Human Berserker (C)
Plunder- Whenever Blood Raider deals combat damage to an opponent, add R to your mana pool at the beginning of your next main phase.
2/1
Extermination Angel3WBR
Creature- Angel (R)
Flying, haste
Plunder- Whenever Extermination Angel deals combat damage to an opponent, destroy all other creatures.
4/4
I was trying to come up with a response to this - I feel it's more compelling for the armies to be fighting over worthless sand than the last scraps - when my thoughts went off on a tangent. Why would armies of fanatics fight and die over worthless, barren land? Pride. WBR is fanatical, yes. It's intolerant, yes. But at the root of its fanaticism and intolerance is pride. It doesn't need to grow or learn, it's already better. I think the philosophical underpinning of WBR is pride.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
Pride is perfect. I had always envisioned Vegeta from the Dragonball series to be a WBR character. And pride would be the single word to describe him.
Avalon: The Legend Begins :: Pirate Set :: Babel: The Æther Wars
Favorite Magic Card: Fowl Play
[Primer] [Barrin's Tome]: A Master Wizard's Spellbook.
A world of constant war where nobody dies? It's like Valhalla. Or it's Hell. It all depends on whether or not you enjoy the fights that ensue.
Dragons, Angels, and Demons all on one plane. Pride does well to describe them. And boy, do they love to fight. The cycle of day and night could be fights between an Angel (day) a Demon (night) and a Dragon (sunset/rise) constantly at war.
Religion. That's very cult of personality isn't it? It's got the cult, it just needs the personality. The demon, dragon, and angel could each have their own worshipers and form a neverending conflict. Three sides allows for allegiances as well as betrayal.
Would subtle machinations required for politics set in? Why not just kill them (a few times)? They'll get the point then. Red wouldn't make for much subtlety. White would probably allow for tentative accords to form between two or more fiefdoms, but even then for the purpose of further battle.
How long could you keep fighting? You've died nine times now and white mana no longer works to keep you up, but you really want to stay up and fight. Make yourself into a lich. A battle lich. Fight forever and stitch yourself back up while the others await either scavengers, bandits, or worse, healers.
Banner by Topher!
The tertiary graveyard manipulation color is primary in WBR, and the primary graveyard manipulation color is secondary in the wedge. While such magic would not be unheard-of, it probably wouldn't be central to the world's identity. A fallen hero being resurrected would be a major event, and not all Black generals would be necromancers leading legions of zombies.
Cool flavor! Would make for fun worldbuilding.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
I figure Necromancy would be mostly employed in two forms: a) creating zombie/skeleton hordes to wage war, since they require less upkeep and resources to manage and b) using it to try to prolong the lives of those in power (much in the same manner as the Ghost Council of the Orzhov) to rule well into their unlives. Ultimately, graveyard based interactions would likely remain the territory of WBG, since all 3 of those colours care about the graveyard. As such, you would see WB graveyard shenaningans, but likely they would be coated in the flavour of that wedge, not this one.
Or you could divide it mechanically by having one wedge focus more on regeneration and the other on actual retrieval from the graveyard.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains